China state media slams Pompeo's Latam warning as 'ignorant and malicious'

[webfact]

China state media slams Pompeo's Latam warning as 'ignorant and malicious'

 

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo speaks to the press before boarding his plane at Mexico City International Airport in Mexico City, Mexico, October 19, 2018. Brendan Smialowski/Pool/via REUTERS

 

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Chinese state media sharply criticised U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Monday after he made comments in Latin America warnings about the risks of seeking Chinese investment.

 

Pompeo was on a Latin America tour at the end of last week, meeting with the heads of state in Panama and Mexico. Pompeo told reporters during the trip that "when China comes calling it's not always to the good of your citizens".

 

"When they show up with deals that seem to be too good to be true it's often the case that they, in fact, are," he said on Thursday in Mexico City, according to comments posted on the U.S. State Department's website.

 

In an editorial on Monday, the state-run China Daily newspaper said Pompeo's comments were "ignorant and malicious" and criticism that its ambitions Belt and Road infrastructure initiative was creating debt traps in other countries was false.

 

President Xi Jinping has been pushing the plan to expand trade corridors along a modern-day Silk Road linking Asia, Europe and Africa, pumping credit into building roads, railways and ports in a trillion-dollar infrastructure initiative.

 

The country is keen to bring Latin American countries on board as well, though the initiative has started to face rising scepticism as some countries, such as Sri Lanka, have become saddled with debt that they had struggled to repay.

 

Pompeo said the United States welcomed competition from China, but criticised a lack of transparency at its state-owned enterprises and what he called "predatory economic activity".

 

In comments made in Panama he said that counties should have their "eyes wide open" when it came to Chinese investment.

 

"It's simply the case that in parts of the world China has invested in ways that have left countries worse off, and that should never be the case," he said.

 

The state-owned Global Times said in a separate editorial on Monday that Pompeo's comments were "disrespectful", adding that the United States was trying to "drive a wedge" between growing Sino-Latin American relations.

 

While the United States has traditionally had strong political clout in the region , China has become a major trade partner for many Latin American countries, including Argentina, Chile and Brazil.

 

"Most countries are disappointed with the U.S. and want to shed themselves of U.S. dependence," the newspaper said ."Latin American countries know how to weigh their interests."

 

(Reporting by Adam Jourdan)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-22

[car720]

I think this guy looks like a mafia boss.

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, car720 said:

I think this guy looks like a mafia boss.

He does, he even sounds like one.

 

Back on topic, the Chinese have used the debt trap to achieve their aims through leverage for centuries, whether it be on the micro level (just ask thousands of South East Asian peasant farmers or their daughters) or on the national level as here (just ask Sri Lanka). So in this case I believe Pompeo is right.

[mikebike]

Aren't they just following the west' s blue print vis a vie the IMF and the World Bank?

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Aren't they just following the west' s blue print vis a vie the IMF and the World Bank?

 

"While the United States has traditionally had strong political clout in the region"

 

The US has its hands around the throat of Latin America.

 

That has been so since the late 19th/early 20th century.

 

It wants to keep it that way.

 

 

[farcanell]

Hypocrite.

 

Bully tactics which do nothing to add value to the lives of Latin Americans, perpetuating the misery it’s past bullying has encouraged.

 

china might be a better alternative for these unfortunates... it could hardly be worse.

 

 

[Morch]

22 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Hypocrite.

 

Bully tactics which do nothing to add value to the lives of Latin Americans, perpetuating the misery it’s past bullying has encouraged.

 

china might be a better alternative for these unfortunates... it could hardly be worse.

 

 

 

"...it could hardly be worse."

 

Oh, I think it certainly could. The US (whether some like to acknowledge it or not) got checks and balances, plus a political culture based on different principals than those prevalent in China.

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

While the United States has traditionally had strong political clout in the region , China has become a major trade partner for many Latin American countries, including Argentina, Chile and Brazil.

The US has traditionally "talked the talk" but not "walked the walk" with Latin America. It offers only sanctions against Latin American nations if they trade with China.   

• “The U.S. is forcing countries in the region to choose between the U.S. and China,” said Margaret Myers, director of the Latin America and the World program at the Inter-American Dialogue. “It’s putting Latin American countries in a very challenging position while at the same time not offering a particularly attractive policy.”
• China, whose demand for raw materials increased during rapid economic growth the past two decades, is already the top trade partner for countries ranging from Brazil, Latin America’s largest economy and the world’s top soybean exporter, to tiny Uruguay.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-latin-america/u-s-china-rivalry-poses-risks-benefits-for-latin-america-idUSKCN1HC0F4

China’s trade with and investment in the region deepened at around the time of the great recession of 2008. Between 2015 and 2019, it plans to invest $250 billion in direct investment in the region and about $500 billion in trade. It’s well on its way: China is already the largest trading partner of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Peru.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/rex-in-latam/552197/

What's in your wallet Mr. America?

[mikebike]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

The US has traditionally "talked the talk" but not "walked the walk" with Latin America. It offers only sanctions against Latin American nations if they trade with China.   

• “The U.S. is forcing countries in the region to choose between the U.S. and China,” said Margaret Myers, director of the Latin America and the World program at the Inter-American Dialogue. “It’s putting Latin American countries in a very challenging position while at the same time not offering a particularly attractive policy.”
• China, whose demand for raw materials increased during rapid economic growth the past two decades, is already the top trade partner for countries ranging from Brazil, Latin America’s largest economy and the world’s top soybean exporter, to tiny Uruguay.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-latin-america/u-s-china-rivalry-poses-risks-benefits-for-latin-america-idUSKCN1HC0F4

China’s trade with and investment in the region deepened at around the time of the great recession of 2008. Between 2015 and 2019, it plans to invest $250 billion in direct investment in the region and about $500 billion in trade. It’s well on its way: China is already the largest trading partner of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Peru.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/rex-in-latam/552197/

What's in your wallet Mr. America?

What's in your wallet Mr. America?

 

Apparently little but threats and a massive military...

[farcanell]

27 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

"...it could hardly be worse."

 

Oh, I think it certainly could. The US (whether some like to acknowledge it or not) got checks and balances, plus a political culture based on different principals than those prevalent in China.

The US used to have checks and balances....

there... that’s better.

 

With an expected 2018 inflation rate of 1.37 million %, we will just have to disagree.

 

edit... oh snap... sorry, it could be worse sticking with the good ole USA, as trump threatens suspension of aid ????... nice

[animalmagic]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Pompeo said the United States welcomed competition from China, but criticised a lack of transparency at its state-owned enterprises and what he called "predatory economic activity".

Probably because America can't afford "predatory economic activity" any more?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

The US used to have checks and balances....

there... that’s better.

 

With an expected 2018 inflation rate of 1.37 million %, we will just have to disagree.

 

edit... oh snap... sorry, it could be worse sticking with the good ole USA, as trump threatens suspension of aid ????... nice

 

Hyperbole is a default resort with some posters. Sad.

 

The US under the Trump administration does see some erosion with regard to checks and balances, yes. To declare them gone is an exaggeration.

[mikebike]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Hyperbole is a default resort with some posters. Sad.

 

The US under the Trump administration does see some erosion with regard to checks and balances, yes. To declare them gone is an exaggeration.

Checks and balances do not seem to be anywhere on the radar of 45's admin. If they are still functioning it is in spite of the current admin, not because of it... 

 

To declare them gone is an exaggeration. To declare them dwindling is fact.

[Brunolem]

Pompeo is not wrong, even though he obviously plays for his team.

 

China is not some kind of Santa Claus coming to drop the goodies at the feet of the poor.

 

China's actions are similar to that of the World Bank, encouraging poor countries to enter in complex projects for which they have little use and which they cannot pay.

 

Never mind, China will bring everything, the raw materials, the qualified workers and will finance the whole project by means of a loan...with interests!

 

This is great for China which thus can sell its overproduction of almost everything, from iron to cement to plastics to..., provide work to its quasi unlimited workforce, and recycle the billions of dollars coming from its export surplus.

 

For the chosen countries on the other hand, things are not so good.

They receive a large amount of money, say 100, out of which 95 will be sent back to China to pay for the supplies and the workers.

Once the project achieved, they will have a high speed train that barely anyone will use, because much more expensive than previously thought, and they will have a debt to service for decades...

 

 

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Checks and balances do not seem to be anywhere on the radar of 45's admin. If they are still functioning it is in spite of the current admin, not because of it... 

 

To declare them gone is an exaggeration. To declare them dwindling is fact.

 

Which is pretty much what I've posted above. And even that said, there's an ongoing high profile state-sponsored investigation into matters uncomfortable to the administration, members of the administration had to resign, and some involved in the President's campaign are going to do time. There were several occasions in which the administrations initiatives or wishes were denied by bi-partisan efforts.

 

So, yeah, the US isn't in a great shape, but even so, it's still much better than the alternative - at least on this score. We're not talking about perfect, here, just better.

[GreasyFingers]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

So, yeah, the US isn't in a great shape, but even so, it's still much better than the alternative - at least on this score. We're not talking about perfect, here, just better.

Everyone to their own opinion.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Everyone to their own opinion.

 

Can this be translated to Chinese?

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Can this be translated to Chinese?

Can you explain better.... when the status quo includes rampant poverty, escalating child mortality, a legacy of US sponsored corruption, and etc?

 

in response... try not to spin “and etc” into your usual deflective rubbish

 

The US response is immediately punitive... Chinese investment offers a glimmer of hope... people dying of malnutrition can be excused for jumping at a glimmer of hope.... even if it’s a daily bowl of rice

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Hyperbole is a default resort with some posters. Sad.

 

The US under the Trump administration does see some erosion with regard to checks and balances, yes. To declare them gone is an exaggeration.

What hyperbole?

 

not on my part, given that hyperbole needs to be intentional... so as far as I’m concerned, it’s a difference of opinion, which you choose to spin, by throwing in fancy words like “hyperbole.”

 

so... sad.... yes... because you choose to use BS as your default position.... lol... deflection and obsfugation, as usual

 

perhaps the checks and balances still exist, but trumps aggressive political ranting, which may be ok domestically... which is arguably (I hope) designed to encourage rednecks to vote for him, have a completely different meaning to non US citizens

 

for those non US citizens, used to truths from their leaders, be it via benign rule (in fully democratic countries, like mine, vs flawed democracies, like the US), or rule .303, ( in despotic countries) it’s scary stuff, especially so for under educated folk, or poorly informed folk, who don’t know he’s the king of lies... compounded by his popularity, making his lies more real to those not understanding US politics (eg... no way are the middle class getting a tax break prior to the midterms)

 

When considering ones international political stance, one should try to address how that might be seen internationally.... trumps America does not seem to be able to do that, whilst immersing itself in MAGA lies.... lies because America is at its peak, facing its potential decline, as it alienates its international support base.

 

[Morch]

38 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Can you explain better.... when the status quo includes rampant poverty, escalating child mortality, a legacy of US sponsored corruption, and etc?

 

in response... try not to spin “and etc” into your usual deflective rubbish

 

The US response is immediately punitive... Chinese investment offers a glimmer of hope... people dying of malnutrition can be excused for jumping at a glimmer of hope.... even if it’s a daily bowl of rice

 

I think we've been through this on previous discussions - you don't get to dictate other posters' responses, surely not in a way tailored to suit your own arguments. As for "rubbish" deflective or otherwise - unless mistaken, the only one who used "etc." in this discussion is you. I can assure you that I have no idea what you meant by "etc.". But then again, it's not even like you've asked a clear question there. pretty routine.

 

The US is not righteous, but trusting China to be better is misguided, at best. The Chinese form of "aid" comes with price - and I believe that there two posts in this topic covering the pitfalls, for the benefit of those living under rocks.

 

I think that given the profile of Chinese involvement, the dramatic "glimmer of hope" relates more to the usual suspects in target countries, who stand to make a nice profit out of it. For the people? Not so much.

 

Could you cite concrete positive effects on local populations' situation, following Chinese involvement in such investment and projects?

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, farcanell said:

What hyperbole?

 

not on my part, given that hyperbole needs to be intentional... so as far as I’m concerned, it’s a difference of opinion, which you choose to spin, by throwing in fancy words like “hyperbole.”

 

so... sad.... yes... because you choose to use BS as your default position.... lol... deflection and obsfugation, as usual

 

perhaps the checks and balances still exist, but trumps aggressive political ranting, which may be ok domestically... which is arguably (I hope) designed to encourage rednecks to vote for him, have a completely different meaning to non US citizens

 

for those non US citizens, used to truths from their leaders, be it via benign rule (in fully democratic countries, like mine, vs flawed democracies, like the US), or rule .303, ( in despotic countries) it’s scary stuff, especially so for under educated folk, or poorly informed folk, who don’t know he’s the king of lies... compounded by his popularity, making his lies more real to those not understanding US politics (eg... no way are the middle class getting a tax break prior to the midterms)

 

When considering ones international political stance, one should try to address how that might be seen internationally.... trumps America does not seem to be able to do that, whilst immersing itself in MAGA lies.... lies because America is at its peak, facing its potential decline, as it alienates its international support base.

 

 

I chose "hyperbole" because that's what it was, your overly personal rant above notwithstanding. You wish to make a more reasoned argument? By all means. As it was posted earlier, it was an apt description.

 

We do not have much argument with regard to Trump's style (or lack of), the damage his so-called policies cause and the overall issues created by his ongoing term in office.

 

I don't know that there's all that much difference between the domestic and foreign negative effects of Trump's Presidency. Inasmuch as such differences exist, I'd venture they got more to do with international systems (organizations, law, treaties, conventions, relations) being less robust than national level ones. And this predates Trump, rather than something created by him.

 

Referring checks and balances includes elections (and as relevant to Trump, ongoing investigations). So while it is tempting to treat the US at present as a constant, this isn't really the case. Trump is no more a permanent fixture than Obama was. Or Bush before him. Or Clinton before that. I do not see Trump as representing an everlasting change in US stance vs. the World. There will be a correction, as is usually the case.

 

[lannarebirth]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Can this be translated to Chinese?

No, it can't.

[nausea]

The US might give up on Asia, they might give up on Europe, they might give up on the Middle East, but there's no way they're gonna give up on Latin America, and rightly so, it's their back yard. A bit of inductive thinking might help them understand where Russia is coming from. As for the Chinese, if I were them I'd concentrate on keeping my immediate house and borders in order. Yeah, maybe we have to eventually give Asia to the Chinese and Indians, it's just logistics, but China a serious force in Latin America, give me a break.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I think we've been through this on previous discussions - you don't get to dictate other posters' responses, surely not in a way tailored to suit your own arguments. As for "rubbish" deflective or otherwise - unless mistaken, the only one who used "etc." in this discussion is you. I can assure you that I have no idea what you meant by "etc.". But then again, it's not even like you've asked a clear question there. pretty routine.

 

The US is not righteous, but trusting China to be better is misguided, at best. The Chinese form of "aid" comes with price - and I believe that there two posts in this topic covering the pitfalls, for the benefit of those living under rocks.

 

I think that given the profile of Chinese involvement, the dramatic "glimmer of hope" relates more to the usual suspects in target countries, who stand to make a nice profit out of it. For the people? Not so much.

 

Could you cite concrete positive effects on local populations' situation, following Chinese involvement in such investment and projects?

But but but.... Ipso facto... neither do you have the right to control the narrative.

 

last time we went round the mulberry bush, you argued that my opinion that some Saudi citizens would get tossed under the bus, was untenable... and yet... we’ll.. y’all seems to have been wrong.... and if memory serves, I asked you a specific question, multiple times, which you refused to answer, preferring deflection, as usual, which begs the question.... why ask you a direct question?

 

that said... I did ask a direct question... assumedly you missed it.... up and down the post we go.... you were condescending to another poster with a differing POV...( not nice), who simply acknowledged the fact the differing opinions exist... then you went Chinese on him... why? Nastiness perhaps? 

 

Now.. that out of the way... let’s look at the rest... lol... I’m winging this after reading your first paragraph... so... trusting China vs Trump.... xI jinping, not only sounds like a cuddly panda, but is a far more statesmanly representative than the don, who presents as a thug, and is using thuggish tactics internationally... domestically, that’s fine, (MAGA,)  but on the international stage... not cool.

 

as to trust... don’t be silly.... who said I trust him? Just for you, I don’t... I accept Chinese expansionism ambitions, only a fool wouldn’t... but I know where he’s coming from, so I can factor that into my opinions, which I cannot say about trump, who is a proven liar.... a despicable manipulative proven liar, and that’s being kind.... ergo.... the cuddly panda, who might tear your throat out, is more credible. Trust no one.... evaluate credibility... trump has none.

 

now... aid... lmao... the US is threatening withdrawing aid, whilst China is offering aid. If this was to someone needing a pack of smokes, ok...,but we’re talking about people who are starving... desperate to survive... suffering immensely under the regime inflicted upon them.... and you dispute that life as a Chinese vassal ( is that it? A Chinese vassal state?) is worse than death by starvation or regime abuse.... me... I’d choose life as a vassal state over starvation.... but hey, whatever floats your boat... but please

know, your boats sinking.

 

then where did you go? Lol... you didn’t... really... a nice profit... lol... the USA has gutted Latin America for profit for 100 years.... what’s left?

 

ill help... strategic advantage... you gotta pay to play, if you want to deny China a strategic advantage, pay the piper... prop up these countries as a part of national defense, in the meanest terms... or aid these countries, in return for raping them sans vaseline

 

What else, for my amusement (I haven’t read your other replies yet, so I’m sure there’s more).... cite something to make your argument... dude... you repetitively admonish me for asking you to cite stuff, claiming it’s not up to you to make my argument, yet here you are, hypocritically asking me to do just that..... how about you tell me how Venezuelans would be worse off with Chinese food on their table, vs no food at all.  

 

Was your reply even a considered reply?.... I’m thinking not... and that you really should consider these replies

 

 

 

[Scouse123]

I think I know one guy at least making all the wrong moves in sucking up to China at his own country's expense. However, he doesn't care, as he has purely self-interest at heart and that is the despot, Hun Sen.

 

I cannot think of a leader that is as bad as him in South East Asia, and that is going some! Cambodia is hard and fast becoming a satellite colony of the Chinese, at the expense of the Cambodian people.

 

He has managed to alienate both the USA and the EU in one swoop, as well as destroying completely any ' mirage ' that there was a democracy. He, because China has offered to fill the void on cheap loans without human rights strings attached,

 

The EU is preparing to withdraw the preferential trade agreement that Cambodia enjoys in the ' Everything but Arms ' package. This will cost Cambodia hundreds and hundreds of millions in trade. Their biggest export being garments. I can't see China wanting that trade when they can make it cheaper themselves.

 

We have a guy who intends to remain in power, no matter what the cost to the Nation's citizens and a ' partner ' that doesn't care about his Human rights abuses.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I chose "hyperbole" because that's what it was, your overly personal rant above notwithstanding. You wish to make a more reasoned argument? By all means. As it was posted earlier, it was an apt description.

 

We do not have much argument with regard to Trump's style (or lack of), the damage his so-called policies cause and the overall issues created by his ongoing term in office.

 

I don't know that there's all that much difference between the domestic and foreign negative effects of Trump's Presidency. Inasmuch as such differences exist, I'd venture they got more to do with international systems (organizations, law, treaties, conventions, relations) being less robust than national level ones. And this predates Trump, rather than something created by him.

 

Referring checks and balances includes elections (and as relevant to Trump, ongoing investigations). So while it is tempting to treat the US at present as a constant, this isn't really the case. Trump is no more a permanent fixture than Obama was. Or Bush before him. Or Clinton before that. I do not see Trump as representing an everlasting change in US stance vs. the World. There will be a correction, as is usually the case.

 

Hyperbole... an exaggeration not meant to be taken literally... dude... take it literally!

 

trump in acting unilaterally... he’s bullying republicans, who know better ( or knew better before he became president,) into doing as he says... that’s despotic autocratic behaviour

 

your (US) valued reputation as a flawed democracy is descending lower on the scale, as I’m sure the 2019 democracy listing will show... obviously this is opinion, as it’s still 2018... but bromances with quasi dictators, or full on dictators, vs intelligent bipartisan dialogue with established and loyal allies, is... well... disturbing (see, I can be nice)

 

now... replying as I read... glad to know your not a full on trumpeter... but... from a different point of view, prior to trump, US politics had very little noticeable “potential” to impact on me... us... the rest of the free world.... so noticeable differences are specifically the instability that trump has created. Instability breeds fear... we are afraid... we relinquished power to the US post WW2, and the US has served the free world rather well... lots of good stuff... big thumbs up... then y’all elected an idiot to the position of commander in chief of the most powerful military force on this planet

 

domestically, he may not be an idiot, but internationally he’s using fear as a weapon... trashing trade deals, calling Canada ( far more cuddly than the Chinese panda) an enemy.... how can we ( the rest of the world) reconcile this, sans lobotomy?

 

re trumps effect on us moving forward... his legacy going forward is something to discuss in ten years vs now.... but right now he’s ripping up trade deals, creating instability, supporting evil empires, ignoring his own intelligence apparatus.... and lying like a bloody champion. In him we put our trust.... in doing so, we deserve a pineapple up the cost, reverse wise, without lubricant ( hopefully by the time the US citizenry has received theres, ours will be smaller)

 

that said... roll on the correction... let it be sooner than later... A25!

[Redline]

There is nothing new here-this is how countries operate-always have

[Tailwagsdog]

Tonga, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Pakistan, Maldives are countries that have gone cold on Chinas' Largesse due to Massive Piles of debt for White Elephants. It would be easy to bribe politicians in developing countries to sign off on a debt trap for their own persinal game. Maybe we need to update the old saying. 'Beware of greeks bearing gifts' which of course has a wonderful historical perspective for those learned ones amongst us.

[car720]

16 hours ago, mikebike said:

Aren't they just following the west' s blue print vis a vie the IMF and the World Bank?

Ah but we are not allowed to talk about those people.  Especially in this forum. 

[Johnnyngai]

A hundred something years ago,

the Europeans practiced gunboat diplomacy in China and the old Chinese said: "no shoot, no shoot"

 

Now the Chinese practices debt instrument diplomacy in developing countries,

and the people there said: "no money, no money"