New year road carnage: Nearly 400 dead - north of Thailand worst for accidents/fatalities

[BobBKK]

I'm convinced the two-way U-Turns are a major cause. I wish they had data on where these accidents are - I have never seen such dangerous places in 50 years driving ANYWERE. No one can see anything and people take huge risks - even when not drunk.

[Road Warrior]

keep it thai drivers so can "still be" the worlds worst drivers !!!!!

[Artisi]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'm convinced the two-way U-Turns are a major cause. I wish they had data on where these accidents are - I have never seen such dangerous places in 50 years driving ANYWERE. No one can see anything and people take huge risks - even when not drunk.

The current design is an absolute disaster, each of the opposing lane u-turns should be seperate by at least 100 metres, more if possible, this allows a better view of the incoming traffic. 

They are a necessary evil and warrants one critical thinking to overcome the problem. 

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

Pity Scott did not read or understand what my comments said. I did not say the govt broke the driving laws I clearly stated that they did not do what is required of them. That is ENFORCE the law and IMPROVE driver education. These basics work in the rest of the world so why not in Thailand. I stand by my comments.

As far as driver education goes, there is no point in trying to educate stupid, about 80% of driving needs common sense, a trait that the majority of Thais do not have.

[Histavia]

On 1/6/2021 at 5:11 AM, scammed said:

probably 99% of those that died was not inside a vehicle,

but pedestrians/motorcyclists/bicyclists/pedestrians

the usual figure for the category "vulnerable road users" (to which you are referring) is around 80%

[scammed]

43 minutes ago, Histavia said:

the usual figure for the category "vulnerable road users" (to which you are referring) is around 80%

in what country ? that should be specific to nation regarding how many scooters vs cars etc

[Histavia]

46 minutes ago, scammed said:

in what country ? that should be specific to nation regarding how many scooters vs cars etc

Come on! Road safety is an international science with definite terms.

 

the WHO and almost all safety organisations refer to "vulnerable road users"

this is defined as pedestrians (and by-standers) 2 wheels vehicles and there-whelled vehicles.Of course its not specific to numbers it is a term applied to specific types of road users.

 

Here is the EU definition

 

Vulnerable Road Users (VRU) are defined in the ITS Directive as "non-motorised road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists as well as motor-cyclists and persons with disabilities or reduced mobility and orientation"

 

the problem is that people don't have an accurate perception of what road safety is and how it is analysed and dealt with. Terms like vulnerable road user are basic to the understanding of road safety.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Histavia

[hiwave]

[scammed]

5 hours ago, Histavia said:

Come on! Road safety is an international science with definite terms.

 

the WHO and almost all safety organisations refer to "vulnerable road users"

this is defined as pedestrians (and by-standers) 2 wheels vehicles and there-whelled vehicles.Of course its not specific to numbers it is a term applied to specific types of road users.

 

Here is the EU definition

 

Vulnerable Road Users (VRU) are defined in the ITS Directive as "non-motorised road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists as well as motor-cyclists and persons with disabilities or reduced mobility and orientation"

 

the problem is that people don't have an accurate perception of what road safety is and how it is analysed and dealt with. Terms like vulnerable road user are basic to the understanding of road safety.

in sweden in winter time, there are no vulnerable road users on the road,

and since its winter almost all year around, very few bother to buy a motorcycle so there arent many on the roads in summer either.

 

is it plausible that this statistic will differ between sweden and thailand ?

Edited January 8, 2021 by scammed

[Histavia]

21 hours ago, scammed said:

in sweden in winter time, there are no vulnerable road users on the road,

and since its winter almost all year around, very few bother to buy a motorcycle so there arent many on the roads in summer either.

 

is it plausible that this statistic will differ between sweden and thailand ?

Yes there are........I think you are having trouble understanding these stats. ..and who vulnerable road users are. It includes pedestrians for a start.

Of course the  percentage (and numbers) of "vulnerable" injuries varies from country to country. You obviously haven't seen the copious international stats about this. May I suggest you look at the WHO figures...in their website?

I repeat, the term "vulnerable road user" is an internationally recognised category.. 

It doesnt just include motorcycles either ....as I pointed out earlier

 

BTW - the percentage of vulnerable road users for Sweden comes to around 40%.

Unlike Thailand, Sweden invented and adopted the "Safe System" for road safety and now are aiming to achieve ZERO road deaths.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Histavia

[Histavia]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:26 AM, BobBKK said:

I'm convinced the two-way U-Turns are a major cause. I wish they had data on where these accidents are - I have never seen such dangerous places in 50 years driving ANYWERE. No one can see anything and people take huge risks - even when not drunk.

The u-turns are dreadful. But they are just a single example of one particular aspect of road safety. What they highlight in Thailand is the dreadful road design and engineering.  Even newer roads are badly designed....the older u-turns are being phased out but they are simply a way of saving money in construction. They are a cheaper way of making junctions without resorting to complicated bridges and roundabouts  

On motorways they now filter off to the left to go over a bridge, but this is still not really a satisfactory solution as the lanes are usually poorly delineated and signed. A straightforward elevated  intersection and roundabout is far safer.

It is worth bearing in mind that Thailand only has around 300 km of real motorway....most of the other big roads are little more than poorly surfaced speedway... too straight and too many lanes, ill defined edges and insufficient barriers with no lane discipline enforceable.

 

If Thailand is to address road safety, just dealing with one item here and there will have no significant effect on the death toll or crash and injury rates. They have to simultaneously address EVERY aspect of road safety. 

Calling Thai drivers idiots etc just shows how little the people doing so understand about road safety.

Every country has idiot drivers just watch youtube..... the difference is made when a government decides to set up systems that protect idiots from themselves. It is also worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of accidents aren't actually caused by the raving idiots, but (93%) by normal people just making a slight human error, which, because of the driving environment in Thailand, is far more likely to result in death or serious injury..   

It is difficult to find reliable stats in Thailand but if you dig around, you'll find that the number of crashes is not much bigger than even in EU countries. . But the numbers of deaths are 10 times higher or more.

 

 

[techietraveller84]

It's kind of shocking to realize that traffic accidents have had a much bigger affect on Thai public health than COVID.

[Histavia]

8 hours ago, techietraveller84 said:

It's kind of shocking to realize that traffic accidents have had a much bigger affect on Thai public health than COVID.

This is a spurious comparison. 

Traffic accidents are a long term constant...Covid is a potentially exponentially increasing threat. In UK the effect is now out of control and well exceeds road deaths.

However if you compare the two, what conclusion do you suggest?

 

PS Road casualties  cost Thailand trillions of baht every year, but Covid has completely decimated the Thai tourist industry which is 20% of the GDP in a matter of months.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Histavia

[techietraveller84]

10 hours ago, Histavia said:

This is a spurious comparison. 

Traffic accidents are a long term constant...Covid is a potentially exponentially increasing threat. In UK the effect is now out of control and well exceeds road deaths.

However if you compare the two, what conclusion do you suggest?

 

PS Road casualties  cost Thailand trillions of baht every year, but Covid has completely decimated the Thai tourist industry which is 20% of the GDP in a matter of months.

I don't suggest a conclusion. I just had no idea how deadly Thailand's roads were. Apologies for my ignorance, & for offending your sensibilities.

[Histavia]

23 hours ago, techietraveller84 said:

I don't suggest a conclusion. I just had no idea how deadly Thailand's roads were. Apologies for my ignorance, & for offending your sensibilities.

A lot of posts on Covid make the mistake of comparing the stats with RTI stats, which is a false comparison. There is no valid conclusion to be drawn.