Farangs In Charge Of Hiring

[richard10365]

I know one school in Chiang Mai that has a farang in charge of hiring. How many of the schools in Thailand are like that? Also, is it better to have a farang in charge of hiring. If yes or no, why?

Edited April 19, 2007 by richard10365

[aussiestyle1983]

I say there should be one farang and one Thai at the interview and during the hiring/ contract making process.

[DragonQuest]

a farang hired me only, but i took the thai head, it should of been thai though. it seems there are quite a few out there, but the magority are gonna be thai, and it should be thai, its better i think, i dont like the fact of a falang hiring .

[Casanundra]

When we interview it is me and the Thai boss together.

That way I am able to offer a certain farang insight that the average Thai wouldn't normally be tuned into

[Ijustwannateach]

I have the same comment as everyone else- have known a number who were in advisory & interview positions (I may even have done an interview or two myself), but no farang with the authority to hire on his own say-so alone.

[PeaceBlondie]

Among farang teachers in Thailand, the consensus is that most of the Thais who make the decisions in the hiring process can't tell the 'character' of a Western candidate. It's difficult for them to judge the speaking dialect of the candidate, the genuineness of his credentials and testimony, his true motivation to be working, etc. Many places don't allow a farang to be part of the hiring process, at least to give significant input into the final decision. Of course, there are exceptions. That includes that the mere presence of a farang - even as the hiring decider - doesn't mean he knows.

On my first hire and interview, I got hired after two interviews (including an off again/on again committee dropping in and out), and two incredible, live demonstrations. All right, it wasn't Academy Award caliber, but the guy hiring me applauded! The second time, my reputation preceded me and the interview was perfunctory, without a demo. Most interviewers don't know how to select among several candidates.

[TerryLH]

"a farang hired me only, but i took the thai head, it should of been thai though. it seems there are quite a few out there, but the magority are gonna be thai, and it should be thai, its better i think, i dont like the fact of a falang hiring ."

Why not?

[DragonQuest]

just cause i dont, your in thailand, you expect to live and work with thai peolpe, you didnt come here to get hired by your own peolpe, thats why you left your country in the first place right? to get away from it all, to start a new life and new begining, and just cause why should they have all that power and athourity? unless hes married with a thai and been living here for 10 + years and started his own school then maby.... lol

[PeaceBlondie]

just cause i dont, your in thailand, you expect to live and work with thai peolpe, you didnt come here to get hired by your own peolpe, thats why you left your country in the first place right? to get away from it all, to start a new life and new begining, and just cause why should they have all that power and athourity? unless hes married with a thai and been living here for 10 + years and started his own school then maby.... lol

It's fine, DragonQuest, for you to have that opinion. Actually, most of us who came to Thailand weren't exactly trying to get away from White men. If they get a tiny bit of authority (to decide which White teacher candidates get hired), that's up to the Thais who really run the system. Actually, most of the Thais who hire farang teachers don't have a clue about associate degrees, PGCE's, A levels, junior colleges, colleges that award BA and BA and BEd degrees. They don't know Wales from New South Wales. And that, DragonQuest, may be your problem, if you find yourself hired by such Thais and have to work around unqualified, unhappy, incompetent, mentally and socially unstable, farang. Such incompetent farang are more difficult to work with, than the professional Thai educators. Well, apparently that's so, although the farang I've met who taught in Thailand don't meet that description.

[Loaded]

I know one school in Chiang Mai that has a farang in charge of hiring. How many of the schools in Thailand are like that? Also, is it better to have a farang in charge of hiring. If yes or no, why?

I know more than 1 in CM.

I think it's much better to have a farang hiring. Often teachers' CVs are works of fiction with degrees from Belford University and an inability to identify a present simple verb structure despite 3 years' experience! The farang will better know when farang lie. He can easier spot the drinkers and druggies. One glance at the girlfriend and you should be able to see what his personal habits are. Do farang think that bringing the girl from the bar to the interview won't be noticed - conlusion is that he's stupid and will constantly be stressed from the economic and emotional demands of this type of relationship. IMO of course.

[Dongguan]

I think a foreigner should be hiring foriegners, or at least be present during the hiring process. There are many things foreigners can notice about other foreigners that the locals perhaps couldn't, or would mistake for something other than what it really is ... Also, if it's with regard to teaching English, I doubt a local would be able to judge someone's English level as accurately as a foreigner would.

Either that, or have a local who is well versed in how foreigners behave, and interact, so there won't be any misunderstandings.

[aussiestyle1983]

just cause i dont, your in thailand, you expect to live and work with thai peolpe, you didnt come here to get hired by your own peolpe, thats why you left your country in the first place right? to get away from it all, to start a new life and new begining, and just cause why should they have all that power and athourity? unless hes married with a thai and been living here for 10 + years and started his own school then maby.... lol

It's fine, DragonQuest, for you to have that opinion. Actually, most of us who came to Thailand weren't exactly trying to get away from White men. If they get a tiny bit of authority (to decide which White teacher candidates get hired), that's up to the Thais who really run the system. Actually, most of the Thais who hire farang teachers don't have a clue about associate degrees, PGCE's, A levels, junior colleges, colleges that award BA and BA and BEd degrees. They don't know Wales from New South Wales. And that, DragonQuest, may be your problem, if you find yourself hired by such Thais and have to work around unqualified, unhappy, incompetent, mentally and socially unstable, farang. Such incompetent farang are more difficult to work with, than the professional Thai educators. Well, apparently that's so, although the farang I've met who taught in Thailand don't meet that description.

Well said.

No wonder most of the schools with good qualified teachers such as the international schools get good teachers, because there is at least a farang at the interview that can help the Thai decided on wheather or not the farang is a good candidate. Most of the schools with bad teachers are using only a Thai to recruit the farangs. Like PB said, most Thais don't have a clue about what to look for in a farang candidate, thats why I believe it is important for the candidate to be assessed by both a Thai and the farang, and after the farang has had a few words to the Thai, then the decision to hire should be up to the Thai. This is Thaialnd and the Thais have to make the ultimate decision, as it will be their problem if something goes wrong (well it should be at least but we know thats not how it works here) but I believe it would be better in every situation if the hiring was done with both a Thai and farang present, especially since it is known that Thais often hire good looking young farangs, even though the are un-qualified, just so they can be used to show to the parents. At least a farang would be able to say, "hold on, good looking, young Johhny Willson may be what the school wants to have walking around the campus pormoting the school, but he is un-qualified. However, older Ms Samantha may not look as good, but she is better qualified"

Edited April 20, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[PeaceBlondie]

I do give my provincial schools credit, however, for putting this old man out on gate duty often enough that everybody in that town knew who I was. Even when I parked wrong downtown, the police man recognized me, gave me a wai, and walked off. If you get hired and do a good job and don't commit any big mistakes, they'll respect you (pretty much, at least superficially). And they also left me alone in the classroom, trusting me to teach English and math. It wasn't all bad. Sometimes the air/con even worked!

[IJustKnowItAll]

just cause i dont, your in thailand, you expect to live and work with thai peolpe, you didnt come here to get hired by your own peolpe, thats why you left your country in the first place right? to get away from it all, to start a new life and new begining, and just cause why should they have all that power and athourity? unless hes married with a thai and been living here for 10 + years and started his own school then maby.... lol

a farang hired me only, but i took the thai head, it should of been thai though. it seems there are quite a few out there, but the magority are gonna be thai, and it should be thai, its better i think, i dont like the fact of a falang hiring .

So Dragonquest, you're a teacher...wow... and a native employed you.....wow....Why don't you like being hired by a native?

I think it is better to be interviewed by both a Thai and a native speaker.

I wish the Thai teachers at my school had been interviewed by a native as they are terrible. How can a Thai admin, with little or no background in English, employ a Thai teacher of English?

[DragonQuest]

as i said before ijustknowitall, im in thailand, i would expect a thai to hire me, i guess having a thai and a falang be ok, i just prefer THAI IMHO, i have been to many schools and Its more thai then falang anyways, and i think it will always be more thai then falang, cause falang dont seem to stick around long enough cause 30k is peanuts, i envy the teachers in other countries.

[mbkudu]

as i said before ijustknowitall, im in thailand, i would expect a thai to hire me, i guess having a thai and a falang be ok, i just prefer THAI IMHO, i have been to many schools and Its more thai then falang anyways, and i think it will always be more thai then falang, cause falang dont seem to stick around long enough cause 30k is peanuts, i envy the teachers in other countries.

Interesting that you have such high regard for those who pay you peanuts.

[aussiestyle1983]

as i said before ijustknowitall, im in thailand, i would expect a thai to hire me, i guess having a thai and a falang be ok, i just prefer THAI IMHO, i have been to many schools and Its more thai then falang anyways, and i think it will always be more thai then falang, cause falang dont seem to stick around long enough cause 30k is peanuts, i envy the teachers in other countries.

Interesting that you have such high regard for those who pay you peanuts.

Or, maybe he perfers Thais to hire him because he knows a farang wouldn't give him a job!

[Loaded]

as i said before ijustknowitall, im in thailand, i would expect a thai to hire me, i guess having a thai and a falang be ok, i just prefer THAI IMHO, i have been to many schools and Its more thai then falang anyways, and i think it will always be more thai then falang, cause falang dont seem to stick around long enough cause 30k is peanuts, i envy the teachers in other countries.

Interesting that you have such high regard for those who pay you peanuts.

Or, maybe he perfers Thais to hire him because he knows a farang wouldn't give him a job!

the nail has just been hit on the head

[DragonQuest]

you guys are very funny... actually im just tired of my peolpe hiring me, thats why i left, i came for a change of lifestyle, and im happy here, yes i have high regard for thais, even though its peanuts, how many teachers are getting peanuts? thousands, are they happy? maby some, but in all actuality , i work with alot of falang, alot are smokers and drinkers and whore mongers, some are nice and genuine.

[Spit the Dog]

At my school I've stepped in a few times to do teaching observations/interviews for prospective new teachers when my Thai boss has been unavailable.

There have been a couple of occasions when I've advised my school not to hire teachers but they've gone ahead and hired them anyway, only for my initial judgement to be proved correct.

At the end of the day, I feel that most Thai schools will make the final decisions but they like to have the token farang puppet, like myself for show.

[DragonQuest]

Agreed.

[IJustKnowItAll]

Or, maybe he perfers Thais to hire him because he knows a farang wouldn't give him a job!

You took the words right out of my mouth.

IMHO a native speaker would have far more idea of how good or bad your English skills are or how genuine your intentions maybe. In general a Thai interviewer's English skills wouldnt be high enough to know whether you are good or bad. That's why so many bad teachers get employment in Thailand.

I've been at my school for 4 years and have seen around 8 teachers come and go, we only have 3 native speakers. All walked in off the street and all didnt have a clue in the classroom. None of them lasted a year. It was very obvious to me they wouldnt last but the school didnt care or more likely didnt have a clue who they were employing, a white face = teacher. It's so hit and miss with the hiring in Thailand because most Thais havent got a clue about foriegners.

And by saying you should be interviewed by a Thai because you're in Thailand is a bit ignorant. Your comment about teachers working for peanuts and being whoremongers is rather ignorant too.

I'm sorry IMHO DragonQuest is lucky to have a job teaching and it's only Thai ignorance or desperation that he has one. I pity the kids he is teaching. If he speaks as bad as he writes then I cannot see what positives there are in him being allowed in a classroom. I dont want to attack him but if you want to comment on Teaching and come out with the arguements he has in the English he used then you open yourself up for comments like mine.

Dragon I really hope your teaching is not as bad as your writing.

[ngangu]

I think it's a much better idea to have a Farang at least assist with the hiring, providing of course this person is capable and in touch with the needs of the school.

I'd go another step and say if they really want to improve the quality of education here they should consider western management, at least in a consulting capacity, for the entire school.

My frustrations with teaching in Thailand are not about the salary, but the lack of management and inability to organize anything!

[richard10365]

Is there anyone here who has the job of hiring?

[aussiestyle1983]

Is there anyone here who has the job of hiring?

I have a job to review and short list potential applicant and make recomendations about who should be hired. Of course, the final decision is made be the foriegn department coordinator, but mostly that decision is influenced by what I say about the candidate.

[Ijustwannateach]

you guys are very funny... actually im just tired of my peolpe hiring me, thats why i left, i came for a change of lifestyle, and im happy here, yes i have high regard for thais, even though its peanuts, how many teachers are getting peanuts? thousands, are they happy? maby some, but in all actuality , i work with alot of falang, alot are smokers and drinkers and whore mongers, some are nice and genuine.

I'm leaving this post up as an example of what not to post about in the Teacher's Forum. One of my goals when I started to mod this forum was to make a forum that was safe for teaching professionals in Thailand to discuss their lives, jobs, and working conditions without the trollish stereotyping of the "alcoholic sexpat teacher" that is the failing of so many other contentious forums about teaching in Thailand. There is already a guideline in the Teacher's Forum Guidelines stating that it is not permitted to make statements denigrating teachers in Thailand, and this post crosses over that line (aside from the objectionable comment being way off-topic). DQ's going on a little holiday now. I'd recommend the rest of the posters on this thread stick to the topic of foreigners hiring for schools in Thailand- I'm on a little bit of a crusade against off-topic posting these days, especially if it involves an attack on another poster.

"S"

[Ijustwannateach]

A number of posters in this thread need to review the Forum Rules. I'm not in a forgiving mood this week.

[aussiestyle1983]

Back on topic;

As long as foriegners are allowed to hire foriegners, there will be some genuine people being hired, which will benifit the Thai education. But from what ive seen and heard about in the past, if only the Thai staff are in charge of selecting the farangs, walking advertisements will continue to be hired instead of genuine teachers, well at least in most cases. Many Thais at my school use to hire only young un-qualified good looking farangs, but once my opinion started being asked for after a number of these farangs caused some problems, a change was made and the opinions of a foriegner (myself) were taken into considering when hiring a foriegn candidate. Basically, its easier for us to get an idea about the motives and personality from people from our own or similar culture...........

[ngangu]

The fact that a school will or will not humble themselves to allow a qualified native Speaker to at least participate in the hiring process, can tell you a lot about the school IMO.

[torito]

The fact that a school will or will not humble themselves to allow a qualified native Speaker to at least participate in the hiring process, can tell you a lot about the school IMO.

Are you suggesting that Thai's do not have sufficient capacity to assess who can teach English, or that any "qualified" native English speaking can judge others abilities to teach? A little bit over the board.

Now in the case that in the school board nobody speak English, the assistance of a English speaking person would be necessary, but from there to suggest that it should be a "native" English speaking it is a little bit too over the board also.

The misconception that exists is that because a person is a native English speaking, also has by default the ability to qualify others in the management it, and moreover, the ability to teach it. A good Mathematician does not make a good teacher of Mathematics.

It took me four years in the university to get my degree and qualifications to teach (by the way, first in the list of recognized degrees in the Australia Education Department of all the states). But when I began, I was a simple amateur.

It scares me just to think that those people who has a 2 weeks course really believe that they are "qualified teachers" and that they are more qualified than others, to the extend that can judge them.

The reason because this job can be done by them, is because learning English is a process, and the aspects of the language are repeated over and over during this process. From there my conclusion (based in my experience as a learner) is that anybody who speaks the language can help.

Certainly it is necessary a English speaking person during the interview, but not necessarily native English speaker, and this by no means reflect the quality of the school, as it is above suggested.

Edited April 22, 2007 by torito