Factbox: Reactions to the death of U.S. evangelist Billy Graham

[webfact]

Factbox: Reactions to the death of U.S. evangelist Billy Graham

 

FILE PHOTO: Evangelist Billy Graham speaks during his Crusade at Flushing Meadows Park in New York, U.S. June 25, 2005. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Billy Graham became the best known preacher in the United States during 70 years in the pulpit. Following are reactions to his death on Wednesday.

 

"The GREAT Billy Graham is dead. There was nobody like him! He will be missed by Christians and all religions. A very special man."

- U.S. President Donald Trump on Twitter

 

"Billy Graham was a humble servant who prayed for so many - and who, with wisdom and grace, gave hope and guidance to generations of Americans."

- Former President Barack Obama in a tweet

 

"Billy Graham was a consequential leader. He had a powerful, captivating presence and a keen mind. He was full of kindness and grace. His love for Christ and his gentle soul helped open hearts to the Word, including mine."

- Former President George W. Bush, who said Graham inspired him to seek sobriety, in a statement

 

"Billy Graham was America's pastor ... I think Billy touched the hearts of not only Christians, but people of all faiths, because he was such a good man."

- Former President George H.W. Bush in a statement

 

"His powerful words and the conviction they carried touched countless hearts and minds ... I saw him live that faith fully in the constant kindness, encouragement, and counsel he extended to Hillary and me."

- Former President Bill Clinton in a statement on behalf of himself and wife, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who said Graham counseled her when her husband was involved in a White House sex scandal

 

"He shaped the spiritual lives of tens of millions of people worldwide. Broad-minded, forgiving and humble in his treatment of others, he exemplified the life of Jesus Christ by constantly reaching out for opportunities to serve. He had an enormous influence on my own spiritual life, and I was pleased to count Reverend Graham among my advisers and friends."

- Former President Jimmy Carter in a statement

 

"Billy Graham's ministry for the gospel of Jesus Christ and his matchless voice changed the lives of millions. We mourn his passing but I know with absolute certainty that today he heard those words, 'Well done good and faithful servant.' Thank you Billy Graham. God bless you."

- U.S. Vice President Mike Pence on Twitter

 

“As anyone growing up in the 1950s and 1960s can tell you, it was hard not to notice and be impressed by the Reverend Billy Graham. There was no question that the Dolans were a Catholic family, firm in our faith, but in our household there was always respect and admiration for Billy Graham and the work he was doing to bring people to God."

- Cardinal Timothy Dolan, archbishop of New York, in a statement

 

"Billy Graham has always been and will always be a hero in our home. Next to my own father, Reverend Graham was the most humble and gracious man I ever knew. I am honored to call him a friend and a mentor."

- Televangelist and "megachurch" pastor Joel Osteen on Twitter

 

"His kindly manner and unpretentious nature made him a trusted confidant to twelve U.S. presidents, reassuring generations of Americans that their leaders could count on this humble man of God for counsel and support."

- U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell in a statement

 

(Compiled by Bill Trott; Editing by Frances Kerry and James Dalgleish)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-22

[Boon Mee]

As President Trump said:  "Billy Graham was an American hero" 

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

As President Trump said:  "Billy Graham was an American hero" 

From George Will:

"On Feb. 1, 1972, unaware of Nixon’s Oval Office taping system, when Nixon ranted about how Jews “totally dominated” the media, Graham said, “This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country is going down the drain.” He also told Nixon that Jews are the ones “putting out the pornographic stuff.” One can reasonably acquit Graham of anti-Semitism only by convicting him of toadying."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/billy-graham-was-no-prophet-thats-why-america-loved-him/2018/02/21/398ce31a-1722-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?utm_term=.2eba52cd801e

 

A hero to sycophants everywhere.

[quandow]

Truly if ever there was a time to let sleeping dogs lie, this is it. RIP.

[kamahele]

Mixed feelings about Billy Graham who a counselor to many US presidents. However praised he will be in death he was no saint in my book. He had at one time claimed that AIDS was the judgement God, urged Nixon to use nuclear weapons in Vietnam, was caught on tape complaining to Nixon that Jews controlled the media, got fabulously wealthy through religion and he raised an abhorrent son. I hope that he saw the light and made his peace with God before his passing.

[Andaman Al]

He was a complete fraud. he was in it for the money and the power. Not sure why he is tolerated on here, he was an anti-semite and that normally ruffles many many feathers with people on this board.  We offer prayers, or as Graham would have it - we offer prayers from anyone who can just send 50 000 dollars, just two more donors needed.

[Dumbastheycome]

The  Master  Tutor  of a  deceitful  industry. 

[jaf3]

Proof that 'spiritual leaders' are just as flawed as anyone else. His spawn is even worse. Behind closed doors, when presumably 'god' wasn't listening he was just as crude and vile as the politicians he consorted with. 

[oobar]

I grew up reading Billy Graham's regular newspaper column.   He was one of the reasons I became an atheist. 

[F4UCorsair]

"Prayed for so many"??

Maybe "preyed on so many"?? The first big TV evangelist..... Are you lonely/sick/ etc., send $39.95 now and we'll pray for you.

Sure, he was no angel.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rascalman]

We all have lost a great man who can never be replaced, RIP!

[The Old Bull]

Good riddance

[attrayant]

Besides being a national clearinghouse for 'thoughts and prayers', did Graham actually do anything to relieve suffering or improve the world in any meaningful way?  No - he suckered a lot of people into making himself one of the richest televangelists in the country.

 

42 minutes ago, rascalman said:

We all have lost a great man who can never be replaced, RIP!

 

Are you joking? He can easily be replaced.  Here's a short list of who's waiting in line to sink their teeth into the flock he left behind:

 

8 Richest Pastors in America:

Kenneth Copeland: Net Worth $760 Million

Pat Robertson: Net Worth $100 Million

Benny Hinn: Net Worth $42 Million

Joel Osteen: Net Worth $40 Million

Creflo Dollar: Net Worth $27 Million

Billy Graham: Net Worth $25 Million

Rick Warren: Net Worth $25 Million

Joyce Meyer: Net Worth $8 Million

 

On the other hand, Norman Borlaug's contributions to society arguably saved a billion people from death by starvation, yet how many people would recognize his name?  We deify all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Andaman Al]

6 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

As President Trump said:  "Billy Graham was an American hero" 

 

American Hero:

 

 

Draft dodger and conman:

 

 

Draft dodger and conman who calls a draft dodger and conman an American Hero:

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Andaman Al

[Freed1948]

So now he will find that all he spouted was BS.

No he is just dead!

[MajarTheLion]

11 hours ago, attrayant said:

Besides being a national clearinghouse for 'thoughts and prayers', did Graham actually do anything to relieve suffering or improve the world in any meaningful way?  No - he suckered a lot of people into making himself one of the richest televangelists in the country.

 

 

Are you joking? He can easily be replaced.  Here's a short list of who's waiting in line to sink their teeth into the flock he left behind:

 

8 Richest Pastors in America:

Kenneth Copeland: Net Worth $760 Million

Pat Robertson: Net Worth $100 Million

Benny Hinn: Net Worth $42 Million

Joel Osteen: Net Worth $40 Million

Creflo Dollar: Net Worth $27 Million

Billy Graham: Net Worth $25 Million

Rick Warren: Net Worth $25 Million

Joyce Meyer: Net Worth $8 Million

 

On the other hand, Norman Borlaug's contributions to society arguably saved a billion people from death by starvation, yet how many people would recognize his name?  We deify all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons.

 

What's wrong with preachers becoming filthy rich? Have any of them in your list taken vows of poverty I haven't heard about. I detect a little jealousy and anti-Christian bigotry.

 

I guess I'm different from you. I don't begrudge others for working hard and becoming successful. Take Rick Warren, for example. He's a very successful author. Good for him. What is he supposed to do to escape your obvious hatred?

[canuckamuck]

11 minutes ago, MajarTheLion said:

What's wrong with preachers becoming filthy rich? Have any of them in your list taken vows of poverty I haven't heard about. I detect a little jealousy and anti-Christian bigotry.

 

I guess I'm different from you. I don't begrudge others for working hard and becoming successful. Take Rick Warren, for example. He's a very successful author. Good for him. What is he supposed to do to escape your obvious hatred?

A great deal of the wealth accumulated by popular preachers comes from the sale of their publications. If you get a reputation for having interesting or valuable things to say you can sell a lot of books. JK Rowling is past the $650 million mark writing for little kids about witchcraft. Her tremendous success is partially responsible for the millennial's obsession with the occult. Whereas the pastors being criticized are mainly teaching people how to escape depression, how to forgive, how to get your life in order, and of course teaching biblical values and history.

People spent their money because they provide a product in demand. It is just capitalism and free will. The reason people are angry is just anti Christian bias.

[canuckamuck]

18 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

From George Will:

"On Feb. 1, 1972, unaware of Nixon’s Oval Office taping system, when Nixon ranted about how Jews “totally dominated” the media, Graham said, “This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country is going down the drain.” He also told Nixon that Jews are the ones “putting out the pornographic stuff.” One can reasonably acquit Graham of anti-Semitism only by convicting him of toadying."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/billy-graham-was-no-prophet-thats-why-america-loved-him/2018/02/21/398ce31a-1722-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?utm_term=.2eba52cd801e

 

A hero to sycophants everywhere.

If by Jews he was referring to the globalist bankers controlling the deep state, then his comment remains to be true. If instead he meant all Jews, then of course that comment was antisemitic.  I am pretty sure he was talking about the Rothschilds and friends..

Edited February 23, 2018 by canuckamuck

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, MajarTheLion said:

What's wrong with preachers becoming filthy rich?

 

Because they use trickery and deceit to do it.  They prey on the vulnerabilities of the needy and desperate.  Those that preach the prosperity gospel assure their already poor flock that, if they can just scrape together enough money to send to the preacher, they'll see a hundredfold coming back to them.  They promise miracle cures for cancer-stricken children, if only the parents can show enough true love (small, unmarked bills preferred) to the church.  When they say these things, they are flat-out lying.  That's nothing short of disgusting and I can't believe you are defending this.  Your whole post is centered around the idea of "but just look at all the money they can make!!"  You almost seem envious.

 

Quote

I don't begrudge others for working hard and becoming successful.

 

You should if their tactics for becoming "successful" are as I outlined above.  James Randi exposed the deceit of the Popoff Minstries on the Tonight Show, and you should have seen how visibly upset and pissed-off Carson was to see this. Popoff went into hiding and declared bankruptcy after that.  Now he's back, bigger than ever and most likely doing the same things.  For just $30 you can be blessed with a small vial of magic water!  (Legal disclaimer: the water is free, but blessings won't be forthcoming until you perform a magic ritual at home and send in a check for $27, and then another one a few weeks later) 

 

Finally, you need to understand that this is all being done with the backing of some religious book that preaches exactly the opposite of what these snakes are doing.  

 

 

54 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

JK Rowling is past the $650 million mark writing for little kids about witchcraft.

 

Is she trying to dupe kids into believing that they can grow up to be witches if only they'll send her more money?  Do Stan Lee's readers not understand the difference between Spider-Man and reality?

 

54 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The reason people are angry is just anti Christian bias.

 

No, the reason I'm angry is because of all the fraud.  And there's no need to couch your words in PC language.  I am strongly opposed to all forms of magical thinking, especially when it's used to defraud the poor and sick.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by attrayant

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Because they use trickery and deceit to do it.  They prey on the vulnerabilities of the needy and desperate.  Those that preach the prosperity gospel assure their already poor flock that, if they can just scrape together enough money to send to the preacher, they'll see a hundredfold coming back to them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like the Thai version of Buddhism.

 

 

Tamboon for a better life now  -  and the next one.

[attrayant]

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Sounds like the Thai version of Buddhism.  Tamboon for a better life now  -  and the next one.

 

It's a successful business model; no surprise it's been copied all over the world resulting in hundreds of different religions and thousands of different deities.  L. Ron Hubbard said it best: 

 

"If you want to get rich, you start a religion."

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by attrayant

[canuckamuck]

5 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Finally, you need to understand that this is all being done with the backing of some religious book that preaches exactly the opposite of what these snakes are doing.  

Exactly, the Bible is against it so people need to use discretion. Lot's of people have been exposed but then again many pastors survive the intense scrutiny because they stick to Biblical ethics.

There are just as many charlatans selling magic crystals, reading fortunes,  investment opportunities or miracle cures.

 

14 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Is she trying to dupe kids into believing that they can grow up to be witches if only they'll send her more money?  Do Stan Lee's readers not understand the difference between Spider-Man and reality?

A couple of strawmen here.

JK Rowling is selling books, the send me money angle is something you are trying to inject into the conversation.

I do not know what Stan Lee's reader's grasp on reality is, does it matter?

 

18 minutes ago, attrayant said:

No, the reason I'm angry is because of all the fraud.  And there's no need to couch your words in PC language.  I am strongly opposed to all forms of magical thinking, especially when it's used to defraud the poor and sick.

Aren't we all?

[attrayant]

21 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

A couple of strawmen here.  JK Rowling is selling books, the send me money angle is something you are trying to inject into the conversation.

 

No, that is exactly what these con artist preachers do.  I was attempting to draw contrast between honest people like Rowling and frauds like Graham and Popoff by saying that she doesn't follow-up her book sales with pleas for reader donations in return for promises of magical powers like the preachers do.  I provided the link in the last post and I even cued it up to start at the offending mark:  

 

 

Popoff: "It's not the water that releases the power, it's your obedience to the instructions of the prophet of god."

 

Guess who the "prophet of god" is.  What are his instructions?  Send money.  How do you think they get so rich?  Just from passing the collection plate around on Sunday?

 

Quote

I do not know what Stan Lee's reader's grasp on reality is, does it matter?

 

The defense was offered that an honest person doing an honest job is just selling some stories that their readership can temporarily fantasize about, then it matters.  That's what children are doing when they read Harry Potter and Spider-Man.  This is normal childhood naivety.  As they grow into their teen years, nearly all will come to realize that Harry Potter, Spider-Man, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are pure fiction and they'll move on with reality.  Most readers of Rick Warren's books will never pass this maturity milestone, and will likely continue believing in his nonsense throughout their adult life.  For living in this fantasy, they'll suffer from real missed opportunities offered by the real world.

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, attrayant said:

No, the reason I'm angry is because of all the fraud. 

 

21 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Aren't we all?

 

Maybe you missed a few posts in this thread, but some of them are defending the practice because... just think of all the money!

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by attrayant

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, attrayant said:

How do you think they get so rich?  Just from passing the collection plate around on Sunday?

I already explained that a great amount of wealth comes from sale of publications, also media deals, speaking engagements and yes there are donations as well. 

 

5 minutes ago, attrayant said:

The defense was offered that an honest person doing an honest job is just selling some stories that their readership can temporarily fantasize about, then it matters.  That's what children are doing when they read Harry Potter and Spider-Man.  This is normal childhood naivety.  As they grow into their teen years, nearly all will come to realize that Harry Potter, Spider-Man, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are pure fiction and they'll move on with reality.  Most readers of Rick Warren's books will never pass this maturity milestone, and will likely continue believing in his nonsense throughout their adult life.  For living in this fantasy, they'll suffer from real missed opportunities offered by the real world.

Rick Warren's best known books are about organizational strategy for churches and for individuals.  What are these missed opportunities?

 

14 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Maybe you missed a few posts in this thread, but some of them are defending the practice because... just think of all the money!

I think you are projecting now.

What @MajarTheLion actually said was "I don't begrudge others for working hard and becoming successful"

[attrayant]

12 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I think you are projecting now.

 

What @MajarTheLion actually said was "I don't begrudge others for working hard and becoming successful"

 

I am not projecting.  He did not frame his statement, so I read it within the context of this discussion.  There is nothing wrong with working hard and becoming successful, but within the context of this discussion, "working hard and becoming successful" is talking about the disgusting tricks these should-be criminal preachers are playing on their "customers", and that's what the poster was referring to when he replied to me.

 

What's wrong with working hard and becoming successful?  Nothing.  What's wrong with the way Bernie Madoff worked hard and became successful?  Plenty.

[canuckamuck]

13 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

I am not projecting.  He did not frame his statement, so I read it within the context of this discussion.  There is nothing wrong with working hard and becoming successful, but within the context of this discussion, "working hard and becoming successful" is talking about the disgusting tricks these should-be criminal preachers are playing on their "customers", and that's what the poster was referring to when he replied to me.

 

What's wrong with working hard and becoming successful?  Nothing.  What's wrong with the way Bernie Madoff worked hard and became successful?  Plenty.

I am against bad people too.

[Scott]

There is no need to respond to the troll.   He's been suspended, so he won't be answering.  

[the guest]

Religion (if you like that sort of thing) should be kept inside your house.

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

If by Jews he was referring to the globalist bankers controlling the deep state, then his comment remains to be true. If instead he meant all Jews, then of course that comment was antisemitic.  I am pretty sure he was talking about the Rothschilds and friends..

And you probably believe you're not an anti-semite.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, MajarTheLion said:

What's wrong with preachers becoming filthy rich? Have any of them in your list taken vows of poverty I haven't heard about. I detect a little jealousy and anti-Christian bigotry.

 

I guess I'm different from you. I don't begrudge others for working hard and becoming successful. Take Rick Warren, for example. He's a very successful author. Good for him. What is he supposed to do to escape your obvious hatred?

Well, if they claim to be Christian, Jesus might find something wrong:

 

Matthew: 19:24I'll say it again--it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!"

 

Luke 12:15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

James 5:1-6 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 

2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 

3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 

4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 

5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 

6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

 

There's a lot more where that came from. I still have to find a passage where Jesus praises people for accumulating wealth. But what does he know about Christianity?