Rebuilding air flow sensor: possible?

[ClareQuilty]

My Peugeot 405 has - according to several different mechanics - a bad mass air flow sensor. After many cleanings it still doesn't work, and the car's driveability is poor despite an otherwise very sound engine. We've checked both in Thailand and overseas, and there is no replacement part available in the world. It is also apparently impossible to jury-rig a Toyota or other brand's MAF. 

 

My question is this - would there be any way to *rebuild* the mass air flow sensor? 

[transam]

I would suggest you can buy near every part for near every car...

[ClareQuilty]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

I would suggest you can buy near every part for near every car...

If only it were so! I can only go by the various mechanic's insistence that the part is unavailable, and my own Googling (zero results). 

[ClareQuilty]

Given that the Toyota engine transplant will cost at least 40,000, I would pay a large amount this MAF. Certainly up to 10,000.

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, ClareQuilty said:

Given that the Toyota engine transplant will cost at least 40,000, I would pay a large amount this MAF. Certainly up to 10,000.

As Tran's alluded to an AFM should be available maybe not thru' Peugeot thereselves then an indy supplier .. Checked on e*ay just now for you dude and if its the same as the one in the photo they are available .. The one in question is shipping out of U K though I suspect the p & p would be a bit more sending to Thailand .. There is another shipping outta the U S at £117 but that may be subject to duties n' stuff .. its rarely successful trying to overhaul 'em .. And trying to chuck a Toyota lump into a Peugeot will throw up numerous problems .. 

[ClareQuilty]

21 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

AChecked on e*ay just now for you dude and if its the same as the one in the photo they are available .. The one in question is shipping out of U K though I suspect the p & p would be a bit more sending to Thailand .. There is another shipping outta the U S at £117 but that may be subject to duties n' stuff .. its rarely successful trying to overhaul 'em .. And trying to chuck a Toyota lump into a Peugeot will throw up numerous problems .. 

Thanks for the info! Looks like it will be 10,000 baht+, if available. Given that a Japanese one is 1,500 baht, these must be super rare. 

[transam]

11 hours ago, ClareQuilty said:

Thanks for the info! Looks like it will be 10,000 baht+, if available. Given that a Japanese one is 1,500 baht, these must be super rare. 

I think they are just an expensive item..I recall I had ploblems with the same item on my V6 Volvo that l kept fooling with cos of the cost..

[ClareQuilty]

8 hours ago, transam said:

I think they are just an expensive item..I recall I had ploblems with the same item on my V6 Volvo that l kept fooling with cos of the cost..

I see. By "fooling with" do you mean there's NY alternative fixes, or even partial fixes? The car is almost drivable as it is, just hate that awful momentary cut-out during acceleration. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

30 minutes ago, ClareQuilty said:

I see. By "fooling with" do you mean there's NY alternative fixes, or even partial fixes? The car is almost drivable as it is, just hate that awful momentary cut-out during acceleration. 

I had the same symptoms as you and at first I thought it was a faulty camshaft timing sensor, but after a lot of trouble shooting it actually turned out to be the airflow mass meter, cost was about 20,000 baht.

Interesting, if the airflow meter was disconnected the car defaulted to a "no signal" mode what made the car run normal, but according to the mechanic would give higher fuel consumption. You could try just to disconnect the faulty airflow sensor.

You are 100% sure it is the airflow sensor?

[ClareQuilty]

I found these, now to find some one returning from UK to bring the part: https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/mass-air-flow-sensor/peugeot-405/m-bosch

[ClareQuilty]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Interesting, if the airflow meter was disconnected the car defaulted to a "no signal" mode what made the car run normal, but according to the mechanic would give higher fuel consumption. You could try just to disconnect the faulty airflow sensor.

You are 100% sure it is the airflow sensor?

I'm not sure, but the mechanics are very sure, such as they are. 3 separate opinions. We did try disconnecting for a couple weeks recently, but the car didn't run very well and used a lot of fuel. 

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, ClareQuilty said:

I'm not sure, but the mechanics are very sure, such as they are. 3 separate opinions. We did try disconnecting for a couple weeks recently, but the car didn't run very well and used a lot of fuel. 

If this is a vane and potentiometer flow sensor it can be tested for smooth operation using a simple multimeter which I assume your repair guy has done already.  Calibration check would require service book values.

 

Cleaning of the potentiometer mechanism is a delicate operation that usually begins with checking condition of the wiper and resistor surface. Damaged resistor or wiper usually means replace complete module but a good technician can sometimes shift the potentiometer wiper to avoid damaged area.

Heavy handed cleaning can shift the factory calibration.

[ClareQuilty]

8 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

If this is a vane and potentiometer flow sensor it can be tested for smooth operation using a simple multimeter which I assume your repair guy has done already.  Calibration check would require service book values.

 

Cleaning of the potentiometer mechanism is a delicate operation that usually begins with checking condition of the wiper and resistor surface. Damaged resistor or wiper usually means replace complete module but a good technician can sometimes shift the potentiometer wiper to avoid damaged area.

Heavy handed cleaning can shift the factory calibration.

Thanks. I don't know what type it is (it's on the 2.0 liter Xu10 engine). But I do suspect that the previous mechanics could have cleaned it improperly, as their skill level seemed very low. 

As of this moment the latest guy still has the car, saying he would attempt to repair the MAF, but that it would take "a long time". Meanwhile, I've located a friend returning from UK next month so will attempt to find a Bosch aftermarket one.

[ClareQuilty]

On 7/23/2018 at 8:07 AM, ClareQuilty said:

 

I went back to get the part number for MAF and photos from mechanic, and he had something to show me - said he'd detected a short circuit in the MAF's solenoid. He suggested replacing this cheap part before getting a 6000+ baht aftermarket MAF from Europe. So, tomorrow is the big day - I'll go back to see if it worked. Don't know how likely his theory is.. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by ClareQuilty

[ClareQuilty]

Updating this problem:

My friend in UK has searched there, and discovered the part is not available in UK or France. 

Unless anyone might have a suggestion of a way to repair or bypass the existing MAF sensor, the car will probably need to be sent to the junkyard. (I just can't afford the 40k for the dubious Toyota engine installation) 

[Justgrazing]

21 minutes ago, ClareQuilty said:

Updating this problem:

My friend in UK has searched there, and discovered the part is not available in UK or France. 

Unless anyone might have a suggestion of a way to repair or bypass the existing MAF sensor, the car will probably need to be sent to the junkyard. (I just can't afford the 40k for the dubious Toyota engine installation) 

CQ the one I posted days ago on e*ay is still up for sale .. Though it ain't shipping until 14th next mth and at £250 a bit salty but ...

Its also not uncommon for components like this to be used by other manufacturers so get all the relevant details and cross ref to see who else may use it .. There will be a fix for this its just you may have to dig elsewhere .. Its function can't be bypassed as it measures the amount of air drawn into the engine needed for the ECU to calculate fuel release which is why the engine will run like shit if they are not working correctly or unplugged .. 

[ClareQuilty]

1 hour ago, Justgrazing said:

CQ the one I posted days ago on e*ay is still up for sale .. Though it ain't shipping until 14th next mth and at £250 a bit salty but ...

Its also not uncommon for components like this to be used by other manufacturers so get all the relevant details and cross ref to see who else may use it .. There will be a fix for this its just you may have to dig elsewhere .. Its function can't be bypassed as it measures the amount of air drawn into the engine needed for the ECU to calculate fuel release which is why the engine will run like shit if they are not working correctly or unplugged .. 

Thanks for the response - I just have no way of knowing the part on Ebay is 1) the right part, and 2) actually in working condition, so it seems like a huge risk given the price. But I suppose we can infer from the high price that these are exceedingly rare items & unavailable from actual suppliers. By the same reasoning one might jump to the conclusion I could get a few baht from the junkyard for parting out my car, but I know it won't work that way. Still, it'd save me money if I just drove it into the river. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by ClareQuilty

[transam]

https://www.autopartspro.co.uk/peugeot-405-carparts

https://www.buycarparts.co.uk/peugeot-405

https://www.breakeryard.com/car-parts/peugeot/405

 

There are many more to look at...

[canthai55]

Peugeot did not make the MAF, a contractor did

Do you have a service manual for the car ?

 

 

[Just Weird]

7 hours ago, ClareQuilty said:

Thanks for the response - I just have no way of knowing the part on Ebay is 1) the right part, and 2) actually in working condition, so it seems like a huge risk given the price. 

1)  Send the seller a message specifically asking if the part is the correct part as he describes it.

2) Ask him specifically if it is new and functioning normally.

 

If the answer to both of those questions is affirmative you are protected by eBay and if the part is wrongly described or not working properly eBay will give you a full refund.

 

The item is available on a "make an offer" basis; make an offer, you may get it cheaper than is being asked if it isn't selling.

 

There is no financial risk to you.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Just Weird

[transam]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Peugeot did not make the MAF, a contractor did

Do you have a service manual for the car ?

 

 

The UK Peugeot breakers yard would be my first port of call.

Many parts for any ride will be made by others but supplied by the rides spare parts bin...

[Just Weird]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

The UK Peugeot breakers yard would be my first port of call.

Many parts for any ride will be made by others but supplied by the rides spare parts bin...

Isn't he in Bangkok?

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Isn't he in Bangkok?

Well I thought he had a chum going to the UK....?

[ClareQuilty]

6 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Peugeot did not make the MAF, a contractor did

Do you have a service manual for the car ?

 

 

No manual. Just an old car I picked up super cheap from a local a couple of years ago. Engine, transmission, suspension all sound and strong, but like most cars - the electronics are its undoing. 

BTW to those who assumed I'm in Bangkok - in fact I'm isolated in Isaan. I do see 405s on the road up here, and only about half have Toyota engines. Guess they're just lucky - maybe carbureted models. 

[canthai55]

3 hours ago, ClareQuilty said:

No manual.

In the service manual it will describe, and provide values - to check all components on the car.

Your local mechanics do not have the knowledge

You do not have it either

The service manual will

Want to keep old vehicles running ? This should be your first purchase

[commie]

PM me your car's exact model, year, engine size and VIN number, maybe I'll be able to source the part for you.

Edited August 4, 2018 by commie

[Pepper9187]

On 7/31/2018 at 3:26 PM, ClareQuilty said:

No manual. Just an old car I picked up super cheap from a local a couple of years ago. Engine, transmission, suspension all sound and strong, but like most cars - the electronics are its undoing. 

BTW to those who assumed I'm in Bangkok - in fact I'm isolated in Isaan. I do see 405s on the road up here, and only about half have Toyota engines. Guess they're just lucky - maybe carbureted models. 

Hi,

 

I got access to the servicebox too (i guess that's what you were talking about commie ?) ;

 

Anyway just drop your VIN and i can find your OEM part reference, i found some unbelievable new OEM parts on ebay for my 605 (these parts are no longer produced since 10 years at least).

 

[HAKAPALITA]

Delainair supply the bolt on Units for Jaguar for example, just one of many preferred unit suppliers used by all manufactures worldwide . Dont know if they will respond to the Public though, i called  a Range Rover preferred supplier and was told nice try but we dare not.They were very expensive on early Models in Europe then.

[ClareQuilty]

On 7/31/2018 at 9:16 AM, canthai55 said:

 

 

As we're unable to find either the MAF itself or the solenoid that my mechanic thinks is the problem, he's looking into the possibility of replacing the fuel injection and engine management system with a carburetor (he says the computer probably isn't working properly anyway, as he gets no codes on his diagnostics). 

[ClareQuilty]

On 8/6/2018 at 3:38 PM, Pepper9187 said:

Hi,

 

I got access to the servicebox too (i guess that's what you were talking about commie ?) ;

 

Anyway just drop your VIN and i can find your OEM part reference, i found some unbelievable new OEM parts on ebay for my 605 (these parts are no longer produced since 10 years at least).

 

Pepper you are a Peugeot owner - any advice on getting rid of this car? I'm wondering if it has any value "parted out", rather than sent to the crusher. The engine and transmission are in perfect order and strong, hardly any signs of wear, but the electronics are hopeless.