The very clear message that came out of Ijustwannateach's statement titled, The State of the Industry, is that people are advised NOT to come and teach in Thailand at the present time and with the present uncertain political climate, especially those not already in the system (and even those within the system are suffering huge frustrating problems).

For those people who have a close affinity with Thailand, those people who have created lives in Thailand, and those who simply wish to be in Thailand, this is a very disappointing reality and, as already said, very frustrating. Some people who contributed to the thread including Jimjim, engrin and sniperteam6 suggested alternatives to teaching in Thailand, countries within east Asia. I suppose that the advantage of teaching in a country close-by is that, apart from better pay and less hassle - apparently, Taiwan, Japan and S.Korea etc., it would still be possible to maintain a link with Thailand and be able to travel over occasionally (almost an impossibility within europe). This offers some comfort as a possible alternative to those people who don't want to break off links with Thailand or Asia altogether. Anyway, to get to the point, can people please elaborate. It is all very well simply suggesting that going to places like Japan, S.Korea and Taiwan is a better idea, but for those of us who took interest in such thoughts, well, can you please elaborate a little bit. To do such a thing is a major step, and we need to know more pro's and con's from people that have experienced both places, and people who would prefer to be in Thailand given a reasonable choice.

Taiwan is a pretty easy place to work. Of course some schools are better than others. So finding the right match is important.If you have a degree, you're set. If you don't you may still be able to get a working visa depending on the connections of your employer. 1 baht = .98 NewTaiwan Dollars. They are pretty much equal right now. 600 NT an hour is a average good starting rate for teaching. Agents are usually no good. Most recommend to go there on your own and interview around. The Taiwanese put education first. They go to day school and when they are finished they go to night schools. There are several Taiwanese that want private lessons too. So there are a variety of ways to make money. The Taiwanese economy is strong because of their work ethic. They have lots of disposable income. A group of business associates will want to learn English at night from a foreigner because they want to improve their English and they are bored staying home. Privates usually pay 800 or more an hour. 1000 is the lowest I would take. While in Taiwan it was easy to own a car, a scooter (motorbike), rent an apartment (NOT A ROOM). An apartment there will have at least 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, flushing toilets (STANDARD), a kitchen, hot water (STANDARD) , air cons (USUALLY), and sometimes be fully furnished too. Apartments are in abundance. 7,000 and up. It's easy to travel the country because its so small. In the south there are beaches that get good weather for most of the year. Taiwanese girls are hot but not as domestic or friendly as Thai ladies. The teaching environment is different though from what I've seen here in Thailand. They want games, songs, activities. Most kids will do their homework. Will memorize the book too in some cases. It depends on what kind of school though, just some general statements here that should be eaten with salt. There's a good nightlife there. Bars are more expensive, you wont find beers for under 100. Foreigners have more rights and are protected by the employment act. Although everything is in Chinese, getting around can be easy if you have a Lonely Planet and join some of the internet forums. There are lots of jobs available all the time. It's cheap to travel to other countries in SEA. Most the people I know take holidays twice a year and leave the country. The work there is more stressful and the weather can be very hot and humid and very cold in the winter. When it rains, it can rain for a week at a time, so its very cold riding around on a scooter.

why doesnt singapore seem like a good choice? just curious cause I dont see alot of farang teaching english there? is it possible to get a gig there? im sure the salary would be on par with taiwan to say the least. I met a farang girl the said she got a position there a couple of years ago.

p.s i know the country already speaks english and chinese.

The obvious place to go if you have a degree and a fair amount of experience is the Gulf, Saudi, UAE, Qatar or Kuwait. If you get a job at a school or university you should manage three months holiday a year to spend in Thailand. If you have a wife and are childless you can bring the wife with you, or even, if you're very highly qualified, find a job where they will pay the kids schooling.

The place to look for jobs is http://www.eslcafe.com and http://www.tefl.com It is quite common for Gulf employers to hire on the basis of telephone interviews if you have a strong resume. You've just missed TESOL Arabia, but the real hiring season is May to July.

Any queries and PM me.

Edited April 16, 200719 yr by stevejones123

With Taiwan, your family automatically gets dependant visas that mirror your working visa. Just take you marriage cert to Taiwan embassy in BKK and have them notarize it. If you marry a Taiwanese you can automatically stay in the country AND work indefinitely. No need for border runs, checking in every 90 days, proof of income, it's a free ride!

OK, alternatives to teaching in Thailand ...

China would be the one that comes to mind first. It's still relatively easy to find a teaching job in China these days, as compared to the others mentioned (Japan, Taiwan, Korea). There is a HUGE demand in China, much more than in other nations who can then choose to be pickier.

Salaries paid are usually not great, but at the same time usually enough to live on comfortably. You probably won't save much, but will be able to live fairly well. All decent schools take care of the working visa/other formalities.

There are other alternatives - but those have already been mentioned. IMO, China would be the best alternative ...

Those people who have replied - thank you. I would also to be interested to hear more about Korea as it sounds the best place for money, but my own experience of teaching S.Korean students is that they can be quite badly behaved compared to Thais and Japanese students (who are the best behaved). Those people who have been suggesting to others that Thailand is not the place to teach at the present time, will you be considering alternatives yourselves to Thailand yourselves? (especially those who have already taught elsewhere). Cheers. Jessy.

China does look good and far better than Korea and Taiwan for sure.

I hear the salaries in China are the same as Thailand (crap!) Also would you want to live in China? Probably not especially coming from Thailand. You're not going to find good food or clean air over there, or even clean food for that matter...I did some research on China and if you have a look at the job postings, the money is not good at all. I've heard that SOME can make good money there, but I really don't think its the norm.

I hear Korea is great for money. If you have a degree you are set. You can teach without a degree but it would be illegal. It's easy to get a 6 month tourist visa though.

I met some teachers who work in Hong Kong and they tell me the money is fantastic there. I believe Hk gives 3 months landing visa? They pay for holidays and they actually care about education.

Money in Japan is good but the living expenses are high.

I hear the salaries in China are the same as Thailand (crap!)

That's true. Salaries aren't very high for the most part - but you can generally live pretty well on whatever they provide (though you likely won't save anything).

Also would you want to live in China? Probably not especially coming from Thailand. You're not going to find good food or clean air over there, or even clean food for that matter...

I'd disagree pretty strongly here. You can find plenty of all that, and more in China - if you know where to look.

I did some research on China and if you have a look at the job postings, the money is not good at all. I've heard that SOME can make good money there, but I really don't think its the norm.

Right - some can make good money but not most.

I met some teachers who work in Hong Kong and they tell me the money is fantastic there. I believe Hk gives 3 months landing visa? They pay for holidays and they actually care about education.

HK actually has "visas upon entry". Some nationalites get 15 days on entry, some uptil 30 days, some (very few) 3 months. Though, this is NOT a work visa - you cannot work legally on that visa.

I think the salaries are pretty good inHK, but then again, they dont need English teachers that bad.

Do most of these places require degrees? And are there part time teaching jobs? Thanks.

A lot of places don't require degree, just a white face (not trying to be politically incorrect here, just honest).

But, most of the places that pay better will require at least a degree, and some of them will want a TEFL certificate too. That being said, there are PLENTY of schools that fall into the former category.

Dongguan, If the money is no good, why is it your opinion that China is the best alternative? It's a communist country too! Surely Taiwan, Korea, Japan, or Hong Kong are far better in terms of money. Aren't most looking teachers looking for a place where they can save for retirement, support a Thai family, or pay for a house somewhere? A friend of mine in China said, "China is hard on the soul, harder than Taiwan." Chinese culture is different than Thai culture. The Chinese are very reserved, don't care about the environment, or each other for that matter!!!

Dongguan, If the money is no good, why is it your opinion that China is the best alternative? It's a communist country too!

Well, first off as far as the money part goes, it is good enough to live comfortably on. Further living costs are low, much lower than the other countries you mentioned, especially in interior China. Also, there are the minor conveniences that come by virture of living in a 3rd world , such as free home delivery for just about anything, cheap household help, etc etc - none of this would apply in HK, Korea, or Japan ...

Surely Taiwan, Korea, Japan, or Hong Kong are far better in terms of money.

Far more expensive to live there though.

Aren't most looking teachers looking for a place where they can save for retirement, support a Thai family, or pay for a house somewhere?

Some may be, not everyone though, not from where I can see. In fact, the majority of teachers in these countries seem to be young, and looking for a teaching position either to enjoy life in a foreign country for a while and earn at the same time, OR just hanging on till they find another, higher paying opportunity.

Most of the retiree types already HAVE money saved up from a previous life, or are working in high paying jobs anyway.

A friend of mine in China said, "China is hard on the soul, harder than Taiwan."

I don't know - Thats probably just a personal opinion though. I've known people that hated Taiwan, but loved China.

Chinese culture is different than Thai culture. The Chinese are very reserved, don't care about the environment, or each other for that matter!!!

Can't comment too much sinceI dontknow much about Thai culture, but I don't think the Chinese are too reserved, or don't care about the environment (not any less than any of the other third world countries, at any rate).

I think a lot of the stories you get coming out from China are very personal in nature. Those who liked it are still there and don't talk much about it. Those who left, maybe left because of negative experiences.

I've talked to several teachers who have taught in China and then came to Thailand. One hated China, mainly because of of a negative employer. The rest liked China and are going back because they can't deal with the BS here. The general impression I got is that China can have BS jobs and good jobs. If you get a good one, China's a breeze. If you get a bad one, you just blow out of the country. If you get a bad job in Thailand, you find another and another and you just deal with the BS because you are only working for one reason, to be in Thailand.

Which boils down to the big difference. People teach in China because they either want to teach or they want a job, not because they love the Chinese lifestyle. People teach in Thailand because they love the Thai lifestyle and need money to support themselves, not because they want to teach.

I am working in South Korea. I have been here for a year after two and a half years teaching in Thailand.

I came here b/c of the money. It is like anywhere else, there are good schools and bad schools, you are a farang and don't have much say.

Quick facts:

-you must have a degree and transcripts

-normal contract is: 2000 USD per month (this is roughly saying 1000 Korean Won is equal to 1USD. 40 baht=1000 won..really rough), return airfare, end of contract bonus(one months pay), furnished studio apartment, (ususally very small but has everything, kitchen washing machine etc).

-I work 2:00-8:30. no planning, just show up 30 min before class.

-class sizes are 1-12 students.

-korean students are not as well behaved as Thai students but b/c the classes are much smaller it evens out.

-vacation is usually only 10 days per year assigned by the school (usually October and July). There are not a lot of national holidays.

-1-3 sick days (but no one calls in sick in Korea!)

-you can arrange a visa before arrival (involves sending your degree and transcripts to korea first) then its just a trip to the immigration office once you are here. You get an alien card and you dont have to do anything again until the year is up. If you get a new contract after that year you do not have to leave the country.

This is your average hogwon (academy or language school) job. There are public and private school jobs as well but the package is usually the same. You can make up to 2.5 depending on how much experience you have in Korea and if you want an apt or not. This is for people with just a B.A or B.S.

The big bonus of working here is the private tutoring. For example I teach 3 students at their homes one on one, for an hour and charge 30-50 USD per hour depending on how many times I see them in a week and how far away they live. So basically if you want to work more you can just bank your salary and live off the money you make from tutoring, but this is illegal and if you get caught you will probably be deported. People who teach in other schools illegally run a bigger risk of being caught then those who teach in the students homes. basically most farang teachers teach private students.

The cost of living in Korea is not high. You can eat for very cheap and you pay your utilities in your apt which is about 100-200 USD a month. There is a very big expat community here or at least a big community of foreign teachers. Lots of bars and nightlife.

Thai nationals can stay in Korea for up to 3 months without a visa. The first time my bf came to visit me he was detained by immigration b/c there is a lot of Thai's who come to work illegally but after that I just wrote him a letter with a copy of my alien card and he has not had a problem.

I am returning to Thailand as that is where I have always wanted to be but it is nice to now have a connection to Korea seeing as the money is so much better here. Koreans are very eager to learn English and are will pay!

You can also work camps in summer and winter break. Usually 3-4 weeks for 2-4000 USD, accomodation and food paid for.

Check out www.pusanweb.com

PM me if you have more questions.

Meme