Skytrain Fare Hikes From March 1, 2007

[george]

BTS fare hikes on Thursday

BANGKOK: -- Fares of the Skytrain will be raised by Bt5 starting from March 1, said its operator Bangkok Mass Transit System (BTS).

The fares will then start at Bt15 to Bt45.

BTS initially planned to raise the minimum fare from Bt10 to Bt15 from on December 1. However, Bangkok Metropolitan Administration which granted the concession to operate the Skytrain system to BTS set up a committee to review the faread justment plan and resolved to have the hike postponed.

BTS has said it needs to raise fares to cope with a 30 percent increase in operating costs. With Bt7.7 billion in debt, BTS has to shoulder daily expenses of Bt10.5 million, while its daily income ranges from Bt8 million to Bt9 million.

The fare increase would have boosted BTS's income by 10 per cent, and without affecting long haul passengers.

-- The Nation 2007-02-28

[Prakanong]

This is the first rise since opening?

[sonnyJ]

Maybe more cars?

[leisurely]

I'd hardly call it a hike. The skytrain is very good value for money IMHO.

[John K]

I think zone 1 and 2 only up 5 baht for single trip tickets.

[toybits]

More cars should might sound right. At present the trains are too short. They do not even come close to filling the length of the stations.

Problem is what to do with long trains during non-peak hours?

Maybe more cars?

[stats]

Thats why i quit on BTS and have bought a car . lol

[ThaiGoon]

More cars should might sound right. At present the trains are too short. They do not even come close to filling the length of the stations.

Problem is what to do with long trains during non-peak hours?

Maybe more cars?

They are already committed to buy more trains from Mit Sui I think. And the delivery will take 20 months. So by the end of next year, we should see more trains running. The first phase of Taksin extension should also be completed right around that time.

Edited March 1, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[John K]

During the non rush hour times the trains are not over crowded, and the increased number of trains during the rush hour does max out the system as from time to time the trains stop between stations waiting for the train ahead to clear the station. I think things are fine, however I am waiting to see how the bottle neck will fly at the Taksin station as both northbound and southbound trains must use the same track because of the narrow design. The two new stations look nearly finished and I would think service could start in a month or so.

[ThaiGoon]

During the non rush hour times the trains are not over crowded, and the increased number of trains during the rush hour does max out the system as from time to time the trains stop between stations waiting for the train ahead to clear the station. I think things are fine, however I am waiting to see how the bottle neck will fly at the Taksin station as both northbound and southbound trains must use the same track because of the narrow design. The two new stations look nearly finished and I would think service could start in a month or so.

The construction of the first phase of Taksin extension is schedulded to be completed in April. It will take a while to install the signalling system and test it as BMA, the one who's paying for all BTS extensions, is waiting for BTSC to finalzie their deal with Bombardier to change their signalling system. They are also waiting for BTSC to get more trains as well I think. Last I read, BMA expected that 2.2 km Taksin extension part to start operating in the first quarter of next year. The rest of Taksin extension (another 4+ km) will be completed and operational about a year after that. The BMA is drafting TOR for the signalling system and the construction of the stations for that part. As for On-Nut to Barring extension, it will be completed in 2009.

Edited March 1, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[MarkBKK]

More cars should might sound right. At present the trains are too short. They do not even come close to filling the length of the stations.

Problem is what to do with long trains during non-peak hours?

Maybe more cars?

IIRC, for about a year or so (maybe longer) after the Skytrain opened, it ran with five carriages. Hardly any Thais used it then (it seemed like it was mainly tourists and ex-pats) and it was pretty much empty all the time. Then they started running three carriages, everyone started using it all the time ... and now it's now and I think the fact that it's been running with three for a few years means it'll carry on that way. There are few logisitcal problems with running five at peak times and three at others, perhaps it's simply inertia.

[ThaiGoon]

IIRC, for about a year or so (maybe longer) after the Skytrain opened, it ran with five carriages. Hardly any Thais used it then (it seemed like it was mainly tourists and ex-pats) and it was pretty much empty all the time. Then they started running three carriages, everyone started using it all the time ... and now it's now and I think the fact that it's been running with three for a few years means it'll carry on that way. There are few logisitcal problems with running five at peak times and three at others, perhaps it's simply inertia.

That's interesting. From what I read, their deal to buy more trains was either to add another carriage to exisisting 3-carriage trains or have more of the same 3 cariages running more frequesntly. I don't know if BTSC has decided yet which way they wanna go though.

[John K]

I don’t think the system can’t go beyond 2.4 minutes between trains as the safety system will not allow more than 1 train in a zone at a time. The 4.0 minutes between trains during the day is fine and you can still get a seat 50% of the time. So the only thing they can do is have longer trains to move more people during rush hour. The trains that don’t run during the slow time can be the longer trains. That would be the most economical way. As the new section comes on line more trains can be accommodated.

[ThaiGoon]

I don’t think the system can’t go beyond 2.4 minutes between trains as the safety system will not allow more than 1 train in a zone at a time. The 4.0 minutes between trains during the day is fine and you can still get a seat 50% of the time. So the only thing they can do is have longer trains to move more people during rush hour. The trains that don’t run during the slow time can be the longer trains. That would be the most economical way. As the new section comes on line more trains can be accommodated.

True.

Anyway, I'd like to add this news to this thread. It is not really related to BTS per se. But it's news about a new mass transit project that will be submitted to the Cabinet in the next couple of months. Personally I'd like them to complete all the BTS and subway lines within Bangkok first before they expand the lines to neighboruing provinces. Here's the article from Bangkok Post about a week ago.

New routes set to link city, provinces

Officials seek cabinet approval for project

http://www.bangkokpost.net/220207_News/22Feb2007_news11.php

"Transport officials are seeking cabinet approval for an ambitious plan to develop four high-speed electric train routes linking Bangkok with nearby provinces.

The four routes are: Makkasan to Chachoengsao in the East (54km); Rangsit to Ayutthaya's Ban Pachi in the North (60km); Taling Chan to Nakhon Pathom in the West (42km); and Samut Sakhon's Maha Chai to Ratchaburi's Pak Tho in the South (56km).

The trains would run at a maximum speed of 160km an hour under the plan drawn up by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning.

The new rail system would reduce travel time to and from Bangkok by 10 to 30 minutes. Trains would operate every 5 to 15 minutes during rush hours, under the plan.

The estimated cost is 140 billion baht."

[ThaiGoon]

A few pictures of Taksin extension taken on 18/2/07. (From Thaitransport-photo.net)

http://www.thaitransport-photo.net/modules...51&start=30

[John K]

I don’t see the need for the out of town system just yet, traffic is not an issue and bussing seems to work. However inside Bangkok is another story. Simply the oil supply is running out and we may already be at the tipping point when demand is greater than supply. I have had a lengthy conversation with a person who’s job is to find oil. Simply he says there is none to be found except small pockets. All the big fields are gone. I have not heard of new refineries being built anyplace. I can clearly remember reading about 5or 6 years ago an article saying that 2010 was the estimated tipping point. That article was written before China got it’s drinking problem.

The need for more elevated trains and subways is necessary or we could all find ourselves in big trouble in a few years. The plan I saw was for Bangkok was a bit grand, but very future and futuristic looking. This minor hike is fare is a proper move and moving in the right direction provided the money goes to the right place and not into someone’s pocket.

[Ijustwannateach]

I suppose it's inevitable as the line expands that they will need more cash... I hope they don't expand too fast; Japan became the anal retentive society it is now is largely because of the control over society that trains made possible...

[ThaiGoon]

I suppose it's inevitable as the line expands that they will need more cash... I hope they don't expand too fast; Japan became the anal retentive society it is now is largely because of the control over society that trains made possible...

How so? I don't quite get it.

And John K., yeah I absolutely agree with you that the mass transit projects will be much more beneficial if it covers more ground within Bnagkok than if it expands to neighboruing provinces. There are still three or four lines of BTS/Subways to be approved of funding by the government, besides the five lines they have already approved. And I don't quite see how this plan to expand out of the city is more important than those. Having said that, I will still be pretty happy if they apporve this new plan.

[SoiSong]

Thats why i quit on BTS and have bought a car . lol

i WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM TO BE THE BUYING OF A TUK TUK AND GETTING A LIL PROFIT WHILST SOTREEING ABOUT KRUNG THEP, NO?

[Ijustwannateach]

I suppose it's inevitable as the line expands that they will need more cash... I hope they don't expand too fast; Japan became the anal retentive society it is now is largely because of the control over society that trains made possible...

How so? I don't quite get it.

And John K., yeah I absolutely agree with you that the mass transit projects will be much more beneficial if it covers more ground within Bnagkok than if it expands to neighboruing provinces. There are still three or four lines of BTS/Subways to be approved of funding by the government, besides the five lines they have already approved. And I don't quite see how this plan to expand out of the city is more important than those. Having said that, I will still be pretty happy if they apporve this new plan.

The growth of the train lines was at first a subtle form of social control- as trains replaced taxis, you couldn't get (cheap) taxis anymore; so there was a much bigger economic cost to staying out past the time the trains ran. Furthermore, people couldn't use the excuse that the train was late so this obsession with being on time began (after all, before the clocks were so important Japan couldn't have been so obsessive about being on time to the minute).

And finally, the trains existed at the pleasure of the government, so they became a passive way for government to impose its rules on local areas (easier to move in police, check on conditions, control movement). So it reduced the power of local government to the benefit of the central government.

These types of things could have big social implications for Thailand if the growth of trains brings them here, too.

"S"

[ThaiGoon]

The growth of the train lines was at first a subtle form of social control- as trains replaced taxis, you couldn't get (cheap) taxis anymore; so there was a much bigger economic cost to staying out past the time the trains ran. Furthermore, people couldn't use the excuse that the train was late so this obsession with being on time began (after all, before the clocks were so important Japan couldn't have been so obsessive about being on time to the minute).

And finally, the trains existed at the pleasure of the government, so they became a passive way for government to impose its rules on local areas (easier to move in police, check on conditions, control movement). So it reduced the power of local government to the benefit of the central government.

These types of things could have big social implications for Thailand if the growth of trains brings them here, too.

"S"

But overall, it gotta have more positive impacts on the country as a whole than negative ones. There will be less polution and less fuel wasted which are two huge pluses. It will stimulate more growth in real estate sector. People will be more on time (I don't think obsession with being on time is such a bad thing.) Less mental stress on people who have to commute everyday to their works. There also could be some sort of knowledge and technology transfer to Thai engineers who will be involved in the projects, and one day Thailand might be able to develop this kind of technology of their own. Then we could export our technology to neighboring countires who in the future will need this kind of system for their countries too.

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, different strokes for different folks, but personally speaking I wouldn't want to see Thailand moving in the same directions as Japan; there's a reason they have suicide clubs there.

[ednguyen]

The idea of paying THB 15 for the trip between National Stadium and Siam (Central) is going to take some getting use to. Furthermore, when I enter the system at say Thong Lo® and have to stand all the way to Siam while passengers previously boarding at Phrakanong or On Nuj have occupied all the seats is just not equitable considering we all pay the same amount of money. And, while it's now too late to do anything about it, the schizoid foot-traffic design by the Siemens people is totally unprofessional, and I hope is not repeated in the future extensions.

[astral]

Just why have operating costs risen by 30%??

Bigger kick backs?

[wpcoe]

The idea of paying THB 15 for the trip between National Stadium and Siam (Central) is going to take some getting use to.

Try rationalizing that a taxi would cost over twice as much? Or, that avoiding a walk on the elevated walkway between the two stations is worth B15?

[ThaiGoon]

The idea of paying THB 15 for the trip between National Stadium and Siam (Central) is going to take some getting use to.

Try rationalizing that a taxi would cost over twice as much? Or, that avoiding a walk on the elevated walkway between the two stations is worth B15?

Yeah, exactly. Why doesn't he just walk? If you are lazy enough to have to take the BTS from Siam to National Stadium, then don't complain about 15 bht you have to pay. His other complaints are just as ridiculous and laughable as well.

And to Astral, since it began the operation in 1999, BTS hasn't raised their fares once. So it's probably reasonable to believe that the operating costs have risen about 30% from 1999 to 2007 which is about 4% a year.

[backflip]

"Yeah, exactly. Why doesn't he just walk? If you are lazy enough to have to take the BTS from Siam to National Stadium, then don't complain about 15 bht you have to pay. His other complaints are just as ridiculous and laughable as well. "

You hit the nail on the head. Oh wait, that nutty poster claimed the trains were a governmental conspiracy to control people. Let's see, if people walk instead of ride, they might get in better physical condition, lessening the medical costs that the goverment pays. Ahhh haaaa.

"And to Astral, since it began the operation in 1999, BTS hasn't raised their fares once. So it's probably reasonable to believe that the operating costs have risen about 30% from 1999 to 2007 which is about 4% a year. "

Exactly right. Astral thought that they were claiming that costs had risen 30% since yesterday.

[tartempion]

Short trains non-peak hours, long trains peak hours

More cars should might sound right. At present the trains are too short. They do not even come close to filling the length of the stations.

Problem is what to do with long trains during non-peak hours?

Maybe more cars?