Poll- Do You Feel That Thailand Wants You Or Wants You Out?

[Ulysses G.]

The 30 day stampers are hardly a great loss.

The Thai economy is hardly captive to these low life bottom feeders.

Hey, dirt-bags are people too!

[GuestHouse]

Here's something curious.

Regulars in this board will, I'm sure back me up on this, accept that in general my views on Thailand are on the skeptical side.

I am among the first to warn people of the dangers of over simplifying the positives of Thailand, and carelessly throwing their time, wealth, emotional wellbeing into Thailand.

I frequently caution against investing anything in Thailand you cannot afford to loose, including, but not only money.

So when I say that BAF's statement

Trying to live a normal family life there you get all the negatives of a 3rd world country like Thailand (corruption, discrimination, classism, racism, poor infrastructure, dangerous health care system, bad schooling, dirt, foul odors, noise, no laws, no enforcement, no rights, no cultural life, no real friends, no deep integration with the fabric of society, awful weather, crap food etc etc) without getting to enjoy any of the positives (widely available pussy and cheap booze)...

Is an offensive, immature and deranged generalization. I do so as someone who is normally skeptical. It's not like I pick up on his feeble mindedness on the basis of a need I have to protect Thailand against any and all criticism (we have Terry for that).

I have a measured skepticism based on having had long and intimate experience of living, working and raising a family in Thailand. I've also managed many expats and Thais in Thailand (and elsewhere).

The views BAF expresses here are not a reasonable reflection of my skeptical view of Thailand, but they are very much in alignment with the views I have heard expressed by people who are having severe problems (usually emotional) with living overseas (not just Thailand, I have heard similar views expressed by someone having problems with life here in Italy).

That is not to deny that there are not problems with Thailand, there are problems everywhere, but as many on TV understand, the answer to the problems of life in Thailand is measured, considered and respectful living.

More than that, sharing positive experience of how to deal with the problems where they do exists brings the benefit of personal experience to others.

BAF doesn't do any of this, he simply sets off with a Rabid Rant that says nothing about Thailand and a whole lot about BAF.

To understand what it says about BAF we only need read his words – A stream of derogatory comments, non of which in anyway relate to the happy lives of very many foreigners living in Thailand. (Something about water finding its own level comes to mind).

BAF might better have left it as follows:

Trying to live a normal family life there you get ………

We might each of us then add what it is WE get or have had from Thailand.

BAF has told us what he got.

I for my part have received almost entirely positive experiences in and from Thailand.

I’m receiving similar positive experiences here in Italy.

My guess is there is only one thing that pisses BAF off about Thailand more than the sh1tty experience he brought up on himself.

And that is that someone else gets to have the good life in Thailand he obviously was incapable of finding.

….

Oh and Coincidence BAF’s in Italy, well so am I ..

No guessing who our of the two of us is living the Dolce Vita.

Some folk are incapable of enjoying anything.

[borracho]

The 30 day stampers are hardly a great loss.

The Thai economy is hardly captive to these low life bottom feeders.

Hey, dirt-bags are people too!

So are soi dogs but they get fed to the crocs at the zoo.

[BAF]

Overcome by a touch of hysteria are we?

The 10 million figure is a ridiculous postulation.

If someone can't cut the current system then byebye.

The 30 day stampers are hardly a great loss.

The Thai economy is hardly captive to these low life bottom feeders.

Several posts in this very thread should have made you realize that every one of us is someone else's "low life bottom feeders"...

It's obviously proven to be too hard (or too easy) a concept for you to grasp.

What about the other concept of the totally laughable idea of a 3rd world country (without any meaningful form of welfare offered to its citizens and with NO WELFARE AT ALL offered to its destitute guests) refusing folks who are several times richer than its own average citizen and who can LITERALLY only GIVE and not TAKE (money, expertise etc) from the country as "unwanted, miserable, low class tourists" (actual wording from a top brass delineating the new policies)?

Edited May 14, 2007 by BAF

[Edonista]

All I'm doing is replying to the core topic of this thread saying that yes, Thailand does seem to want us out. Their laws and immi regs prove that.

They are chasing away folks who are GIVING to the country and its people, not TAKING from them. But that isn't, clearly, what interests them, despite your and their claims to the contrary ("high quality folks" and the rest of such crap). I am also arguing that even if that was their aim (chasing away the undesiderable = the poor, in Thais' and many on this forum's eyes) that's unjust and stupid (even economically stupid) for the reasons outlined. And please re-read my bit about reciprocation and solving ours and their problems...

Great !

[torito]

I'm still 30, I'm still adventurous and I'm still "rich" enough to try it out in pretty much any country I wish to...

'BAF' of all the things that you have said this is the most contradictory of all......millions would love to be your age, have your wealth and your posibilities , but your are bitter and not adventurous at all !.

And the other problem you have is that the country that you wish to be.......is Thailand!

[borracho]

I for my part have received almost entirely positive experiences in and from Thailand.

I’m receiving similar positive experiences here in Italy.

My guess is you have an attitude which attracts positive experience.

One of my mottoes for life is: "Attitude is everything" It generally works quite well.

[GuestHouse]

If we are not going to enforce the rule about gratuitous abuse of Thais and Thailand, can we at least enforce the rule about sticking to the English language.

[borracho]

Several posts in this very thread should have made you realize that every one of us is someone else's "low life bottom feeders"...

It's obviously proven to be too hard (or too easy) a concept for you to grasp.

What about the other concept of the totally laughable idea of a 3rd world country (without any meaningful form of welfare offered to its citizens and with NO WELFARE AT ALL offered to its destitute guests) refusing folks who are several times richer than its own average citizen and who can LITERALLY only GIVE and not TAKE (money, expertise etc) from the country as "unwanted, miserable, low class tourists" (actual wording from a top brass delineating the new policies)?

If you feel entitled to something you've got it wrong.

You simply prove my point about attitude.

[ColPyat]

Which is fair enough.

What though is not, is your generalizing rants that are so wrong and simplistically contrived that it is not worth answering them.

Obviously, that must be why we have been exchanging posts after all...

The sad part though is, that with the amount of money you have available, you could without much difficulty, have a great life here, give your family a secure future,

That's where we disagree. Based on my knowledge of Thailand, I am not rich enough (nor "Thai enough"...) to effectively protect and isolate my family from all the perils, risks and nasty things going on in Thailand like real upper class richer Thais manage to do.

You obviously think you "know better than me" and I think I know "better than you"... We both have made our choices with our families. You are living with them in a 3rd world country, I am not.

Well, i have been closed to 20 years in this part of the world, so i guess there are a few things i might know a bit better than you.

and without distractions, such as having to work in a job you don't enjoy, like the vast majority of humanity, could travel, learn and communicate a lot of the realities you encounter. Because you are privileged enough not having to depend on working for an income.

That's one of my points actually, despite the alleged goal of those "new and improved" laws and maigo6's and mdeland's dreams of them actually making our life in LOS "easier and better", there is no legal way for a wealthy young foreigner to legally stay long term in Thailand unless:

1. working a job he doesn't want and deosn't need

2. opening a stupid business he doesn't want and doesn't need and recognizes as the stupid business proposition without economic sense that it is

3. getting married AND most probably having to fake a "fixed" monthly income

4. I am probably forgetting other legal and less legal ways and loopholes (BTW, wasn't this new and improved law supposed to also cure loopholes and exploitation of the "spirit" of the law......?)

There are more than a few legal ways. I have found one, and i don't exactly overwork myself, and i do have far less assets or income than you.

Now you life in Italy, a place many people would dream to live, and from the rental income you have you can still afford a not too bad life there without having to work. But no, you have to go into nursing so you can one day secure citizenship in the states. Well, but there are many things going wrong too, such as a very insufficient social service net, that, maybe not as bad as in Thailand, does still leave many people without adequate health service.

So what then, if the states don't turn out "the best country available"?

ColPyat, I'm still 30, I'm still adventurous and I'm still "rich" enough to try it out in pretty much any country I wish to...

Italy is indeed a very good place, overall, and I can say that I also live in a very good and enjoyable location but... Italy isn't "exotic" and exciting to me and the US are the sensible, responsible and "safe" alternative to get my fix of "adventure" and excitement as an half responsible and mature married man.

"insufficient social service net" and "health care" you say? That's the only real risk I see and a very easily solvable one = pay the insurance like millions of Americans are paying. Same "solution" as in LOS actually, with the "small" difference that for that you get top class health care, better than in Italy and probably the absolute best money can buy (and I am talking as a professional here)...

What if it still doesn't turn out OK? We are an 11 hours plane ride away from home sweet home, funnily enough it's practically the same distance as Rome-Bangkok...

Hmmm...you go on about you being a married man and all. In one of your previous posts you mentioned your wife not exactly being in favour of moving to the US. But that's about it. Where does your wife fit into all this 'i am 30 and still adventurous' sort of life style? Because i only see your posts about you, and you and you again.

I fear that as long as you carry your attitude, no place will be sufficient, and you are going to miss out on a lot of good things in life while wasting a major portion on being bitter.

You seem convinced, or you are simply trying to make it sound as if I am a restless, never satisfied, sad chap at the forever lasting search for the "Holy Gral"

I may disappoint you saying that almost every place I have visited/lived in has been "sufficient" and has given me many good and different things which I have enjoyed to the fullest at different stages of my life.

I am also acutely aware (and after my travel all the more so) that I have been VERY lucky so far and I assure you that whatever I seem to you I am anything but bitter and certainly NOT loosing out on the pleasurable things in life...

Well, depends. Thailand has actually more pleasurable things to offer than "cheap booze" and "available women". I am not going on about temples and beaches, i mean the more intellectual challenges, such as being able to live in and observe tremendous changes in a developing country and its neighbors. At least i find it tremendously pleasurable to learn and observe this.

Anyhow, what do i care, even though the difficulties that come with living here, i do enjoy my married life here (yes, i know what "love" is). I don't close my eyes to the injustices here (if you read some of my many posts - you can see that many of my posts deal with these subjects). I hope though i am a bit more mature and fair in describing these injustices here.

After all it may simply be that I am still at that stage in your life when you want to scream for all to hear that you are not buying it and that BS still stinks even when served with tea biscuits in exclusive lounges...

Fair enough, sometimes posts on an internet board can be misunderstood, especially if posted not in one's native language (English isn't mine either).

Edited May 14, 2007 by ColPyat

[Edonista]

I'm still 30, I'm still adventurous and I'm still "rich" enough to try it out in pretty much any country I wish to...

'BAF' of all the things that you have said this is the most contradictory of all......millions would love to be your age, have your wealth and your posibilities , but your are bitter and not adventurous at all !.

And the other problem you have is that the country that you wish to be.......is Thailand!

But do Torito, Guesthouse,Mdeland and other "long time Thaivisa posters" actually read what other members post ?

The nonsense they utter is astonishing !

[KhunMarco]

Gee BAF, good luck with the almighty USA, man I wouldn't live there to save my life nowadays (just a personal opinion, please don't take it personally folks), anyway as they say to each its own.

Sure must be embarrassing when people ask you "where's your wife from?","Thailand", "aaaahh nice place", "...herm ...actually... she was the only thing I really liked about the place..... except the working ladies and the cheap booze.. (just kidding paesa' , piu' o meno)

[GuestHouse]

But do Torito, Guesthouse,Mdeland and other "long time Thaivisa posters" actually read what other members post ?

The nonsense they utter is astonishing !

Reading a post is one thing, finding any basis for the claims is another. Your own is not much different in that respect.

[fanta rood]

Alof of you are frustrated and pissed off that you cant live the life of a superstar. Especially with the new visa rules.

But complaining about it and acting like a 5 year old child that doesnt get any candy isnt doing you any good. You just have to grab a hold of yourself. You have to face the facts. Youre a nobody

[PeaceBlondie]

I've been away for several hours, and it's only gotten worse on this thread. Before we all lapse into Urdu or Pashtu, let's quit. The OP has had adequate discussion of the point. Thread closed. If you feel compelled to reopen these topics very soon, expect strict moderation.

[borracho]

You're a nobody

Correction he's Mr Nobody.