Red-shirt TV channel suspended again

[pornprong]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

Khun General Prayuth isn't a convicted criminal,

Give it time, it is coming.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, pornprong said:

What universe are you in?

 

Which side in Thailand uses the military to "ensure their continuity in power":

 

Small hint... it ain't Thaksin.

(given that there is only two sides in this fight, even you could probably get the right answer from here.... then again, maybe not)

 

The same universe as you. Unless you've lost your grip on reality.

 

Having comprehension problems again? 

 

I'll try to make it more simple so even you can understand. I didn't say Thaksin had control of the military. I said his attempt at forming a para military enforcement arm failed because he couldn't get control of the military. Unlike his eternal friend over the border and others. 

 

I doubt your comprehension is the issue, although after your rest and resumption of excessive posting in defense of the Shins, it may well be. 

 

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Give it time, it is coming.

 

We shall see. In the meantime he's not a criminal. Unlike Thaksin............. 

[pornprong]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

We shall see. In the meantime he's not a criminal. Unlike Thaksin............. 

Oh, he's a criminal alright, unless you can show us the section of the previous constitution where coups are legal (not to mention the unexplained 600 million baht personal fortune or the 99 dead Reds from his 2010 massacre).

 

Why do you think he is so reluctant to give up power - he knows what's coming.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, pornprong said:

You seem to have omitted the role of the people in continually electing Thaksin to "enforce" their wishes for things such as universal health care, raising minimum wages and investing in rural infrastructure. There's not too many left who view Thaksin as worse than the Junta.... or am I entirely wrong, are you referring to Suthep?

"There's not too many left who view Thaksin as worse than the Junta" - based on what, your own delusions? 

 

You forgot to mention the lies, cheating, corruption and ignorance of the law and procedures that seems to plague and bring down Thaksin owned governments. 

 

How quick some voted into power are to break their oaths of office.

 

Being second worst, if that's the case, doesn't mean best!

 

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Oh, he's a criminal alright, unless you can show us the section of the previous constitution where coups are legal (not to mention the unexplained 600 million baht personal fortune or the 99 dead Reds from his 2010 massacre).

 

Why do you think he is so reluctant to give up power - he knows what's coming.

 

 

 

So when he's charged, prosecuted, convicted and sentenced you can call him a criminal. Until then, he ain't. 

 

But you at least agree Thaksin is.

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, pornprong said:

"democracy is false...just a word... nothing more"

 

Democracy is the great leveller - one person - one vote, under democracy everyone is an equal shareholder in the sovereignty of one's nation. To deny democracy is to refuse to acknowledge that we are all equal, all deserving of the same rights and freedoms and all have an equal right to participate in the governing of the nation. 

 

The violence being committed by the junta right now, may not be as visible as that of Suthep in 2013/2014 or the military in 2010, but it is just as oppressive and detrimental to the nation and its people. The current regime is a violent regime that rages against freedom in order to line its own  pockets.  

 

You are a cheerleader of the violent oppression of a people...it is not Peace Tv that should be shutdown - but you.

 

 

You seem to have forgotten the violence carried out by the Red Shirts and their Black Shirted friends in 2010 and then again in 2014.

 

Easy to forget the murder of children and then the applause and celebrations of such acts is it?

[pornprong]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

"There's not too many left who view Thaksin as worse than the Junta" - based on what, your own delusions? 

Based on the absence of junta huggers on TVF, Prayuth's absolute fear of elections, the burgeoning protest movement no longer afraid of the armed oppressors, Prem publicly stating Prayuth has lost support, the media ramping their anti-junta campaign and of course a little bit of common sense.

 

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

You forgot to mention the lies, cheating, corruption and ignorance of the law and procedures that seems to plague and bring down Thaksin owned governments. 

Lies, cheating, corruption and ignorance are par for the course for all Thai governments - what bought down elected government after elected government were armed treasonous coup-mongers backed by billionaires and thugs like Suthep

 

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

How quick some voted into power are to break their oaths of office.

Not as quick as those not voted into power break their oaths (and start buying Rolex's)

 

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

Being second worst, if that's the case, doesn't mean best!

But it does mean better than the worst.

How terribly weak is your argument - elected governments are only a little bit better than unelected ones.

Pathetic.

[pornprong]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So when he's charged, prosecuted, convicted and sentenced you can call him a criminal. Until then, he ain't. 

 

But you at least agree Thaksin is.

Thaksin obsessions don't cut it anymore.... you are one of the very last of a disappearing breed.

 

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yes. That's an interesting phenomenon with countries that have "Peoples' whatever" in their title - People's Republic, Peoples' socialist republic etc etc. They always have a strictly controlled military wing that takes over the armed forces and usually, some political police such as the NKVD, KGB (FSN?), Red Guards, Revolutionary Guards or whatever name they dream up. The Nazis had their SA and SS and the Italian fascists their black shirts.

 

Hun Sen and Maduro are both using the military and police in their respective countries to ensure their continuity in power.

 

Here it seems the Shin clan and factions attempt at creating their own para military force fell somewhat short. All the others managed to either get the backing of or neuter their military in addition to creating their own paramilitary force. 

 

 

Perhaps we should complete the analogy by at least a passing mention of the current regimes use of the military to initially achieve and now consolidate their power. After all it was a"military coup" which forestalled an entirely constitutional electoral process, perhaps because said process was liable to result in a government unpalatable to the military and their backers.

Purely in the interest of accuracy and completeness of course...

[baboon]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So when he's charged, prosecuted, convicted and sentenced you can call him a criminal. Until then, he ain't. 

 

But you at least agree Thaksin is.

Yes he is. He staged an illegal military coup. He is a ctiminal in the same way that drug smuggler who gets through by buying off officials is still a criminal.

Edited February 8, 2018 by baboon

[Baerboxer]

54 minutes ago, baboon said:

Yes he is. He staged an illegal military coup. He is a ctiminal in the same way that drug smuggler who gets through by buying off officials is still a criminal.

 

Not until he's convicted or legs it he's not. Are you suggesting he, and he alone, staged a military coup btw?

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Perhaps we should complete the analogy by at least a passing mention of the current regimes use of the military to initially achieve and now consolidate their power. After all it was a"military coup" which forestalled an entirely constitutional electoral process, perhaps because said process was liable to result in a government unpalatable to the military and their backers.

Purely in the interest of accuracy and completeness of course...

 

That is the difference I noted. Thaksin has failed to consolidate power because his attempt at creating his own private street army failed. In other countries, corrupt tin pot regimes manage to get elected and support democracy until it looks like the electorate have had enough a la Hun Sen, Maduro currently and plenty before them. Once they look like loosing power they use the military which they've gotten control of to by-pass democracy by dissolving the opposition, arresting opponents etc etc. 

Thaksin was never able to get control of the military and his private militia failed to intimidate the judiciary. As for the elections - hmmm. Where in the process did it say it was ok to attack, murder, threaten and intimidate people canvasing in certain parts of the country? 

Elections, like most things here, don't follow the rule of law. But the police don't do much about that; and the various NGO's aren't powerful enough.

 

But that's where we differ. You appear to believe any election is better than none. I believe a corrupt one is worse than none as the result can only bring those corrupt to power. Real reforms are needed, very fundamental ones. Otherwise, do the same thing and get the same results - gee, Einstein was right!

Edited February 8, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, pornprong said:

Thaksin obsessions don't cut it anymore.... you are one of the very last of a disappearing breed.

 

 

What is breed is that? One that sees through corrupt charlatans claiming they're as innocent as new born babes whilst spouting lie after lie?

 

This post is about a political propaganda TV channel owned by a criminal to promote his propaganda and broadcast his versions of whatever he wants them to. 

 

Of course, as they say, the greatest trick of the devil is to convince us he doesn't exist! And some are so easily fooled, aren't you.

[pornprong]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What is breed is that? One that sees through corrupt charlatans claiming they're as innocent as new born babes whilst spouting lie after lie?

 

This post is about a political propaganda TV channel owned by a criminal to promote his propaganda and broadcast his versions of whatever he wants them to. 

 

Of course, as they say, the greatest trick of the devil is to convince us he doesn't exist! And some are so easily fooled, aren't you.

Like I said, disappearing breed.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, pornprong said:

Based on the absence of junta huggers on TVF, Prayuth's absolute fear of elections, the burgeoning protest movement no longer afraid of the armed oppressors, Prem publicly stating Prayuth has lost support, the media ramping their anti-junta campaign and of course a little bit of common sense.

 

Lies, cheating, corruption and ignorance are par for the course for all Thai governments - what bought down elected government after elected government were armed treasonous coup-mongers backed by billionaires and thugs like Suthep

 

Not as quick as those not voted into power break their oaths (and start buying Rolex's)

 

But it does mean better than the worst.

How terribly weak is your argument - elected governments are only a little bit better than unelected ones.

Pathetic.

 

What's pathetic is your repeated attempts to whitewash the Shin faction. No one believes they're honest and no one knows how much they, or anyone before or after has plundered.

 

You have no idea who is worse, and neither do I or anyone else. But we do know they're all tarred with the same brush.

 

Every single Thaksin government, has been riddled with being caught out lying, cheating, fiddling and acting as if they're above the law. No learning curve they're then; buy your way in then make the job pay!

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

Like I said, disappearing breed.

 

Don't think so. 

 

Most posters know that there's little to choose between them. Only a few, very few want to pretend, like you.

[pornprong]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

What's pathetic is your repeated attempts to whitewash the Shin faction. No one believes they're honest and no one knows how much they, or anyone before or after has plundered.

 

You have no idea who is worse, and neither do I or anyone else. But we do know they're all tarred with the same brush.

 

Every single Thaksin government, has been riddled with being caught out lying, cheating, fiddling and acting as if they're above the law. No learning curve they're then; buy your way in then make the job pay!

All the Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin garbage has run its course, it's a nonsense no one is buying anymore. It is about the Junta. The Junta are the crooks, robbing the country to buy themselves rolexes. The Thai people want elections. Even the anti-Thaksin Thais want elections because they now realise everything is better than what they have now.

 

On the bright side, you'll be able to say you lived through the last ever coup in Thailand as you while away what remains of your your retirement years under a Thaksinite government. Enjoy.

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't think so. 

 

Most posters know that there's little to choose between them. Only a few, very few want to pretend, like you.

Oh blimey. BB talking about choice. Is there any? I do like your fantasy politics and all those imaginary militia. 

[pornprong]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't think so. 

 

Most posters know that there's little to choose between them. Only a few, very few want to pretend, like you.

No, most posters believe the choice belongs to the Thai people, it is their country, their lives and their future. Only a very few bitter old fascists are happy with living in a country oppressed by an unwanted and unelected armed minority... a dying breed indeed.

[baboon]

43 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not until he's convicted or legs it he's not. Are you suggesting he, and he alone, staged a military coup btw?

 

Yes he is. Or are you arguing in turn that if your house is burgled and the police don't catch the culprit, no crime has been committed? 

 

"General Prayut then told the meeting that "Sorry, I must seize power." "I" must seize power.

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Khun General Prayuth isn't a convicted criminal, nor does he have several serious outstanding charges waiting in the courts for his return. 

 

However the convicted criminal, and wanted by courts, owner of the Red Shirt Militia does. But of course you know that.

 

Just usual deflect quick and divert. 

 

And when history books are written of these times who do you think will be ranked the deeply flawed but inspirational leader who consistently won the support of ordinary Thais? And who will be ranked as a reactionary blowhard, illegally seizing power and serving the interests of a corrupt set of unelected elites?

 

[wakeupplease]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Khun General Prayuth isn't a convicted criminal, nor does he have several serious outstanding charges waiting in the courts for his return. 

 

However the convicted criminal, and wanted by courts, owner of the Red Shirt Militia does. But of course you know that.

 

Just usual deflect quick and divert. 

 

Not yet mate but it will come just give it time

[wakeupplease]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What's pathetic is your repeated attempts to whitewash the Shin faction. No one believes they're honest and no one knows how much they, or anyone before or after has plundered.

 

You have no idea who is worse, and neither do I or anyone else. But we do know they're all tarred with the same brush.

 

Every single Thaksin government, has been riddled with being caught out lying, cheating, fiddling and acting as if they're above the law. No learning curve they're then; buy your way in then make the job pay!

Sorry you have not been able to read the history of the other lot that started all the corruption in this neck of the woods Blind I guess?

[wakeupplease]

1 hour ago, pornprong said:

All the Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin garbage has run its course, it's a nonsense no one is buying anymore. It is about the Junta. The Junta are the crooks, robbing the country to buy themselves rolexes. The Thai people want elections. Even the anti-Thaksin Thais want elections because they now realise everything is better than what they have now.

 

On the bright side, you'll be able to say you lived through the last ever coup in Thailand as you while away what remains of your your retirement years under a Thaksinite government. Enjoy.

Last ever coup, we hope, but fear not, unless certain things get banished to other lands where they are just what they are nothing

[Eligius]

3 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

Sorry you have not been able to read the history of the other lot that started all the corruption in this neck of the woods Blind I guess?

Yes, the Thais are only allowed, on certain fundamental topics of their society, to hear one side of the argument (in their schools, universities, mainstream media, etc.). Just imagine that: ONE SIDE only is officially allowed! Truly, such a 'culture' is a veritable Alice in Lunatic Land!

[JAG]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That is the difference I noted. Thaksin has failed to consolidate power because his attempt at creating his own private street army failed. In other countries, corrupt tin pot regimes manage to get elected and support democracy until it looks like the electorate have had enough a la Hun Sen, Maduro currently and plenty before them. Once they look like loosing power they use the military which they've gotten control of to by-pass democracy by dissolving the opposition, arresting opponents etc etc. 

Thaksin was never able to get control of the military and his private militia failed to intimidate the judiciary. As for the elections - hmmm. Where in the process did it say it was ok to attack, murder, threaten and intimidate people canvasing in certain parts of the country? 

Elections, like most things here, don't follow the rule of law. But the police don't do much about that; and the various NGO's aren't powerful enough.

 

But that's where we differ. You appear to believe any election is better than none. I believe a corrupt one is worse than none as the result can only bring those corrupt to power. Real reforms are needed, very fundamental ones. Otherwise, do the same thing and get the same results - gee, Einstein was right!

You didn't really a address my criticism of your stance did you ? You continue to completely ignore the use of the military by the junta to seize and keep power.

 

You speak of violence, intimidation threats and murder during the election, all present, but far,far from the exclusive preserve of the "redshirt" faction. The boycott which halted the election was enforced by Sutheps thugs using exactly that, violence, intimidation and threats. His hired guns/guards or whatever you are pleased to call them were hardly averse to killing when they felt the need.

 

I do believe that an election, even a flawed one is better than no election (which infers an autocratic seizing of power - which is what happened); as long as the election result represents the  will of the people. The previous elections had been accepted, internationally and nationally as essentially free and fair. What leads you to suspect that the disrupted one was corrupt?

 

I agree with you that fundamental reform is needed. Where we differ is that I believe that it can only be achieved by an elected government, or rather by a succession of elected governments, you seem to believe that it is better achieved by a notoriously corrupt military, beholden to an avowedly anti democratic governing clique.

 

And yes, if I can paraphrase you "gee, Einstein was right" 19 or so coups rather prove that don't they?

 

Finally, on the subject of Einstein:

"A wonderful family the Steins,

There's Ep and there's Gurt and there's Ein,

Ep's statues are junk,

Gurt's poems are bunk,

And nobody understands Ein."

Edited February 8, 2018 by JAG

[brucec64]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So when he's charged, prosecuted, convicted and sentenced you can call him a criminal. Until then, he ain't. 

 

But you at least agree Thaksin is.

Ridiculous to make that statement when you know full well that Prayut hides behind self-granted amnesty. If he has done nothing wrong, then let him drop his amnesty and face the courts.