UK ideas on post-Brexit ties are "pure illusion", EU's Tusk says

[aright]

"This is just like the same nonsense that Brexiters were saying until recently about France and the Netherlands. That their electorates were about to install anti EU governments.  Remember that? How did that turn out? The economies in the EU are in an upward swing now. EU discontent is rapidly subsiding. "

 

Thanks for that! Brexiters nonsense! Of course they no longer have discontent!

 

Discontent is rapidly subsiding????

 

"The election result could have serious consequences for Italy’s place within the EU.

Italy was one of the founding members of the European project but Euroscepticism has grown in recent years, partly as a reaction to austerity policies and fiscal discipline imposed by Brussels, and partly because Italians feel they have been abandoned by the rest of the EU in dealing with the migration crisis.

Two of the biggest parties in the electoral race – the League and the Five Star Movement – are deeply Eurosceptic.

The League has even threatened to haul Italy out of the EU if Brussels refused to relax spending limits and change the Dublin Regulation by which migrants have to remain in the first EU country they land in while their asylum bids are considered – a rule which has made Italy a vast holding pen for arrivals from Libya."

Pizza and Prosecco. A happiness recipe! What more do they need?

Shush! Only Brexiters Know. 

 

[Air Smiles]

I wish people would stop calling it Brexit, the correct name is Brino.

[aright]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

 I think the benefits of coalition government are lost on you

Can you please explain them to me

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/922497/Bundestag-Angela-Merkel-Alice-Weidel-Brexit-Britain-sovereignty?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

[ilostmypassword]

8 hours ago, aright said:

"This is just like the same nonsense that Brexiters were saying until recently about France and the Netherlands. That their electorates were about to install anti EU governments.  Remember that? How did that turn out? The economies in the EU are in an upward swing now. EU discontent is rapidly subsiding. "

 

Thanks for that! Brexiters nonsense! Of course they no longer have discontent!

 

Discontent is rapidly subsiding????

 

"The election result could have serious consequences for Italy’s place within the EU.

Italy was one of the founding members of the European project but Euroscepticism has grown in recent years, partly as a reaction to austerity policies and fiscal discipline imposed by Brussels, and partly because Italians feel they have been abandoned by the rest of the EU in dealing with the migration crisis.

Two of the biggest parties in the electoral race – the League and the Five Star Movement – are deeply Eurosceptic.

The League has even threatened to haul Italy out of the EU if Brussels refused to relax spending limits and change the Dublin Regulation by which migrants have to remain in the first EU country they land in while their asylum bids are considered – a rule which has made Italy a vast holding pen for arrivals from Libya."

Pizza and Prosecco. A happiness recipe! What more do they need?

Shush! Only Brexiters Know. 

 

As I've pointed out, we've seen this kind of thing before. Remember how first the French and then the Dutch were predicted by Brexiters to be on the verge of leaving the EU? Counting once again on those chickens to be hatched?

 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 2/25/2018 at 2:10 PM, Jip99 said:

 

 

I am not sure whether to admire, or mock, the certainty with which you assert Armageddon for the UK. A remarkable talent.

 

Perhaps you could now go and advise your home country because they are in deeper <deleted> than the UK could ever be in.

 

 

Yeah headbanger in chief Farige went statewards to help get Trump elected. A transatlantic poison indeed. An alliance of idiots. Thanks to our American friend for stating it as the world sees the UK at the moment. 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 2/25/2018 at 2:19 PM, JTXR said:

Oh, not Armageddon, certainly,  just a slide into a respectable but threadbare mediocrity.  The sheer mendacity of the pro-Brexit campaign foreshadowed it, and the world-class confusion displayed by the government after the vote can only confirm it.

Well, I regularly send advice to the dolt in the White House, but for some reason he appears resistant to its wisdom.  And yes, we seem to be in something of a race to the bottom.  See you there. 

All you need to know was everybody informed on the side of remain the rest uniformed save for Daily Mail briefings led by Farige , Gove and Johnston (last minute leaver) on the side of Leave. Bring on the Corbyn army and lets defeat this fifth column of saboteurs in our midst. 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 2/25/2018 at 2:39 PM, Grouse said:

Some of us have loftier ideals, hopes and ambitions. If you still don't understand the upsides of the EU it is pointless explaining them to you now. I'll take upper quartile over mediocrity in all the key indices. We can still do it; don't be so fearful of our German friends ?

For a brief moment way back on post election day the mediocre dreamed that they had power. They are reluctant to accept they never had and never will and sadly that is to be their fate in this their life. 

[aright]

31 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Quote

 

As I've pointed out, we've seen this kind of thing before. Remember how first the French and then the Dutch were predicted by Brexiters to be on the verge of leaving the EU? Counting once again on those chickens to be hatched?

 

No I don't recall Brexiters predicting the French and Dutch were on the verge of leaving but I do recall the fact that in the last few years extreme right wing parties are having a resurgence in the EU. You only have to look at the election returns to see that and the influence/consideration  (Germany's a good example) they have on government policy. Check out the latest Italian election polls if you don't believe me.

Being in denial and adopting the foetal position is of course an option.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, aright said:

Can you please explain them to me

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/922497/Bundestag-Angela-Merkel-Alice-Weidel-Brexit-Britain-sovereignty?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

You vote for parties that more accurately represent your views

 

Ruling majorities are formed as a result of negotiated policies

 

In all, one gets more representative governments

 

The downsides include the time to set up and comparative weakness.

 

If you look at States with coalition governments, they seem to do well in general with some obvious exceptions such as Italy.

 

No surprise that Denmark has coalition governments.

 

I think the Lib Dems were a benign influence on the Cons. Our winner takes all leaves for more disenfranchised voters 

[ballpoint]

9 hours ago, Air Smiles said:

I wish people would stop calling it Brexit, the correct name is Brino.

I thought it was Ootfpitf?

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, aright said:

Can you please explain them to me

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/922497/Bundestag-Angela-Merkel-Alice-Weidel-Brexit-Britain-sovereignty?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

I also think that your support for AfD as a prop for your pro Brexit stance is shameful. Surely we can at least agree that a centrist BRD is good for all.

[aright]

41 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You vote for parties that more accurately represent your views

 

Ruling majorities are formed as a result of negotiated policies

 

In all, one gets more representative governments

 

The downsides include the time to set up and comparative weakness.

 

If you look at States with coalition governments, they seem to do well in general with some obvious exceptions such as Italy.

 

No surprise that Denmark has coalition governments.

 

I think the Lib Dems were a benign influence on the Cons. Our winner takes all leaves for more disenfranchised voters 

The winner takes all is part of living in a Capitalist country. I'm sure, like most of us, you embrace the benefits of capitalism but you seem to want the system to be controlled by the softness (and I don't mean that in a nasty way) of socialism. It doesn't work like that.

Italy is a good case in point for the weakness of coalition government. They are currently run by an executive cabinet of 4 main parties and 4 independent parties and they can't agree on anything.

Yes Denmark has a Coalition. How is Borgerlige doing? I would probably vote for them because of Pernille Vermund she is a Mutti antonym if there is such a thing.

I personally prefer to live in a sovereign state run by a strong stable government led by a majority party but do accept this is not always possible.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

The winner takes all is part of living in a Capitalist country. I'm sure, like most of us, you embrace the benefits of capitalism but you seem to want the system to be controlled by the softness (and I don't mean that in a nasty way) of socialism. It doesn't work like that.

All the Scandinavian countries and most of the Europe has a nice combination of both capitalism and socialism. Yes, those two can and really should work together. 

 

Pure capitalism is heartless society. Pure socialism is mindless society. The middleway can and does provide the best solution for all members of the society. 

[aright]

45 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I also think that your support for AfD as a prop for your pro Brexit stance is shameful. Surely we can at least agree that a centrist BRD is good for all.

I can think of nothing worse than voting for the AfD and am disappointed at your slur.The article was published to show the difficulty German Government now has with an extreme right wing group in partial political control..

[teatree]

On 2/24/2018 at 7:44 AM, Jip99 said:

 

Correct diagnosis doctor, but wrong surgery.

 

Consensus is an inappropriate word - there was a majority vote to leave. But, as you correctly point out that was only part of the process - what we were leaving for was not identified. That was the fault of politicians then an since.

 

There is no pride to swallow, the electorate are not at fault for Cameron’s inability to have a clear vision in place for ‘leave’. Everything that I have seen of the EU since the vote reaffirmed my view that is not something I want to be part of.

 

Whilst May and her cohorts will dilute some people’s image of Brexit, I am content that ANY Brexit is better than none.

 

I am no great fan of May (although it was a hospital pass leading us out of the EU) but that lady is not for turning where Brexit is concerned - there is no going back, get used to that. 

75% of votes in the last election were for parties that stated they would leave the customs union. 

 

[dick dasterdly]

35 minutes ago, teatree said:

75% of votes in the last election were for parties that stated they would leave the customs union. 

 

The last general election was the 'oddest' that I can remember.

 

Only the liberal democrats (?) fully supporting 'remain', whilst the tories and labour party skirted the issue - even though, or more accurately, because, it was the 'hottest' issue....

Edited February 27, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, teatree said:

75% of votes in the last election were for parties that stated they would leave the customs union. 

 

 

 

-

Edited February 27, 2018 by Jip99

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, aright said:

The winner takes all is part of living in a Capitalist country. I'm sure, like most of us, you embrace the benefits of capitalism but you seem to want the system to be controlled by the softness (and I don't mean that in a nasty way) of socialism. It doesn't work like that.

Italy is a good case in point for the weakness of coalition government. They are currently run by an executive cabinet of 4 main parties and 4 independent parties and they can't agree on anything.

Yes Denmark has a Coalition. How is Borgerlige doing? I would probably vote for them because of Pernille Vermund she is a Mutti antonym if there is such a thing.

I personally prefer to live in a sovereign state run by a strong stable government led by a majority party but do accept this is not always possible.

Here is a list of FPTP counties

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

 

Compare and contrast.

 

You have 2 hours.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

I can think of nothing worse than voting for the AfD and am disappointed at your slur.The article was published to show the difficulty German Government now has with an extreme right wing group in partial political control..

No slur intended. I withdraw the comment without hesitation. Sorry!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, teatree said:

75% of votes in the last election were for parties that stated they would leave the customs union. 

 

And would you say there is a majority today either in parliament or of the public generally? No; exactly.

[aright]

34 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Here is a list of FPTP counties

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

 

Compare and contrast.

 

You have 2 hours.

Sorry I can't oblige. I am in India at the moment and in frenetic conversation with the Dhobi Wallah who has lost one of my favorite shirts. I am getting the "So sorry Sahib , but you see Saab we do take great care but we can take no responsibility."

What happened to the good old days and values when you would punish his misdemeanor with a damn good thrashing which would make me feel better and my loss more bearable, he would feel better because he had atoned for his sin, and the police would feel comfortable because they hadn't need to get involved. 

I will however ask the Dhobi Waller what he feels about FPTP before I give him the beating he deserves. 

[aright]

5 hours ago, oilinki said:

 

Pure capitalism is heartless society. Pure socialism is mindless society. The middleway can and does provide the best solution for all members of the society. 

Why do you think pure capitalism is heartless? How do you get economic growth without self interest? Adam Smith wrote "it is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect our dinner but from their regard for their own interest".

There is nothing  wrong with Capitalism as a concept it's the lack of moral values that some of the people who practice it have but I suspect they exist in most political systems. We don't need to change the system we need to change people's values. 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Why do you think pure capitalism is heartless? How do you get economic growth without self interest? Adam Smith wrote "it is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect our dinner but from their regard for their own interest".

There is nothing  wrong with Capitalism as a concept it's the lack of moral values that some of the people who practice it have but I suspect they exist in most political systems. We don't need to change the system we need to change people's values. 

Does this post mean that DW has located your shirt? 

[teatree]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

And would you say there is a majority today either in parliament or of the public generally? No; exactly.

So you want a general election or a referendum every few months?  When does public opinion ever stay constant?  I suppose if remain had won you would be singing an entirely different tune.

 

We voted in a referendum, we then voted overwhelmingly for parties wanting to leave the customs union, there is a mandate for leaving so we must leave.

[aright]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Does this post mean that DW has located your shirt? 

No he has not located my shirt!.

I did however ask him his opinion on FPTP.

He said he always enjoys the Grand National.

[nontabury]

12 hours ago, aright said:

No I don't recall Brexiters predicting the French and Dutch were on the verge of leaving but I do recall the fact that in the last few years extreme right wing parties are having a resurgence in the EU. You only have to look at the election returns to see that and the influence/consideration  (Germany's a good example) they have on government policy. Check out the latest Italian election polls if you don't believe me.

Being in denial and adopting the foetal position is of course an option.

Why are those at one end of the argument, referred to by Remoaners, as

eft wing, while those of an opposing view called extreme right wing.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by nontabury

[chrissables]

On 25/02/2018 at 1:59 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

I'm rather warming to Brexit.

 

Not that I in anyway support the madness, but when the government's own analysis clearly indicates that the areas of the UK that voted for Brexit will be worst hit by the consequences, I am at least comforted in the thought there is some justice in the forthcoming decimation of the Brexit voting local economies. 

 

Meanwhile Brexit voters keen to 'stick one on the elite' can rejoice as the post Brexit bonus of reduced worker rights, reduced environmental protections, reduced controls over banks and tax dodging shaft the workers and enrich the elite. 

 

'Deregulated' Britain is going to be a very 'interesting' place for anyone who's not already loaded. 

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Idiot