Don Muang Airport Reopens

[sbk]

I wish you well in your effort to turn the Thailand travel experience into a Switch watch. Mind you I do not go out of my way to find a bad experience, but one of the reasons I like it here is the unpredictability. Some of the most memorable and funny experiences have happened when things did not go exactly according to plan. I do not particularly care if a few tourists do not have a good time in Thailand. The vast majority of people that visit LOS love it just the way it is. I think the efforts to change it has made it less attractive.

Cheers

My humble apologies.

Swiss watch.

Too many beers here in Taipei.

I love business travel when the company is paying.

Oh, I thought you were trying to say a "Swatch watch" and could not figure out how you could relate a Swatch to Thailand Thanks for the clarification.

[dman]

I wish you well in your effort to turn the Thailand travel experience into a Switch watch. Mind you I do not go out of my way to find a bad experience, but one of the reasons I like it here is the unpredictability. Some of the most memorable and funny experiences have happened when things did not go exactly according to plan. I do not particularly care if a few tourists do not have a good time in Thailand. The vast majority of people that visit LOS love it just the way it is. I think the efforts to change it has made it less attractive.

Cheers

My humble apologies.

Swiss watch.

Too many beers here in Taipei.

I love business travel when the company is paying.

Oh, I thought you were trying to say a "Swatch watch" and could not figure out how you could relate a Swatch to Thailand Thanks for the clarification.

Funny. I was looking at Swatch watches today at duty free while transiting Hong Kong. Thats where I probably got Swiss and Swatch to =Switch.

[mtnthai]

I wish you well in your effort to turn the Thailand travel experience into a Switch watch. Mind you I do not go out of my way to find a bad experience, but one of the reasons I like it here is the unpredictability. Some of the most memorable and funny experiences have happened when things did not go exactly according to plan. I do not particularly care if a few tourists do not have a good time in Thailand. The vast majority of people that visit LOS love it just the way it is. I think the efforts to change it has made it less attractive.

Cheers

i understand and appreciate what you are saying about the little quirky things of which you speak. and i am not trying to turn thailand into a "Swicth watch", just the services that demand it. i to love these quirky types of things that pop-up when travelling, but only when it is within certain acceptable bounds. even the great hotelier conrad hilton has said that people who do not venture from their hotel and see the real sites are not travellers but collectors of experiences to be shelved and forgotten, so why leave home to begin with if they plan on living in a perfect hotel room for the duration of their travels?

but what this topic, and the emphasis of my discussion is about is not that - it is about a national airport where certain services are expected and required to meet a safety and service standard that is based on a global standard, and they were not. once you leave the ariport sure, have an adventure, but not at the airport, train station or ferry, etc.

i was unable to make change that night, and at that time of night for someone with family and luggage and real things to control and worry about why should they be subjected to having a bkk taxi driver's response to being handed eithier foreign cash or big bills. i think we all know what can happen.

that is the point that no one seems to get here.

safety, choice, flexability and comfort were not really considered in the re-opening day Don Muang scenario. geting the cash cow back in the barn was.

i guess it is difficult for people who are not tasked with this work to know and comprehend the sheer amount of and the topics of most tourist's comments about travel here in LOS. if you had to interact and satisfy these paying customers as we do, on a 24/7 basis, i think it would be self-evident that most travellers expect, want and should be provided with these most basic things at a point of entry.

yes, they wish to be surprised and amazed we all do, but they still want basic services and they were not provided on that night.

and i do not believe that everyone who has replied to my posts just shrugs these things off continuously, bites the bullet and says mai phen rai, day after day when they are the brunt of the problem. it just suits your position at this time to say it is all ok, all of the time. and if you are the kind of folks who are going to say that to live in thailand you need to love the place and the people, why would you not want to see an improvement in their lives and work place? not change their character, just the manner in which things get addressed and accomplished. the days of one step forward and two steps back need to cease, while retaining thai cultural diversity and integrity and the ecology/environment.

Edited March 26, 2007 by mtnthai

[noungning]

mtnthai, i agree with you wholesomely.

i've read your point of views regarding trying to live up to the international standards of being a known "international airport" of the past, regardless of whether it was first day or not, it's not like the company was running for the first day, referring to Nok Airlines, they should know better than to have a typical excuse of "it was our first day". they've been in the industry prior to march 25th. additionally, when i say living up to the standards, i mean living to the standards of people's perception of how things should be and are expected from the company.

accordingly, i am a traveller and not an expat, i know certain services are cheaper than others and the saying goes, "you get what you paid for" but there are side notes to those, you can pay extra for more... but from what i've read of your post, nothing was offered. which is quite horrible for someone running on a tight schedule and need to eat a snack or something on flight.

additionally, yes, it seems like the whole airport transportation between international airport and domestic airport is quite confusing and frustrating. a clear cut answer from someone involved with the structuring of transportation on a website would be nice, but i don't think they are even clear themselves as to what exactly will be done, so it's in the works? seems like there is a lot that is in the works...

though many are saying good luck in trying to make a change, in a sarcastic manner. i think that starting from many individuals like yourself, a minority can make a major difference in the long run. i'm glad there is someone that has such passion in attempting to make tourism in thailand much more appealing and welcoming just like advertised on millions of ads & word of the mouth.

[tartempion]

A little insignificant but according to yesterday's Bangkok Post (24.3) they've changed the spelling to

Don Mueang

with an extra e in the middle.

I can't see what difference the extra 'e' will make. No one can pronounce the bloody name anyway. Maybe they should change the name to 'Donnybrook' or something?

If you think like that concerning the Thai language, you display in great manner how unwilling you are to try at least. But, if you are that unwilling, why are you here anyway? Thailand doesn't need bloody people like you, not at all. So just go home and citisize your own country !

Ah, a newbie with an attitude

What about putting some mai pen rai in your basket?

Edited March 27, 2007 by tartempion

[Eddie67]

Thanks to Scooty, Hansnl and Avvocato for supporting / furthering my Q's from page 2 re: travel from one airpot to the other / time and cost of this / existence of courtesy shuttle buses etc. I think some of thhe other forum members are too busy having a go at each other to answer these important questions!!

Paw laeo!!! I have a 1 year old who is better behaved than you guys who are constantly slagging each other off!! C'mon. Life's too short and all that!!

Anyways, If anyone can give us any advice then I'm sure we'd appreciate it. Many thanks and kind regards. Pippa

Hello all good folks.

I read yesterday in Bankok Post that Thai is going to start a shuttlebus service between the two airports, which will depart every 30 minutes with a flat rate of 34 Baht.

No information about when it would start though ..

Have a nice day.

Eddie.

[scrunchielaura]

The Thai Airways International has signed a three-year with the Mass Rapid Transit Authority (MRTA) of Thailand in order to rent about 1,500 cubic meters of MRTA land at 450 baht per cubic meter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 March 2007

Hmmm. 1500 cubic meters is about 12 by 12 by 11 meters. What is Thai Airways going to do with a house sized pile of dirt? Oh, I know, they'll fill the runway cracks with it.

Perhaps they are renting 1500 square meters.

[JimGant]

i was unable to make change that night, and at that time of night for someone with family and luggage and real things to control and worry about why should they be subjected to having a bkk taxi driver's response to being handed eithier foreign cash or big bills. i think we all know what can happen....that is the point that no one seems to get here.

I'm not sure you get it....... As a purely domestic operation, why should DMK be equipped to convert money?. Do other Thai domestic transportation stations, i.e., bus and train, have money changers? I would doubt it, since the volume of passengers to Malaysia, Cambodia, and Laos would seem too small to warrant a money changer. And they certainly wouldn't establish a money changer for your situation, namely, changing a 1000 bt note into small denominations. (When DMK gets its restaurants and bars opened, maybe change will be available there for those who didn't adequately pre-plan.)

Sure, international airports (and domestic airports, like Reagan National in Wash DC, that have many connections to international flights) should have money changers to accommodate foreigners. But not DMK, which has no international connections -- at least yet. I'm sure ATM machines will soon be available, if not already, which will handle most folks these days who need a quick baht fix. But a real live person behind a glass cage doesn't seem like an economically sound decision, particularly if its just to change baht to baht.

DMK was an unplanned workaround to a real goat rope. And by most reports, they've done a nice job, considering. And a super job by Thai standards. Shakedown bugs always exist. Take another trip in a month or so, and report back. Meanwhile, cut 'em some slack.

[Payboy]

DMK - just landed there Monday morning on the way back from penang via hatyai. only 2 fligts landed at that time - still luggage came on the belt after 20 minutes! tg's priority tagged bags came out last!

congrats - aot now have not 1 but 2 inefficient airports to serve bangkok!

[dingue2rep]

Don Muang forever!!!

ah the memories, the ease of use, the 7/11 in the building, right on a main road. I would rather go to Don Muang than the new one anyday.

I have never used the new airport, not yet anyway, but the old one worked well for me!

[dominique355]

The ticket that I have just had issued gives it a code of BKM

BKM is the official code for Bakalalan in Malaysia

BKK is for Suvarnabhumi

DMG is for Don Mueang

This pronunciation problem is more real than might at first be thought. I used to be able to simply get into a taxi and pronounce my intended destination as "Airport". Now with a choice of two unpronounceable names I will have to rely on the apartment doorman to brief the taxi driver and that generally means an inflated fare.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I m landing at Suvasomethingorother shortly.

...your worried about unpronounceable names? are you sure you should be coming to Thailand?! Only kiddin! Write this down in your notepad, I'm glad to be of assistance:

ดอนเมือง DMK aka Don Muang

สุวรรณภูมิ Suwanabhumi

Goodluck

KD

May I suggest that we non-Thai adopt the Thai way of pronouncing names, even if the official transliteration is different? In this spirit I would (and I do) pronounce Suwannaphum, where the "ph" is a "p" with an "h", not an "f". If you talk to Thai people and say Suwanabhumi, they will most likely not understand or laught at you.

Why the official transliteration is Suwanabhumi is beyond me.

Similar thing with His Majesty the King's name.

[Paul L]

Might be a silly question. Am I correct in thinking it's the old domestic terminal that is back in service? I had heard that the international terminals would handle the flights?

Thanks

Paul

[Payboy]

Might be a silly question. Am I correct in thinking it's the old domestic terminal that is back in service? I had heard that the international terminals would handle the flights?

Thanks

Paul

yep, it is the old domestic terminal back in service at dm - and i couln't see where that 20 million baht was spent on getting it ready

[jdinasia]

The ticket that I have just had issued gives it a code of BKM

BKM is the official code for Bakalalan in Malaysia

BKK is for Suvarnabhumi

DMG is for Don Mueang

This pronunciation problem is more real than might at first be thought. I used to be able to simply get into a taxi and pronounce my intended destination as "Airport". Now with a choice of two unpronounceable names I will have to rely on the apartment doorman to brief the taxi driver and that generally means an inflated fare.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I m landing at Suvasomethingorother shortly.

...your worried about unpronounceable names? are you sure you should be coming to Thailand?! Only kiddin! Write this down in your notepad, I'm glad to be of assistance:

???????? DMK aka Don Muang

?????????? Suwanabhumi

Goodluck

KD

May I suggest that we non-Thai adopt the Thai way of pronouncing names, even if the official transliteration is different? In this spirit I would (and I do) pronounce Suwannaphum, where the "ph" is a "p" with an "h", not an "f". If you talk to Thai people and say Suwanabhumi, they will most likely not understand or laught at you.

Why the official transliteration is Suwanabhumi is beyond me.

Similar thing with His Majesty the King's name.

if you could rear Thai you'd understand

[Paul L]

Might be a silly question. Am I correct in thinking it's the old domestic terminal that is back in service? I had heard that the international terminals would handle the flights?

Thanks

Paul

yep, it is the old domestic terminal back in service at dm - and i couln't see where that 20 million baht was spent on getting it ready

Thanks PayBoy

[brahmburgers]

สุวรรณภูมิ Suwanabhumi

May I suggest that we non-Thai adopt the Thai way of pronouncing names, even if the official transliteration is different? In this spirit I would (and I do) pronounce Suwannaphum, where the "ph" is a "p" with an "h", not an "f". If you talk to Thai people and say Suwanabhumi, they will most likely not understand or laught at you.

Why the official transliteration is Suwanabhumi is beyond me.

SUWANBUM or SUWANBOOM

Transliteration is used to benefit farang. It's used by farang, not used by Thais, unless they're using it to teach Thai language to farang.

Transliteration should be the spelling of words to convey their sound, as close as possible. Unfortunately, in Thailand, transliteration is very often off the mark. Transliteration of Thai words in to English has become a big mess, mainly with endless unnecessary H's added. it's ridiculous.

If Thai people pronounce the airport as suwanboom, then let's transliterate it as that. Who decided to transliterate it to sound like something much different? Was it to satisfy (or not offend) some Thai scholars. Thais don't even have a 'V' sound in their alphabet, so why include a V in any transliteration?

And the endless unnecessary H's after T's, P's and K's? Someone said it has something to do with 'aspirated' sounds/letters. Aspirated, my ass! If if sounds like a K, write it as a K. If it sounds like a T, write it like a T. If it sounds like a P, write it like a P for Bob's sake. To all the scholars who have spent decades doing transliteration the wrong way (spelling Thai words so they're pronounced wrong by farang), I say get a new job - maybe dog-catcher for a little village somewhere. Your services as a Thai/English scholar are no longer needed. You've already make a big enough mess of the situation. Take an early retirement, go play golf, .....anything but continuing to make the already difficult process of learning Thai more difficult.

oh, and the ridiculous R's used in the wrong places ......don't get me going all over again.

[harrry]

[

oh, and the ridiculous R's used in the wrong places ......don't get me going all over again.

Shall we took rename you Rip Van Winkle. It took you two years to wake up to this post

[tartempion]

Thais don't even have a 'V' sound in their alphabet, so why include a V in any transliteration?

And the endless unnecessary H's after T's, P's and K's? Someone said it has something to do with 'aspirated' sounds/letters. Aspirated, my ass! If if sounds like a K, write it as a K. If it sounds like a T, write it like a T. If it sounds like a P, write it like a P for Bob's sake.

Can you recite the alphabet (sorry for the h after the p), you know A-B-C... in French, German, Danish, Dutch, Portuguese, English?

No you can't, otherwise you would not rant like that .

Clearly the problem lies with the transliteration system.

Soc.cult.thai used to have the only realistic one, but no one here has the knowledge to use it.

When my wife says something where I hear BOT in a sentence and I don't get it, I ask her to repeat that word 5 to 10 times until we agree on whether it's BOD, BOTH(aspired, not your English both), BOT or BODH, BOOD, BOOT, BOOTH etc etc

Youneed to have your ears cleared out if you don't hear the difference between P and Ph etc

[animatic]

The problem lies with these pesky farangs

who couldn't know a thai word pronounced by a thai,

from coptic spoken by a lithuanian turnip farmer.

How could we dare know how anything is pronounced in LOS?

irony sarcasm and snickering inserted here.

[brahmburgers]

Clearly the problem lies with the transliteration system.

Soc.cult.thai used to have the only realistic one, but no one here has the knowledge to use it.

I agree fully with you first sentence, but don't quite understand your second sentence.

What's the problem with spelling things in Roman alphabet - according to how the Thai word sounds when spoken by a Thai? Granted, there will be subtleties, and little regarding languages is perfect.

But jeezo, if you have a town name that sounds like Pechaburee, .....why spell it like Phetchabhuri ?

If the airport sounds like Suwanboom, Why spell it as Suvanabhumi? Is there some group of anal retentive Thais (or regressive minded farang) who will get offended if it's spelled like it sounds? Just wondering.

There are many foreigners who eagerly want to learn as much Thai as their schedules permit. Yet, incorrect transliteration is a stumbling block. It's not a problem to Thais, because they don't read transliteration (why should they?). It's not a problem to old-hand farang, because they can decipher the archaic transliteration protocols with ease (similar to native English speakers who can read the word 'eight' and know instinctively it's pronounced like 'ate').

The issue here is not all the weird spellings for English words, or weird spellings in Thai for Thai words, The issue is simply spelling a Thai word, how it sounds using Roman letters, in order to make it relatively easy for foreigners to pronounce it.

Let's start at THAIVISA.com. It's the most popular farang forum. If we start transliterating Thai words as they sound, then maybe it will catch on. Who's going to get offended by making things simpler? Remember, transliteration is supposed to benefit farang, it's not done to assist Thais - except it may enable Thais to understand farang a bit better when we try speaking their language.

Edited July 8, 2009 by brahmburgers

[WAERTH]

Clearly the problem lies with the transliteration system.

Soc.cult.thai used to have the only realistic one, but no one here has the knowledge to use it.

I agree fully with you first sentence, but don't quite understand your second sentence.

What's the problem with spelling things in Roman alphabet - according to how the Thai word sounds when spoken by a Thai? Granted, there will be subtleties, and little regarding languages is perfect.

But jeezo, if you have a town name that sounds like Pechaburee, .....why spell it like Phetchabhuri ?

If the airport sounds like Suwanboom, Why spell it as Suvanabhumi? Is there some group of anal retentive Thais (or regressive minded farang) who will get offended if it's spelled like it sounds? Just wondering.

There are many foreigners who eagerly want to learn as much Thai as their schedules permit. Yet, incorrect transliteration is a stumbling block. It's not a problem to Thais, because they don't read transliteration (why should they?). It's not a problem to old-hand farang, because they can decipher the archaic transliteration protocols with ease (similar to native English speakers who can read the word 'eight' and know instinctively it's pronounced like 'ate').

The issue here is not all the weird spellings for English words, or weird spellings in Thai for Thai words, The issue is simply spelling a Thai word, how it sounds using Roman letters, in order to make it relatively easy for foreigners to pronounce it.

Let's start at THAIVISA.com. It's the most popular farang forum. If we start transliterating Thai words as they sound, then maybe it will catch on. Who's going to get offended by making things simpler? Remember, transliteration is supposed to benefit farang, it's not done to assist Thais - except it may enable Thais to understand farang a bit better when we try speaking their language.

Nice idea but into which language will you transliterate?

I have had the discussion many times when receiving Thai scripts for movie/tv parts I play. Sometimes they transliterate it for me but it is ununderstandable for me as I am Dutch and they transliterate into English. I often "transliterate" words quite differently from how an English or German or French speaker would do it. It is not as if the whole world has a decent knowledge of English and than even within English I have noticed Americans spelling Thai differently from their UK cousins ....

So what to transliterate in?

I know it is not the most ideal one but at least if they use one transliteration system (like the royal transliteration system from I believe Rama VI) it is something you can get used to and it gets quite easy if you have been here for a couple of years .....

..... provided you speak Thai at a reasonable level.

Waerth

[robint]

who the <deleted> cares

Its just another creative way to make tarnish your visit to the land of sleaze

[brahmburgers]

Nice idea but into which language will you transliterate?

I have had the discussion many times when receiving Thai scripts for movie/tv parts I play. Sometimes they transliterate it for me but it is ununderstandable for me as I am Dutch and they transliterate into English.

Good point. For sure, farang come from a variety of countires. I mention English, because it's probably the most prevalent mother tongue among farang. Plus, most farang understand some English. Yet, all the mention of transliteration (of Thai words) in this thread could be generally applied to any other language.

Incidentally, 'farang' is used in Thailand to denote non-Asian foreigners. That being said, I wouldn't doubt that Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese would prefer to have transliteration from Thai done - SO AS TO CONVEY HOW THE WORDS SOUND as much as possible. That's the whole point. Newbie farang, who are attempting to learn Thai would simply benefit from having the Thai words transliterated HOW THEY SOUND.

Old hands don't care (or don't want a change) because they've adjusted to the old confusing methods.

Instead, we're burdened with a mish-mash of archaic protocols, some dating up to two centuries ago, that have scant semblance to what transliteration should be. In my book; 700 THAI WORDS TAKEN FROM ENGLISH, there are hundreds of Thai words which are transliterated in such a way as to convey their actual sound.

[tartempion]

Using our 26 letters to represent the Thai 44 consonants and 33 vowels?

Good luck with the soc.cult.thai transiteration system then:

The Thai language, or Phasa Thai, basically consists of monosyllable

words, whose meanings are complete by themselves. Its alphabet was

created by King Ramkhamhaeng the Great in 1283 by modelling it on the

ancient Indian alphabets of Sanskrit and Pali through the medium of

old Khmer characters. After a history of over 700 years, the Thai

alphabet today comprises 44 letters (including 2 obsolete ones),

representing 20 consonant phonemes, and 15 vowel signs, denoting 22

vowels, diphthongs and triphthongs.

As Thai is a tonal language with five different tones, it often

confuses foreigners who are unused to this kind of language. For

example, they have difficulty in distinguishing these 3 words from

each other --

* Suea (with rising tone) which means tiger in english

* Suea (with low tone) which means mat in English

* Suea (with falling tone) which means clothes in English

Subject: L.1) The de facto transcription scheme for soc.culture.thai

The transcription scheme was put together by Khun Wirote Aroonmanakun

([email protected]) with great input from many SCT folks,

notably a consonant table from Khun Rob Reed ([email protected]) and

a vowel table from Khun Parames Laosinchai ([email protected]).

44 CONSONANTS

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

k kh kh kh kh kh ng

j ch ch s ch y

d t th th th n

d t th th th n

b p ph f ph f ph m

y r l w s s s h l ? h

Final Sounds

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obstruent Endings: k or g, t or d, p or b

Soronant Endings: ng n m y w

Tone Markers

~~~~~~~~~~~~

- for normal tone / 0

' for low tone / 1

" for falling tone / 2

^ for high tone / 3

+ for rising tone / 4

Basic.Vowels

~~~~~~~~~~~~

a as in ka' (estimate)

aa as in kaa- (crow)

i as in ti' (blame)

ii as in tii- (hit)

U as in ?U' (shit)

UU as in mUU- (hand)

u as in du' (scold)

uu as in duu- (look)

e as in te' (kick)

ee as in thee- (pour)

A as in lA^ (and)

AA as in lAA- (look)

o as in to^ (table)

oo as in to- (big)

O as in kO" (island)

OO as in rOO- (wait)

E as in lE^ (dirty)

EE as in rEE- (Belch)

Compound Vowels

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ua as in yua^ (angry)

uaa as in tuaa- (body)

ia as in pria^ (tight)

iaa as in miaa- (wife)

Ua (no example)

Uaa as in rUaa- (ship)

Excess Vowels (sa'ra'kEEn-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ay or ai as in nay- or nai- (in)

aw or au as in daw- or dau- (guess)

[astral]

A little insignificant but according to yesterday's Bangkok Post (24.3) they've changed the spelling to

Don Mueang

with an extra e in the middle. They said this is a more correct Roman translation of the Thai script. They showed a sign with the new spelling outside the airport.

According to the same article THAI advertise in hard copy with the new spelling and on their website with the old spelling.

The signs on the Vipawadi Rangsit highway have been spelt that way for years,

even before it was closed.

More difficult to get a farang tongue round, like Phatthaya.........

[brahmburgers]

Using our 26 letters to represent the Thai 44 consonants and 33 vowels?

Agreed, there's no way perfection can be achieved. Even pronunciations of Thai words among Thais are disputed, as are varying pronunciations of some English words among native English speakers.

The transcription scheme was put together by Khun Wirote Aroonmanakun

With all due respect to Kun Wirote, he's a Thai person at least as much as he's a scholar. Being Thai, he can't help but be disposed to respecting Thai traditions, such as how Thai words are spelled in Thai. Because transliteration is designed to benefit foreigners (not Thais), it would best be done by foreigners. Here's the best method: have one or more Thais pronounce a word, and have the foreigner transliterate it as close as possible to its sound. Granted, there needs to be protocol, so the process is standardized. I suggest wiping the slate clean of all the centuries old confusing protocols, and start anew. Granted, it's doubtful it will happen (because traditions are so deep set), but the idea needs to be floated.

Edited July 10, 2009 by brahmburgers