Thailand Really Sucks As A Place To Raise Kids

[chanchao]

I have to say I realized more how dangerous and unhealthy Thailand can be since having kids. In my home country, kids could play outside in pretty safe conditions, for sure safe from traffic, and the air and overall environment would be cleaner and less hazardous. Far less to worry from cars, motorcycles, dogs, or generally unsafe environments.

Also there's not a lot of places around where you can take young kids to play that are healthy and safe. Sure there's shopping center playgrounds and the like, but overall there seems far less 'family recreation' spots compared to Western countries.

Discuss.

[Casanundra]

In a country that adores kids I doubt that you would find anywhere better to bring up kids providing of course you are happy to fund your way through a sub standard education system which is a different thing altogether.

However, as an outsider looking in to your comments, surely if the environment where you live isn't quite as safe as you would like for your children, then perhaps you should move to one that is and there are plenty of places that offer a gated community lifestyle for such a thing.

Edited January 29, 2007 by Casanundra

[Pink Mist]

you fail to address a lot of issues in your poll and to be honest there would be thousands, tens of thousands.

we are raising my stepson here in OZ and have been for the last few years, education is important, quality of life, family, but his family in LOS is important too.

It's a hard poll.

[Boo]

In terms of younger children I found activities for kids (outside tourist areas or Bangkok) to be virtually non existant. We tried to find some for the thai nieces to get them out of the MIL's hair for an hour or two but there were zero in their area. And ones that don't cost in tourist areas are hard to find.

My 8y/o neice does an after school activity of her choice 4 days per week in the UK. Spanish on Mondays, drama class on wednesday, active movement & gymnastics on thursdays & dance class on fridays. All of these classes are run by the school & she & her group of mates all do the same classes. These are only an extra hour in the day bu thte kids get so much out of it.

Of the non school run activities there are numerous in our borough for kids too, for a small (subsidised) fee, you kids can go to supervised swimming, karate or other martial arts, craft classes etc. These are run in the weekends or late afternoon.

Toddler groups like tumble tots are abundant, as are other parent & baby classes. In hubbies home town, the younger kids hang around the house watching tv or just lie there & the older ones (7+) go & play these computor games at the local internet cafe. I never see them skipping rope, riding bikes or any of the things my niece does in the local parks or in her own back yard, as you rightly point out, there are no places for them to do it except the street & it is so dangerous, I wouldn't feel comfortable with it.

[Vespa]

I agree on the most part .

No public playgrounds around or very few with crappy and old swing sets.

Trying to cross the street with your kids is a joke as your average driver is a total moron who could care less about letting a person with a child cross.

The school system is a joke and I think the term "Thai Education" is an oxymoron, even if you're paying for private school.

As much I disliked living in the USA after discovering LOS as a single man , may well end up back there for the sake of my son.

[esprit]

One only has to look at the discourteousness of school children in the UK or US to understand that perhaps there are advantages having a child educated here in Thailand. Most international schools still impart a degree of discilpine , now totally lost both in the UK and US you only need to look at the juvenile crime figures there.

Further why is it then that Paedophiles turning up in Thailand or Cambodia always come from Western countries rather than the other way round ? You really think that is safe to allow your children to be brought up were those perverts are free to roam? Why read the latest UK press, 325 convicted Paedophiles are free to roam around as the UK government let them in and don't know where they are - call that safe?

Or rather you love the American system so much where every month some nutter murders children in their schools because half the nation thinks it a jolly good thing to have guns!

Strange that some people have such a perverse veiw of safety.

To balance things a little then why is that Thais profess there love of children yet bundle them into the back of a pick-up where they can easily get tossed out , and do during an accident. One of the highest child, traffic mortality rates in the world !

As for health then sure some of the facilities in the US are the best in the world - but then they need to be as it is the world junk food centre so you need those facilities. Look at the obesity rates in US and Europe, call that healthy.

The UK also has the highest under 16 birth rate in the western world - call that good education?

The fact of the matter is, it does not matter where you bring up children, given good guidance and a lot of love from their parents, valuable assistance, tutoring and mentoring by good teachers they will grow up to be responsible adults wherever you are. Shove them out of the house at 8 am , don't see them 'till 6pm because both parents are to materialistic that they are working then you are heading for trouble wherever you live.

Depends on what set of values you are judging what is good or what is bad.

Dave

That is said from experience of living, working and bringing up children on 2 continents.

[helicoptor]

One only has to look at the discourteousness of school children in the UK or US to understand that perhaps there are advantages having a child educated here in Thailand. Most international schools still impart a degree of discilpine , now totally lost both in the UK and US you only need to look at the juvenile crime figures there.

Further why is it then that Paedophiles turning up in Thailand or Cambodia always come from Western countries rather than the other way round ? You really think that is safe to allow your children to be brought up were those perverts are free to roam? Why read the latest UK press, 325 convicted Paedophiles are free to roam around as the UK government let them in and don't know where they are - call that safe?

Or rather you love the American system so much where every month some nutter murders children in their schools because half the nation thinks it a jolly good thing to have guns!

Strange that some people have such a perverse veiw of safety.

To balance things a little then why is that Thais profess there love of children yet bundle them into the back of a pick-up where they can easily get tossed out , and do during an accident. One of the highest child, traffic mortality rates in the world !

As for health then sure some of the facilities in the US are the best in the world - but then they need to be as it is the world junk food centre so you need those facilities. Look at the obesity rates in US and Europe, call that healthy.

The UK also has the highest under 16 birth rate in the western world - call that good education?

The fact of the matter is, it does not matter where you bring up children, given good guidance and a lot of love from their parents, valuable assistance, tutoring and mentoring by good teachers they will grow up to be responsible adults wherever you are. Shove them out of the house at 8 am , don't see them 'till 6pm because both parents are to materialistic that they are working then you are heading for trouble wherever you live.

Depends on what set of values you are judging what is good or what is bad.

Dave

That is said from experience of living, working and bringing up children on 2 continents.

Well said, I would rather bring my children up here than back in Britain, JMPO

[Pink Mist]

One only has to look at the discourteousness of school children in the UK or US to understand that perhaps there are advantages having a child educated here in Thailand. Most international schools still impart a degree of discilpine , now totally lost both in the UK and US you only need to look at the juvenile crime figures there.

Further why is it then that Paedophiles turning up in Thailand or Cambodia always come from Western countries rather than the other way round ? You really think that is safe to allow your children to be brought up were those perverts are free to roam? Why read the latest UK press, 325 convicted Paedophiles are free to roam around as the UK government let them in and don't know where they are - call that safe?

Or rather you love the American system so much where every month some nutter murders children in their schools because half the nation thinks it a jolly good thing to have guns!

Strange that some people have such a perverse veiw of safety.

To balance things a little then why is that Thais profess there love of children yet bundle them into the back of a pick-up where they can easily get tossed out , and do during an accident. One of the highest child, traffic mortality rates in the world !

As for health then sure some of the facilities in the US are the best in the world - but then they need to be as it is the world junk food centre so you need those facilities. Look at the obesity rates in US and Europe, call that healthy.

The UK also has the highest under 16 birth rate in the western world - call that good education?

The fact of the matter is, it does not matter where you bring up children, given good guidance and a lot of love from their parents, valuable assistance, tutoring and mentoring by good teachers they will grow up to be responsible adults wherever you are. Shove them out of the house at 8 am , don't see them 'till 6pm because both parents are to materialistic that they are working then you are heading for trouble wherever you live.

Depends on what set of values you are judging what is good or what is bad.

Dave

That is said from experience of living, working and bringing up children on 2 continents.

here here Dave, agree 100%

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

I'm concerned about my little boy one day walking on the pavements covered with all the dog faeces and the motorbikes.

[helicoptor]

I'm concerned about my little boy one day walking on the pavements covered with all the dog faeces and the motorbikes.

That concern is also valid in the park in front of the house I used to live in in the UK.

As was stated earlier, be the best parent you can be to your kids, wherever you chose to raise them, and hope they turn out okay (the way they turn out can be a bit of a lottery in some cases)

[esprit]

Barney,

Just have to keep them safe so that they know where to walk. No differant from stopping them from picking up druggie's needles in London or New York or not treading in the human faeces in Paris due to the French Algerians not having anywhere to live.

As for motorbikes they are a sourge everywhere.

Dave

[chanchao]

> Further why is it then that Paedophiles turning up in Thailand or Cambodia always come from

> Western countries rather than the other way round ? You really think that is safe to allow your

> children to be brought up were those perverts are free to roam?

At the risk of taking this discussion WAY out there to where it doesn't belong, it'd be a mistake to think that non-Thai paedophiles in Thailand are even remotely a factor to worry about. Child sexual abuse is rife in Thailand, and guess what, just like everywhere else in the world it's 'always' the father/uncle/dude next door.

Assuming our kids don't grow up in a small village and without mum or dad present, I don't think this is a particularly great risk. (Well, not compared to being killed by traffic, falling off something, dogs, or mosquitos (dengue fever, etc.)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[jumnien]

I think the opportunity to raise a child here in Thailand with my lovely wife is the greatest pleasure of my life! We survive two short trips a year back to California just to remind ourselves why we are here. That said, different strokes for different folks. I feel deeply sorry for children raised in Thailand to parents that are steeped in resentment and negativity and lack the courage to return to their native lands.

Edited January 29, 2007 by mdeland

[esprit]

mdeland,

I quite agree and wherever possible it is good for children to travel back to countries in which they were born. Mostly of course they would have relatives there anyway. Of course if they were born in Thailand they are only going to their parents country of birth so it is just another foreign counntry and like all, when they are old enough to appreciate it, it expands their horizons and understanding of how others live. That way when they themselves are old enough they will be able to decide for themselves, where they may want to live and bring up their own children based on their own experiences.

[qualtrough]

I have to say I realized more how dangerous and unhealthy Thailand can be since having kids. In my home country, kids could play outside in pretty safe conditions, for sure safe from traffic, and the air and overall environment would be cleaner and less hazardous. Far less to worry from cars, motorcycles, dogs, or generally unsafe environments.

Also there's not a lot of places around where you can take young kids to play that are healthy and safe. Sure there's shopping center playgrounds and the like, but overall there seems far less 'family recreation' spots compared to Western countries.

Discuss.

Yeah, with all the school and drive-by shootings in Thailand I can't imagine raising children here. No pedophiles, runaways, drug use, dog bites, or gangs, etc. back home either.

BTW, what are you smoking? I would like some too!

[berries]

I think it is incredibly naive to think that Thailand doesn't have its fair share of drug addicts, pedophiles and undisciplined children. I have seen and heard so many very troubling things since I've been here. A friend of mine was stabbed multiple times for cutting someone up in traffic, a man carrying a knife ran passed me as I walked off the Sky Train at Ekamai, tourists being shot for arguing with police officers - there are things happening every day as you would expect in a city of this size. If you can't read a Thai newspaper, don't know Thai people from every social class, and you're fortunate enough not to live in an area where rape, drug abuse and violence are common place - you're just protected from it - it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Having said that, if you're protected from it then the likelihood is your children will be too - it is very easy to live in a happy little bubble here where none of the bad stuff ever enters your hemisphere. The thing I don't like about city living in the UK is you are exposed to people you would probably rather avoid on a daily basis. There are so many drug addicts and people with mental health problems walking the streets. I also think the comment about International School children being better disciplined is naive. If you are comparing it to a state school then yes, obviously, but if you compare them to private schools in the UK then I would disagree. I worked in a state grammar school in the UK before coming to work here in one of the city's better International schools and there is no comparison. The standards at home were much higher and the children were much more motivated to learn and had better learning skills than the children I teach here. I think it all depends on what your life is like in your home country. If you have access to good schools and a good standard of living at home then it's easier to look at Thailand more objectively. If your standard of living is not so good in your home country then Thailand is probably a paradise you never want to leave.

[shadowy]

There are good and bad things about living in Los with kids.

Once you have done the rounds at all the museums and decent playground, what is there to do ?

My son joined a club at the local central, its alot of fun, alot of nice peole and i also made friends. but he can speak fluent thai so i cant imagine what it would be like like for a foreign kid with no thai language skills.

The pollution worries me, but then again not to many kids have asthama here compared to back home. The poo poo onthe ground, well you just need to look where you are going. Poeple are mainly friendly love your kids to death (or pretend to ) school is ok , and i am sure my 5 year old couldnt read and write in 2 languages if he was back home, so its an advantage. and i say if you thin its that bad....go home.

[Valjean]

Having raised two children in the US up and through university (we’ll 4 months to go for the last one!!) and now with a partner in Thailand with a toddler I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this. About the job I did with my first two and about I’d approach it in a second go around (he’s not mine so I did have an opportunity to reflect on what I was signing up for). I’ve thought about schools and where we should live – and where I want to live. About culture, about opportunities, about all of that. And I think of the successful & happy people I know (in the whole sense) and the troubled ones. It just seems to me to come down to parenting. While the environment, friends, etc. are huge influences on a child it’s the parents (or family – single, extended, etc.) that steer them through this. I know some amazing people who have had very unconventional or tough upbringing – home schooling, traveling, poor, etc. who are quite OK. And others that had the best of everything and don’t make anything of their life (or are President of the US).

I’ve also come to realize how much I think is innate in the person. That’s a black box really.

[GuestHouse]

Our daughter was raised in Thailand for the first 7 years of her life, or son for the first 5 years, we have now moved to Europe.

The reason for the move was not only what was best for our children but what was best for us as a family. However, the consideration of our children's education, welfare and development was one of the major issues and I would add, was becoming increasingly important as the grew older.

We had the advantage of my employers paying for our children to go to the best international school in our area (Choburi) but we still felt, as did many of our professional expatriate friends, that Thailand was a great place to raise children - Up to a certain age.

Certainly we are extremely happy with the education and development of our children outside of Thailand, in particular we are very happy with the way our daughter has been encouraged to think of herself far more as an individual entitled to her own opinions and own choices in life.

Both of our children have been challenged in the education system outside of Thailand in a way that was not happening within Thailand.

I think it is important to accept that this is a comparison of what is claimed to be one of the best schools in Thailand with what is recognized as an excellent school here in Europe. I shudder to think what kind of education kids receive in the Thai state system, shackling minds seems to be the main aim of the rote learning most Thai children are subjected to.

As for these doom and gloom reports of Kids in the UK. Last year I had the privilege (and it was a privilege) to visit 8 different schools in the UK promoting engineering as a career. These where all comprehensives, the children we met all between the ages of 16 and 18.

I was stunned by the abilities and commitment of these young people. All very polite and respectful, they asked questions and engaged in discussion with enquiring and I would say agile minds. It was clear, learning, getting on in life, making a contribution and being engaged in life was hugely important to these young people.

Not a yob in sight, just young people with a zest of life.

I realize a bunch of smiling, compliant Thai kids might be less of a challenge. But I know which way I want my kids to grow up.

And that to me is the biggest danger of raising a child in Thailand – Having your daughter raised as dolly for irresponsible men, having your son raised as exactly that irresponsible person you don’t want for your daughter and having Son or Daughter trained (I don't say educated) to do as they are told without thinking, and certainly without asking questions.

[phibunmike]

No public playgrounds around or very few with crappy and old swing sets.

Trying to cross the street with your kids is a joke as your average driver is a total moron who could care less about letting a person with a child cross.

There is always the difference between rural and urban.

The little girl we take care of (my wife's niece) cycles 2km home from school on her own (unless one of the dogs has gone to meet her). Then she goes into the rice fields to catch frogs, or grasshoppers, or whatever. The she climbs her favourite tree in our garden to find the sweet berries growing there.

Later she helps prepare the evening meal, then afterwards does her homework on the floor. Then a bit of TV (no, not that one, television!). She might take me to see the stars, or the moon, or a particularly large mantis on the wall; or she will catch a grasshopper and bring it to me to see. Then, it's bedtime, and the next morning her magical day starts all over again.

Cheers,

Mike

[phibunmike]

No public playgrounds around or very few with crappy and old swing sets.

Trying to cross the street with your kids is a joke as your average driver is a total moron who could care less about letting a person with a child cross.

There is always the difference between rural and urban.

The little girl we take care of (my wife's niece) cycles 2km home from school on her own (unless one of the dogs has gone to meet her). Then she goes into the rice fields to catch frogs, or grasshoppers, or whatever. The she climbs her favourite tree in our garden to find the sweet berries growing there.

Later she helps prepare the evening meal, then afterwards does her homework on the floor. Then a bit of TV (no, not that one, television!). She might take me to see the stars, or the moon, or a particularly large mantis on the wall; or she will catch a grasshopper and bring it to me to see. Then, it's bedtime, and the next morning her magical day starts all over again.

Cheers,

Mike

[boogie]

And that to me is the biggest danger of raising a child in Thailand – Having your daughter raised as dolly for irresponsible men, having your son raised as exactly that irresponsible person you don’t want for your daughter

Thanks Guesthouse, as a parent who is considering a move to Thailand your comments are a great help. My biggest worry is the education side, from an education AND expense point of view. However I do feel that some issues you mention are the responsibilty of the parent as well as the school and the values they instill in their children. Surely raising your daughter as a dolly for irresponsible men or your son as an irresponsible person can happen anywhere in the world ( it certainly happens here in Bermuda) , and much of that is down to the parents.

Your comparison of schools is very interesting, and highlights my biggest concern. Your point on "up to a certain age " is also interesting, my daughters would only be of primary school age if we did make the move, so time is on our side. I assume you mean that it is the secondary education that is the biggest problem ? We have looked at a few schools on recent trips. It is easy to see how good each school looks and represents itself but until you hear from parents like yourself who have actually had children in the schools it is difficult to gauge how good or bad they actually are. So your input is really valuable, thanks. The Thai school system is just not an option as far as I can see. We just spent some time with my wife's 17yr old daughter who attends what is supposed to be the best school in her city. I was helping her with a homework assignment and bought her an atlas. I showed her a map of Europe and she asked me where America was ! And she is talking about going to University !

I don't really buy the argument about nothing to do. I like phibunmike's post . OK some places may have more and better facilities, but again I think parenting comes into the equation . The same argument is made here where we have a nice climate for outdoor activity and beautiful beaches. What is a better environment that or having it pitch black at 4 0'clock in the afternoon and freezing cold outside ? Agreed some of the playgrounds we saw recently were awful and in fact downright dangerous, but there were some very good ones aswell.

A very interesting thread thanks.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd have to agree with the main title. Many foreign friends of mine here with kids have discussed this kind of problem with me. Schools, society, language, future prospects- all of these things present problems from the foreign point of view.

One of my friends is disturbed by what he perceives as the open sexuality of Thai society and early loss of innocence. Remembering my own youth, I'm not entirely sure if Thai society is any more sex-obsessed than any other society, but women's rights at least here are far behind the curve of most Western nations.

I'd agree with previous posters that the way boys are allowed to get away with anything is disturbing, too. So it's hard to say if you'd rather raise boys or girls here.

It's possible to get a quality secondary education here, but you have to be careful about it and it depends a lot more on parenting and the individual child. International schools are not always the best choices. I've had a number of Indian private students (Hindus and Moslems) who were studying at the CHRISTIAN schools because, although they could easily afford the true international places, they perceived them as being very loose in regards to sex and drugs. From what I've seen of students from such schools around Bangkok, I'm not particularly impressed with their apparent education, attitude, or behavior.

For tertiary education, it would be better for most foreigners to have their children go abroad, for a variety of reasons- and that can be expensive for most people, even on salaries that are good by Thai standards.

"Steven"

[gummy]

Our daughter was raised in Thailand for the first 7 years of her life, or son for the first 5 years, we have now moved to Europe.

The reason for the move was not only what was best for our children but what was best for us as a family. However, the consideration of our children's education, welfare and development was one of the major issues and I would add, was becoming increasingly important as the grew older.

We had the advantage of my employers paying for our children to go to the best international school in our area (Choburi) but we still felt, as did many of our professional expatriate friends, that Thailand was a great place to raise children - Up to a certain age.

Certainly we are extremely happy with the education and development of our children outside of Thailand, in particular we are very happy with the way our daughter has been encouraged to think of herself far more as an individual entitled to her own opinions and own choices in life.

Both of our children have been challenged in the education system outside of Thailand in a way that was not happening within Thailand.

I think it is important to accept that this is a comparison of what is claimed to be one of the best schools in Thailand with what is recognized as an excellent school here in Europe. I shudder to think what kind of education kids receive in the Thai state system, shackling minds seems to be the main aim of the rote learning most Thai children are subjected to.

As for these doom and gloom reports of Kids in the UK. Last year I had the privilege (and it was a privilege) to visit 8 different schools in the UK promoting engineering as a career. These where all comprehensives, the children we met all between the ages of 16 and 18.

I was stunned by the abilities and commitment of these young people. All very polite and respectful, they asked questions and engaged in discussion with enquiring and I would say agile minds. It was clear, learning, getting on in life, making a contribution and being engaged in life was hugely important to these young people.

Not a yob in sight, just young people with a zest of life.

I realize a bunch of smiling, compliant Thai kids might be less of a challenge. But I know which way I want my kids to grow up.

And that to me is the biggest danger of raising a child in Thailand – Having your daughter raised as dolly for irresponsible men, having your son raised as exactly that irresponsible person you don't want for your daughter and having Son or Daughter trained (I don't say educated) to do as they are told without thinking, and certainly without asking questions.

Is good to note that you have such enthusiasm for UK schools and you attach high importance to challenging children How unfortunate therefore you felt unchallanged to find out even a tiny amount about the Thai state schools whilst you were here hence your comments.

I expect you are one of those many expats who surrounded yourselves with other expats and hence have no comprehension of the local environment even after 7 years. Now I can see why, that in another thread, you were upholding the virtues of Hippies in Thailand. You led a 7 year blinkered existance.

I have 4 children, 2 Thai/English and 2 English. Both English children were educated in the UK state system and have seemingly good careers after graduating although one has now chosen to resort to family life. The other children in Thailand, one was brought up thro the state system you so willing debase and has just been excepted into Oxford and the other is just on the ladder. So I fully support the comments of daveupson when he say it matters not but requires good guidance from parents more importantly. Therefore I would ask you not to close your mind to the pros and cons of other state's systems until you fully understand them both, only then can you judge.

To infer, as you have, that Thai girls and boys will be brought up in such a manner as you suggest is not only insulting it exhibits a degree of bias, snobbery and cultural ignorance only uplifted by the fact that fortunately for us all here you are now back in the UK.

As for you extolling the zest for life of school children in the UK perhaps you should visit some schools in Hackney and Streatham. They have a zest for life alright - but not as we know it.

[COBBER]

Thailand is a great place to bring up young children, but when it comes to serious education thats where it ends. IMO even the true International Schools don't cut the mustard in comparison to what is available in Western countries. Aside from academic achievement , i want my kids to be able to think for themselves and show a bit of initiative, and Thailand is not the best envirionment for this.

As far as exposure to drugs, violence, sex etc. goes Thailand is no worse than most countries, and surely guiding them down the right path should come from the home rather than outside influences.

This is a difficult decision for me. On one hand you want your kids to experience Thai culture,and give them a good grounding if they want to return to Thailand in adulthood, and on the other hand you want to give them the best education available, which IMO is not in Thailand.

[helicoptor]

We have a ten month old boy, with another on the way. Its interesting to read that LOS is a good place to raise kids up to a certain age because the education system is below par compared to Europe. A reminder: Thailand is still very much a third world country but things are changing and evolving all the time.. At this moment in time I would rather raise my kids here, and the age he is, time is on our side. We have a five year plan to stay here then re-evaluate things from then on.

I remember just back in November, two weeks before we got here, the park facing our UK home had a car parked on it, ablaze. This was nearly a weekly occurance. So for now I will take my chances in los. BTW I lived in Salford (AKA The Bronx)

[jumnien]

I would like a decent education for my boy (and hopefully more to follow). But I don't put the same value on what others often refer to as "education". I know many highly educated, unpleasant and unhappy people and many pleasant and happy "under-educated" folks. I could quite easily afford to live in any country in the world, but choose Thailand more for the spirit of the people rather than their aggregate test scores on international achievement tests (Daniel Goleman refers to it as "emotional intelligence"). There is a common respect level generally experienced here that I suppose has been educated out of us in the West. Just stating my observation and opinion, not facts.

[Etrigan]

I have children and they are being raised here, and I'll give you just one reason why: In Thailand I have NEVER seen the sign "No Children Allowed". Likewise, I have NEVER been ordered to remove my kids from any restaurant, shopping mall, or other public place. You see in Blighty, we were brought up to be seen and not heard, a philosophy I think is wrong. Maybe you need a more familiar environment for your kids.

[GuestHouse]

Is good to note that you have such enthusiasm for UK schools and you attach high importance to challenging children How unfortunate therefore you felt unchallanged to find out even a tiny amount about the Thai state schools whilst you were here hence your comments.

What gave you the idea that I have not looked into the Thai education system. I got my start in learning the Thai language by exchanging Thai lessons from the teachers at a Thai state school for helping out with English lessons/tutorials/homework and school projects for the children at the school. I still maintain close contact to the school and staff, sponsor two children at the school and sponsor school prize givings - I have in the past and continue to take a great interest in the Thai State School that gave me my first steps into the Thai language.

I expect you are one of those many expats who surrounded yourselves with other expats and hence have no comprehension of the local environment even after 7 years.

You expect wrongly. My wife, children and I lived in as the only foreigners in a Thai community. My children spoke Thai fluently, sadly that is slipping as they are no longer in Thailand, my wife and I both learned Thai and I earned a degree in Thai language and culture at a Thai university - Sorry to disappoint you in your expectations

Now I can see why, that in another thread, you were upholding the virtues of Hippies in Thailand. You led a 7 year blinkered existence.

Oh you poor poor man, having been offended that I take a different view of things in one thread, you drag it over here to continue your feeble arguments, please Gummy, do me and yourself a favor and let it pass... move on.

Oh and I know this might be a struggle to grasp, but when I say that our daughter spent the first 7 years of her life in Thailand, it does not mean that we spent only seven years in Thailand. .. you can figure it out.

I have 4 children, 2 Thai/English and 2 English. Both English children were educated in the UK state system and have seemingly good careers after graduating although one has now chosen to resort to family life.

Well done

The other children in Thailand, one was brought up thro the state system you so willing debase Stating that I would not want my children in the Thai state education system and making an observation of its all to real and familiar failings is not an act of debasement; but feel free to invent injury where non has been given and has just been excepted into Oxford and the other is just on the ladder.Again well done So I fully support the comments of daveupson when he say it matters not but requires good guidance from parents more importantly. Therefore I would ask you not to close your mind to the pros and cons of other state's systems until you fully understand them both, only then can you judge.Yes I do understand the Thai state educational system, and I have made my own judgment. I also think that the education system is only one part of the equation, I agree parenting is hugely important, but then again don't ignore the other part of the equation 'the pressures of social norms', which we take the view are not what we want our children being influenced by. That is our choice based on our experience, observation and against our standards and expectations. - Everyone differs in these things.

To infer, as you have, that Thai girls and boys will be brought up in such a manner as you suggest is not only insulting it exhibits a degree of bias, snobbery and cultural ignorance only uplifted by the fact that fortunately for us all here you are now back in the UK.

How many goofy inaccurate assumptions can you make in one post?

As I have said above, I am not ignorant of the Thai educational system or Thai culture, but go ahead and assume that I am because without that (false) assumption your arguments are meaningless.

And Gummy, I am not in the UK..... I'm in Rome..... that is the capital of I-T-A-L-Y...... Italy.

As for you extolling the zest for life of school children in the UK perhaps you should visit some schools in Hackney and Streatham. They have a zest for life alright - but not as we know it.Now who's being a judgmental, generalizing, snob?[/quote]

Edited spelling

Edited January 31, 2007 by GuestHouse

[Briggsy]

Guesthouse, I would like to thank you for 2 articulate, balanced and insightful posts. I fully agree with many points you have made.

In particular, the subtle yet relentless denigration of women as second-class citizens coupled with the commonplace sexual exploitation disturbs me at a deep level.

Who remembers the senator found having sex with a 13-year-old and his senatorial colleagues voted to retain his immunity from prosecution.