Suvarnabhumi Airport Is A Firetrap

[Grover]

Steel burns.

steel melts

steel burns. Try touching white hot steel....

[oevna]

Walls - bare concrete, again, inflammable...

I think you probably meant "nonflammable". Strangely, "inflammable" means the same thing as "flamable". Ain't English great?

inflammable

adj : possible to burn [syn: {burnable}, {flammable}, {ignitable},

{ignitible}]

nonflammable

adj : impossible to ignite

Cheers,

-oev

[DrDweeb]

IIRC the "ceiling" of glass is actually covered largely by a sail material, which is more than likely flammable, and would fall on people, who are also flammable, as is the stock of King Power, and most of the commercial structures.

If it catches fire, especially a blaze sourced in the departure commercial area (a very likely starting point) there will be a conflagration - do not doubt this for a second.

[Grover]

I've just been googling about and haven't found any burnt concrete cases; it certainly looks like the end of that story. Perhaps this chap, the one who told me, ought to get his college money back

[Scott]

Singapore airport is carpeted and I think it's almost fully carpeted.

I am having a little trouble with some of the posts on this thread. People seem to be implying that it's perfectly OK to block the fire exits since there isn't anything in there that can burn.

Well, there are a lot of reasons why people might need to exit quickly....let me see, a bomb, a bomb threat, a small fire (with ensuing panic and 1,000 people trying to get out the revolving doors), an airplane accident etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and let me see, there are always those famous electrical fires that the country is very well known for--and I think I read somewhere that there are problems with the wiring and A/C at the airport.

I think all this adds up to needing fire exits that are accessible. And hopefully never needed.

[scratt]

Baggage, clothing, people, carboard boxes, shop signs, shelving, lighting, cables etc. etc.

They all burn.

And what with the problems in the South I think having some exits that are UNLOCKED, and a little common sense is probably advisable.

[ovenman]

What airport in the world is carpeted?

Changi. I'm pretty sure that Penang is carpeted, too.

[ercorn]

The main revolving doors are usually closed and when they are open I can hardly get my trolley threw I can t imagine what it would be like if 2000 people were trying to get threw them while escaping a fire

[KK-Mike]

I've just been googling about and haven't found any burnt concrete cases; it certainly looks like the end of that story. Perhaps this chap, the one who told me, ought to get his college money back

The reason concrete explodes is as it gets hot the air trapped inside the concrete expands and the concrete blows apart.

[Spowser]

It reminds me of the Pattaya hotel fire of a few years ago; the fire exits were discovered to have been padlocked to prevent runners on the bills. (Anyone know if victims' families were compensated and how the hotel owners fared after that? And is it now enforced, that emergency exits always be open?)

Safety awareness and training does not seem to be a high priority for Thai facility managers.

[thaimat]

It seems the mechanism is already in place to simply change whatever laws and codes are being offended by the airport to bring it into compliance. Coin operated turnstile type fire exits instead of card locks would make possible an occaisional revenue squirt also. Keeping a currency exchange booth close by would assure smooth and orderly exits in the event of an emergecy.

In addition to the coin operated turnstyles and currency exchange booth, there'd have to be an immigration/customs desk for international travelers in transit in order to give them visas before they can leave the building in case of fire. Imagine that cue! Probably shoudl be some additional luxury item shops, (placed in front of the fire exits), for the quality tourists who apparently don't care about creature comforts like toilets, don't care about airport safety, only need to have immediate access to expensive purses and watches. A booth selling tickets to Thailand's amazing theme parks and family entertainment venues would be prudent, as these families, coming from other parts of the world (like USA and Europe) where such things don't exist, are certainly coming here for such high quality attractions. A few cops to give citations for unknown offenses, the fine payed immediately in cash to save on paperwork and bueaucratic overhead, would give the international tourist who's simply passing thru, a taste of Thailand as well.

[taxexile]

Coin operated turnstile type fire exits .

thais 5b , tourists 20b.

[jumnien]

Henny penny the sky is falling! First we're all going to die upon landing in the "cracks" and then our bodies will be automatically incinerated in the terminal inferno! If someone were seriously worried about safety at the new airport, where would they be going when they left the airport - to the expressway in a taxi? Bangkok motorcycle taxi? Island boat shuttle? Pattaya transvestite? Pattaya condo with windows (very dangerous for farang)? Overeating and drinking on Sukhumvit?

It seems odd to come to the land of smiles if one is inordinately risk adverse.

[jaapfries]

Anyone knows smoke can kill you, but the cubic volume of air in there means it would need to be something big to fill it with smoke. A kitchen fire or an electrical panel wouldn't hardly make a dent in that volume.

What airport in the world is carpeted?

==========================

You've obviously never been to Singapore, Vancouver, Chicago, Sidney, Auckland, or any major airport in the Middle East ? ? ! !

You also obviously know very little about toxicity: it doesn;t take much to create a "cloud" of toxic smoke; which WILL kill very quikcly.

Don't talk about things you have (obviously) no knowledge of.

[h90]

Anyone knows smoke can kill you, but the cubic volume of air in there means it would need to be something big to fill it with smoke. A kitchen fire or an electrical panel wouldn't hardly make a dent in that volume.

What airport in the world is carpeted?

When I arrive they usually put their best red carpet on the floor

[cdnvic]

Don't talk about things you have (obviously) no knowledge of.

Oh pull in your bottom lip, I got it wrong, won't be the last time.

[gentman]

I dont know what is the fuss. All airports are build with safety features. Its just that someone have to train the personnels to use it. Awares on escapes routes. No blockage on escape doors. Of cause for security reasons, doors need to be locked. For safety reasons personnels need to be trained. Thats all.

[farang power]

Anyone knows smoke can kill you, but the cubic volume of air in there means it would need to be something big to fill it with smoke. A kitchen fire or an electrical panel wouldn't hardly make a dent in that volume.

What airport in the world is carpeted?

Singapore airport I.E.

[Virgil]

ACT most certainly IS responsible for design flaws in the terminal building. No matter what the government specifies, professional consultants such as architects and engineers have a duty of care to adhere to the building code and provide safe, serviceable structures that comply with building controls and are FIT FOR PURPOSE. It is criminal to do otherwise.

Virgil, Out!

[HOOD Robin]

Typically a government thing. You approve a design (12 years ago) , you make changes, this government had all the time ton postpone the opening of the airport, they did not do so. They went along with the design (It is a well known Japanese agency, so there is not much reason to doubt them) than you use the toilet space for smoking rooms, and retail space. You lock the exits (bet they will blame the former government for the locked doors today) and than in the end, you create a panel. The panel contains only ass kissers of the goveernment which will always come with a guilty party, and you guess right. That is ALWAYS a foreign party...

500% CORRECT ! I couldn't say it better.....

You know what they have to start with in this country ? Banishing all those masked costumes which are been wearing by almost EVERYBODY ; from security guards over doormen to ministers.... Especially these last ones ! Take away all that shit and dress like normal people, not like circus clowns ! Then MAYBE they gonna do where they are payed for (although i doubt that...).

But i think they really are gonna loose face if they cannot show their suits anymore.... Verry silly !

[HOOD Robin]

It reminds me of the Pattaya hotel fire of a few years ago; the fire exits were discovered to have been padlocked to prevent runners on the bills. (Anyone know if victims' families were compensated and how the hotel owners fared after that? And is it now enforced, that emergency exits always be open?)

Safety awareness and training does not seem to be a high priority for Thai facility managers.

And what about the fire last year in the "brand new" disco 99 on Pattaya's 3rd Road (north) where about 10 people died and many were injured ; and WHY ?? Because all of the fire exits were C L O S E D ! ! ! I still see the pictures that the rescue people were trying to knock down a thick concrete wall with a sledge hammer, and through the opening they created, the victims were taken away, VERY sad to look at !!!!

I wonder if they learned a lesson out of that ???? But as we all know how they handle and think in Thailand, I really doubt it !!!

I really don't want to think in case of a fire in the passanger hall in the new ( what is new ? ) airport......

[Scott]

Coin operated turnstile type fire exits .

thais 5b , tourists 20b.

Oh don't be silly, they won't do that because they don't have a 20 baht coin!

[atwr]

Nobody wants to be on fire or breath toxic fumes*. If it comes to that, hopefully someone will think to pick up a bench and throw it out of one of the thousands upon thousands of windows at the new airport.

I wouldn't know how to get out of any of the airports I've been in if there was an emergency. If you were on fire and you tried running out the door in the US without proper check-out, you'd probably be shot.

There is a new 20 baht coin but it's still under review for approval. The coin will be a perfectly round sphere and the size of a coconut. On one side of the sphere is an image of a white monkey holding a peach while driving a tank, the opposite side has an image of Thaksin Shinawatra having his ass kicked by an elephant. The sphere will be filled with crumpled 1 dollar notes.

*(does not include ghost rider)

[CHAIYES]

Place where there is bound to be hundreds of people packed into a relatively small space, there must be enough clearly marked fire exits.. More people die in a stampede following panic.. It can get very confusing in an airport where 90% of people present at any one time are new to the place.

[seagull]

Singapore airport is carpeted and I think it's almost fully carpeted.

I am having a little trouble with some of the posts on this thread. People seem to be implying that it's perfectly OK to block the fire exits since there isn't anything in there that can burn.

Well, there are a lot of reasons why people might need to exit quickly....let me see, a bomb, a bomb threat, a small fire (with ensuing panic and 1,000 people trying to get out the revolving doors), an airplane accident etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and let me see, there are always those famous electrical fires that the country is very well known for--and I think I read somewhere that there are problems with the wiring and A/C at the airport.

I think all this adds up to needing fire exits that are accessible. And hopefully never needed.

Singapore airport fully carpeted? I did't know that one. As for the "Fire Exit". Maybe should be refitted to call "Emergency Exit" which I think more appropriate.

[seagull]

Coin operated turnstile type fire exits .

thais 5b , tourists 20b.

Oh don't be silly, they won't do that because they don't have a 20 baht coin!

Oh don't be silly, they can always use 2 x 10 baht coins.

[seagull]

Nobody wants to be on fire or breath toxic fumes*. If it comes to that, hopefully someone will think to pick up a bench and throw it out of one of the thousands upon thousands of windows at the new airport.

I wouldn't know how to get out of any of the airports I've been in if there was an emergency. If you were on fire and you tried running out the door in the US without proper check-out, you'd probably be shot.

There is a new 20 baht coin but it's still under review for approval. The coin will be a perfectly round sphere and the size of a coconut. On one side of the sphere is an image of a white monkey holding a peach while driving a tank, the opposite side has an image of Thaksin Shinawatra having his ass kicked by an elephant. The sphere will be filled with crumpled 1 dollar notes.

*(does not include ghost rider)

[hkt83100]

Anyone knows smoke can kill you, but the cubic volume of air in there means it would need to be something big to fill it with smoke. A kitchen fire or an electrical panel wouldn't hardly make a dent in that volume.

What airport in the world is carpeted?

Singapore, at least is was last time when I was there... (roughly 4 years ago)

[Ranjit S Sidhu]

Classic case of back protection and passing the buck. If it was so worrying to him as a designer why wait until now to highlight it? If he is so publi-spirited why didn't he kick up a fuss before the airport, his airport opened? "I only did what I was told!" Sound familiar?

If you go back and read the article again, you'll see that his complaints are not so much about the design as they are about fire exits being blocked or improperly used, nearly all of his concerns come about because of the present way in which the airport is being administered and not the way it was built.

He's neither protecting his back nor passing the buck, he's pointing out that there's poor training and a series of other incompetencies. And he's probably right.

It is great looking airport but like many things in Thailand and in devloping countries the idea of safety does not always come first

[The Snark]

Suvarnabhumi (Scams Are Booming?)

Follow this one. The International Air Carriers Association was aware of deficiencies in the airport even before it was opened. The airport was not certified. So far so good.

One of the criteria to certify an airport is that it meets public safety standards. Fire safety is one of them.

The moment it finally leaked out that fire safety was severely compromised, the airport requested the government to waive fire safety standards on certain issues. This will, of course, mean the airport will never be brought up to standards and never be certified.

As far as the fire safety regulations go, it is not arbitrated by a government. It is not arbitrated by teams of experts. It is not the requirements of the IACA. It isn't even the requirements of a fire or public safety agency. Fire safety regulations are established by ... INSURANCE COMPANIES. No Thailand, no AoT, you can not and will not buck the big boys. The regulations and requirements are set in stone. The simple reason for this is the insurance companies do not like coughing up the big buck because a fire door was locked, or in the case of Scamaboomy, King Power has blocked aisles with displays and stored stock and supplies in stairwells, among other fabulous foibles.

The wonderful attitude some people have expressed, there is nothing to burn, there is lots of room, it looks safe (arson task force trained opinion, no doubt) doesn't fly. Fire safety and related regulations are based on worst case scenarios: Gas cylinder IED's, improperly stored flammable liquids, a simple 'harmless' smoke bomb that sends hundreds of people into a panic.

For the folks who still insist the place is safe, one hard plastic chair made from ABS plastic will generate enough hydrogen cyanide to kill a couple dozen people in an enclosed space, but one example, but the main concern is panic. That is why they have panic bars to open doors, right?

The bottom line is, do it right. No compromise on this one. No debate is valid. If anyone has any doubts, or wishes to debate this issue, ask a trained fire fighter first, or any relevant insurance company.

Edited February 22, 2007 by The Snark