All You Pattaya Scientists

[Humphrey Bear]

When sitting on the balcony of my room in Saudi - contemplating the setting sun and listening to the fourth prayer call of the day - I pour myself a Pepsi (or Coke - now there is no overt black-list).

I have noticed that, with or without ice, the first can fizzes a lot and one cannot pour more than half a can at a time.

However if the temperature is above 40C I do allow myself another can.

If I pour this second can into the same glass, with or without the same ice, the fizziness is much reduced and a whole can fits neatly into the tumbler.

Why the difference?

God, it's boring out here!

[soundman]

Crikey you must be bored.... Counting bubbles!!!

The phenomina is due to surfactants (commonly found within most household detergents)countained within bodily oils that pass from your lips (or other bodily parts) that transfer from your person to the glass & inhibit the longevity of the bubbles created by the carbonic acid within the said drink...

Cheers,

Soundman.

[monty]

Eating fried chicken while sipping from your glass greatly reduces the bubble/foam forming capacity of the carbonic acid....

[Lucifer]

Are you sure you're in Pattaya.

[Humphrey Bear]

Are you sure you're in Pattaya.

No, but I will be in one week - working a 13 wek / 2 week routine at the moment - minimum 60-hour week (No silly European Union rules out here )

How else do you expect me to support wife and two schoolage kids?

[Humphrey Bear]

Eating fried chicken while sipping from your glass greatly reduces the bubble/foam forming capacity of the carbonic acid....

But it doesn't reduce the foam-forming capacity of my waistline.

[Humphrey Bear]

Crikey you must be bored.... Counting bubbles!!!

The phenomina is due to surfactants (commonly found within most household detergents)countained within bodily oils that pass from your lips (or other bodily parts) that transfer from your person to the glass & inhibit the longevity of the bubbles created by the carbonic acid within the said drink...

Cheers,

Soundman.

Glad you said carbonic acid - not carbolic.

Some of the home-brew out here tastes nearer to the latter.

[Mid]

Soundman has it right ,

same with beer and the reason why professional drinking establishments ( Ozzie Pubs to the uninitiated ) issue a fresh glass with every drink .

[soundman]

Crikey you must be bored.... Counting bubbles!!!

The phenomina is due to surfactants (commonly found within most household detergents)countained within bodily oils that pass from your lips (or other bodily parts) that transfer from your person to the glass & inhibit the longevity of the bubbles created by the carbonic acid within the said drink...

Cheers,

Soundman.

Glad you said carbonic acid - not carbolic.

Some of the home-brew out here tastes nearer to the latter.

Carbolic That would clean the system out.... & probably destroy the spleen in the process!!!

Cheers,

Soundman.

[solo siam]

Surely its simply just dust in the glass!

Try wetting the glass with a little water, drain it and then pour the coke.

[katana]

...I have noticed that, with or without ice, the first can fizzes a lot and one cannot pour more than half a can at a time.

However if the temperature is above 40C I do allow myself another can.

If I pour this second can into the same glass, with or without the same ice, the fizziness is much reduced and a whole can fits neatly into the tumbler.

Why the difference?...

Are you taking the cokes from the fridge, so they're already chilled?

If you are then the explanation may be that carbon dioxide (CO2) is more soluble in cold water than hot water, which might go somewhat against intuition. That's why fizzy drinks on a cold day seem to keep their fizz longer.

The first time you pour the drink and it hits the hot glass, the CO2 comes out of solution and bubbles away. The second time you pour the drink into the same glass, the glass is already chilled somewhat by its previous contents, so less CO2 comes out of solution.

If the cokes weren't in the fridge and are already at room temperature, then I guess this explanation won't hold lol.

[Humphrey Bear]

Cokes in fridge - glass in cupboard (upside down so no dust)(except for the f***ing sandstorms!). Do not like cold glasses, except for draught in TQ of a lunchtime.

I sometimes drop ice cubes in, sometimes not. Decisions, decisions!

Whether ice in or out, second one always less fizzy.

Professional drinking establishments?? All you can find in ozzie bars is recycled kangaroo piss! VB (Very Bad) XXXX (that's what the first bloke to try it said) Swan (What can you expect from Perth) Foster's

And moving over the Tasman - Steinlager - baaaaaa!

I'm at work and I'm still bored!

[tropo]

Eating fried chicken while sipping from your glass greatly reduces the bubble/foam forming capacity of the carbonic acid....

But it doesn't reduce the foam-forming capacity of my waistline.

Just stick to the diet versions of these poisons. At least you won't get as fat as they destroy your body.

[chuckd]

Humphrey:

I, too, am in Saudi so I can well understand what small things it takes to amuse us.

I will try this next weekend as I am far too busy watching the grass grow and the paint dry during the week.

I will try with one each clean and dusty, chilled and non-chilled glasses and report back the results with both Pepsi, Coca Cola (bless the black list), Mirinda and the ubiquitous 7-Up.

Thank you for providing me entertainment for the weekend.

[onzestan]

My solution,

buy bigger glasses so the whole can goes in in one time. Problem solved.

But then again you would have to find a new pastime.

What about knitting bikini's for the girls at TQ? You wouldn't need much wool.

cheers

onzestan

Edited June 4, 2007 by onzestan

[Humphrey Bear]

My solution,

buy bigger glasses so the whole can goes in in one time. Problem solved.

But then again you would have to find a new pastime.

What about knitting bikini's for the girls at TQ? You wouldn't need much wool.

cheers

onzestan

Great idea! But I will crochet, rather than knit the bikinis.

Can't buy bigger glasses - they won't fit in the special little cut-out on my chair that holds the glass while I gaze out over endless vistas of sand, sand and yet more sand. There is the occasional camel or goat strolling by, but usually followed by a dozen lusting locals.

[onzestan]

Great idea! But I will crochet, rather than knit the bikinis.

Can't buy bigger glasses - they won't fit in the special little cut-out on my chair that holds the glass while I gaze out over endless vistas of sand, sand and yet more sand. There is the occasional camel or goat strolling by, but usually followed by a dozen lusting locals.

What about longer glasses then?

Please do not forget that I gave you the idea of the bikini's. Please invite me to the fitting, I'll be glad to bring my measuring tape.

cheers

Stan

[wilko]

with the second drink the glass is wet so the bubbles don't form so easily...as suggested wet the glass first.......and pour gently in down the side of the glass.

[morrobay]

Gases in solution , like oxygen in water or co2 in beer are contained physically. It is like they are held in molecular cages made of water molecules. The colder the water or coke the more bonding between the water molecules (forming cages) and the more gas can be held in solution.

As the temperature goes up the water molecules start moving faster , the molecular cages start breaking up and the gas goes out of solution. So your warmer coke had less CO2 in solution . If you pour salt in beer you will see co2 foaming up.This is called "salting out a gas" and happens because the water molecules ( being polar molecules) are attracted to the Na and Cl ions , therefore causing the cage formation to break up and releasing the CO2.

Edited June 4, 2007 by morrobay

[soundman]

Gases in solution , like oxygen in water or co2 in beer are contained physically. It is like they are held in molecular cages made of water molecules. The colder the water or coke the more bonding between the water molecules (forming cages) and the more gas can be held in solution.

As the temperature goes up the water molecules start moving faster , the molecular cages start breaking up and the gas goes out of solution. So your warmer coke had less CO2 in solution . If you pour salt in beer you will see co2 foaming up.This is called "salting out a gas" and happens because the water molecules ( being polar molecules) are attracted to the Na and Cl ions , therefore causing the cage formation to break up and releasing the CO2.

So..... Why does a bottle of softdrink that is hovering around 0 C sometimes turn to slushy ice when you take the lid off??

(Hint: its got everything to do with the molecules...)

Cheers,

Soundman.

[morrobay]

A can of softdrink at 0 degrees is under pressure, as you know ice is less dense that water thats why it floats . In order for the water at 0 degrees to convert to ice it must be able to expand. So when you open the can, ice is able to form.

The bonds between water molecules in ice are called hydrogen bonds and are formed between the negative oxygen end of the water molecule and the positve hydrogen end.

The lattice formation of ice has very fixed distances between the H2O s.

[Farma]

I think it's the clear (or is it brown you prefer) that you add to the coke. That stuff makes my coke flat, but who cares after a couple of drinks.

[Farma]

So..... Why does a bottle of softdrink that is hovering around 0 C sometimes turn to slushy ice when you take the lid off??

(Hint: its got everything to do with the molecules...)

Cheers,

Soundman.

Bottles of water do the same when the outside temperatures are high. When you crack the lid on the bottle you can watch the ice forming at the bottom and slowly move upwards.

[soundman]

A can of softdrink at 0 degrees is under pressure, as you know ice is less dense that water thats why it floats . In order for the water at 0 degrees to convert to ice it must be able to expand. So when you open the can, ice is able to form.

The bonds between water molecules in ice are called hydrogen bonds and are formed between the negative oxygen end of the water molecule and the positve hydrogen end.

The lattice formation of ice has very fixed distances between the H2O s.

You are correct in the fact that anything under pressure has a lower freezing / boiling point.

But with respect to the freezing in the bottle upon opening (which Farma correctly described as working from the bottom up) you are incorrect. The pressure differential is so minute that it makes literally no difference to the freezing temperature & latent energy required to complete the process.

(Hint - think about expanding gases coming out of solution not water molecules)

Cheers,

Soundman.

[PhilHarries]

A can of softdrink at 0 degrees is under pressure, as you know ice is less dense that water thats why it floats . In order for the water at 0 degrees to convert to ice it must be able to expand. So when you open the can, ice is able to form.

The bonds between water molecules in ice are called hydrogen bonds and are formed between the negative oxygen end of the water molecule and the positve hydrogen end.

The lattice formation of ice has very fixed distances between the H2O s.

You are correct in the fact that anything under pressure has a lower freezing / boiling point.

But with respect to the freezing in the bottle upon opening (which Farma correctly described as working from the bottom up) you are incorrect. The pressure differential is so minute that it makes literally no difference to the freezing temperature & latent energy required to complete the process.

(Hint - think about expanding gases coming out of solution not water molecules)

Cheers,

Soundman.

Actually liquids under pressure have a higher boiling point, you may be too young to remember the good old pressure cookers - thing of the past now microwaves rule. In the refining industry we are distilling out the various fractions (naphtha, kerosine, gas oils) at well above their atmospheric boiling points but the process is done under low to moderate pressures so they are condensing out as liquids. The water temperature at the deep sea hydrothermal vents can be as high as 400 degrees C but due to the pressure the water remains as water.

Liquids at lower pressures boil at lower temperatures which is why you'll never make a good cup of tea at the top of mount Everest - as good a reason as any not to climb up there.

The freezing point of liquids also is higher under pressure except for liquids, like water, that expand on freezing when it is lower. This is also muddled by the dissolved CO2 in carbonated drinks which is why you can take a bottle of beer out the freezer and is liquid until you open it, the pressure drops and it turns to slush.

[soundman]

A can of softdrink at 0 degrees is under pressure, as you know ice is less dense that water thats why it floats . In order for the water at 0 degrees to convert to ice it must be able to expand. So when you open the can, ice is able to form.

The bonds between water molecules in ice are called hydrogen bonds and are formed between the negative oxygen end of the water molecule and the positve hydrogen end.

The lattice formation of ice has very fixed distances between the H2O s.

You are correct in the fact that anything under pressure has a lower freezing / boiling point.

But with respect to the freezing in the bottle upon opening (which Farma correctly described as working from the bottom up) you are incorrect. The pressure differential is so minute that it makes literally no difference to the freezing temperature & latent energy required to complete the process.

(Hint - think about expanding gases coming out of solution not water molecules)

Cheers,

Soundman.

Actually liquids under pressure have a higher boiling point, you may be too young to remember the good old pressure cookers - thing of the past now microwaves rule. In the refining industry we are distilling out the various fractions (naphtha, kerosine, gas oils) at well above their atmospheric boiling points but the process is done under low to moderate pressures so they are condensing out as liquids. The water temperature at the deep sea hydrothermal vents can be as high as 400 degrees C but due to the pressure the water remains as water.

Liquids at lower pressures boil at lower temperatures which is why you'll never make a good cup of tea at the top of mount Everest - as good a reason as any not to climb up there.

The freezing point of liquids also is higher under pressure except for liquids, like water, that expand on freezing when it is lower. This is also muddled by the dissolved CO2 in carbonated drinks which is why you can take a bottle of beer out the freezer and is liquid until you open it, the pressure drops and it turns to slush.

Thanx Phil.

Edit typo - lower read higher. Thats what I mean't. Was typing four posts simultaneaously at the time, whilst eating dinner.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[morrobay]

Gases in solution , like oxygen in water or co2 in beer are contained physically. It is like they are held in molecular cages made of water molecules. The colder the water or coke the more bonding between the water molecules (forming cages) and the more gas can be held in solution.

As the temperature goes up the water molecules start moving faster , the molecular cages start breaking up and the gas goes out of solution. So your warmer coke had less CO2 in solution . If you pour salt in beer you will see co2 foaming up.This is called "salting out a gas" and happens because the water molecules ( being polar molecules) are attracted to the Na and Cl ions , therefore causing the cage formation to break up and releasing the CO2.

Correction/addition

Carbon dioxide also disolves in water / solution to form carbonic acid:

CO2 +H2O = H2CO3 and the reaction is reversible.

The fact that more of any gas can be disolved in a solution with lower temperature is

related to the Gibbs free energy equation: G=H-TS

G= free energy and the more negative the more forward the reaction .

H= change in heat and is negative as solution is cooled.

T= temperature

S= change in entropy/disorder

In the case of a gas disolving in a solution the entropy is negative since it will be in a more ordered state in solution than in the atmosphere.

So you can see from the signs in the equation that the lower the T temperature the more favorable for the gas to be in solution.

Im not a scientist but I have science background : BS biology & chemistry minor,

San Diego State. So I dont like leaving things up in the air.

[raro]

Im not a scientist but I have science background : BS biology & chemistry minor,

San Diego State. So I dont like leaving things up in the air.

I do have a major BS.....does that count?

[basjke]

Im not a scientist but I have science background : BS biology & chemistry minor,

San Diego State. So I dont like leaving things up in the air.

I do have a major BS.....does that count?

I'm not a scientist but the biggest reason that the coke fizzels is the difference in temprature between the glass and the coke.When you pour in the second can the glass is closer to the temprature of the coke since it has cooled down from the previous drink.

spelling error

Edited June 5, 2007 by basjke

[Humphrey Bear]

I think it's the clear (or is it brown you prefer) that you add to the coke. That stuff makes my coke flat, but who cares after a couple of drinks.

Unfortunately not on this job.

Only put in the additives if I'm sure of the source and where I am at the moment this is not so.

Ahh, memories of working for Scandinavian companies, where we could get quality controlled additives.