British Citizenship/uk Passport For Child

[gdhm]

Hi,

I have read Scouse’s informative post on this subject but having searched different official sites for additional I am not sure what if any options are available to my stepson (4 year old born July 2003).

Basic situation and information:

1) Biological father of my stepson is English. Mother (now my wife) is Thai.

2) My stepson was born in and has lived in Thailand all his life. Father has never lived in Thailand -only visited.

3) Biological father completely abandoned 100% (contact and finance) mother and child around 15 months after birth.

4) Biological father never married my wife. Still lives in England

5) Biological father is named on my stepson's Thai Birth certificate as the father. Surname used however is my wife's maiden surname.

6) My wife is applying to the Thai courts to have my stepson's surname changed to that of mine, as we feel it will save him embarrassment later AND make him feel better in the future bearing his mother's married and current surname.

7) I am a UK citizen (aged 55 in July) born in England and lived there all my life until I moved to Spain 5 years ago. Now I have lived in Thailand and have been married to my Thai wife 43 year old (mother of my stepson) for a little over a year.

8) We all expect to reside permanently in Thailand

OUR WISH

It is my belief (and my wife's) that IF it is legally permitted for my stepson to hold dual nationality and 2 passports (UK and Thai) that this would be of considerable benefit for my stepson's freedom of movement in the future AND future education and job prospects. Certainly he would have more options open to him if it is possible for him to hold a British passport and be a British citizen etc.

OUR QUESTIONS please:

No.1 question. Is it permitted by the UK AND Thailand to legitimately hold a Thai passport AND a British Passport. If NOT then the following questions are irrelevant.

2) If I never formally adopt my stepson

Are there ANY options open to us to apply for my stepson's recognition as a British citizen and eligibility for a UK passport (be it by right or discretionary)?

I read somewhere that it may be possible to apply, but it should have been done within a year of birth. Obviously this was not done by the English father who only visited his son once (for 10 days) when he was aged one -he did help with finances for his son for about 15 months before announcing to my wife that he could no longer pay and support his son and that he was breaking off all contact with her and his son. Naturally my wife did not know anything about any rules or time limits, AND I was not on the scene at the time to check into the possibilities.

3)If I am able to formally adopt my stepson

Would that open up any avenues for my stepson on this subject?

I would like to adopt my stepson as would my wife like that but we are unsure about

i) being able to track down biological father (may be possible) for his consent/permission/assistance

ii) his willingness to co-operate.

iii) having 100% abandoning his son from 15 months of age up to now, and with only one 10 day visit around age 1 whether my wife has any options to agree to my adopting my stepson with her permission ONLY, and WITHOUT the need of the biological father's consent.

I hope someone, or maybe Scouse himself, can point me I the correct direction for information/action (if indeed there are any possible options).

I apologize if I have missed out any important pieces of salient information. I will be happy to divulge any relevant information necessary for correct advice or guidance.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Dave

Edited May 25, 2007 by gdhm

[the scouser]

Dave,

As you'll appreciate, this is not a particularly straightforward matter. I shall therefore give a more-detailed reply over the weekend when I'll have some available time.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

Dave,

My pals have cried off going for a pint tonight, so I find myself with some time on my hands.

Firstly, the UK recognises dual nationality and, although there have been various arguments on this forum about whether Thailand does, it would appear to be the case. Indeed, my own son holds both British and Thai passports.

To move on, before we consider registration of your son as a British citizen, we have to establish whether or not he has automatically acquired British citizenship. Prior to 1 July 2006, those born illegitimate to British citizen fathers did not automatically acquire British citizenship. A susbsequent marriage could legitimise the birth, but, from the circumstances you have described, that is not going to happen. Your step-son therefore has no automatic claim to British citizenship.

Your step-son's best shot at registration as a British citizen is under section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981. Chapter 9 of the Nationality Instructions states:-

9.9.4 However, in accordance with the spirit of the 1987 Act (and the changes

introduced by the 2002 Act), we may normally register the illegitimate minor

child, born before 1 July 2006, of a British citizen or “settled” father if the

criteria at a-c. (and, if appropriate, d.) below are all satisfied:

a. We are satisfied about the paternity of the child; and

b. We have the consent of all those with parental responsibility (see 9.19

below); and

c. We are satisfied that, had the child been born to the father legitimately:

i. the child would have had an automatic claim to British

citizenship under s.1(1) or s.2(1) of the British Nationality Act

1981; or

ii. the child would have had an entitlement to registration under

either s.1(3), s.3(2) or s.3(5) (see Chapters 8, 10 or 11); or

iii. we would normally have registered under s.3(1); and, if

appropriate

d. There is no reason to refuse on character grounds (see 9.15.29-

9.15.32 below and Annex .

You will be able to demonstrate paternity because the father is named on your step-son's birth certifcate and you don't need to worry about parental responsibility because, as your step-son was born illegitimate, the chances are that only your wife has this. However, you will still need to demonstrate that your step-son's father was a British citizen and, as a minimum, you will need his long birth certificate and passport. Do you think he'd play ball?

Scouse.

PS. Contrary to what the British embassy website intimates, there is no time-bar on registration under 3(1) other than that the applicant is a minor at the time of application.

[gdhm]

Hi Scouse,

MY, My , such a quick, fully understandable and helpful reply. Thank you ever so much.

My wife has his old phone number and email address and I think maybe his last UK postal address known to her) which may still be current.

I feel he may help his son on this matter as he sent an "out of the blue" email (after over a year's silence) to my wife a week before WE married, ONLY with a 1 liner "I love you and *** very much".

He had failed to answer my wife' email over 4 months before, desperately asking if there was any way he could afford to help his son (not her) just a tiny bit as she was in serious debt trying to raise him by herself. I cannot help thinking HIS email was either

a. a tester to see if she still loved him or

b. someone told him she was getting married (definitely NOT my wife).

He actually has another illegitimate child in the UK with his UK citizen EX girlfriend (who he does not like at all I am told AND I understand she does not like him either now. The reason my stepson's biological father ceased financial help and all contact was stated in an email to my wife that the CSA (as it was) in the UK had ordered him to pay maintenance for his first child and he said he could not afford any money his second son.

My only fear is, that he may not play ball because he may feel by confirming parenthood that he will make his fatherhood of my stepson 100% certain in a UK law court and thus leave him vulnerable to a maintenance claim form my wife for his son via a UK maintenance court.

I will be willing to tell him that will NOT happen, and suggest to him that for the sake of his son to agree to allow me to adopting my stepson under UK law (my wife’s and my desire anyway) and I will thus take on ALL financial and other responsibility for his son (my) and relieve him of his, of course.

I know a biological father can be very important to a child and it is NOT my intention (nor my wife's) to hide his existence from my stepson or that he is the biological father. Personally, I hope my stepson never gets a craving to see or try and contact him when older, BUT if he does, I will help and not obstruct his wishes.

If the father is reluctant to help Scouse, am I correct in assuming there is little or NO avenue for us without his assistance.

All I could do if that is the case (or anyway) offer adoption freeing him from any future responsibility (which I would like to do anyway if not too an expensive process)

That failing, maybe we should consider a maintenance appeal against him for his son, so he can help protect his son that way and do something for his wellbeing. If he will not reasonably help his son on this ONE matter of British citizenship/passport then I cannot be too sympathetic to him over a maintenance claim (although that would be my wife's decision not mine).

Hopefully Scouse you will be kind enough to comment on these avenues and my comment sand give me your OPINION on our chances with any of them (I appreciate it would only be an opinion but I am sure you have more of a "feel' than I do"

Thanks again ever so much for your advice to date.

Its a shame that the UK with its much vaunted democracy (which it has a right to be proud of) STILL selects between male parentage and female parentage on this issue Which seems to me blatantly sexist (be it unusually biased to the female side)

Regards, Dave

Edited May 26, 2007 by gdhm

[the scouser]

Dave,

There is a provision for those adopted by a British citizen to have British citizenship conferred upon them. However, in order for this to occur, the adoption has to take place either in the U.K. or in either a designated or Hague Convention country: needless to say, Thailand is neither. Consequently, if you were to adopt your step-son in Thailand, it would not be recognised in the UK and you would have to additionally take the adoption before the British courts, and, as you live as a family in Thailand, they might wonder why you're seeking to have the adoption recognised in the U.K., especially when you have no immediate intention to return there to live. If the court were to get wind of the fact that you were undergoing the British adoption process for the principal purpose of getting your step-son a British passport, my gut instinct thells me that they'd not allow it.

I'm afraid that I don't know much at all about the maintenance side of things and which aspects you could use as weapons against the father. However, it might be worth getting in touch with the CSA, whatever its current incarnation, in order to enquire whether your missus can extra-territorially chase up her son's father.

All the best,

Scouse.

[gdhm]

Dave,

There is a provision for those adopted by a British citizen to have British citizenship conferred upon them. However, in order for this to occur, the adoption has to take place either in the U.K. or in either a designated or Hague Convention country: needless to say, Thailand is neither. Consequently, if you were to adopt your step-son in Thailand, it would not be recognised in the UK and you would have to additionally take the adoption before the British courts, and, as you live as a family in Thailand, they might wonder why you're seeking to have the adoption recognised in the U.K., especially when you have no immediate intention to return there to live. If the court were to get wind of the fact that you were undergoing the British adoption process for the principal purpose of getting your step-son a British passport, my gut instinct th ells me that they'd not allow it.

I'm afraid that I don't know much at all about the maintenance side of things and which aspects you could use as weapons against the father. However, it might be worth getting in touch with the CSA, whatever its current incarnation, in order to enquire whether your missus can extra-territorially chase up her son's father.

All the best,

Scouse.

Hi Scouse,

Thanks for your further input

Actually Scouse, I would like to adopt my stepson and be the legal as well as his "dad in every day life" FULL STOP. This has been my desire long before I thought about UK citizenship/passports and would be my desire even if we cannot get a passport and the two are not connected as far as my wife or I are concerned.

Adoption would hopefully cement my stepson's sense of belonging and being wanted by me AND give my stepson some automatic legal rights which I feel are highly beneficial for his future stability and assured wellbeing. To name one: I would have the legal and financial responsibilities for my adopted son - This I accept would make me more vulnerable if my wife and I broke up. SO BE IT, I do not expect my stepson to grow up accepting me as his dad, only as long as it suits me and then I can then walk away if it suits me. That's not what being a "true" father is all about.

The reason I would wish and like to get a UK adoption (rather than a Thai one ONLY. I assume if I get a UK adoption that Thailand may demand I also have a Thai one, as my son is a Thai National living in Thailand ) are four fold.

1) I believe the adoption will be formally recognised around the World much better than a Thai one alone, and I do not know what path in life my stepson will take or the value of a UK adoption.

2) His biological father in English and lives in England. I assumed it would be desirable to have an adoption processed under UK law to ensure that I would be legally recognised as his father within the UK and EU. I thought maybe a Thai only adoption could be contested in the UK if the father subsequently changed his mind. I assumed a UK adoption would be 100% final.

3) I assumed that the UK itself would wish an adoption of a UK man's son to a UK man to be processed in the UK especially as I had read about the Hague Convention and thought Thailand was not a party to it.

4) If the biological father was required to appear in a Thai Adoption court he may be unwilling to come to Thailand and I would probably have bear all his expenses of airfares, accommodation etc.

I am no expert and I have no idea of the validity of my above 4 comments. I am merely applying what I believe to be logical - but could be way "off beam" .

Personally speaking I think it logical to speak to the biological father in 2 stages anyway.

First the citizenship and then discuss adoption later. Otherwise if I discussed adoption straight off he may say no and then also say no to helping with UK citizenship/passport as well and my stepson would lose out on both counts.

If he is against permitting me adopting his son then he may not not have a problem with citizenship and passport help.

I need anyway to find out if the biological father can forever obstruct an adoption my stepson's mother wants and I want when he has totally abandoned his son since 1 year of age already (3 years ago). Hope not.

Maintenance I am NOT bothered about and never have been. I am not a rich man. I can afford a house and car (when my Spanish house sells) and my current early retirement pension is 55,000Baht NETT of tax (RPI linked max 5% pa) which is comfortable enough in THAILAND to look after my wife, son and myself.

To be honest it I would only even think about requesting maintenance if the biological father was unreasonable and refused to help his son get what he I entitled to apply for.

IMHO the biological father has not behaved well regarding either of his sons to date. Abandoned his Thai son and only helping his UK son due to a court order (but of course I am not in his shoes and I do not know his pressure or problems. At the end of the day they are not my concern but my stepson is and should also be his on the citizenship/passport help at least.

It's is possible the father will be very helpful both the citizenship/passport and adoption issues. I do not know. He may decide it is best for his son to agree. My wife does not consider him as a bad man and I suspect he is more of a dreamer and a weak man rather than a bad man.

Thanks again for you advice Scouse. Its much appreciated

Kindest Regards,

Dave

[the scouser]

In an earlier post you wrote of the iniquity of a child of a British father being denied automatic acquisition of British citizenship, yet it was precisely for the reasons highlighted here that this was so. The official line was always, why should the British state accept responsibility for the offspring of its citizens who, out of wedlock, randomly father children abroad?

However, this has changed with effect from 1 July 2006, since when British fathers of illegitimate children have had the same rights as a mother to pass on their citizenship. Consequently, had your step-son been born in the same circumstances on or after 1 July 2006, it is likely he would have automatically acquired British citizenship. Although the change in legislation is not retrospective, the BIA has indicated that they will abide by the spirit of the law and register those born illegitimate to British fathers prior to this date. However, the key to success is demonstrating that your step-son's father is British, and, in this, you will need his assistance.

I'm afraid I don't know anything of the actual adoption process in the UK, should you have to pursue that course, but I do wish you well in your quest.

Scouse.

[gdhm]

In an earlier post you wrote of the iniquity of a child of a British father being denied automatic acquisition of British citizenship, yet it was precisely for the reasons highlighted here that this was so. The official line was always, why should the British state accept responsibility for the offspring of its citizens who, out of wedlock, randomly father children abroad?

However, this has changed with effect from 1 July 2006, since when British fathers of illegitimate children have had the same rights as a mother to pass on their citizenship. Consequently, had your step-son been born in the same circumstances on or after 1 July 2006, it is likely he would have automatically acquired British citizenship. Although the change in legislation is not retrospective, the BIA has indicated that they will abide by the spirit of the law and register those born illegitimate to British fathers prior to this date. However, the key to success is demonstrating that your step-son's father is British, and, in this, you will need his assistance.

I'm afraid I don't know anything of the actual adoption process in the UK, should you have to pursue that course, but I do wish you well in your quest.

Scouse.

Thank very much Scouse, I accept and understand all you have said. My reference really was with regard to the iniquity that a woman could travel all over the world becoming pregnant (be it 1 year gaps in between approx.) whereas a man could not before 01-06-2006. Additionally its not the babies faults whether born they are born on the 1st July 2006 (or after) or on the 30th June 2006 (or before). Their parantage is identical, circumstances identical, BUT one child has an automatic right to be a UK citizen, the other has no automatic right and could be refused.

That was the iniquity I was really referring to. If the UK really believes that children of UK fathers should be treated the same as children of UK mothers I PERSONALLY feel that it should have made the ruling retropsective as well, otherwise there is a contradiciton (even hypocracy) in the ruling. Either it is correct that children of UK father are treated the same as UK mothers or it is not. Still fairness and law is not a perfect science and consequnetial costs, liabilities and politics often get involved

As you say the UK usually takes an "in spirit view" which is very good news, but anybody refused based on date of birth only probably feel unfairly treated.

The UK recognizes in law so many situation now "out of wedlock' nowadays. Hopefully me also being a UK citizen will help my stepson's case.

Scouse you did not offer an opinion as to whether (if I do not adopt) and the father refuses to help whether an attempt to obtain UK citiznship and passport would be "Dead in the Water" without his assistance.

My wife holds many printed emails with dates etc. from the father in which he often refers to "HIS little boy" and "I have a lovely son - we have a lovely son". (He also mentions his UK based son as well and not being able to finaincailly support my wife and son as he would like because he has to look after his UK based son and cannot afford to assist both).

Would these emails plus the Thai Birth certificate with him named as father have a chance in proving his fatherhood and acceptance of that fact should he NOW refuse to assist his son with a UK citiznship/passport application.

If you have any views on this I would be grateful to hear them but if not then thank for all that you have advised.

We also have 2 excellent and very clear close-up photos of the biological father, my wife and his son (my stepson) whicxh would aid easy idntification of him AND provide proof of his connection with my wife and his son and backup up his emails

I cannot thank you enough for your time and input Scouse.

Prior to it I was under the impression I could do nothing (even with the father's help) but you have clarified several important points which will greatly assist me and my wife.

Thank you so much Scouse

Dave

Edited May 28, 2007 by gdhm

[the scouser]

Dave,

If your step-son's father refuses to support the lad's application for registration as a British citizen, there is no reason an application shouldn't anyway be made. As already established, the application can be submitted by anyone with parental responsibility and, in your step-son's case, that would appear to solely rest with his mother.

You will need to demonstrate how your step-son's father is British and this will involve getting, as a minimum, an original copy of his long form birth certificate. Obviously, the name on the birth certifcate will need to match that of the father on your step-son's birth certificate. It used to be that you could obtain a copy of anyone's birth certificate from the GRO, but I'm not sure if this is still possible, so you'll have to check.

All the best,

Scouse.

[gdhm]

Dave,

If your step-son's father refuses to support the lad's application for registration as a British citizen, there is no reason an application shouldn't anyway be made. As already established, the application can be submitted by anyone with parental responsibility and, in your step-son's case, that would appear to solely rest with his mother.

You will need to demonstrate how your step-son's father is British and this will involve getting, as a minimum, an original copy of his long form birth certificate. Obviously, the name on the birth certificate will need to match that of the father on your step-son's birth certificate. It used to be that you could obtain a copy of anyone's birth certificate from the GRO, but I'm not sure if this is still possible, so you'll have to check.

All the best,

Scouse.

Thanks Scouse for everything.

I will check out whether I can get a copy of another person's UK Birth Certificate.

I feel we should ask the father (or try) in the first instance (only correct and polite). If he will not "play ball" then we will feel morally justified to try without his consent or help. Its the interest of the child that is paramount, subject, of course, to the UK's official bodies permissions.

Now its down to me to progress this matter further and I will give your brain and typing fingers a good well earned rest.

Kindest Regards

Dave