Sufficiency Economics

[younghusband]

So in otherwords you have nothing to add to this debate except flames and knee jerk defensive reactions to any perceived criticism of Thai culture or policies. Ok, i'm glad we got that out of the way.

I'm open to fair criticism really and actually I like nad value it. But I just can't stand blatant ignorance, false information, generalization and general stupidity.

Well what's your position on a few generally sensible if common place platitudes on social, economic and corporate policy being puffed up in such a ludicrous and sycophantic way? Yes there's something to be said for moderation, immunisation where possible to external shocks, local food production initiatives,less dependency on exports etc. What however makes many of us sceptical is not so much the threadbare intellectual framework to this so called philosophy of well meant homilies but the way a notoriously bloated, greedy and corrupt Bangkok power elite interprets it to keep the majority of Thais "in their rightful place".

Edited February 24, 2007 by younghusband

[ThaiGoon]

Well what's your position on a few generally sensible if common place platitudes on social, economic and corporate policy being puffed up in such a ludicrous and sycophantic way? Yes there's something to be said for moderation, immunisation where possible to external shocks, local food production initiatives,less dependency on exports etc. What however makes many of us sceptical is not so much the threadbare intellectual framework to this so called philosophy of well meant homilies but the way a notoriously bloated, greedy and corrupt Bangkok power elite interprets it to keep the majority of Thais "in their rightful place".

What more can I say when you already started with your own preconceived notion that all this is being done with an evil hidden agenda behind it? I'm a Buddhist. I believe in the middle path and it is this philosophy from which sufficiency economy was derived. So I'm all for it. Like I said, if every Thai can adhere to it, we will all become a better nation as a result.

[younghusband]

Well what's your position on a few generally sensible if common place platitudes on social, economic and corporate policy being puffed up in such a ludicrous and sycophantic way? Yes there's something to be said for moderation, immunisation where possible to external shocks, local food production initiatives,less dependency on exports etc. What however makes many of us sceptical is not so much the threadbare intellectual framework to this so called philosophy of well meant homilies but the way a notoriously bloated, greedy and corrupt Bangkok power elite interprets it to keep the majority of Thais "in their rightful place".

What more can I say when you already started with your own preconceived notion that all this is being done with an evil hidden agenda behind it? I'm a Buddhist. I believe in the middle path and it is this philosophy from which sufficiency economy was derived. So I'm all for it. Like I said, if every Thai can adhere to it, we will all become a better nation as a result.

No I do not of course believe that the sufficiency economy was developed for ill intent:the thinking behind the original concept is benign.It contains some sound advice and echoes schools of thought around the world disenchanted with the excesses of consumerism and sensitive to globalization's downside.The trouble is that it all has all become monstrously inflated in Thailand and has been seized on by those who should know better as the way to solve all Thailand's problems. some being opportunists,some sycophants and some with more sinister motives.Your last sentence is one with which I would fully agree.The trouble is of course is that the Bangkok elite has no intention of pursuing a middle path in terms of their own excesses, but will invoke the sufficiency economy to preserve the current unfair status quo with the majority of Thais shackled to their place.

[farangene]

I understand the general concepts of capitalism and market forces:

......

Any economic genius out there who would like to have a go?

I am not an economic genius but Shawn Crispin (formerly F.E. Economic Review and now Asia Times Online) tried to explain Suff. Econ. in an article on Oct 5, 2006. He also has some interesting views of Thaksinomics as well as a Masters in Intl Economics.

I didn't realize that Suff. Econ. had been around for 10 years.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/HJ05Ae01.html

[ColPyat]

I didn't realize that Suff. Econ. had been around for 10 years.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/HJ05Ae01.html

What has been around tears ago though has very little in common with what is propagated by the present government. A clearly defined system of small scale agriculture and local micro economics has been changed into something that nobody i know understands anymore.

[toptuan]

I thought we were talking about Adam Smith only not what's been taught in MBA schools? Besides I only took a few econ classes to fulfil my humanity course requirements. So I reall didn't bother to look at those MBA classes much as my major was electrical engineering.

My Dear Goon, YOU brought up the education aspect! May I quote?

"Already have when I took a few econ classes during my undergrad studies..."

In my response, I brought up both undergrad and grad studies. You shouldn't just pick out a partial quotation to make your point.

[Canuckfan]

I am a comp sci grad (MS) - And recently I began looking at political systems the same as a computer operating systems.

If you had to install a system in Thailand - Which systems in the world would you choose what has the least bugs? - ie corruption, profiteering, embezzlement and so on?

If I was to install a system - What system environments provide the most benefit to the operations and potental of the society?

Unfortuneately in the political system it the very BUGS that decide and benefit from the decisions - so they pick or stay with a system based on self interest.

Perhaps a democracy where the leadership is watched by congress and the judicial, the USA should try that one too!?!

I think its time for the very societies in question to become the architects of there desitinies and create systems where the BUGs are deleted and the society can flourish.

Just my 2 baht worth

[qwertz]

For "sufficiency economics" carried to extremes, check out Year Zero in Cambodia.

[Mobi]

Well obviously there aren't any geniuses out there

68 posts and 5 pages of thread, and no-one has come close to defining the Sufficiency Economy.

The closest I recieved was in a PM in which it was defined as:-

"Capitilalism with morals"

Can anyone do better?

[ColPyat]

Well obviously there aren't any geniuses out there

Sorry, but the problem is that i think you need to be a moron to be content with all presently available explanations.

[soundman]

For "sufficiency economics" carried to extremes, check out Year Zero in Cambodia.

I'm sure some people will agree with this point, but probably a subject best not brought up on TV.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[wintermute]

Well obviously there aren't any geniuses out there

Sorry, but the problem is that i think you need to be a moron to be content with all presently available explanations.

What I have gleaned from this thread..

Basically if you're not Thai you will never understand the magnificence and grandiosity that is the sufficiency economy.

Adam Smith was wrong and the sufficiency economy is right.

Sufficiency economy is implemented wrong but what the right way to implement it is we'll never know because it's a deep philosophy or something dude.

Those that try to debate Thai economic issues are pompous cockroaches or parasites.

Capitalism with the strict application of vague moral principles will turn Thailand around in the future.

[kmart]

At a local level, the sufficiency economy might seem to be feasible, and beneficial to ordinary (read: poor) Thai people. Capitalism with morals, as someone stated earlier.

You know the scheme to be be already co-opted and in serious trouble when espoused by the crony, nepotistic, capitalists with no morals whatsoever. As another tool to maintain the status quo and benefit themselves only.

[lomatopo]

Some links I've found interesting:

http://www.thaiembdc.org/whatsnew/news/und...encyeconomy.pdf

http://www.generalprem.com/Speech5.html

http://www.chaipat.or.th/chaipat/journal/d.../e_economy.html

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/B...kians/dec14.php

http://kyotoreview.cseas.kyoto-u.ac.jp/iss...rticle_292.html

http://www.undp.or.th/NHDR2007/pdf/EN_Pres...NHDR%202007.pdf

Seems like it's more of a philosophy intended to reduce the risk of a collapse like 1997 by having everyone: indivduals, corporations, government officals all working together to avoid over-extending themselves financially. This implies market controls of some sort, even in the from of universal self-restraint, which are usually always a bad thing.

"The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that: Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right; greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms, greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge — has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words — will save not only Teldar Paper but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."

From the 1987 film "Wall Street"

Re: "capitalism with morals", economic systems do not have morals.

Edited February 25, 2007 by lomatopo

[Heng]

It's going to be different for everyone. It may be shopping at Foodland instead of Villa, flying business instead of first, sending the kids to gov't schools instead of international schools (or perhaps having them start inter. school later instead of in kindergarten), using just a little bit less toothpaste, etc. It's all relative.

[qwertz]

It's going to be different for everyone. It may be shopping at Foodland instead of Villa, flying business instead of first, sending the kids to gov't schools instead of international schools (or perhaps having them start inter. school later instead of in kindergarten), using just a little bit less toothpaste, etc. It's all relative.

Sufficiency economics is the philosophy, that you are rich in proportion that which you can do without.

[jaidam]

My missus loves this sufficiency economy thing. Reckons the whole pace of progress is too fast and we need to backstep a bit, foreigners welcome just for holidays and not to invest or live here etc..

There can't be too many supporters of this strange concept out there. Its worrying. I hope she isn't ThaiGoon.

[DrFisher]

While Sufficiency Economy is something Westerners may have a hard time understanding I would respectfully caution you as to how you criticize His Majesties ideas. I simple English here it is:

His Majesty the King had been expressing the Philosophy of Sufficiency Economy as a guideline for Thai people to lead their lives in speeches for more than 25 years before the 1997 economic crisis. Even after the crisis he emphasized this way to get through it in order to maintain a stable and durable existence. His Majesty suggested that Thai people at all levels follow the “middle path” as an appropriate model for conduct in every aspect of life. The conduct starts from the family and moves to the community, and then to the government level in the areas of development and administration. This will help people better meet the challenges arising from globalization and achieve sustainable development.

“Sufficiency” means moderation, reasonableness, and having an adequate “immune system” to protect each level against any impact caused by both external and internal changes. Thailand has applied the Sufficiency Economy concept to its development process since the economic crisis, with an aim to create balance and sustainability in its economic system. The gradual recovery of the Thai economy can partly be attributed to its application. This concept has been incorporated into the current Ninth Economic and Social Development Plan, 2002 to 2006.

As a developing country, Thailand is willing to share and cooperate with other developing nations in implementing the Sufficiency Economy concept, in an effort to help meet regional and sub-regional challenges arising from globalization as well as technological, cultural, and social changes. The proposed implementation will be arranged through the ministerial international conference on Sufficiency Economy.

Philosophy of Sufficiency Economy

It can be summarized that the target of the numerous royal-initiated projects is the development of “Man,” to be self-reliant.

One of His Majesty’s significant principles is that the development must be suitable to the geographical and social conditions. There must be proper promotion of knowledge and modern technology. The developments must be based on the principles of sustainable conservation and the development of natural resources.

His Majesty’s New Theory proposes guidelines for the proper management of limited natural resources to achieve optimum benefit. It has been estimated that Thai farming households, consisting of 4-5 members each, own approximately 15 rai (24,000 square meters) of land per household. The New Theory thus divides the land into four parts; thirty percent for digging a pond to collect water to be used for cultivation in the dry season, and to raise fish as well; thirty percent for rice cultivation sufficient for all year round home consumption; thirty percent for integrated field and garden crops, and fruits; and ten percent for housing and constructions for other activities such as livestock enclosures, mushroom nursery, and roads.

When the New Theory is carried out, in the first year the farmers will have all the food they need for consumption. They are basically self-reliant concerning food and also have work to do all year round. When successful, some farmers will follow the second phase of the New Theory by forming groups to sell their surplus, thereby initiating production, marketing, and social grouping, resulting in a cooperative. This leads to the third phase of the New Theory which involves an expansion of operation to facilitate a higher level of business dealing, requiring funding from outside sources such as banks or private companies to set up funds to carry out activities for further benefit.

In developing the country, His Majesty has adhered to the natural principle, in which people employ natural resources available in each locality. The results are very satisfactory, for example, growing vetiver grass to prevent the erosion of top soil, as well as to conserve soil and water; improving deteriorated soil for natural farming; reforestation without planting; building check dams in the forests to conserve watershed areas; and using water hyacinth to solve the problem of polluted water. The simple operations of these projects have resulted in the balance of the entire ecological system, and led to sustainable development. The Royal Development Study Centers and various other projects have therefore been visited not only by practitioners but also by heads of state, prime ministers, as well as leaders of many countries. Eminent visitors include Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, of the United Kingdom, Their Majesties King Carl XVI Gustav and Queen Sylvia of Sweden, His Excellency Nuhak Phumsawan, President of the Lao People’s Democratic Republic, and President Gloria Arroyo of the Republic of the Philippines.

In 2005 the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Office of the Royal Development Project Board jointly organized the Ministerial Conference on Alternative Development: Sufficiency Economy, attended by 19 ministers from countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. As a means to offer sustainable agricultural assistance, His Majesty’s philosophy of Sufficiency Economy and the New Theory for agriculture have been used as guidelines in providing assistance in the reconstruction of Afghanistan. The United Nations agreed that the work of the royal-initiated projects is most suitable in the development of countries in dire need of assistance.

Vetiver Grass Development Project

The Vetiver Grass Development Projects have been in operation in Thailand since 1991. Due to the internationally recognized results of the project, Thailand has organized international seminars on vetiver grass twice, the first in 1996 on “Vetiver: A Miracle Grass,” and the second in 2000 on “Vetiver and the Environment.” The success of the royal-initiated vetiver operation has induced Thailand to organize vetiver training and field trips for foreigners from 15 countries around the world. Moreover, officials from agencies such as the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources of the Philippines, the Zambian Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries, and the US Ministry of Agriculture have taken special interest in vetiver operations.

Disaster management

Apart from development work for the well-being of his subjects, His Majesty‘s benevolence is also manifested in times of catastrophes. One noted incident was in 1962 when a typhoon struck twelve coastal provinces in Southern Thailand and caused extensive destruction to lives and properties. His Majesty was the first to promptly take action by making a nationwide appeal through his palace radio station, the Aw Saw Radio at Ambara Villa, for the relief of the storm’s victims. The amount of money donated was so great that after the relief operation there was enough left over to establish the Rajaprajanugroh Foundation to relieve victims of natural disasters. The 26 December 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami wrought mass destruction in several countries in East Africa, South and Southeast Asia, including six southern provinces of Thailand on the Andaman Coast.

Again it was His Majesty the King who first set the relief operation in motion by donating a large sum of money through the Chaipattana Foundation to alleviate the immediate plights of the tsunami victims, who were provided with food, clothing, medical care, and temporary lodging. The education of thousands of children, orphaned by the tsunami, was of primary concern. The Rajaprajanugroh Foundation gave assistance in the construction of new schools in Krabi and Phang-nga and restoration of the ones in Phuket. The children have been given accommodation and provided with opportunities and funds to pursue their education to the highest level they desire. After the initial stage, with additional donation from several organizations and the public, the Chaipattana Foundation has been able to provide sustainable assistance towards the restoration of the victims and natural resources to normalcy. This has been achieved through the establishment of the “Chaipattana-Thai Red Cross Village 1” and “Chaipattana-Thai Red Cross Village 2” for households in Khura Buri District, Phang-nga Province, the hardest hit area. As villagers in the six Southern coastal provinces, who are mostly fishermen, have lost their boats in the tsunami, the Foundation has provided them with fiberglass fishing boats and set up a boat management fund so that the local fishermen may have a circulating fund for the maintenance of their boats and development of their livelihood.

Apart from being the longest reigning monarch in the world, His Majesty is perhaps one of the hardest working heads of state. All through the 60 years on the throne, his activities have covered not only affairs of state, but also activities in diverse fields. His numerous development projects, philosophy of Sufficiency Economy, and New Theory not only bear direct benefit on the Thai people but can also be applied worldwide. The Artificial Rain Project and the Chaipattana Aerator are examples of his initiative and invention that can be useful in agriculture and the conservation of the environment. All these contributions are encapsulated in His Majesty‘s name, “Bhumibol,” which means “Strength of the Land.”

[sbk]

Thank you for the post, Dr Fisher, most enlightening. And on that note, I think this thread should be closed as this is clearly a topic fraught with difficulties.