Us Court Jurisdiction

[Bob Chittie]

Wouldn't taking the bankrupcy path preclude you from residency ? I have heard they, Immigration, ask your embassy to confirm that you are not bankrupt/insolvent as well as free from legal obstruction and without a criminal record. Not knowing if you want to go for residency of course, but may be of relevence to you situation.

Los has NO central credit reference agency. Therefore, there is no one for the US debt collectors to approach as to your assets. Of course, if you have a visa which required you to have certain level of income or savings, then the state may have an audit trail.

There are a several things to consider when assessing the Likelihood of the creditors chasing you cross border:

- How much you owe them - is it worth the cost. [not Likely in your case]

- Likelihood of recovery of enough to make chase viable [pretty low]

- Does it harm their image to NOT chase you/improve there image if they do - [Doubtful chasing will benefit them in this way].

- Do they know your wareabouts - [probably in your case as you have been paying from a Thai address (?)]

- How easy is it to raise an asset lock in Thailand. What is the success rate of this. [don't know the answer to this one - I suppose that in itself is an answer though]

- Can they recover costs elswhere. [yes, they sell your dept to a collection agency and get back 50% or so - they rest they claim from insurance. The credit agency chases locally in the US, discovers you've left the country and sits on it. Eventually, if you do not return, they claim on their insurance and close the account]

I think as above, that it is very unlikely that they will come-a-hunting. Most likely they will wreck your credit history at home, and leave you be.

If you have an audit trail from a Thai bank to them, then open another account (with cash) and keep your other one only if you need it for visa purposes (shows your transfer from abroad etc).

If you go back, then don't refer to your listed addresses (those that were linked with your bad debt). Don't let it keep you up at night, these b*starts make enough money out of people and are insured up the wazzoo.

Thanks for the comments. I have lost sleep over this, especially as I first started to be unable to make payments. Although I have been encourgaed by many of the posts here.

Yes, because I was using the cards here and (making payments) for many years, they could find me relatively easily if they were so inclined to send a representative my way. We'll cross that brigde when we come to it.

Thanks again to the more positive posters.

[Begs]

Bob, don't worry about it, 95% of the guys i knew in pattaya had stiffed the credit card companies before settling down in LOS, and the ones that had not where asked WHY?

I knew a guy that was also very worried, he went back to the UK, got arrested for something trivial, when the Duty officer ran his name through the Computer to look for any outstanding warrants, nothing at all, he was clean as a whistle, just cannot open any Bank Accounts or get any Credit Cards. Its personl debt, those bastards encourage people to spend , spend , spend, and people do. Not all are able or willing to pay back, its a risk that they take, thats why they have insurance.

Unsecured Loans are a risk that the lender takes.

Bob do not worry about it at all, the sum you owe is nothing. You should have hit a few Banks for unsecured loans whilst you was at it.

If they jailed everybody that had defaulted on a debt in the UK, They would have to build many more prisons, bad debt is just that, Bad Debt.

Forget about it. The moralists on this forum will no doubt flame me, but most of them are trolling anyway. Anyway, do not lose any sleep over it. You are just one of Millions in the same position.

[maerim]

Many people have credit cards, I am one of them, the reason the fees and interest is at the level it is, because of people like you.

Do you really believe that?

Same as if nobody ever made a fraudulent claim on theit insurance the premiums would go down and if there were no shoplifting prices would come down.

I for one take that with a large shovel of salt.

[walker]

A couple of things:  1) Johpa....I think you meant "life on the lam", not "life on the lamb", as that would be either Wyoming or New Zealand.  2) Bob, I really don't think you can assert that what you are doing is not fraud....you may be a very nice guy, but stiffing your creditors, running and attempting to hide your assets (for whatever reason) certainly is fraud, which is defined as "a deliberate deception for unfair gain", exactly what you're doing.  The "why" or the rest of your moral character doesn't enter the definition.  And the moral posturing makes you the sort of guy I'm not inviting to my house, because I'm sure you could justify theft as well......actually, you already have, you're just trying to get away with it.

So you are not only a deadbeat who is going to stiff some bank for tens of thousands of dollars which the rest of us will have to make up in increased interest rates and assorted other bank and merchant fees but you are also an arrogant SOB to boot.

Deafulting on unsecured debt is not fraud, no matter how much you'd like to convince yourself to the contrary. This wasn't planned. I didn't max out the cards one day and buy a plane ticket to Thailand.

'Hiding my assets' (as if there's millions of dollars in swiss bank accounts) so that I have a chance to rebuild and eventually actually pay my creditors back is simple logic. The alternative is to give the money away, (an amount that would not even begin to satisfy the creditors) and have no chance at rebuilding and no chance at paying off my debts. So am I trying to 'get away with that'? Absolutley. And I make no apologies.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not here looking for sympathy or approval. I'm here to get information to better help me look out for number one. That's exactly what I've gotten and that's exactly what I will do.

God forbid any of the hostile posters here ever find themselves in a such a situation. But I suppose they are all above that. Certainly it could never happen to them.

Johpa, your sympathy for the banks is really very sweet, but perhaps a bit naive. Keep your credit score high and your interest rates will be low. Don't let your blood pressure increase over the likes of deadbeats like myself.

Bob......no. Hiding assets isn't logic. It is fraud....read the definition again. And no, I personally don't have anything against you. Defaulting can happen; I have no problem with that; trying to beat the bank is the issue. Would ANYONE on this site (or anyone who knows what the readers do) loan you money? Yet I'll wager that many of them have loaned money to people with worse money problems than you. I think what rankles people is the fact that you have solicited information on how to cheat the system. As for sympathy for the banks....sympathy is for living creatures, not institutions. As for your making money so as to repay it, your track record (statistically, at least) rather mitigates against that, don't you think?

[Bob Chittie]

A couple of things:  1) Johpa....I think you meant "life on the lam", not "life on the lamb", as that would be either Wyoming or New Zealand.  2) Bob, I really don't think you can assert that what you are doing is not fraud....you may be a very nice guy, but stiffing your creditors, running and attempting to hide your assets (for whatever reason) certainly is fraud, which is defined as "a deliberate deception for unfair gain", exactly what you're doing.  The "why" or the rest of your moral character doesn't enter the definition.  And the moral posturing makes you the sort of guy I'm not inviting to my house, because I'm sure you could justify theft as well......actually, you already have, you're just trying to get away with it.

So you are not only a deadbeat who is going to stiff some bank for tens of thousands of dollars which the rest of us will have to make up in increased interest rates and assorted other bank and merchant fees but you are also an arrogant SOB to boot.

Deafulting on unsecured debt is not fraud, no matter how much you'd like to convince yourself to the contrary. This wasn't planned. I didn't max out the cards one day and buy a plane ticket to Thailand.

'Hiding my assets' (as if there's millions of dollars in swiss bank accounts) so that I have a chance to rebuild and eventually actually pay my creditors back is simple logic. The alternative is to give the money away, (an amount that would not even begin to satisfy the creditors) and have no chance at rebuilding and no chance at paying off my debts. So am I trying to 'get away with that'? Absolutley. And I make no apologies.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not here looking for sympathy or approval. I'm here to get information to better help me look out for number one. That's exactly what I've gotten and that's exactly what I will do.

God forbid any of the hostile posters here ever find themselves in a such a situation. But I suppose they are all above that. Certainly it could never happen to them.

Johpa, your sympathy for the banks is really very sweet, but perhaps a bit naive. Keep your credit score high and your interest rates will be low. Don't let your blood pressure increase over the likes of deadbeats like myself.

Bob......no. Hiding assets isn't logic. It is fraud....read the definition again. And no, I personally don't have anything against you. Defaulting can happen; I have no problem with that; trying to beat the bank is the issue. Would ANYONE on this site (or anyone who knows what the readers do) loan you money? Yet I'll wager that many of them have loaned money to people with worse money problems than you. I think what rankles people is the fact that you have solicited information on how to cheat the system. As for sympathy for the banks....sympathy is for living creatures, not institutions. As for your making money so as to repay it, your track record (statistically, at least) rather mitigates against that, don't you think?

This can go on and on. We disagree. Okay. But remember, you don't know my intentions or me. 'Cheating the system'... It depends on how that is defined. Obvioulsy we define it differently. I would say I am endeavouring to understand the system so as not to be destroyed by it. You would say I am stealing or defrauding. We agree to disagree. Although, I have already stated that I can understand why there might be some resentment towrds me.

I appear to be 'getting away with something' to some. But there are plenty of ramifications. I will deal with my situation and those who are able to pay their bills on time and maintain good credit can enjoy their situation.

And I don't expect anyone here to lend me money.

[Flummoxed]

I think Johpa and Walker must be Bankers (read between the lines;-)) and I bet they don't even curse.

.....and the only criminals in situations like this are the credit card companies and banks. In fact they are more likely to give a credit card to someone who is unlikely to make full balance payments because they know the can financially rape them on the interest.

Years ago, it all went wrong for me in Hong Kong and I had nothing. With my credit card in default, I wound up back in the UK with nothing. A friend of mine was good enough to help me back on my feet and that involved a loan of some money. I paid every penny of it back. How dare you people suggest that Bob would rip off his friends. You've never met him. Defaulting on a credit card is no reflection of a man's character.

This man came to this forum for friendly advice, so take your 'I'm squeaky clean' attitude elsewhere.

Many businessmen or individuals who owe millions of dollars through poor sharedealing or malpractice can simply file for bankrupcy. Their debt is effectively written off and after a few short years, they can start all over again.....If that's not cheating the system, I don't know what is.

Every day my bank swindles me out of money... but that's OK, apparently.

[Bob Chittie]

Thanks Flummoxed. It seems I've split the forum 50/50 on this one. You're right, I would never rip off a friend. I view the credit card companies in a very different light. No on e will be personally hurt. I don't buy the 'increased fees because of people like you' argument. Keep your credit score high and you will be treated very well by the credit card people.

To all you 'bankers' out there who are disgusted with me, may I remind you that I can simply file bankruptcy and end it? This is perfectly legal. No scam. No fraud. I'm bankrupt. That's it. Would you feel different about me then?

But it costs money, takes time, and involves a lenthgy and expensive trip to the US. I've decided against it for now.

[ChiangMaiThai]

I would say to try to work out some kind of payment plan with them. They may be really willing to negotiate considering the circumstances. Good luck.

[Bobcat]

Judgments entered by any non-Thai court are not enforceable in Thailand. The creditor would have to bring a separate action or claim in Thailand. While a non-Thai judgment could be introduced as evidence in a court proceeding in Thailand, a Thai court would be free to examine the case again from the start. To the extent a creditor is entitled to any recovery in any Thai proceedings, recovery might be limited to Baht, depending on the relevant court’s discretion.

Regards,

Bob

[Begs]

Bob, nothing will happen. Don't worry.

[ka12345]

When I first got to Thailand I received a letter from a UK bank addressed to "current resident" at my address. They asked if I knew anything about the whereabouts of the previous resident (a british guy in the same situation as you). I threw it away and never got another letter. Don't know if they found him through other channels or just gave up.