School Dragging Their Arses...

[Norrad]

I start work, at a Government school, at the start of May and I want to have all my paperwork sorted out by then, but the school seems to be dragging their <deleted> in getting the paperwork done. What does one do in this situation?

I gave them an updated list of paperwork required to convert my Visa and apply for the TL and WP. I even downloaded all the Thai forms for them.

I was told to come in today to pick up the paperwork, which I did. But when I arrived, I was told it would only be ready next week

I have everything from my side in order:

Police clearance from my home country.

Degree and transcripts

Letter from my Uni to verify my degree

I'm at my wits end on what to do from here. I really don't want to start teaching without my WP. Any advice on how to light a fire under the Thai administrations <deleted>? My window of opportunity, to convert my visa, is getting smaller all the time and I only have till next Friday.

[toptuan]

I hate to say this, but you are experiencing nothing unusual. Typically, you will finally be left with a one-day window to get it all done. Or late.

Truly, only the squeaky wheel sometimes gets the grease. Don't assume they will meet your deadlines without prodding every day (phone call or visit--"How is the paperwork coming? Ready on Friday? Monday?"). In Thailand, it's not what you EXPECT gets done, it's what you INSPECT gets done. And, sorry to say, it's a very fine line between making a pariah of yourself, and prodding these folks to meet deadlines. Always smile while giving your ultimatums.

In addition to the above, I would suggest you only deal with the top dog (head school director, president, etc.), and then give him/her regular feedback as to how his/her underlings are doing to meet your necessary time schedule.

If you find the head administrator/director unable to prod his/her own staff, then here's a "Plan B" suggestion:

In this case, sometimes you have to spend a day or two at the school administration offices and hand-carry your paperwork between departments/school bureaucrats just to keep the paperwork moving and so that it doesn't sit on someone's desk for a week or two. Don't just leave your papers with some secretary or clerk. Ask to see the person in charge, and stand there while they write the letter, sign the paper, or affix the school seal. If the person in charge says just to leave it with them, kindly smile and tell them "no time" (or point at the calendar or watch), and then patiently stand there until they deal with your documents. Then pick it up and carry it on to the next step. True, you are doing part of their work for them, but they'll utlimately be glad to get your red tape out of their hair, and you are keeping the process moving along.

My background:

I went through your scenario over a dozen times in my first year because my school couldn't get the non-immigrant B visa and labor dept. paperwork done on time, or correctly. Consequently, I had to renew my tourist visa every 30 days, and leaving the country, costing me a total of 25,000 baht in the first year. I also had to renew my work permit every 30 days at 700 baht a pop. My pay was only 17,000 baht/month.

After toughing it out for a year, I finally quit the school and went on to greener pastures. When asked why I quit (by a stunned, clueless administration), I simply said "Couldn't get visa, sorry." Sometimes you have to put up with administrative incompetence, just to get your foot in the door, then move on to more responsible/responsive schools.

I finally arrived at the above suggested/steps by four succeeding years of trial and error in dealing with other bureaucratic matters in school administrations.

Good luck, and keep squeaking....When you finally get into the classroom, certified and all, and if you love teaching, it'll be worth it.

Edited March 8, 2007 by toptuan

[Ijustwannateach]

The only thing you can do is leave. Nothing can make your school go faster (or the Thai government, if they're the ones holding things up). There's no transparency, and it doesn't help to know that some schools (and mysteriously, agency employers of underqualified backpackers) have so much clout the whole paperwork process only takes a week; while others may be delayed 6 months or more (indefinitely if they really don't want to get you the paperwork).

I'd start looking for other jobs, and then when you find one that's doing the paperwork correctly, leave your school with no notice. After all, without a work permit- you never worked there.

"Steven"

[toptuan]

...when you find one that's doing the paperwork correctly, leave your school with no notice. After all, without a work permit- you never worked there.

You might be able to pull off this "cut-and-run" maneuver in big Bangkok, but I wouldn't try it upcountry or in a smaller town.

As soon as you start the application process at the new school, word would quickly get around in the tight-knit academic community about your wandering eye. The new school will surely check out your performance at the old school via the grapevine, as they did with myself in a similar situation. In my case, I waited it out until the end of my contract to keep things legitimate and above-board.

In a worst-case scenario, your current school could make things pretty miserable for you and it could sink your teaching-in-Thailand career before you ever made it to the new refuge. In such a case, double your discretion, tactfulness, and secrecy.

Edited March 8, 2007 by toptuan

[Norrad]

I'm not exactly a Newbie. I taught at a Government Vocational college from May to December last year. I then was accepted by a Private Uni but they were informed, by the MOE, that I would need either a BEd or my current degree and a 1 year teaching qualification

So I went and worked for my current school on a probationary contract (No WP etc.). They asked me to stay on and gave me a full one year contract starting in May. They have a very good English Program and are a highly respected school. I don't feel like doing a Visa Run, so I'm hoping they can give me all the papers while my window of opportunity is open and I can just go down to Immigration and do the Visa conversion. Then they could apply for the TL and WP while we wait for the new school year to start.

[spectrum]

Does this school have other current/recent foreign teachers ? Ask for their email addresses and phone numbers. The other FT's will tell you if this is merely "normal" Thai speed or something to worry about (endless delay without any intention to fulfill employer responsibilities).

So far as I know, everyone starts teaching without a work permit. Many contracts have a probationary period, too. Don't worry about that in itself. Get an idea of how solid and reputable the school & contracts for foreign teachers are.

[Boatabike]

My school has just entered its most crazy period yet. I have been working there for 2 years and my permit expires on the 18th of this month, my visa on the 31st. Renewing it now would be the easiest and most likely way forward in my opinion. They all say they want me to work there, and from my experience with them, I believe this to be true.

I am in the system, any problems with new rules and regs. would be best dealt with whilst I am in the system and working, but no. The school has decided it should wait until the new term to renew my contract, thus putting me out of the system and back to square one with applying for a new visa at an Embassy somewhere not close. I have told them this is not the best way forward for me or for them and that, they are very likely to end up with no teacher at all, but they say they have to follow the rules? What rules? They then had the cheek after saying they need to follow the rules to ask me to work without a permit to the end of the month...Ha!

I have told them that it is, renew this month or not at all but the ass. director seems to have that 'oops cocked it up again, must not back down and lose face' attitude and so he is keeping to his decision despite the fact all the Thai teachers and office workers are shaking there heads and saying how sad it is to lose me. The kids, well I only found out 2 days ago and they are in the middle of their exams so I didn't want to upset them with the news but the ones that asked if they would be in my class next term took the news very badly.

Therefore, it looks like I am going to leave Thailand because I just can't deal with this intense stupidity anymore, they have this week to change tack and then I am out of here and looking for work in more reasonable countries. To anyone thinking of coming to work here.... good luck.

[Norrad]

Does this school have other current/recent foreign teachers ? Ask for their email addresses and phone numbers. The other FT's will tell you if this is merely "normal" Thai speed or something to worry about (endless delay without any intention to fulfill employer responsibilities).

So far as I know, everyone starts teaching without a work permit. Many contracts have a probationary period, too. Don't worry about that in itself. Get an idea of how solid and reputable the school & contracts for foreign teachers are.

I've already been through the probationary period, so they should get me legal, for the new contract, before I start working.

There are other Foreign teachers, but they are in the same boat as me. Most cannot extend their visa in Thailand, so they have planned their trips to Malaysia, Singapore etc. Only to be told the paperwork isn't ready.

Only one teacher has been at the school for awhile and he got his WP permit as soon as he started.

The thing that is starting to worry me is, when you apply for a non "B", you need a copy of your contract. The contract states your start date. Now if they give me the paperwork after I've started working, I could be refused the non "B". It clearly states, on Immigrations site, that the contract start date must me dated later than the time of your application.

A Filipino girl who works there was refused her non "B" because of that and the school will not modify the contract once it is signed.

Excuse my grammer, I've just woken up

[toptuan]

There are other Foreign teachers, but they are in the same boat as me. Most cannot extend their visa in Thailand, so they have planned their trips to Malaysia, Singapore etc. Only to be told the paperwork isn't ready.

A Filipino girl who works there was refused her non "B" because of that and the school will not modify the contract once it is signed.

Good, you've done your homework.

Based on those two facts alone (above, bold), your prospective school does not care a rat's arse about your needs and expenses to procure needed visas/work permits. They will do it "their (bureaucratic) way" regardless of expense or inconvenience to you and your fellow foreign teachers. With this added information you've given us, I would not even go through the steps I suggested in an earlier posting. This school is already showing its true colors and has a dismal track record.

The thing is, you will wrestle with this problem every single renewal date, and spend untold needless quantities of baht to make up for their incompetence. It's a losing battle, full of frustration and strained relationships.

I'd dump 'em, after I told them why, directly to the director's face.

Edited March 9, 2007 by toptuan

[toptuan]

My school has

Therefore, it looks like I am going to leave Thailand because I just can't deal with this intense stupidity anymore, they have this week to change tack and then I am out of here and looking for work in more reasonable countries. To anyone thinking of coming to work here.... good luck.

A sad casualty of administrative incompetence, and I can't blame the poster, either.**

Frankly, I'd tell them that you cannot work legally without a work permit (true), and leave the day the permit expires. What are they going to do? Go to the labor department to complain? You can do this, of course, if you don't mind losing possibly your whole month's salary (I know, they have you over a barrel, don't they?).

If you decide to leave, don't be too worried about "breaking a contract." Contracts here are not worth the paper they are written on, except to provide documentation for visas.

**Except for the problem that visas and work permits should always be in synchronization, date-wise. (Read ThaiVisa's excellent tutorials on steps to get a visa with work permit). Somebody dropped the ball here, which requires you to either renew your work permit for two weeks (nuts), or work without a permit for two weeks (probably what most would do), or quit on the 18th (make a point with your face-saving director).

Edited March 9, 2007 by toptuan

[spectrum]

your prospective school does not care a rat's arse about your needs and expenses to procure needed visas/work permits. They will do it "their (bureaucratic) way" regardless of expense or inconvenience to you and your fellow foreign teachers. With this added information you've given us, I would not even go through the steps I suggested in an earlier posting. This school is already showing its true colors and has a dismal track record.

The thing is, you will wrestle with this problem every single renewal date, and spend untold needless quantities of baht to make up for their incompetence. It's a losing battle, full of frustration and strained relationships.

Yes.

This is a good time to look for a new job.