Bar In Soi Green For Sale

[Pompeynick]

hi ya....

I am a bar owner on samui and cannot believe some of the comments and advice being offered to you!

please feel free to PM me and I will be honest in reply to any of your questions.

please remember that some people who use this forum have had bad experiences on samui or in Thailand in general , and others are still enjoying the lifestyle that living here allows.

It's not for everyone , but some of us enjoy being here and do make a living by working here.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[StickKettleOn]

I wouldn't even consider it

if you have no problem with flushing 40 grand down the drain then go for it

theres only one way to make a SMALL fortune in Thailand and thats start with as bloody great big one.

yes all you've heard is true

you will have to pay the police and Thai mafia "protection" money.

if your bar gets too popular then you stand a good chance of being shot or done over by competing Thai bar owners.

As posters state here only do it if its a hobby and you have other income

if this is your career plan then forget it.

if you want to have fun in Thailand and not get into serious strife observe the following rules

never buy property

never get emotionally attached with a bar girl

and number one never do business there

keep all money and assets in the UK

buy property there and live out in LOs on the rent would be my advice

CCC - pointless taking advice from a**edit**who has not been to Samui for 2 years and has probably never had a bar.

**flame removed**

>>if you have no problem with flushing 40 grand down the drain then go for it

CCC – do not flush down drain. According to Yabs, none of the drains in Samui dont work anyway. Far better to throw it in the sea and let the toxic waste consumer it. Right, Yabs?

>>theres only one way to make a SMALL fortune in Thailand and thats start with as bloody great big one.

Sigh. Wrong again. I know of many successful Ferang business people who started off with far less than £40,000. My advice would be to chuck £40,000 at a privately run waste management system. Sources inform me this is a sector waiting to burst. Literally.

>>you will have to pay the police and Thai mafia "protection" money.

I ran a bar in Samui. Not once was I approached by Mafia or Police. I know many Ferang bar owners and not once have they been approached by mafia or police. It does not happen. Never.

if your bar gets too popular then you stand a good chance of being shot or done over by competing Thai bar owners

Of course. Paul, the owner of Tropical Murphy's, one of the most if not the most successful Ferang bars in Ko Samui was actually shot and killed years ago. He was replaced by a Thai mafia guy who had plastic surgery in order to look like him. Its all one big conspiracy engineered and supported by the police.

Same same for The Islander, The Deck, The Quarter Deck, and may other successful Ferang bars. None of them are actually alive. All part of the conspiracy folks. Rumour has it that Mario, owner of The Ark Bar and hotel was shot and killed by Taksin in a daring midnight raid involving two dozen ninjas and a CIA Black Op's team. If you happened to be swimming in the toxic waste matter just yards from the bar at 4am in the morning, you would have seen the helicopters landing the troops onto the roof of Arc bar. Taksins son now runs the place, after having extensive plastic suregry in order to look like Mario.

>>As posters state here only do it if its a hobby and you have other income

I believe one poster mentioned that often it is done for a hobby. It must be said these people are in the minority. Most Ferang bar owners enter the business to make money. Lets see.... hobbies in an ideal world;

Golf

Walking the dog in the woods

Snooker

Swimming

Training

Grafting your hairly balls off for 12 hours a day flogging booze.

Does not realy fit the mold does it folks?

>>never buy property

Why? Which uninformed reason care you offer for the simple advice of 'never by property'?

>>never get emotionally attached with a bar girl

What does this have to do with buying a bar?

>>buy property there and live out in LOs on the rent would be my advice

Is that not over simplifying things a little? Guys, seems we have all got it wrong. I suggest we all fly back to our home countries, purchase a house for a few hundred thousand quid, then fly back to LOS and live off the rent. We have all got it so, so, so wrong fellas.

CCC – my take on the subject; (and I have lived on Samui and ran a bar, ok?)

Owning a bar in Samui can be a healthy living if you get it right. More often than not, the chances of making decent money are very, very slim. Bars such as tropical Murphy's, The Islander et al all began many years ago when the lease rates were far cheaper, and established a nice market. That said, for £40,000 you are not in this market anyway. Obviously your market is the smaller variety.

£40,000 will get you a substantial enough bar in most areas outside of Mango. £40,000 in the Mango area will give you a nice enough bar – even bars such as The London Inn which underwent a complete re-build from top to bottom only cost around 2 million, including the lease, cost of build etc. However, I would suggest setting a bar up in a different area. Mango is tough and really, you would probably need girls….. and that would cause massive headaches – mamasans stitching you up, girls letting you down, leaving to work other bars. And anyway, who wants to run a bar with girls? No fun at all. Honestly, its not. You could set up a non girly bar in Mango, but its tough to get right. Take The Pharmacy for example – cost mega bucks to build and completely failed. That said, The Pharmacy was completely unsuited to a tropical island tourist haunt – way too ‘trendy’. The Kangaroo Bar is a good example of Ferang success in the Mango area; owned by a British guy who remained in Britain, and employed a Ferang Manager. The manager would regularly send home £7/8000 month profit to the owner, who only came to Samui twice a year. The reason for this success is simple; big, fun bar, no cheesy loud girls (just service staff), fun employees, great western music and and emphasis on getting pissed in a party atmosphere (vodka red bull buckets cheap, a DJ playing requests etc). Simple formula. Trying to build a bar which would be better suited in London SoHo is asking for trouble. The kangaroo bar was taken over by the Thai owner, when the lease expired. I believe he gave it to fammily. I may be wrong on that, but i believe thats the case. Either way, despite the fact that the british guy who owned it was making a small fortune, the Thai landlord did not shoot him and replace him.... he patiently waited several years until the lease ran out, and then took over.

My advice would be to spend 6 months on the island getting to know the place, and its people. Try setting a bar up on somewhere like Soi Reggae… lots of locals drink down there and these are the guys who would cover your overhead if you get to know them, and set a bar up that the locals would enjoy. Join the pool league. Get palsy with the locals. Make an effort. The few tourists that also come in would give you a little profit. You wouldn’t make a lot of money probably, but I would guess through the year, 30-70K per month profit would be a good guess and you would defiantly not need to spend anything close to £40,000. In this area, you could take over an established Thai owned bar, pay the rent for a couple years in advance, spend a few quid on improving the place and making it look appealing, throw in a decent pool table all for under a million baht. Some may possibly disagree with this, but I know it can be done. If you don’t like your new venture, you can sell. It may take a long time to find a buyer, but you will eventually, if you tire of it. Selling a bar you invested £15,000 in would be easier than selling a bar you invested £40,000 in.

There is one place for sale in Mango right now. I think its going for around 1.5 million, excluding the rent which would be another 500K for the year, paid in advance. The Ferang guy that owns it right now makes around 50/60K per month (I know this for a fact). But it is a small bar, lots of girls who cause him lots of grief. It would drive you crazy after a while. Much more fun to set up a bar for half the money, that looks ten times better with less hassle. Something like this can be achieved on Soi reggae.

Either way, its not easy and the chances are at some point, you will fall out with your partner. But if you get a few basic points right such as music policy (no crap techno – decent stuff like Chili Peppers, U2, Arctic Monkeys etc), throw in a good pool table, make the place look like a pub as apposed to a crap girly bar and make an effort with the locals, you have a far greater chance.

After a year or two, there is a very good chance you will be bored of it all, and you wont have made very much money. However, you would have had a great time running a bar in the tropics, probably earned enough money to get by and you can always sell it when you have had enough.

The reason many fail at this business owes to any business failure in any country…. They didn’t have a clue, and didn’t get it right. Nothing to do with the island or market forces most of the time. Just bad business practice.

My take is, if you are switched on enough and get it right, you will do ok. You wont make lots of money, but will earn enough to tick over. The chances of failure are slim, if you get it tight.

Beachewale makes some fantastic points. I dont agree with all of them, but by and large a good post.

Either way, good luck mate..... and please try to take advice from people who have actualy lived on Samui and own bars. The best way to achieve that, as i said, is to live on Samui for a while and get to know these people.

[StickKettleOn]

hi ya....

I am a bar owner on samui and cannot believe some of the comments and advice being offered to you!

please feel free to PM me and I will be honest in reply to any of your questions.

please remember that some people who use this forum have had bad experiences on samui or in Thailand in general , and others are still enjoying the lifestyle that living here allows.

It's not for everyone , but some of us enjoy being here and do make a living by working here.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Pompey Nick would be a great bloke to talk to CCC. He has ran a very sucsesful bar on Samui for a few years now. Next time you are there, go and have a beer with the fella. Dont blame him for being a Pompey fan.... he is actualy quite a clued up bloke.

[Pompeynick]

Pompey Nick would be a great bloke to talk to CCC. He has ran a very sucsesful bar on Samui for a few years now. Next time you are there, go and have a beer with the fella. Dont blame him for being a Pompey fan.... he is actualy quite a clued up bloke.

cheers stick!

pop in and have a beer...

[RAZZELL]

SKO, Top post!!! It should be pinned in the business section If you actually look at the bars in Soi Green Mango...How many people are actually buying drinks?...The Bar next to the Swedish one is very busy, and playing good music...But are people spending?

Talk to Pompey Nick, who I met once about 3 years ago when he had his "shack" down at Soi Reggae

... rather than his new place... He, by his own admission didn't have a "pot" when he first came to Samui, but he has now set-up a good business through working-hard and doing something different...eg a non-girly bar in a street of girly-bars.

My BEST advice would be...come to Thailand for 6 months...try to learn a bit of the language...and look and learn

Keep your powder dry

What do you really want to do? Sunbathe on the beach? Shag birds? Do nothing? Well, if you want this, folllow SKO's advice...If you want to make a succesful business ...think long and hard...Good luck and keep us informed.

All the best.

RAZZ

[yabs]

well if you don't or can't see that my suggestion about living of rent is a good one then so be it

but the only succesful people living in asia, ie ones that don't end up going back home after a few years with a broken wallet, heart and future all have some income coming in from home, be it from property or other investments

Thats my early retirement plan. But perhaps its me being a fool and should take my hundreds of thousands of pounds

out of the uk and invest it in a bar in Samui.

How could have I been so foolish to invest in a solid investment like property in the uk

when the gold studded streets of soi mango beckon. Silly me

[sbk]

I am not going to start deleting posts in yet another thread. Clear?

Winding people up and responding with abuse will result in suspensions all around.

[StickKettleOn]

Ok, Yabs.... fair point. Bricks and morter is and always has been one of the better investments. With that in mind, your suggestion was sound.

I dont own propoerty in the UK - regretably. I wish I did. I agree - I would rather live off the income from real estate than run a bar.

That said, this thread is about the pro's and con's of running a bar and not various income schemes to enable one to live in LOS.

Was simply poking a bit of fun, thats all.

[yabs]

My point is that if Op is going to throw his life away in the uk for a new one in "paradise" he needs

to think very very carefully about it especailly with the bar option.

owning a bar is risky business anywhere let alone thailand but if all else failed at least rent from the uk

could help those dry months. putting all your investment and future income in a bar in thailand

is no better than gambling it all at a casino in my opinion.

And if it all goes wrong and he has to move back to the uk then the gap on the cv can be hard toi explain.

it would be even harder to go back with no property to live in.

the Uk sucks but if you do HAVE to go back at some point its nice not to burn all bridges

sure some people do well and good luck to them but most don't and if itsd a girly bar the you will defo have to pay off the police.

I'm going what some would call sensible others maybe boring route

i work offshore and get 5 weeks off every 5 weeks so can live where i want for those 5 weeks.

I also have two properties back in the uk which i rent out

hopefully in the next few years I can rent them out with no mortgage and live of the rent

There are other ways other than gambling everything on a bar to live in LOS

and going on holiday there and living and doing business there are two different things.

[RAZZELL]

My point is that if Op is going to throw his life away in the uk for a new one in "paradise" he needs

to think very very carefully about it especailly with the bar option.

owning a bar is risky business anywhere let alone thailand but if all else failed at least rent from the uk

could help those dry months. putting all your investment and future income in a bar in thailand

is no better than gambling it all at a casino in my opinion.

And if it all goes wrong and he has to move back to the uk then the gap on the cv can be hard toi explain.

it would be even harder to go back with no property to live in.

the Uk sucks but if you do HAVE to go back at some point its nice not to burn all bridges

sure some people do well and good luck to them but most don't and if itsd a girly bar the you will defo have to pay off the police.

I'm going what some would call sensible others maybe boring route

i work offshore and get 5 weeks off every 5 weeks so can live where i want for those 5 weeks.

I also have two properties back in the uk which i rent out

hopefully in the next few years I can rent them out with no mortgage and live of the rent

There are other ways other than gambling everything on a bar to live in LOS

and going on holiday there and living and doing business there are two different things.

You've made your point But life isn't always about being sensible is it?

What about the OP tries this? He get's his £40k, puts £15-20k down on a flat/house, rents it, then tries the bar idea with what's left? That way, he has an escape back home...

The "gap in the CV" is easy to fill..."I started a small business (bar) in Thailand and gained transferable business skills which would greatly benefit any future employer etc etc etc"

Problem solved, he has a go at a "new life" in Thailand and has a property in the UK, (which is hopefully going up in price).

RAZZ

Edited February 25, 2007 by RAZZELL

[yabs]

good advice

life isn't about being sensible

but itsa not about just being plain stupid either

burning all bridges in the uk for a life under the palm trees

with all the eggs in a bar is plain stupid in my opinion

[StickKettleOn]

Honestly, genuinley and truly..... The police angle is false. I would not blame anyone for suggesting this, as you often hear people talk about mafia/police corruption and bars and the rumour begins. But honestly, it just is not true of Samui. Other areas of Thailand, maybe. But not Ferang bars on Samui.

You may be thinking of Go Go bars on Samui. I do not know this as 100% fact, but I believe that the few Go Go bars involve certain 'powers that be' - in terms of recieving a cut for turning a blind eye to a business that is technicaly illegal. That said, there are no heavy dudes knocking on the doors of these places making threats... it is what it is; a simple 'cut', and only applies to the Go Go bars.

Bangkok could be described as different to Samui. Take the bars of Soi 4, Bangkok. The 'powers that be' recieve a back hander every month, usualy based on number of pool tables, or number of girls. If this back hander was not paid, no one is going to create a violent response by trashing the bar, or beating people up.... it would simply mean tht the bar would be visited daily and the slightest (and i mean slightest) illegality would be picked out. For example, whilst all the other bars often remain open way past legal closing time, you can be sure that the bar that does not 'cooporate' will be made to close not 1 minute past closing time.

And also to be fair - I agree about not putting every single penny into a bar in LOS. Leaving no financial sources to fall back on would be a massive gamble. However, we do not know that the OP has not already thought if this. He may not be throwing his life away for Samui.... he may have left a few quid stashed away in the Uk and brought enough with him to gamble on making a bar. I hope he has.

There are indeed other ways to earn a crust in LOS. If the OP has not already thought of this, he should. This is why it is a good idea to spend 6 months or so on the island before commiting. After that time, if he still feels it is a good idea then best of luck to him. Running a bar on Samui is not as rosey as many may think, but it is good fun and another experience. Again, good luck to him if he goes ahead with it.

[southwest19]

hi ya....

I am a bar owner on samui and cannot believe some of the comments and advice being offered to you!

please feel free to PM me and I will be honest in reply to any of your questions.

please remember that some people who use this forum have had bad experiences on samui or in Thailand in general , and others are still enjoying the lifestyle that living here allows.

It's not for everyone , but some of us enjoy being here and do make a living by working here.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

I have posted some negative comments on this thread basically all i am trying to say is before you jump in do your research.

You cannot go far wrong by speaking to Pompey Nick who does run a successful bar on Samui sorry Nick for being a little one dimensional with my previous posts!

[yabs]

again maybe i'm too sensible

but the only thing i would even consider doing in thailand is too work for an international company.

either that or a bit of english teaching to top up rental income.

You may be right about samui but i know for a fact that in Phuket all girlie bars not just goo go bars but the beer bars as well have to pay a bribe to police as prostitution is actually illegal in LOS believe it or not. I also know that in Phuket

there are some very very unsavoury falangs themselves who own the bars. Criminals and gangsters

do own bars and will think nothing of having another bar owner done over if they end up being too succesful.

bars and nightlife industry is a murky world anywhere let alone in LOS.

Again i would only do it if you had an original idea to get a niche.

Ok i admit most of my experience is with phuket but i'm sure the situation can not be too much different on samui.

I've certainly heard from a lot of people that Samui does have a lot of Thai mafia

[StickKettleOn]

I guess its just a personal thing. Some people would hate it, others love it.

There is a lot of mafia on Samui - but they honestly have bugger all to do with your everyday ferang bar. With the exeption of one or two people, by and large the Samui mafia are pretty ok people. I know one of them personaly (many or most ferang that live on Samui probably knows at least one of these guys) and he is a nice, respectfull guy. Very aproachable and good to natter with.

I hate to use the term 'mafia'. I like to think of them more as powerfull business people that you dont mess with. Others may say different, but my experience with these guys is that they have virtualy nothing to do with Ferang and they strike me as decent people. JMHO.

[SamuiJens]

Corruption IS alive and doing well in at least 3 bars I know of, personally.

[OlRedEyes]

To the OP:

I cannot pray for you coz I like don't believe in a god, but I'll ask every Christian - of every stripe - and every Muslim, Hindu etc. I know to pray for you. My wife will go make merit for you at the temple, if she can find it.

[sbk]

Wouldn't you say that these same conditions exist everywhere in Thailand where one would want to open a bar? Why single out Samui as a den of corruption?

My understanding, at least from those in the know here on Koh P, is if you are running a bar without girls you won't be hit up for the monthly payment. If you are running anything remotely dodgy, then expect to pay.

[SamuiJens]

Wouldn't you say that these same conditions exist everywhere in Thailand where one would want to open a bar? Why single out Samui as a den of corruption?

My understanding, at least from those in the know here on Koh P, is if you are running a bar without girls you won't be hit up for the monthly payment. If you are running anything remotely dodgy, then expect to pay.

No girls (prostitutes) working the bars I'm talking about, nor any dodgy things except live music in 2 of them. But agree, happens in other Thai tourist places, BUT, does that make it alright???

[RAZZELL]

You may be right about samui but i know for a fact that in Phuket all girlie bars not just goo go bars but the beer bars as well have to pay a bribe to police as prostitution is actually illegal in LOS believe it or not.

Every single bar in Phuket? What a load of <deleted>

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

but the only thing i would even consider doing in thailand is too work for an international company.

either that or a bit of english teaching to top up rental income.

In an ideal world everyone would like to be on a big, fat, ex-pat package with 3 months holiday...But the world ain't ideal and most people don't have that option...

RAZZ

[yabs]

in todays world EVERYONE has that option

it just takes some work to achieve

[sbk]

Lets keep it ON TOPIC without flaming or abuse please.

[Beachedwhale]

Wouldn't you say that these same conditions exist everywhere in Thailand where one would want to open a bar? Why single out Samui as a den of corruption?

My understanding, at least from those in the know here on Koh P, is if you are running a bar without girls you won't be hit up for the monthly payment. If you are running anything remotely dodgy, then expect to pay.

No girls (prostitutes) working the bars I'm talking about, nor any dodgy things except live music in 2 of them. But agree, happens in other Thai tourist places, BUT, does that make it alright???

I have had a bar here for a few years and have never paid the police off and never even been approached - other than giving them a coffee one time when they came in to talk about a fight that happened between some customers which resulted in some damage to my place. They did ask me to include a slice / commission in the bill that I presented to the customer for the damage - to cover their services in getting him to pay up (but paying commission in Thailand is extremely common and I would suggest you latch on to it as an early way to make some extra cash as well)

The girl issue could be a reason and also live music could be a reason - as you are supposed to get a license for live music and that license is only allowed to be issued in certain areas - such as Chaweng and Bophut (not sure of the exact boundaries). Outside these areas you can only get a license for a PA. ... plus some people utilise musicians without work permits, which also could incur some fines ( I would recommend never doing this as it is potentially something to get you jail time, or even kicked out of the country)

Also, I believe that too many people are quick to bring out the wallet when it is not necessary. If I went up to a stranger and was asking him questions about his license and things just to see if he was legitimate and he pulls out his wallet to offer me some cash - would I take it? (probably yes.). My view is do not pay anyone unless you have exhausted all discussions - certainly do not pay any "instant fines" as there is no record of it and they will be back next month to collect more. The people you need to pay promptly are your staff and suppliers, because if you get on the wrong side of them, that is when trouble starts.

[StickKettleOn]

Re: Beachedwale's post; CCC, I hope this clears it up for you once and for all. If anyone ever suggests that police and mafia need to be greased in running a Samui bar, they are ill informed.

Police may be paid off to alow venues to play live music, remain open late after hours, etc etc etc. Jens may (or may not, i dont know) be aware of three bars that have to pay small backhanders simmilar to this. Pretty standard stuff, if thats the case, and nothing for a new bar owner to worry about.

My question to Jens, in good faith, would be this; these bars that you mention... Are they paying small backhanders so the police turn a blind eye to something, or is it a case of police/mafia making threats and stitching them up for money? I suspect the bars you mention are just paying simple backhanders in order to get away with certain things?

Slighlty off topic - but i have heard a few times over the years, that Ko Tao is quite the opposite from Samui - a couple of small time mafia bullies causing problems with bar and restraunt owners, demanding money with menace. I remember hearing of a few pretty shity incidents involving inocent bar owners over there. Can anyone confirm if this is true of Ko Tao?

[yabs]

Ok well sounds like Samui is an anomoly in Thailand where bribes and kickbacks don't need to be paid.

Strange as phuket, pattaya, bangkok its standrad procedure

i still wouldn't recommend it though

mugs game in my opinion and it all helps ruin the places we like.

usual story is this

person goes to thailand falls in love with it, wants to stay and only thing he/she can think of is to open a bar.

never owned one before but who cares. Before you know it 1000s more falang start doing the same thing

and a new Pattaya or Chaweng is born and all because some selfish and unoriginal people can't be bothered

to go home.

I on the other hand work like a dog for 6 months so i can relax in paradise for the other 6 months only to find

a load of falang have turned my paradise into costa del sol type resort with a load of cr*ppy bars

sad but true

However Op sounds different, sounds like he knows the business so his bar may actually be quite good with some good music. My advice mate is to keep the bar rustic and not commercial ie not a concrete and flashy sign monstrosity, but play some decent dance/chill out music in a rustic/tropical ambience and then I think yoiu may find your niche.

[womble]

Ok well sounds like Samui is an anomoly in Thailand where bribes and kickbacks don't need to be paid.

Strange as phuket, pattaya, bangkok its standrad procedure

i still wouldn't recommend it though

mugs game in my opinion and it all helps ruin the places we like.

usual story is this

person goes to thailand falls in love with it, wants to stay and only thing he/she can think of is to open a bar.

never owned one before but who cares. Before you know it 1000s more falang start doing the same thing

and a new Pattaya or Chaweng is born and all because some selfish and unoriginal people can't be bothered

to go home.

I on the other hand work like a dog for 6 months so i can relax in paradise for the other 6 months only to find

a load of falang have turned my paradise into costa del sol type resort with a load of cr*ppy bars

sad but true

However Op sounds different, sounds like he knows the business so his bar may actually be quite good with some good music. My advice mate is to keep the bar rustic and not commercial ie not a concrete and flashy sign monstrosity, but play some decent dance/chill out music in a rustic/tropical ambience and then I think yoiu may find your niche.

Why would anyone want your advise, you know absolutley nothing of use whatsoever to anyone wishing to run a bar. Your previous posts have said quite strongly that owning a bar is a mugs game, suddenly now your dishing out advise. And your so called niche of a rustic ambient chill out bar is far from niche, infact it's quite possibly one of the most common types of bars here.

Phuket and Bangkok are no different to Samui, you do not have to pay mafia or police there eigher. All over Thailand you only pay police if you want them to ignore certain illegal acts you are commiting, you do not need to pay them if you operate totally within the law.

Lots of bars do pay police to stay open late or have musicians play without work permits I have never heard of anyone ever paying mafia though.

[sbk]

Lets try to keep this ON TOPIC with INFORMED OPINIONS please

[StickKettleOn]

Ok well sounds like Samui is an anomoly in Thailand where bribes and kickbacks don't need to be paid.

Glad we agree.

Strange as phuket, pattaya, bangkok its standrad procedure

It is not standard procedure, but it is common in certain bar types.

i still wouldn't recommend it though

I would. Its a fantastic laugh - the whole concept is a little adventure and can be good fun. Getting it right will return a modest living and you can always sell the place when you tire of it. Its not quite as simple as that, but if you have an ounce of inteligence, it should be.

mugs game in my opinion and it all helps ruin the places we like.

Some may say a mugs game is teaching (i recal you suggesting teaching a few posts back?). I would advise against teaching but i wouldnt call it a mugs game as that would not be nice to the guys who are doing it. Teaching to me is a low paid job with little fun and little future, especialy in the current climate. Running a bar can be good fun, you are completley your own boss.

As for 'ruining the places we like'.... let me put this to you; I will talk about 'chavs' as you have brought this up a few times. Take a look around at the bars in any tourist haunt. You will notice that most of the dickheads making complete <deleted> of themselves are in the Thai owned girly bars. Jumping up on the bar, dancing on the pole, picking the birds up and spinning them around, puking in the corner etc etc. Now, for me, this doesnt bother me too much. I dont judge. Its not my business. However, rarley will you see guys like this in the ferang owned bars. Walk in to any ferang owned bar on Ko Samui and i would say at least 90% of the time you will find a group of ferangs, many of them ex-pats or long term tourists, just sitting around the bar having a few beers and a chat, playing pool, having a laugh and generaly not pissing anyone off. I just paused to think of several ferang owned bars in ko samui, and i pictured that exact scene.

I will mention one bar as the bar owner has posted on this thread. The PFC. Bloody big bar right on Soi Regea. Just full of blokes (sometimes whole fammilies) talking, drinking, chatting, playing pool, reading the paper etc etc. How could a bar like this, and many others simmilar, 'ruin' a place? (I dont know the name of Beachedwale's bar, but i bet it is not too disimmilar.) Many of the Thai owned bars surrounding this bar are full of the chavs that you mention.... but rarely will you see them in ferang owned bars; the set up of most of the ferang owned bars does not apeal to the chav demographic that you talk about. They want loud bars full of birds playing techno and a few games of connect 4. Ferang owned bars, rarely, are like this. The truth is that ferang bar owners come to areas of LOS that already have an established nightlife. A few more bars catering for long term tourists and ex pats if anything, help improve the area. I completley disagree that ferangs setting up bars in already long established tourist areas are a bad thing.

usual story is this

person goes to thailand falls in love with it, wants to stay and only thing he/she can think of is to open a bar.

That is because there are not too many choices. Restraunt game?... Big gamble, tough to get right. Hotel business?.... Very, very expensive, requires tons of capital and experience. Internet cafe?.... Low revenues. Hardly enough to live. Scuba diving?.... massive competetion. Running a bar?.... Easy to set up, low capital, no rocket science involved, you can sell up when you have had enough.

never owned one before but who cares.

No one does care. And why should they? Setting a bar up in your home country with zero experience would be very hard. In LOS?.... Take over an established bar, use your imagination in renovation, fill a fridge full of beer and employ staff who know how to make cocktails. No experience required. You will make many mistakes along the way, but in just 3 months you will be on top of it all.

Before you know it 1000s more falang start doing the same thing

and a new Pattaya or Chaweng is born

Possibly one of the most over the top exagerations I have heard, ever. And anyway, as i said, ferang bar owners set up shop in areas already established, such as Chaweng and Pattaya.

and all because some selfish and unoriginal people can't be bothered

to go home.

Thats not very nice now is it? Who are you to judge the paths people take? I would not blame anyone for wishing to stay in the tropics. Why on earth would you cast a negative light on anyone who does not want to go home? If they get it wrong and it fails, thats there lookout. But please do not judge people for wishing to 'have a go' and improve the quality of there life.

I on the other hand work like a dog for 6 months so i can relax in paradise for the other 6 months

Good for you. Seriously, good for you. Thats is also another option to consider, 6 on 6 off. Nothing wrong with that and many do so.

only to find

a load of falang have turned my paradise into costa del sol type resort with a load of cr*ppy bars

Again, read my response above. Tourist areas are established by the Thais. Another exageration.

My advice mate is to keep the bar rustic and not commercial ie not a concrete and flashy sign monstrosity, but play some decent dance/chill out music in a rustic/tropical ambience and then I think yoiu may find your niche.

In my opinion, this is not very sound advice. A niche venue playing chill out music will not produce many punters. Been tried many times. Always fails. You have to target the core demographic, and the chill out ambient folk are not it. Build a nice looking pob, find cheery service staff, throw in a nice pool table, encourage the locals to drink there and hope that you get a couple of tourists stroll in and you should be ok.

Yabs - i hope it does not seem that i am picking an argument with you. I can assure you I am not. I have made a big effort to try and agree with at least some of your points but i just cant. Your thoughts and logic seem so wrong, unqualified and ill percieved. I just cant help but disagree with you on so many levels mate. Again, im not looking for another argument here, so shall we just leave it that we both disagree? Its obvious we both have different views so best not to go around in circles and create another 20 page thread.

Cheers

SKO.

[yabs]

I agree with you to a certain extent but most establishments are mostly half owned by falang

not all but a good percentage. Certainly in a lot of areas i used to like the thai rustc places

ie restaurants serving good thai food etc all thai owned and other rustic non girlie bar bars all thai owned

have then been taken down to make way for a far more commercial concrete neon sign establishment

which is almost always owned by a falang in tow as thais down't normally have the money for these big flashy places

so forgive me if i'm against Falang buying up places. Koh Chang, Phuket Koh lanta and in some places Samui have all been victim to this. Of course you get the odd foreigner with good taste who makes a bar that doesn't look out of keeping with the thai tropical vibe but usually it goes all too commercial as said falang gets greedy and just sees

his new life in the tropics as a way to get "rich" rather than just a way to have a nice life in the sun.

there is a phrase that tourism destroys what it sets out to seek but maybe I am going off on a tangent and away from the subject