Sturgeon says Scottish parliament will not consent to UK PM May's Brexit bill

[dick dasterdly]

10 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

And do you really think that the people of scotland would relish and enjoy being subservient to unelected jobsworths over in brussels.
Please remember that there are closed door meetings between eu jobsworths and BIG financials players such as soros..reps from citibank..rothchilds..goldman sachs..etc etc
At least every 5 years there are British general elections where people can vote to get rid of their respective MP if they so wish.
Try getting rid of the eu jobsworths like junker..tusk..etc etc
The eu is on its way to being an autocratic dictatorship like russia..china.imo.

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"Please remember that there are closed door meetings between eu jobsworths and BIG financials players such as soros..reps from citibank..rothchilds..goldman sachs..etc etc"

 

We are all (?) sure this is true - and that it applies to all governments... -  but is there evidence to prove this is the case?

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Please remember that there are closed door meetings between eu jobsworths and BIG financials players such as soros..reps from citibank..rothchilds..goldman sachs..etc etc"

 

We are all (?) sure this is true - and that it applies to all governments... -  but is there evidence to prove this is the case?

 

Some of Soros' meetings with top EU officials are documented. Who does he represent in these meetings? Can any rich person have such meetings?

[malagateddy]

I read various UK newspapers daily..it is well reported.
Why not google "brexit the movie" and watch it objectively..see what you think?
Cheers

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[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I think she's something of a Walter Mitty character who puts personal attainment ahead of everything else. So that makers her not much different to most other UK politicians.

Disagree with the 'Walter Mitty' reference but - 

 

"puts personal attainment ahead of everything else. So that makers her not much different to most other UK politicians."

 

agree 100% .

Edited March 1, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I’m just more curious than anything, but what makes differences in legal systems an impediment to Federalism? In the US every State has it’s own legal system, indeed lawyers need certification in the State in which they practice, it doesn’t cross State lines

 

The argument that if you cede too much to the States, invalidates the legitimacy of the center, I’m not sure I get. If that was the case Washington DC would be an worthless hulk, compared to State Capitals, who do wield immense power, yet clearly it’s not.

 

Maybe time to look back into your past. Charles Thompson, a Scots Irish from Northern Ireland was pivotal in crafting the US constitution and understood, with incredible insight how to craft the balance between central and devolved (States) rights and powers

Is there not the additional challenge of maintaining a consistency across 50-something states that is much less complex with 4? I really don't know much about how the US government is run, but the reserved matters (i.e. those areas retained by Westminster) could all be effectively managed in Scotland for the Scots.

 

We have moved to a new political era. A question often asked by independence supporters, but never satisfactorily answered, is what are the benefits of remaining in the Union. It seems that history and loyalty to a notion of what the UK once was is what drives many unionists. Independence will not negate the rightly proud history of the UK, but its purpose in the 21st century is no longer clear.

[malagateddy]

Think any indyref2 should be put on hold for a few years till the UK is free of the corrupt autocratic eu.
Lets wait and see how the UK economy is in few years time.
Anywaý..I would bet every Baht I have that if ever there was indyref2..the Scottish voting population would once again vote to REJECT independance.
Popping out and driving now for couple of hours..going to meet some fellow Brexit supporting expats for chat and cuppa coffee.
Catch you laters[emoji6][emoji16][emoji6]

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[dick dasterdly]

Just now, malagateddy said:

I read various UK newspapers daily..it is well reported.
Why not google "brexit the movie" and watch it objectively..see what you think?
Cheers

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I prefer not to watch or read any obviously biased media - unless the headline makes it clear that it will give me a good laugh at the level of bias shown!

[malagateddy]

Bias or not..the truth comes out

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[GinBoy2]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Is there not the additional challenge of maintaining a consistency across 50-something states that is much less complex with 4? I really don't know much about how the US government is run, but the reserved matters (i.e. those areas retained by Westminster) could all be effectively managed in Scotland for the Scots.

 

We have moved to a new political era. A question often asked by independence supporters, but never satisfactorily answered, is what are the benefits of remaining in the Union. It seems that history and loyalty to a notion of what the UK once was is what drives many unionists. Independence will not negate the rightly proud history of the UK, but its purpose in the 21st century is no longer clear.

That is actually a really good intellectual question, ‘what is it’s purpose in the 21st century'

 

In that scenario, the US isn’t a good role model, a mongrel nation created from immigrants of many nations, they created their own nation, and sense of nationhood.

 

For the UK, a manufactured concept, maybe be the better analogy would be Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, all artificially created nations, trying to weld different historical ethnic groups into a ‘country’. None worked out so well.

 

Equally look at what the British & French tried to do in the Middle East, create artificial countries out out of differnt tribes

 

The only one of all those examples that emerged peacefully was the Czech Slovak divorce, the rest,not so good

[RichardColeman]

On 27/2/2561 at 3:26 PM, webfact said:

"I will not sign up to something that effectively undermines the whole foundation on which devolution is built," Sturgeon told BBC radio.

Translation : we want access to the funds of the EU as we cannot balance our books

[RuamRudy]

 

2 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Translation : we want access to the funds of the EU as we cannot balance our books

Show me a country that can balance its book.

As it is, Scotland contributes more to the UK exchequer than any other region of the UK other than the City of London and the SE of England.

Once we no longer have to shoulder a share of the refurbishment of the London sewer system, HS2, HoP refurbishment etc etc, and start to effectively manage the taxation of the North Sea, there is no reason we cannot provide for our people.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Show me a country that can balance its book.

As it is, Scotland contributes more to the UK exchequer than any other region of the UK other than the City of London and the SE of England.

Once we no longer have to shoulder a share of the refurbishment of the London sewer system, HS2, HoP refurbishment etc etc, and start to effectively manage the taxation of the North Sea, there is no reason we cannot provide for our people.

OIL...........The coal/steam age has near gone, the oil age will disappear too...Then what for Scotland...?

[MrPatrickThai]

On 2/28/2018 at 11:00 AM, John1012 said:

Who really cares what the Scottish parliament does or says, except perhaps the people of Scotland who are slowly going bankrupt.

Many English people as they don't want to be separate from Europe with Scotland and NI leaving the Union.

 

Ridiculous the whole thing -  trying to change a vote that has already happened, very undemocratic.

[MrPatrickThai]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Please remember that there are closed door meetings between eu jobsworths and BIG financials players such as soros..reps from citibank..rothchilds..goldman sachs..etc etc"

 

We are all (?) sure this is true - and that it applies to all governments... -  but is there evidence to prove this is the case?

Anyone with half a brain knows that Soros etc own the news channels and doesn't need proof.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

OIL...........The coal/steam age has near gone, the oil age will disappear too...Then what for Scotland...?

Indeed, oil will one day be replaced,  but we are not there yet.

 

Since the opening up of the North Sea in the mid 60s, the Norwegian and UK sectors have produced broadly similar volumes. During this time, the Norwegian government has collected in excess of GBP 650 billion in taxes from their oil companies, whereas the UK has collected around 270 billion. Even in the last couple of difficult years in the industry, Norway's oil receipts have been positive wheras the UK is negative - our government is handing back taxpayers' money to the oil companies as they continue to produce oil.

 

But that aside, you make a good point about diversity of the economy. Scotland is at the forefront of renewables technology (the technology that will replace the oil), generating via wind, wave and hydro means. We have a very bouyant food and drink sector, tech, financial services, engineering etc.: basically a panoply of diverstity, much like every other functioning country.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Anyone with half a brain knows that Soros etc own the news channels and doesn't need proof.

What about Rothermere, the Barclay Brothers, Dacre, Murdoch, Bannen...

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Many English people as they don't want to be separate from Europe with Scotland and NI leaving the Union.

Ridiculous the whole thing -  trying to change a vote that has already happened, very undemocratic.

Parliament can change its mind. Very democratic. The Scottish Parliament now has constitutional rights and is entitled to use them. Whether they should or will use them is another matter.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Anyone with half a brain knows that Soros etc own the news channels and doesn't need proof.

 

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

What about Rothermere, the Barclay Brothers, Dacre, Murdoch, Bannen...

Well that may or may not fit in with the obsessions of the Conspiracy Theory crowd. Maybe the one with the half brain can tell us how the SNP and the Scottish Parliament are also being manipulated.

Edited March 1, 2018 by SheungWan

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Never fear - it is always interesting to get an outsider's perspective.

 

 

 

Add to the mix the different legal systems (not different laws, but funadamentally different systems) and EVEL, a rule introduced to Westminster that prevents Scottish MPs voting on matters that are purely English in nature, and you can see that the UK system of government is destined to create grievances. This last one is especially contentious because, due to the way that the UK government calculates disbursement to the devolved parliaments, there are relatively few laws that actually affect only England, even if it would appear at first glance that they do.

 

One of the oft-repeated fallacies in the argument  is that the desire for Scottish independence is based upon some form of anti-English sentiment. This is a much repeated trope intended to discredit the independence movement even though their is very little substance to back it up. The simple fact is that many in Scotland see that a parliament where 90% of the representatives are from what they consider another country, they do not believe that the interests of the Scots are being met by Westminster, and that for the greater good of all parties in the union, there should be an amicable separation.

Are you sure that SNP members of parliament have never voted on matters that are purely English.

 

As for your denial that there is little or none anti- English sentiment in the Nationist thinking. Well I’ll just let one of the greatest living Scotsmen answer.

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

That is actually a really good intellectual question, ‘what is it’s purpose in the 21st century'

 

In that scenario, the US isn’t a good role model, a mongrel nation created from immigrants of many nations, they created their own nation, and sense of nationhood.

 

For the UK, a manufactured concept, maybe be the better analogy would be Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, all artificially created nations, trying to weld different historical ethnic groups into a ‘country’. None worked out so well.

 

Equally look at what the British & French tried to do in the Middle East, create artificial countries out out of differnt tribes

 

The only one of all those examples that emerged peacefully was the Czech Slovak divorce, the rest,not so good

You could say that about most European countries, confirm how long the U.K has been in existence with say Germany, Italy,Spain etc,.

 

look up Northumbria. Or you could go even further back and discover that at one time England consisted of many Kingdoms. Same for the clans in Scotland.

Edited March 1, 2018 by nontabury

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Are you sure that SNP members of parliament have never voted on matters that are purely English.

 

As for your denial that there is little or none anti- English sentiment in the Nationist thinking. Well I’ll just let one of the greatest living Scotsmen answer.

I am not sure that Sir WIlliam Connolly OBE KBE MBE etc. speaks for the rest of the country. His subservience and toadying to the crown is somewhat disappointing, don't you think? If he added substance to his comments, maybe they would be understandable, but without anything to qualify them, he is simply another starry eyed sycophant.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

You could say that about most European countries, confirm how land the U.K has been in existence with say Germany, Italy,Spain etc,.

In its current form? Less than 100 years - all this fuss for an entity that is less than a century old.

[malagateddy]

R/R..imo..you are a very bitter "jocko"..your obvious "talent" surely would be better served as one of the snp's govt minnions

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[RuamRudy]

Just now, malagateddy said:

R/R..imo..you are a very bitter "jocko"..your obvious "talent" surely would be better served as one of the snp's govt minnions

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Bitter? Can you give me examples of any bitterness I have demonstrated?

About what or whom am I bitter?

[malagateddy]

Imo..you are bitter about the English/British/Scottish Unionists like myself

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[nontabury]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

In its current form? Less than 100 years - all this fuss for an entity that is less than a century old.

And there’s me thinking that the U.K.goes back to 1707 or was that 1604.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

And there’s me thinking that the U.K.goes back to 1707 or was that 1604.

In it's current form, not.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Imo..you are bitter about the English/British/Scottish Unionists like myself

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OK that is your answer to my second question but you have not addressed my first - can you provide examples of where I have demonstrated said bitterness towards English/British/Scottish Unionists like yourself?

[malagateddy]

Using a derogatory term to Rangers F C

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[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

Using a derogatory term to Rangers F C

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Sorry, my apologies. I should have been more respectful of the dead and referred to the late Glasgow Rangers FC. In my defence, I did mention earlier that I am not a football man so I am not so familiar with the more PC terminology.

 

But if that is all you have I will conclude that you are somewhat wide of the mark, and that your psychological profiling skills are not up to Cracker's.