Thailand Hits Bottom Of Regional Economies

[solo siam]

Farmers always have a fairly rough ride of it, unless they are heavily subsidised like back in the UK (my local farmer was paid a lot of money NOT to farm his land).

One can not compare farm subsidies to US or UK farmers to the situation in Thailand as the they represent a very small percentage of the populace in those countries. I believe the US farm subsidies go to a mere 25,000 farmers.

Farmers tend to have a rough go of it because the processors and middlemen make great efforts to insure that the producers of raw materials, whether agricultural or other natural resources, are paid little in order for these corporate folks to increase their profits. That is why in the US ADM continuously makes huge profits and farmers becomes destitute. The economy is structured so that poor rural people do not make much profit.

Again, no big social problem in the US or UK where we are talking small numbers, an entirely different story in Thailand where the rural poor make up a far larger percentage of the population.

I fail to see the significance, has anyone got any data that shows the Thai farmers are suffering or performing poorly in relation to the regional economies?

No-ones disputing that small scale farmers in developing countries aren't particularly well paid.

Thailand is the only net food exporter in Asia, the number one producer of rubber, rice, canned/frozen seafood but surprisingly the kingdoms number one and two exports are electrical machinery, equipment and appliances.

nearly 50 billion$ of exports in those two categories alone, rising at a rate of 18% year on year.

[bonobo]

while europe and the usa are very rich they are decaying. there is a negetive birth rate an older population and an ever increasing inflow of immigrants from poor countries that are changing the culture and the economy and not for the better. go anf fix up your own countries before lecturing us about education ignorence and so forth..

I am glad you know that increasing immigration from a wider cultural pool is changing the USA for the worse.  I am glad that you are taking the opportunity of this Thai forum to lecture those of us from these decaying nations on how bad we are.  I rather thought that the high desire for immigrants to move to the US was an indication that the country had something to offer, not that it was in its last throes. I stand correct due to your better and more open-minded views.

This is a forum on all things Thai. So it is hardly surprising that people with an interest in Thailand, whether they love it or hate it--or a little bit of both--would post here.  So your continual admonitions for everyone to clean up their home countries seems rather pathetic.  There are plenty of forums to discuss US, EU, Japanese, or any other economic or political issues.  And there is nothing you can post which would be harsher than what is posted there.

This is a Thai forum, and the US economy is not at issue here, except on how it might affect Thailand. Your insights on Thailand are often quite illuminating for me, but when you go off on the US or UK, as you often seem to do, I just get a glaze over my eyes and tune out.

[ThaiGoon]

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism)

Export and tourism account for about 60% of Thailand's GDP.

And Somtaamgaiyaang, plenty of Thai entrepreneurs (i.e. business owners not employees) have become successful without a real "rich daddy" or corrupt connections. No offense, but you were disrespecting those good honest hardworking people with that ignorant and stupid comment of yours.

And the point that I've been trying to argue regarding Thai economy (and I haven't been bothered to do so recently) is that it's not destined for a collapse like so many who have proclimed the love for Thailand on here have said. Sure it's down right now. But it's still far from completely going down the tube like some "acknowledgeable Thailand enthusiasts" keep banging their heads on. That's why I've been posting those positive economic news.

Edited April 22, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[bingobongo]

reality is delicious Thaigoon, have a taste......

Thailand to weigh new foreign business ownership rules

"Many Japanese companies are very concerned about the new law," said Tetsuji Banno, head of the Japanese Chamber of Commerce. "If they don't understand it well, they may put new investment elsewhere."

Foreign investment applications in September 2006 through February 2007 dropped about 49 percent from a year earlier.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/22/news/baht.php

[frikkiedeboer]

The only way to really get ahead in bangkok is to have a rich dad or have corrupt connections.

I have to say this is a really ignorant and extremely stupid statement to make. Plenty of Thais have become successful through hard work and honesty. It's really disrespectful to those people for some farang idiot to say things like this.

could you name one of these people please...........................................?

[vermin on arrival]

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism)

Export and tourism account for about 60% of Thailand's GDP.

And Somtaamgaiyaang, plenty of Thai entrepreneurs (i.e. business owners not employees) have become successful without a real "rich daddy" or corrupt connections. No offense, but you were disrespecting those good honest hardworking people with that ignorant and stupid comment of yours.

And the point that I've been trying to argue regarding Thai economy (and I haven't been bothered to do so recently) is that it's not destined for a collapse like so many who have proclimed the love for Thailand on here have said. Sure it's down right now. But it's still far from completely going down the tube like some "acknowledgeable Thailand enthusiasts" keep banging their heads on. That's why I've been posting those positive economic news.

TG,

Yes tourism really is an economic boon for Thailand. I do wonder how the change in policy towards foreigners will effect this in the long term(maybe not much, but maybe more than you think), and I've heard conflicting opinions on whether the industry is doing well or poorly now. I think that the export industries will be hurt by the rise in the value of the baht, and I really think that the main people who reap the benfits are the really wealthy. I'm very suprised that the numer of Thai electronics that are exported. I suspect that they go to countries like Cambodia as I genrally found them to be not of such high quality when I used them(maybe I was just unlucky).

I've never gotten the impression that there was a lot of upward social mobility in Thailand. The gap between the rich and poor seems to be staggeringly large. What percentage of the population even has a college education, or a high school one for that matter? There really seems to be no major educational reform in sight. The date which was constitutionally required for universal high school education passed during Thaksin's regime with barely a comment about it's being unfulfilled. I believe this bodes poorly for the long term outlook for the country and its economy. Other countries in the region like India, Vietnam and China, put much more of an emphasis on this, and Thailand lags behind.

I know there are Thais who work hard and make something of themselves, but the number that pull themselves up must be a small percentage. I think it must be quite difficult without connections, and if you are not from the upper classes.

As an aside, and I hope people won't take this the wrong way, a friend of mine who once managed Thais said that if they talked about work as much as they talked about what they were going to have or had for lunch, the business would be booming. However, as many people have said this is part of the reason many people like to live in Thailand-as a genralization the people have a real social ethic as opposed to a work ethic(excluding the Thai Indians and Chinese).

Thailand may not be heading for a collapse, but I don't share your optimism about the state of the kingdom and its economy now. Between the situation in the South, the political turmoil/instability from Thaksin, the ultra-nationalism of the CNS, and the negative attitude towards foreigners in official government policy, it really seems that the preponderence of evidence points to some hard times for the Thai economy and Thai people. The uncertainty has to hurt business. How long before it ends?

[LaoPo]

I fail to see the significance, has anyone got any data that shows the Thai farmers are suffering or performing poorly in relation to the regional economies?

No-ones disputing that small scale farmers in developing countries aren't particularly well paid.

Thailand is the only net food exporter in Asia, the number one producer of rubber, rice, canned/frozen seafood but surprisingly the kingdoms number one and two exports are electrical machinery, equipment and appliances.

nearly 50 billion$ of exports in those two categories alone, rising at a rate of 18% year on year.

I found this article, claiming that "Thai food exports on the rise" althoug it's from September 12th, 2006

Have a look:

http://www.ap-foodtechnology.com/news/ng.a...rts-euromonitor

LaoPo

[endure]

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism)

Export and tourism account for about 60% of Thailand's GDP.

And Somtaamgaiyaang, plenty of Thai entrepreneurs (i.e. business owners not employees) have become successful without a real "rich daddy" or corrupt connections. No offense, but you were disrespecting those good honest hardworking people with that ignorant and stupid comment of yours.

And the point that I've been trying to argue regarding Thai economy (and I haven't been bothered to do so recently) is that it's not destined for a collapse like so many who have proclimed the love for Thailand on here have said. Sure it's down right now. But it's still far from completely going down the tube like some "acknowledgeable Thailand enthusiasts" keep banging their heads on. That's why I've been posting those positive economic news.

TG,

Yes tourism really is an economic boon for Thailand. I do wonder how the change in policy towards foreigners will effect this in the long term(maybe not much, but maybe more than you think), and I've heard conflicting opinions on whether the industry is doing well or poorly now. I think that the export industries will be hurt by the rise in the value of the baht, and I really think that the main people who reap the benfits are the really wealthy. I'm very suprised that the numer of Thai electronics that are exported. I suspect that they go to countries like Cambodia as I genrally found them to be not of such high quality when I used them(maybe I was just unlucky).

I suspect that a lot of the electronics talked about are computer parts, hard disks, keyboards, circuit boards etc.

[Morty]

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism)

Export and tourism account for about 60% of Thailand's GDP.

Well Goon, that means that Thailand needs 10.8 % increase in GDP just to correct the bath appreciation (witch was 18%) for those 60% last year, since it's measured in $. with a 4.5% total increase in GDP it seams to me that we have an actual depreciation of over 7%(since domestic sales also are quoted in $) and this year even looking worse, how does that bode well for the Thai people who will suffer from the lesser GDP, add to that the high rate of loan financed local economy (with chanotes as security) combined with little or no foreign capital coming into the Thai economy?

Less money in the marked will mean a higher interest rate, and less risk taking from foreign lenders.

Some people might say that is good for the Thai economy, I'm not.

I'm not very concerned about this, since my money live their life outside of Thailand, but I can see an increase in Thais losing their land and other collaterals witch in turn will make an increase in unemployment, leading desperate people to commit crimes like robbing, theft, kidnapping, human trafficking and so on. So everyone living in Thailand should be concerned about this.

PS!

where I live in Thailand we already see an increase in this, and I can assure you most of it never gets to the news rags.

Good luck!!

[Sojourner]

" Pure abject unadulterated ignorance "- what do you attribute this to ? I have noticed the average Thai ( I dont mean senior executives,

college lecturers etc ) but just average people don't seem to have any interest or awareness as to what is going on in other

parts of the world and how these factors could ultimately affect their own lifestyle / businesses ?

When most Thais are sitting on the bottom rung of the Maslow pyramid they are more concerned about where the next meal is coming from.

[jumnien]

Typical farang paranoia...

[cdnvic]

Typical farang paranoia...

But then again, nothing is ever wrong in Thailand as far as you're concerned is it?

[LaoPo]

Thailand is.............................. but surprisingly the kingdoms number one and two exports are electrical machinery, equipment and appliances.

nearly 50 billion$ of exports in those two categories alone, rising at a rate of 18% year on year.

Those 2006 statistics, if you look at them, are still quite impressive.

However, if you look at the #'s 1, 2, 3, and 6 these are typical industries who largely depend on foreign buyers and/or -owners, their know-how, R&D, the investment capital, and thus, Thailand is vulnarable in these sectors...

If production costs and -labor will become more expensive, and that's just a matter of time, the same buyers and/or owners will move their buying/production facilities elsewhere and the growth numbers will decline substantially.

The signals that that will happen are there already; the government has to act....quickly.

LaoPo

[somtaamgaiyang]

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism)

Export and tourism account for about 60% of Thailand's GDP.

And Somtaamgaiyaang, plenty of Thai entrepreneurs (i.e. business owners not employees) have become successful without a real "rich daddy" or corrupt connections. No offense, but you were disrespecting those good honest hardworking people with that ignorant and stupid comment of yours.

And the point that I've been trying to argue regarding Thai economy (and I haven't been bothered to do so recently) is that it's not destined for a collapse like so many who have proclimed the love for Thailand on here have said. Sure it's down right now. But it's still far from completely going down the tube like some "acknowledgeable Thailand enthusiasts" keep banging their heads on. That's why I've been posting those positive economic news.

I beg to differ:

This is quoted from Forbes Magazine

40 richest Thais have combined $20 billion​

Bangkok Post, 18th July 2006

Thailand's 40 richest business figures have a combined net worth of US$20 billion, evenly split between old and new wealth, according to Forbes magazine.

Thailand's 40 Richest list, to be published in the July 24 edition of Forbes Asia, shows that at least a third of the country's super-rich are self-made entrepreneurs who built fortunes from scratch.

The list was compiled at a turbulent time for the country and its tycoons. Billionaire politician Thaksin Shinawatra, who ranks fourth, has faced unrelenting pressure for months over his family's sale of their 49.6% stake in Shin Corp tax-free to Singaporean investors.

Another mogul, Thai Beverage founder Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi, who topped the list at $3.2 billion in net worth, took his company public in Singapore after protesters objected to an alcohol company listing on the Stock Exchange of Thailand.

The second richest person on the list, Chaleo Yoovidhya created the formula for the popular energy drink Red Bull. With $2.7 billion, he owns a 49% share of the company. Mr Chaleo also owns TC Pharmaceuticals, the maker of Krating Daeng energy drinks for the Thai market, and holds a stake in Piyavate Hospital.

About half of Thailand's top 40 inherited their fortunes and often share them with extended families. Wanchai Chirathivat, the fifth richest at $1.2 billion, is one example. He chairs the Central Group, with interests in retailing, real estate, hotels and resorts. Its main business is the Central Retail Corp, with sales of $1.7 billion, being the country's largest retailer. Many family members work at Central and as many as 45 relatives share in the fortune.

Sixth on the list at $860 million, the Vongkusolkit family is seeing sweet returns as the Mitr Phol Sugar Corp celebrates its 50th anniversary. The country's largest producer and exporter of sugar is diversifying into biomass power and plans to operate two bioethanol fuel plants.

Media magnate Vichai Maleenont, the chairman of the BEC World media group, also has several family members operating the Maleenont group of companies. He oversees a collection of TV, radio, Internet and video-rental interests that have earned the family an estimated $475 million.

Somporn Jungrungreangkit is the only woman in the top 10. Ranked 10th with a net worth of $420 million, Ms Somporn took over the reins of Thai Summit, one of the country's largest auto-parts groups, after her husband's death in 2002. She now oversees more than a dozen companies as the group president. Her brother-in-law, Suriya Jungrungreangkit, is the acting deputy prime minister.

To compile the list, Forbes Asia looked at family shareholdings in public as well as private companies. Publicly traded fortunes were calculated using recent share prices and exchange rates. For private fortunes, it estimated what the firms and assets would be worth if they were public.

Quoted

"A colleague pointed out an interesting article on the Internet this morning, concerning a survey by the magazine of Money & Banking and Chulalongkorn University and it listed the richest people in Thailand.

Want to guess who is the richest person in Thailand? Some frugal old man who has worked all his life and saved his money? A financial genius? The founder of one of the world's biggest software makers?

Nope. The richest man in Thailand is a young man named Pinthongtha Shinawatra. He is worth 18.03 billion baht (about US$450 million). How did he get his money? He got it from his father, Thaksin Shinawatra who had to give it away before he could become the Prime Minister of Thailand.

Other Shinawatra's in the list included:

#2 Thaksin's brother-in-law Bannapot Damapong -- 15.27 billion baht (US$381.75 million)

#4 Thaksin's son Panthongtae Shinawatra -- 11.09 billion baht (US$277.25 million)

#28 Thakin's youngest daughter (still in college, and if I'm not mistaken, has/had a part-time job at McDonalds) 1.42 billion baht (US$35.5 million).

#65 Thaksin's younger sister

#321 Thaksin's wife

Now, I don't mind people being rich. Someone has to do it. But I think that one paragraph stands out more than the rest:

Ten leading families with close ties to the government altogether controlled over 40 percent of the market capitalization of the Stock Exchange of Thailand, with over 10 percent held by the prime minister's family alone, [suriyasai Katasila, secretary-general of the Campaign for Popular Democracy] was quoted by the Bangkok Post as saying.

Since I don't have any access to these 10 families, I don't think I will be investing in the Thai stock market any time soon.

(The whole article can be found at http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-12/...2082.htm)"

Quoted

This pattern is repeated throughout Southeast Asia. The 28 million ethnic Chinese who are scattered across the region are economic miracle workers, making crucial contributions to the rapid development that has characterized Southeast Asia during the last forty years. In most of their adopted countries, the achievements of the ethnic Chinese are out of all proportion to their numbers. In Indonesia, where they are less than 4 per cent of the population, they have 75 per cent of the wealth. In Thailand, Chinese represent 8 per cent of the population but control 80 per cent of the wealth. The numbers are even more amazing in the Philippines: less than 2 per cent and 70 per cent. Even in the backward economies-Burma, Cambodia, and Vietnam-Chinese entrepreneurs are behind the vast majority of private business ventures.

So exactly where are the THAI entrepreneurs?

If you look at the top 10 companies on the stock market, only one of them "Land and House" is not working under some form government granted license of a sort which grants them preferential treatment or protection. You patently do not understand the connections between big business and politics and land ownership in Thailand. The wealth of this country is concentrated into the hands of very few people, and not much of it is new money. The richest one, the whiskey king lives behind a veil of import duties, and very cheap sugar cane. Most of these companies started their boom in the 70's and 80's as the country started to develop economically.

Where will the next large group of "entrepreneurs" come from in Thailand? They will be the siblings of these families. There will be no Thai Bill Gates, no Richard Branson, and certainly no Warren Buffet. They will not develop anything new, they will simply spread their wealth amongst other industries and use their connections to protect them from true competition. Many are working for foreign banks in Bangkok providing access to connections in Thailand or are entering politics either locally or nationally. Those that work for other companies, often get pulled back into the family company after getting frustrated at earning 50,000 a month.

We have just had a prime minister who was the epitomy of new money and look how far it got him. It does say that many were self made. Many had government help in the granting of licenses and concessions to give them a competitive advantage. This is why Thaksin was so dangerous, he broke the old mould. Land and House just got a banking license. One of his cabinet was from the family of Land and House.

Are these businesses really entrepreneurial?

Thaksin himself hid behind IMIE coding to give him a monopoly on phones as well as the network for years. I remember the days that we had to pay 1000 usd for a phone. This was only broken when Orange entered the market. They were certainly put in their place. It cost AIS billions in revenue and now we can buy a phone for a few thousand baht. Who was head of the telecommunications ministry when he had the idea? A certain man who has been prime minister several times and was part of Taksin's recent government.

Where are the new entrepreneurs going to come from? Relying on protected industries and government granted monopolies (connections) is the way to gain wealth in this country. I know that billionaires do not represent the majority of the country, and I apologise to those that are honest and hardworking if I have offended them. I have respect for people who "do it themselves" so to say.

However, one obviously can see that at the top of Thai society there is a clique that is creating the vast majority of the wealth of the country. The best company in the country is CP which about 15 years ago took its time to decide that it would move famliy members out of the management of the company and employ professional management. However, who is at the forefront of the law to control foreign retailing and ownership of hotels? Good luck to Mr. Red Bull, but would he be as wealthy as he is without the help of his Austrian partner. Red Bull is now 25 years old.

Honesty is a relative measurement and business must do what it has to do to get by in this country. I know many many small business owners who chuck thousands at the tax man to get him to disappear. I know property developers who pay off the land office. Exporters all know that the most corrupt organisation in the country is customs. Do most companies in Thailand pay the correct level of corporate tax? I will leave you to answer.

Who has all the export contracts for agricultural products in the country? About 15 very well connected Thai Chinese families in Bangkok. Young people in Thailand are entrepreneurial, but without capital they cannot get ahead. Wealth begets wealth, hence why one sees the sons of magnates getting contracts in so called new business such as marketing or importation of various products.

Why is the use of nominees such a huge issue now? Because a lot of wealth has been created by having to ally a company with a connected person to get business done. I have worked for several companies here and seen it. Did these board members bring value for money? Not really. Companies started using silent nominees removing the sphere of influence of the connected, and removing a very significant earning stream for essentially doing nothing.

As long as banks lend money on the basis of the value of collateral to back up the loan, as opposed to discounted future cash flow, those with the assets will accumulate more assets. A farmers son could find the cure for cancer out in the countryside, but I doubt very much that we will ever hear about it.

[vermin on arrival]

Somtamgaiyang,

Very interesting and enlightening post. Not that the conclusions are very suprising.

I remember when Orange came in and got dicked around left and right until they gave up and, I believe, sold out to their Thai partners.

A number of months ago, a short time after the coup, I remember reading an article in the nation in which the author stated that approximately 100 families were basically in charge of the country. These families were high up in the police, in the army, from the old feudal landed aristocracy, and included some nouveaux riche like Thaksin. Both political and economic power are closely related. It must be really hard to break through these networks and get a piece of the pie.

[StateSix]

" Pure abject unadulterated ignorance "- what do you attribute this to ? I have noticed the average Thai ( I dont mean senior executives,

college lecturers etc ) but just average people don't seem to have any interest or awareness as to what is going on in other

parts of the world and how these factors could ultimately affect their own lifestyle / businesses ?

When most Thais are sitting on the bottom rung of the Maslow pyramid they are more concerned about where the next meal is coming from.

Isn't that the same in most countries? The average man in the sreet may take a passing interest in their countries economy, but is unlikely to have a deep conversation with their friends about world economic issues and the potential impact on their life. This is partly because they don't understand it, partly because it is boring and partly, as Sojourner says, because they are busy, and more concerned in the short term, with feeding themeselves and family.

[Temporaneo]

Visa changes are one of the top reasons people are moving to Thailand. At least here in Hua Hin, many people got very tired of 30 day visa runs to Ranong. Now that they have been prodded into obtaining 1 year visas, they feel far more comfortable in staying here on a long term basis.

You mean they should be glad to have to fly back to Europe (paying at least 2,000 $ for air ticket and accomodation) each 9 months to get a multi-entry tourist visa instead of previous visa runs that costed just 2,000 baht all inclusive ?

Do you by any chance work at the "Thai Elite Card" program ?

Your way of reasoning resembles a lot that of thai officers thinking to reverse the card flop by tripling the membership fee.

[Temporaneo]

You do not need to be an economist to understand that Thailand is doomed if it continues in the current direction. It suffices to ask

the following question: What Thailand can produce that China cannot?

The answer is nothing. China can produce anything that Thailand does but cheaper, much cheaper...

Thaksin tried to put Thailand in the direction of Japan, Singapore, South Korea etc. Did he have a chance? I do not know but the mentality of present leadreship of Thailand simply leave no room for successful future...

Excellent post Mr Blam..

Thats a very weak argument, you could say that every other economy apart from China is doomed according to your statement.

Japan, South Korean and Singapore didn't start out the hard graft to success through corruption, croneyism, backhanders and the leaders certainly didn't swindle their way out of paying billions of dollars of taxes - I'm sure that hasn't been particularly useful to the economy.

This last high season here in Phuket was the biggest ever, Some massive names are taking a stake in Phuket and Thailand, including some of the Asian, Arab and European big boys, an economy isn't solely about manufacturing - else China would already be massively richer than the USA.

Here is some data from the World Bank for exports, Thailand most often shows the second biggest growth after China.

and for GDP in E.Asia, Thailand has one of the most stable GDP's

I fail to see how this data corresponds to the death of the Thai economy, quite the opposite it is shown to be perhaps the most stable economy in the region.

Rather then "stable" I would call it "static".

Just compare the 4q2006 data: Thailand 4.2 East Asia 7.6

And private consumption in February was down 1.8% yoy.

I think no other country in the region has ever gone through a private consumption decrease in the latest 5 years.

Edited April 23, 2007 by Temporaneo

[highdiver]

while europe and the usa are very rich they are decaying. there is a negetive birth rate an older population and an ever increasing inflow of immigrants from poor countries that are changing the culture and the economy and not for the better. go anf fix up your own countries before lecturing us about education ignorence and so forth..

I am glad you know that increasing immigration from a wider cultural pool is changing the USA for the worse.  I am glad that you are taking the opportunity of this Thai forum to lecture those of us from these decaying nations on how bad we are.  I rather thought that the high desire for immigrants to move to the US was an indication that the country had something to offer, not that it was in its last throes. I stand correct due to your better and more open-minded views.

please dont ake things out of context. the reply above was part of an on going debate with westerners that were discussing how thailand is wrong and how the west is better, furthermore It was a chalenge to those "know it all" economists that economy is not an easy game in the west or the east and that even if it is not understood eaxh country needs to take care of it own before looking out for others.

This is a forum on all things Thai. So it is hardly surprising that people with an interest in Thailand, whether they love it or hate it--or a little bit of both--would post here.  So your continual admonitions for everyone to clean up their home countries seems rather pathetic.  There are plenty of forums to discuss US, EU, Japanese, or any other economic or political issues.  And there is nothing you can post which would be harsher than what is posted there.

I agree. and when the debate is to the point and bares intrest on thailand it makes sense. however some of the posts are just plain"stupid" as TG refers to them...reek from a srtong smell of colonialism and are offensive to Thais and Thailand. many of them set out to compare Thailand inability and impotence versus Western countries. but when i do it then they take it to heart... I am sorry if you are offended that admonitions for everyone to clean up their home countries befor lecturing us how wonderfull they are and how stupid are the Thais has caused you such a stress.. I too find your reply pathetic. if you throw a punch be ready to get one back...

This is a Thai forum, and the US economy is not at issue here, except on how it might affect Thailand. Your insights on Thailand are often quite illuminating for me, but when you go off on the US or UK, as you often seem to do, I just get a glaze over my eyes and tune out.

I am not going off on the US and the UK. i love them very much. i am going off at US an UK expats that feel that Thailand needs to change so its more convininet for them.

[the gent]

The major factor determining Thailand's transition from third world status to that of an emerging economy is the same for all others in the world, namely the shift from subsistence agriculture to industrialisation.

The Thai are achieving this but are handicapped by the fact that nearly 50% of its workforce still derive an income from agriculture which contributes only 8% to GDP.

Frankly, I would've thought that all other statistics pale into insignificance. The majority of Thai are dirt poor and are engaged in employment which offers no economic hope. Fleeing to their only city, thousands seek work only to find ' non jobs ' offering no prospects. The uniformed flunkeys whose only purpose is to stand to attention in the Emporium mall and occasionally salute passers by spring to mind as pehaps the most pathetic examples.

GDP is simply a measure of economic activity not all of which is beneficial. This is particularly true in reference to the Thai who in the spirit of Thaksinomics have been persuaded to borrow willy nilly although many would say they needed no encouragement given their addiction to short term gain.To pump up domestic consumption in such a vulnerable economic environment might benefit those who control it but for most consumers the future is indeed bleak. Corruption also inflates the Thai economy but the true impact by its nature can never be properly measured. However, anecdotal evidence suggests that 30% of the cost of capital projects is creamed off by the sainted few to invest in whichever safe haven appeals. Thaksin thought he could expand the middle class through debt but squaring the circle was never an easy task and the current recession as evidenced by continual revisions downwards of GDP growth probably proves the point.

Quite how folk continue to argue everything is rosy in the garden beats me.

Then again using Phuket or the price of a cucumber as a prism for viewing economic reality may well account for the odd distortion....

[markg]

Plenty of Thais have become successful through hard work and honesty. It's really disrespectful to those people for some farang idiot to say things like this.

1, That is possibly the first and last times you will see that sentence!

2. Four people does not amount to "plenty"

[Plus]

But we just read that hald of the richest Thais are self made/new money. Doesn't it count for something?

People DO move up the ladder and middle class has grown exponentially in the past 20-30 years. The gap between rich and poor appears wide only comparing to those who don't move at all, for whatever reason.

[ThaiGoon]

But we just read that hald of the richest Thais are self made/new money. Doesn't it count for something?

People DO move up the ladder and middle class has grown exponentially in the past 20-30 years. The gap between rich and poor appears wide only comparing to those who don't move at all, for whatever reason.

Exactly Plus. I consider my family and friends of my family as middleclass people (i.e. not ones of those "Thailand's 40 richest business figures.") And they are all selfmade. They have become sucessful over the last 1 or 2 generations. Their parents weren't anywhere near what you could call rich and obviously didn't have any "connections." Yet, they have arrived to where they are right now. One of the traits that made all of them successful as I've seen them is that they are all very determined and really hardworking people. It's just not right for some pompous farangs (no offense to those whose opinions I do respect and value) to use some news that they found on Google to paint those honest and hardworking people with the same stupid and ignorant brush. It's just disrespectful.

[cdnvic]

Plenty of Thais have become successful through hard work and honesty. It's really disrespectful to those people for some farang idiot to say things like this.

1, That is possibly the first and last times you will see that sentence!

2. Four people does not amount to "plenty"

Thaigoon is lucky he's Thai.

Anyone using the term "Thai idiot" as often as he uses it to describe farangs would have been sent packing long ago.

[the gent]

Cdnvic,

Double standards are just sooooo Thai, don't you think? Perhaps TV is getting with the programme and indulging the chap.

I find his faux self deprecation to be quite offensive as indeed his endless incipient racism.

Do you think he could be an invention? Personally, I have never encountered a single educated Thai chap who could give a flying toss about what farang thought about them.

Moderators, take note?

Edited April 23, 2007 by the gent

[cdnvic]

There are other Thais on the forum who give a much needed alternate viewpoint that adds a lot of value to the forum. Fortunately they are a bit more intelligent and mature than our mate thaigoon

I can understand the frustrations some of them must feel seeing so many negatives spoken about Thailand here but they seem to understand that web forums all over the world are populated by people bitching about stuff. Most of the people here are in Thailand so they bitch about Thailand. On local forums here people bitch about Canada, and so on around the world.

[Mid]

Most of the people here are in Thailand so they bitch about Thailand

this of course is not aided by the necessity of keeping topics Thai related ...........

[cdnvic]

It's just human nature. Nobody's going to start a topic about how they went to Tesco and the whole shopping experience went without trouble, they bought some flip-flops, and came home.

Now, if they get pinched on the way home for not wearing a helmet however......

[vermin on arrival]

I suspect that a lot of the electronics talked about are computer parts, hard disks, keyboards, circuit boards etc.

Endure,

Thanks for the clarification.

[vermin on arrival]

TG,

I can understand your desire to emphasize certain positive things that are going on in the kingdom, but, with all do respect, you seem to do it to the point of turning a blind eye to many of the negative things which do exist/are occuring here.

I also don't think that it is fair to say that people who disagree with your opinion and present certain evidence to dispute your opinion are necessarily pompous,stupid,disrespectful, or idiot farangs(although some actually may be). By doing so, you end up lowering the tenor of the discourse in the discussion.

In the end, I really don't know you so maybe this comment is unjustified.