Ahead of vote, UK PM May warns it would be catastrophic to halt Brexit

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

So as I guessed, no real solutions. Just some wild and ideas that you and your mates (all economists and legal experts of course) agreed whilst drinking your 80 baht bottle of chang until you fell off your bar stool.

Unfortunately this is in fact pretty much sums up the Leave campaigns ideas. 

'Leave means leave !!!'

Even if it also means chaos.

555. I'm a remainer. Couldn't find a sarcasm emoji. I was trying to summarise the brexiteer's POV though.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

555. I'm a remainer. Couldn't find a sarcasm emoji.

Sorry. Did think it was quite out there but honestly couldn't tell the difference.

That's how bad it's become.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, baboon said:

Bill, the deal is a good compromise. 'Compromise' being the name of the game given the extremists on both sides will be unhappy no matter what. 

I don't want another referendum. 

I can't agree with a 'Go #### yourself' Brexit. 

I can't agree that the will of the Brexiters should simply be brushed aside. They won.

I can't agree that the will of the Remainers should simply be brushed aside. It was a close vote.

 

Well what now, Bill? Winner takes all? You have your 'Leave' deal. Both sides are unhappy. Why is that not a result? 

Unfortunately the deal, whichever one turns up tonight, is completely out of our hands and in the hands of the politicians.

 

Some have a fixed idea that no deal is better than a bad deal, some are the opposite, many especially those with narrow wins at the last election will be stuck between what they personally want and what their constituents want.

 

I wouldn't put even 25 satang on the outcome of today's vote.

 

The other thing that the Tory MPs are afraid of is if the PM loses and the Labour party wins a vote of "No Confidence" and a general election is called. Voters in constituencies sometimes have long memories and they indulge in the "What have the Romans MP ever done for us".

 

I don't want to see another referendum nor another general election either as IMHO it would do nobody any favours at this time.

 

I can see Teresa May staying on as PM IF she gets her way, or if she doesn't then I think she will quit by the middle of the year. If she does that will open a different can of worms to see who draws the short straw to replace her.

 

As my Mum used to say many years ago. This is a right buggers muddle and no mistake.

 

I would like to say that may the best side win but I don't think that there IS a best side.

 

Have a great day.

[evadgib]

32 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

So as I guessed, no real solutions. Just some wild ideas that you and your mates (all economists and legal experts of course) agreed whilst drinking your 80 baht bottle of chang until you fell off your bar stool.

Unfortunately this is in fact pretty much sums up the Leave campaigns ideas. 

'Leave means leave !!!'

Even if it also means chaos.

I see I wasn't alone in trying to answer your same post in another thread & receiving a similar belligerent reply.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

lI see I wasn't alone in trying to answer this same post in another thread & receiving a similar belligerent reply.

Whooo! Belligerent enough for you?

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

'Leave means leave' blah, blah, blah. 

I've noticed a VERY common denominator with you Leave lot in that you are all up for the brain dead slogans but very short on the ideas of how to handle the immense problems that Brexit has thrown up.

So I'll give you all a chance. Please let me know what YOU would suggest to sort out the following:-

 

1. The Northern Ireland border.

2. Britain's financial obligations to the EU?

3. The EU single market & customs union?

4. The insistence from the EU that entry to the single market/customs union also comes with free movement of EU nationals?

5. The drop in EU immigration's shortfall effect on the NHS, social care and construction?  

6. Security - once EU law has no more effect on the UK, how do you handle things like Europol and the European Arrest Warrants that both require EU law?  

 

That's only 6 of many, many problems.

I'm all ears.

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Spidey said:

1. The Northern Ireland border.

Give N.Ireland back to the Irish (never wanted it anyway)

 

2. Britain's financial obligations to the EU?

Tell 'em to get stuffed (see you in court or hide behind the curtains)

 

3. The EU single market & customs union?

Rock hard Brexit. (Go to WTO rules, why do new care if imports/exports from the UK collapse, it'll only affect the little men)

 

4. The insistence from the EU that entry to the single market/customs union also comes with free movement of EU nationals?

As above.

 

5. The drop in EU immigration's shortfall effect on the NHS, social care and construction?  

Bring in shedloads of Africans (they're coming already).

 

6. Security - once EU law has no more effect on the UK, how do you handle things like Europol and the European Arrest Warrants that both require EU law?

Ahh...good point but there are more foreign criminals coming here than British criminals going abroad.  

 

35 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

So as I guessed, no real solutions. Just some wild ideas that you and your mates (all economists and legal experts of course) agreed whilst drinking your 80 baht bottle of chang until you fell off your bar stool.

Unfortunately this is in fact pretty much sums up the Leave campaigns ideas. 

'Leave means leave !!!'

Even if it also means chaos.

 

33 minutes ago, Spidey said:

555. I'm a remainer. Couldn't find a sarcasm emoji. I was trying to summarise the brexiteer's POV though.

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Sorry. Did think it was quite out there but honestly couldn't tell the difference.

That's how bad it's become.

Only for those that haven't been following these threads for very long.....

 

The rest of us are able to (mostly) recognise whether or not a post is sarcastic.....

 

You're unlikely to get many responses from leavers re. the points you've mentioned - as we've been round and round in circles time and time again, and can't be bothered to keep repeating the same arguments.

 

Unlike remainers, who always start the same 'arguments' over and over again - even those that have been following (and commenting) on these threads prior to the referendum!

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

 

Only for those that haven't been following these threads for very long.....

 

The rest of us are able to (mostly) recognise whether or not a post is sarcastic.....

 

You're unlikely to get many responses from leavers re. the points you've mentioned - as we've been round and round in circles time and time again, and can't be bothered to keep repeating the same arguments.

 

Unlike remainers, who always start the same 'arguments' again - even those that have been following (and commenting) on these threads prior to the referendum!

Unfortunately, I wasn't a member of this forum when the referendum was voted on. Was a member of another forum, at the time, and I can assure you that my comments have remained consistent.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Whooo! Belligerent enough for you?

I'm reactive when it comes to all that ????

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

 

Only for those that haven't been following these threads for very long.....

 

The rest of us are able to (mostly) recognise whether or not a post is sarcastic.....

 

You're unlikely to get many responses from leavers re. the points you've mentioned - as we've been round and round in circles time and time again, and can't be bothered to keep repeating the same arguments.

 

Unlike remainers, who always start the same 'arguments' over and over again - even those that have been following (and commenting) on these threads prior to the referendum!

you're largely right I guess,

 

didn't really understand many of his questions as these are issues that will go away

 

sorry

I give up, have been struggling with this post for long time now,

TVF is NOT friendly today, completely screws up my formatting

 

[melvinmelvin]

55 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Unfortunately the deal, whichever one turns up tonight, is completely out of our hands and in the hands of the politicians.

 

Some have a fixed idea that no deal is better than a bad deal, some are the opposite, many especially those with narrow wins at the last election will be stuck between what they personally want and what their constituents want.

 

I wouldn't put even 25 satang on the outcome of today's vote.

 

The other thing that the Tory MPs are afraid of is if the PM loses and the Labour party wins a vote of "No Confidence" and a general election is called. Voters in constituencies sometimes have long memories and they indulge in the "What have the Romans MP ever done for us".

 

I don't want to see another referendum nor another general election either as IMHO it would do nobody any favours at this time.

 

I can see Teresa May staying on as PM IF she gets her way, or if she doesn't then I think she will quit by the middle of the year. If she does that will open a different can of worms to see who draws the short straw to replace her.

 

As my Mum used to say many years ago. This is a right buggers muddle and no mistake.

 

I would like to say that may the best side win but I don't think that there IS a best side.

 

Have a great day.

 

thank you, will have a go at having a great day, have stacked up on red wine, whisky, vodka, beer

and some OK munch/grub

 

need a link to where I can watch "Creatures in Westminster Zoo" live

 

if I were you I wouldn't wager on the final vote on may-deal taking place today,

stacks of amendment motions and tons of chatty MPs requires time to sort

 

Speaker will have to work for his salary today (tomorrow).

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

55 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

 

Only for those that haven't been following these threads for very long.....

 

The rest of us are able to (mostly) recognise whether or not a post is sarcastic.....

 

You're unlikely to get many responses from leavers re. the points you've mentioned - as we've been round and round in circles time and time again, and can't be bothered to keep repeating the same arguments.

 

Unlike remainers, who always start the same 'arguments' over and over again - even those that have been following (and commenting) on these threads prior to the referendum!

 

51 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Unfortunately, I wasn't a member of this forum when the referendum was voted on. Was a member of another forum, at the time, and I can assure you that my comments have remained consistent.

Exactly the point I was making re. the arguments from posters that HAVE been following these threads for a long time as opposed to those that haven't followed most of the threads - and so don't realise that the same circular arguments, keep repeating.....

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you're largely right I guess,

 

didn't really understand many of his questions as these are issues that will go away

 

sorry

I give up, have been struggling with this post for long time now,

TVF is NOT friendly today, completely screws up my formatting

 

Entirely off topic, and I'm sorry to say this - but it's likely your computer that is playing up ☹️.

 

I went through the same thing a few days ago and had to resort to 'restoring factory settings' .....  It took me approx. 24 hours to get things (sort of.....) back to 'normal' - although I still can't find my old skype account ☹️.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Entirely off topic, and I'm sorry to say this - but it's likely your computer that is playing up ☹️.

 

I went through the same thing a few days ago and had to resort to 'restoring factory settings' .....  It took me approx. 24 hours to get things (sort of.....) back to 'normal' - although I still can't find my old skype account ☹️.

dunno, maybe you are right, I'm not a laptop/windows heavy

 

but the only piece of software I really experience problems with is TVF,

apart from TVF it works smooth as silk

 

maybe I'll make a MS document offline and upload it.

 

[adammike]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

As I understand it, today the parliament will commence on its formal handling of the may-deal.

Have also been told that the doings of the parliament will be broadcast live.

 

Any links to where the Creatures in Westminster Zoo can be watched live? Preferably not in HD.

 

 

Try the radio maybe radio4 from the BBC.

[melvinmelvin]

51 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Entirely off topic, and I'm sorry to say this - but it's likely your computer that is playing up ☹️.

 

I went through the same thing a few days ago and had to resort to 'restoring factory settings' .....  It took me approx. 24 hours to get things (sort of.....) back to 'normal' - although I still can't find my old skype account ☹️.

 

thanks, anyway, I did make up a pot (piece of text) re that list of questions,

might as well bother you with it as trying to find the original post,

doesn't make much of a difference;

 

here goes;

 

There is a saying I know; 1 fool can ask more questions than 10 wise can answer.

line above and below not directed to you DD

Not meaning your questions are foolish but they are kinda out of context.

In which context do you ask these questions?

UK is now, still, in the process of leaving EU. That is the valid political objective so far.

May change though, by all means.

As UK goes about disentangling from EU most of your questions will disappear.

Your last question is very very relevant, I have raised that issue and a host of similar issues in these Brexit forums many times over the past couple of years. I have no answer but your question is in my mind very pertinent.

 

 

Now, (1) the NI border;

Try this one;

Just stop regarding a NI border as a problem. If a border is there – relate to it – don’t make it a problem. After all, it is not uncommon that borders surround countries.

 

(having a well defined border that can be protected and defended are some of the important criteria in the treaty of treaties which must be met in order to be considered a sovereign state)

 

I understand that the above, although seriously meant, will be met with raised eyebrows by most here, it takes some digestion and thinking to see some logic in it.

 

 

Below come a couple of well known statements that fall into the same category as the statement above. Both require some considerable thinking in order to see the logic.

 

 

Maybe 20 years ago the chief of the US National Security Agency, (his son was caught hacking into a top secret military computer) went public with the following views;

It is impossible to avoid spying and spies at all time, it is impossible to keep all you want secret. If you have military sensitive information that you think is very important to you – Just go public with it, put it in newspapers – magazines – radio shows – TV shows / your enemy will very soon lose interest in it.

 

 

 

Before Finland joined EU her top politicians (they are no prostitutes) were frequently interviewed re their thoughts, if any, about how the relatively small state Finland could have any impact on EU proceedings. The upper echelons in political Finland answered as follows;

Our strategy is to strive to have Finland on the winning side of arguments/discussions/splits/problems/quarrels/disagreements etc etc. That is the way in which we think that Finland’s interests can best be safeguarded.

 

[findlay13]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

'Leave means leave' blah, blah, blah. 

I've noticed a VERY common denominator with you Leave lot in that you are all up for the brain dead slogans but very short on the ideas of how to handle the immense problems that Brexit has thrown up.

So I'll give you all a chance. Please let me know what YOU would suggest to sort out the following:-

 

1. The Northern Ireland border.

2. Britain's financial obligations to the EU?

3. The EU single market & customs union?

4. The insistence from the EU that entry to the single market/customs union also comes with free movement of EU nationals?

5. The drop in EU immigration's shortfall effect on the NHS, social care and construction?  

6. Security - once EU law has no more effect on the UK, how do you handle things like Europol and the European Arrest Warrants that both require EU law?  

 

That's only 6 of many, many problems.

I'm all ears.

 

 

Your all ears? Poor bugger, Oh dear,

never mind.

How did all this work before the Brussels dictatorship?

Britain USED to have a very good NHS and  can again I have no doubt.

Re introduce customs 

More than half the problems seem to be from no borders and free travel and illegal immigrants as far as I can tell.

Interpol worked before and could again beef it up a bit maybe.

As for the financial obligations that was paid in full in blood in 1945 .Tell them to shove it.

39 Billion pounds would be a nice kick start to re building the UK as a nation free of EU B.S.There's a world outside of Europe waiting to trade with the UK.

How does Switzerland Do so well being a none EU country? Norway does alright as a none full member but they have EU problems with immigrants I'll admit.

But I wont comment further. Arguing here with thai visa members is a waste of precious time and effort.

[tebee]

The reason Theresa May will lose this evening is because Brexit has no mandate.

 

Leave only 'won' by making contradictory promises to different groups. So there is no vision of Brexit that has more than minority support. Any crystallization of Brexit explodes its tensions.

[johnnybangkok]

45 minutes ago, findlay13 said:

Your all ears? Poor bugger, Oh dear,

never mind.

How did all this work before the Brussels dictatorship?

Britain USED to have a very good NHS and  can again I have no doubt.

Re introduce customs 

More than half the problems seem to be from no borders and free travel and illegal immigrants as far as I can tell.

Interpol worked before and could again beef it up a bit maybe.

As for the financial obligations that was paid in full in blood in 1945 .Tell them to shove it.

39 Billion pounds would be a nice kick start to re building the UK as a nation free of EU B.S.There's a world outside of Europe waiting to trade with the UK.

How does Switzerland Do so well being a none EU country? Norway does alright as a none full member but they have EU problems with immigrants I'll admit.

But I wont comment further. Arguing here with thai visa members is a waste of precious time and effort.

So in other words...nothing. Literally no original ideas to solve the myriad of problems Brexit throws up.

Just the usual splattering of 1950's nostalgia (with the odd WW 2 reference thrown in for good measure), unworkable economics (yes the world is queuing up to give the UK a better trade deal than if they were part of the largest trading bloc in the world) and the usual splattering of xenophobia and downright racism.

It's just the usual Leave campaign rhetoric that gets regurgitated time and time again but offers no solution other than 'let's leave and work it all out afterwards' and 'don't worry, at least we can keep the immigrants out' when the vast majority of your perceived 'immigrant' issue does not even come from the EU.

However you are quite correct that arguing with Thai visa members is a 'waste of precious' time.

Especially when they are as clueless as you.

  

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

'Leave means leave' blah, blah, blah. 

I've noticed a VERY common denominator with you Leave lot in that you are all up for the brain dead slogans but very short on the ideas of how to handle the immense problems that Brexit has thrown up.

So I'll give you all a chance. Please let me know what YOU would suggest to sort out the following:-

 

1. The Northern Ireland border.

2. Britain's financial obligations to the EU?

3. The EU single market & customs union?

4. The insistence from the EU that entry to the single market/customs union also comes with free movement of EU nationals?

5. The drop in EU immigration's shortfall effect on the NHS, social care and construction?  

6. Security - once EU law has no more effect on the UK, how do you handle things like Europol and the European Arrest Warrants that both require EU law?  

 

That's only 6 of many, many problems.

I'm all ears.

 

 

 

They are good at slogans, don't confuse them with the difficult real world practical stuff.

 

I watched Stephen Merchant on TV last year (co-creator of the Office) discussing his dad's enthusiasm to "take back control". He said "he's a retired plumber from Bristol, he's never been in control of anything in his life"!

 

Just about sums them up.

 

 

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, findlay13 said:

 

How does Switzerland Do so well being a none EU country? 

 

You might want to look up Switzerland's relationship with the EU before you describe Switzerland as being a non-EU country. Do you think that the UK should have a similar relationship with the EU? Would that qualify as Brexit for you? 

[findlay13]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So in other words...nothing. Literally no original ideas to solve the myriad of problems Brexit throws up.

Just the usual splattering of 1950's nostalgia (with the odd WW 2 reference thrown in for good measure), unworkable economics (yes the world is queuing up to give the UK a better trade deal than if they were part of the largest trading bloc in the world) and the usual splattering of xenophobia and downright racism.

It's just the usual Leave campaign rhetoric that gets regurgitated time and time again but offers no solution other than 'let's leave and work it all out afterwards' and 'don't worry, at least we can keep the immigrants out' when the vast majority of your perceived 'immigrant' issue does not even come from the EU.

However you are quite correct that arguing with Thai visa members is a 'waste of precious' time.

Especially when they are as clueless as you.

  

Haha Well Brains of Britain,I suggest if you're so worried about it you move back there.I kissed the Mother country goodbye in 1964 and would not live there for quids. but I hate deceitful politicians which it seems May and her cronies are along with most of the rest of the politicians in the world. But all the remoaner stamping of feet and "we want another vote.We didn't vote last time " too bloody bad.The people voted OUT what don't you get about that.Didn't like the result? Tough.Perhaps surgery to remove your cranium from your rear end

 may help?

[adammike]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

You might want to look up Switzerland's relationship with the EU before you describe Switzerland as being a non-EU country. Do you think that the UK should have a similar relationship with the EU? Would that qualify as Brexit for you? 

They have referendums about everything all the time.

[melvinmelvin]

49 minutes ago, adammike said:

They have referendums about everything all the time.

the country does function though

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

58 minutes ago, adammike said:

They have referendums about everything all the time.

And the EU forbid you having “referendums about everything all the time”? 

[melvinmelvin]

have been following the Muppet show in Westminster Zoo for the past hours

 

a bit tragic really the debate, the debate is mostly on the political slogan level,

some good points are made though

 

just too bad that parliament woke up only 1 week ago re Brexit

the debate going on in Westminster Zoo now should have taken place months ago

 

at least, the UK Speaker can make a proper tie knot

 

 

 

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

have been following the Muppet show in Westminster Zoo for the past hours

 

a bit tragic really the debate, the debate is mostly on the political slogan level,

some good points are made though

 

just too bad that parliament woke up only 1 week ago re Brexit

the debate going on in Westminster Zoo now should have taken place months ago

 

at least, the UK Speaker can make a proper tie knot

 

 

 

 

 

 

1

 

the debate is a bit lacking in direction me thinks

my understanding is (maybe wrongly) that what is debated is the may-deal yes/no

 

the House of Commons doyen had a very lengthy intervention an hour ago,

he was debating withdraw A50 and remain in EU. rather than focusing on may-deal.

but, for all I know, as the doyen, you may be free to ramble about whatever you fancy

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

am surprised re the number of Muppets partaking i the discourse

 

less than half the house,

 

my expectations were that the house would be packed

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

am surprised re the number of Muppets partaking i the discourse

 

less than half the house,

 

my expectations were that the house would be packed

 

There's a few hours to go. The glitterati will be in the the finale.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

There's a few hours to go. The glitterati will be in the the finale.

Finale underway. All ahead flank!

[melvinmelvin]

yes, was packed a the end

 

wow, quite a defeat, 400 and some against deal, 200 and a few for the deal

 

now Corbyn is speaking

 

tabling his non conf motion. will be discussed tomorrow