“fahrenheit 9/11”

[Butterfly]

Even if you hate Michel Moore with all your heart, this movie just became the highest grossing documentary of all time IN THE FIRST WEEKEND (nytimes.com). Why not see it if only find out what all the fuss is about?

And even if you don't believe anything that he says, why not watch it for the out takes of Bush and his friends to see how they act behind the scenes?

Because some people don't like to see the truth. They love to keep their head in the sand. It's a complex world and they wouldn't do anything to disturb their little daily routine. It's part of their binary thinking. An extra bit and you have a memory overflow and a system freeze.

It's actually better that way. They don't deserve to see the truth. They can keep drinking the Kool Aid until they start paying the price for it sooner or later. Don't change those people, they deserve what they are and the little narrow world they live in. As long as they are happy with it, they have the right to keep it this way.

[Phil Conners]

Hey I've got 50 good quality copies of Fahrenheit 9/11, wanna buy one at 500 baht then please PM me

Hey, chalk me up for one

[Butterfly]

A few feedback from the NY times website. I guess some "conservatives" are starting to wake up.

A Republican Disgusted with Bush, June 27, 2004

Reviewer: paulra

Going into the film, I was a Bush supporter. After seeing the film, and spending a couple of days of honest contemplation about the content, I view Bush as an absolute disgrace to this country.

Whether or not you agree with Moore’s politics (I don’t), a majority of the facts in the film are irrefutable. And, whether or not Moore presents the various unfavorable events in his film about Bush, the events happened and they are undeniable.

I have never been so utterly revolted by the cowardly, sleazy, disloyal and dishonest actions of a President.

Rattled one Republican, June 25, 2004

Reviewer: angeredux

They came to boo and heckle. Instead, they sat stupified as the evidence, clearly unrefutable as it played before their eyes, hammered at them until one elderly woman member of the group, who later told me she thought she had voted for Jesus's president (this is the Deep South), just erupted into tears at the sight of some of the collateral damage we left in Iraq. There was no heckling amongst that group of Evangelical Republicans. I spoke to them after the movie. Even the hardest cases answered my own distress with stony silence.

I am a Republican and I came to see this film with my wife so that I would have some intelligent criticism to level at the Michael Moore fans I work with. I was expecting a sloppy, fuzzy, highly manipulated treatment. Instead, Bush Administration damns itself through its own actions, its own words, its own lies...all documented for prosperity. Is the film biased? ######, yes. But I can't see how any reasonable person would call this propaganda. It is documentary fact told by a man with a specific agenda in telling it. But there it is on the screen.Fact. It can't be explained away. And as for criticism that the film is disrespectful to President Bush; well, after what we did to Clinton I would expect W. to take the heat like a man. The only problem is that the Clinton issue was nothing to the moral breach of this administration.

Every Republican should see it before he casts his vote this November. It changed my vote. 

[chuckd]

Mr. Butterfly:

It feels great to be on the "dark side" as you so eloquently put it. The money is good, the benefits are good and I have loved it for the greater part of 30 years. I have been on the "front lines" over the years and have never called anybody a coward for their actions. I take offense at somebody that does and is unwilling or unable to tell the world what gives them the right to do so. Oops, I have called the terrorists cowards as they are sawing the heads off of innocent, unarmed civilians.

I have a question for you...How does it feel to be a pompous windbag? Is the money good and are the benefits equivalent to the job? You are a real success in your position as a P. W. and should be proud of your accomplishments.

Should William Jefferson Clinton have also been indicted for "dodging the draft" as you so succinctly put it? I cannot recall him serving much time in the active duty Military or the National Guard. You seem to be full of these double standards. The blow job in the Oval Office wasn't what got him impeached. It was his lying under oath that turned the trick.

Remember, you said it...."I am sure for some, it makes me a pinko commie bastard hippie...."

You still haven't told us where your armchair is located.

[Butterfly]

Mr. Butterfly:

It feels great to be on the "dark side"  as you so eloquently put it.  The money is good, the benefits are good and I have loved it for the greater part of 30 years.  I have been on the "front lines" over the years and have never called anybody a coward for their actions.  I take offense at somebody that does and is unwilling or unable to tell the world what gives them the right to do so.  Oops, I have called the terrorists cowards as they are sawing the heads off of innocent, unarmed civilians.

I have a question for you...How does it feel to be a pompous windbag?  Is the money good and are the benefits equivalent to the job?  You are a real success in your position as a P. W. and should be proud of your accomplishments.

Should William Jefferson Clinton have also been indicted for "dodging the draft" as you so succinctly put it?  I cannot recall him serving much time in the active duty Military or the National Guard.  You seem to be full of these double standards.  The blow job in the Oval Office wasn't what got him impeached.  It was his lying under oath that turned the trick.

Remember, you said it...."I am sure for some, it makes me a pinko commie bastard hippie...." 

You still haven't told us where your armchair is located.

Well, I am not sure what your point is. Must be hot out there, and it's probably difficult to think.

I have every right to call someone a liar or a coward when I see it fit. Who are you or who gave you the authority to judge who should call who ??? do you hear the voice of God like your leader does ??? so far your arguments are falling short of any justifications for telling me not to call someone a coward. I think the next step for you is to try a few "why you hate America" or "why do you hate our freedom" patriotic BS.

I think your binary thinking is not taking you too far, and that would explain your current position as an ex military. As long as you enjoy what you are doing and enjoy living in a simplistic world of fear, you should be happy. You are perfectly free to enjoy those lies, but that does not mean you shouldn't let others call on those lies. But you might think that certain lies should be told while others should be kept secret.

So why not go see the movie ? a lot of "conservatives" wake up after they see it. Unless you are "afraid" of something ? can't be as bad as being on the front lines, but you wouldn't really know unless you go see it.

[chuckd]

Mr. Butterfly:

I am not one to wave the flag or to sing the National Anthem. I don't even know if you are an American, but I suspect so since you hate GWB so vehemently and have claimed your right to freely express that opinion.

I really don't give a whit about you or your opinion. I merely resent your use of the word "coward" when you have so obviously not earned that right. It must be my simplistic ex-military training that resents it. I also suspect you are one of those people that hate the military and only want the military around when your personal rights are being threatened. You probably feel the same way about the police, if the truth were known. I don't suppose we will ever know the truth about you will we. Alas, too bad.

I will offer a deal for you. I will go see the movie if you will volunteer to go to Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

Now I am bored with you and your senseless arguments. You are a cyber warrior and nothing else.

[Butterfly]

Mr. Butterfly:

I am not one to wave the flag or to sing the National Anthem. I don't even know if you are an American, but I suspect so since you hate GWB so vehemently and have claimed your right to freely express that opinion.

I really don't give a whit about you or your opinion. I merely resent your use of the word "coward" when you have so obviously not earned that right. It must be my simplistic ex-military training that resents it. I also suspect you are one of those people that hate the military and only want the military around when your personal rights are being threatened. You probably feel the same way about the police, if the truth were known. I don't suppose we will ever know the truth about you will we. Alas, too bad.

I will offer a deal for you. I will go see the movie if you will volunteer to go to Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

Now I am bored with you and your senseless arguments. You are a cyber warrior and nothing else.

Oh boy, must be really hot where you are. You are not making any sense. Must be that flawed logic you were taught in training camp. I bet you must be really proud.

So if I follow your logic, I would need to kill innocent civilians or be engaged in an unlawful war before I can call someone a coward ? whaooo. That's nice. Do you also beat your wife and call yourself an hero when you do ?

You certainly do not have any right as a "third party" to judge who should be called a coward. Absolutely Not. Who are you ? nobody. Who gave you that right ? nobody. It's not because you are used to giving orders as a "mercenary" (PC translation: private defense contractor) to drones in Saudi Arabia that it gives you a right to become a "judge" in a matter that didn't involve you in the first place. I am surprised you felt you were entitled to call me on this without any "intelligent" justification. I would have loved to have an interesting debate with you but it seems that you are missing the brain juice for it. Too bad.

Your deal is totally insane like the rest of your logic. I opposed the war, why should I go there. I am a hippie, remember ? we don't have armchairs.

Must be fun to live in your world where ignorance is bliss, slavery is freedom, and war is peace. Can I come ?

and yes I love wars with words rather than WMD

But I guess this would be too much to ask to an ex-military type turned mercenary... oops... I mean private defense contractor.

Again, peace and love, you need it most

[SoCal]

Axel- Not on a tirade, just tired of the BS, and ready to call a spade a spade. I think any one who wants to see it has every right. My comments were in regard to your comments about being able to see in Thailand, where you are free to do so. The direct insinuation is that we are not, which is a load of bunk. You also make a snide comment about Disney, as if they were some how controled by GWB. I am sure you will enjoy the film, as you are already of the same mind set.

ChuckD- Best you can do is ignore Bitterfly. He hates America, and is full of lies. You see how he attacks you, and really for no reason. Fact is I do not even like GWB, although respect him for how he handled himself directly after 9/11, but other than that, disagree with his policies. You dare to say that we are not in Iraq for the oil, and you are a war mongering NeoCon. They are quick to label you on this board, but are free to say what they want against the US.

See you at the gun club. I'll bring the beer, and don't forget your cowboy hat.

In all seriousness, be safe, and best to you and yours.

[Butterfly]

ChuckD- Best you can do is ignore Bitterfly. He hates America, and is full of lies. You see how he attacks you, and really for no reason. Fact is I do not even like GWB, although respect him for how he handled himself directly after 9/11, but other than that, disagree with his policies. You dare to say that we are not in Iraq for the oil, and you are a war mongering NeoCon. They are quick to label you on this board, but are free to say what they want against the US.

A true coward response. So much for the true patriot willing to defend his honor.

Sure they didn't go for the oil:

Reports: billions of Iraqi funds missing

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/06/27/...unds/index.html

Oh, you are so naive and so sweet. If people would be more like you, we woulnd't need to go to war over silly things and everybody would live in peace. Instead we have the Osama bin Laden, Bush, Cheney etc... who are nothing more than evil little creatures who are here to abuse sweet little things like you. SoCal, you are a victim if you truely believe in all that crap from this administration. And I hope you are not that naive. And giving a blank cheque to someone because of the way he behaved after 9/11 seems to me extremely irresponsible, borderline "stupid".

Anyway, good luck to you and I hope when you wake up the hangover won't be too big.

Let the real mess begin:

U.S. Formally Hands Iraq Self-Rule Two Days Early

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...8/ts_nm/iraq_dc

[SoCal]

Let the real mess begin:

U.S. Formally Hands Iraq Self-Rule Two Days Early

I know you hope so Bitterfly, as to you it will prove you right.

You are a bitter little man.

There is a good chance you are right, but I hope not. The Iraqi people have been through so much cr@p, and now have the freedom to choose their own destiny. They may do so to their own destruction, and much to your satisfaction, but it is their choice to make. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail, and they can build a decent life for themselves in their little part of the world. Either way, it is their choice, and either way you lose. Scratch your head, and figure that one out.

As I said before, have had quite enough of you. Surprised admins didn't close a long time ago, but guess they enjoy the circus.

I will go ahead and log back off now, and you can beat your chest, call me a coward, and frankly say what ever you want about me and my country.

The bully pulpit is yours,

SoCal

[chuckd]

SoCal:

Our little friend is effectively ignored. I see now it (Bitterfly, I like that) must be from either olde Europe or Australia by the way it spells "cheque".

Thanks for the comments. At least you seem sensible on this forum.

[chanchao]

To be continued...

at bearpit.net