Eucalyptus Trees - Limit Damage

[Joe Walshe]

My wife recently purchased 200 rai with 2-3 year old eucalyptus trees on it. I have read many threads on the subject of Eucalyptus trees and would prefer to get rid of them. I am hoping to limit soil damage by fertilising several times a year and cutting trees when they reach maturity in 2 or 3 years. This is the first plantation of Eucalyptus trees so I'm hoping soils won't be too degraded.

Any ideas on;

How best to limit damage to soil?

How best to replendish soil, now and later?

What other type of trees to provide diversity and income?

we already have another farm with large fish ponds, Mangoes, coconuts, Cows, chickens and wide range of native trees. Wildlife, insects and edible plants thrive there.

[Gary A]

My wife recently purchased 200 rai with 2-3 year old eucalyptus trees on it. I have read many threads on the subject of Eucalyptus trees and would prefer to get rid of them. I am hoping to limit soil damage by fertilising several times a year and cutting trees when they reach maturity in 2 or 3 years. This is the first plantation of Eucalyptus trees so I'm hoping soils won't be too degraded.

Any ideas on;

How best to limit damage to soil?

How best to replendish soil, now and later?

What other type of trees to provide diversity and income?

we already have another farm with large fish ponds, Mangoes, coconuts, Cows, chickens and wide range of native trees. Wildlife, insects and edible plants thrive there.

A couple of years ago I bought my wife ten rai that was grown up with weeds and brush. The original plan was to clear the land and plant eucalyptus trees. I had researched those trees and posted here on the board my concerns. I finally came to the conclusion that they would not damage the soil and were no danger to future crops. After we got the land cleared we found out that the land was much better and more fertile than we had thought. What finally killed the eucalyptus tree idea was my wife's father. He said that he was of the opinion that the trees would not harm the land BUT, they rooted deep and that someday someone would have to take out the stumps. He said the cost of taking the stumps out was about as much as we would make from the tree crop.

[Tilapia]

I've heard simular things, but Gary, now you have the tractor, taking out stumps would be the perfect challenge...What do you think ???

[sibeymai]

I don't think a single rotation of eucalyptus will do any significant damage over a short period, say 5-6 years. The stump removal is a valid point, if trees are allowed to grown very large. At least any degradation should not be any greater than growing something like tapioca on short rotations.

If you really want to know about the soil quality take some samples to Kasetsart University's Forestry faculty and get it analysed. It's not expensive. If the land has been farmed for a period of time you'll probably find a PH level in the lower range and low organic matter content. Both conditions are easily corrected over time with a bit of regular attention.

[Gary A]

I've heard simular things, but Gary, now you have the tractor, taking out stumps would be the perfect challenge...What do you think ???

I don't think I'll take that challenge. Those trees that have leaves like a fern and grow everywhere, root fairly shallow and any of them over about three inches diameter come out plenty hard enough.

I am a little surprised that I have not seen what is called a clearing blade here in Thailand. That blade has a large sharp knife on one side that goes fairly deep and cuts the roots on one side of a tree. Two passes at 90 degrees and the rest of the tree/stump is much easier to push out. That may be a good project for some enterprising young man. That four wheel drive Ford advertised on the board with a blade like that may pay for itself quickly clearing stumps.

[C-sip-degree]

My wife recently purchased 200 rai with 2-3 year old eucalyptus trees on it. I have read many threads on the subject of Eucalyptus trees and would prefer to get rid of them. I am hoping to limit soil damage by fertilising several times a year and cutting trees when they reach maturity in 2 or 3 years. This is the first plantation of Eucalyptus trees so I'm hoping soils won't be too degraded.

Any ideas on;

How best to limit damage to soil?

How best to replendish soil, now and later?

What other type of trees to provide diversity and income?

we already have another farm with large fish ponds, Mangoes, coconuts, Cows, chickens and wide range of native trees. Wildlife, insects and edible plants thrive there.

Joe

It may not be what you want to hear, and I can’t really help you out with your questions, but if it was me I would let it grow harvesting it every 3years plus and look around for another land project.

I wish my wife had more Eucalyptus trees because the return on our 5Rai is around 14-16 thousand Baht every 36 to 40 months.

Out of all the small projects we are doing (rice, mangos, cattle) eucalyptus is the only one that returns a profit at such a great margin.

I don’t need a calculator with Eucalyptus to see how much I have spent versus what where going to earn.

What to put back in to Eucalyptus trees ‘good question I don’t know or really care we just throw some cow excrement around them and give them a quick trim up two or three days work per year is the bit I like here......

‘hel_l if you had to start spending time and money that would soon take the fun out of it’.

I wouldn’t worry let the stuff grow, once the cutting crew finds you they will be there every three plus years and pay your Wife cash before starting.

Look around for another project for land and work on that, knowing that you’ll have a sweet deal with the trees.

Regards

C-sip

[Joe Walshe]

Much apreciate valuable contributions. I wonder, after Eucalyptus is cut, It might be feasible to re-plant area with other trees ie. Mango, teak, lime - mixture of varieties. I could leave tree stumps to eventually rot. In Ireland, where I work, we sometimes kill trees by simply injecting a small amount of diesel into bark. This is lethal and the tree dies. This might stop the tree stumps re-growing.

Joe

[sbk]

Interesting article regarding Eucalyptus in Thailand,

http://www.info.tdri.or.th/library/quarterly/text/j90_1.htm

[Joe Walshe]

apreciate link to Eucalyptus study. This report is dated 1990. 17 years ago. So figures of for example profit of 450 THB per rai are perhaps different now.

[Gary A]

Much apreciate valuable contributions. I wonder, after Eucalyptus is cut, It might be feasible to re-plant area with other trees ie. Mango, teak, lime - mixture of varieties. I could leave tree stumps to eventually rot. In Ireland, where I work, we sometimes kill trees by simply injecting a small amount of diesel into bark. This is lethal and the tree dies. This might stop the tree stumps re-growing.

Joe

I'd bet that it will be difficult to stop those stumps from sprouting and even if you could kill them you still have to keep weeds down for other crops or trees. Steering around stumps is not an easy efficient thing to do. If your crop of eucalyptus trees looks pretty good. I'd let them go until they no longer produce, then worry about the stumps. I have never seen a stump grinder/chipper in Thailand either. A decent stump grinder would make short work of eucalyptus stumps.

[mark lamai]

i'm no farmer but

in victoria, australia, lots of farmland has been given over to growing plantations of Blue Gum.

i believe they are fast growing and have a straight trunk,

perfect for saw milling.

the hardwood produced is very long lasting.

farmers tired of the vagaries of sheep and wool make more by leasing their land to a timber company.

i guess there is money there somewhere.

the most common hardwood in aus is the "mountain ash" or "tasmanian oak"

both the same eucalypt.

expensive nowadays, so used for visible polished flooring and other hard wearing decorative ways.

not good for cabinets really because it's too hard.

other thing about eucalypts is that they seem to grow anywhere with little care.

drought resistant etc.

a lot of house framing in aus used to be "OB hardwood", that is green (un-dried) eucalypt.

when it dries after a few years its so hard you can't nail into it.

also seen eucalypt growing at Bagan in Burma, now that's a hostile environment.

[blueeyes]

Hi this is my first time on here so please bare with me. Can you help me with my question about eucalyptas trees?? is it possible to make charcoal from the stump??

[Master Chief]

It may not be what you want to hear, and I can’t really help you out with your questions, but if it was me I would let it grow harvesting it every 3years plus and look around for another land project.

I wish my wife had more Eucalyptus trees because the return on our 5Rai is around 14-16 thousand Baht every 36 to 40 months.

Out of all the small projects we are doing (rice, mangos, cattle) eucalyptus is the only one that returns a profit at such a great margin.

I don’t need a calculator with Eucalyptus to see how much I have spent versus what where going to earn.

What to put back in to Eucalyptus trees ‘good question I don’t know or really care we just throw some cow excrement around them and give them a quick trim up two or three days work per year is the bit I like here......

‘hel_l if you had to start spending time and money that would soon take the fun out of it’.

I wouldn’t worry let the stuff grow, once the cutting crew finds you they will be there every three plus years and pay your Wife cash before starting.

Look around for another project for land and work on that, knowing that you’ll have a sweet deal with the trees.

Regards

C-sip

Hi C-sip

My family has planted about 15 rai in BuriRam with Eucalyptus one year ago, I posted a message to receive some farming information regarding these trees and got really bashed by this forum's members!

I researched quite well before and advised the family to the up and downs of this project, they descided to go ahead and plant the small tree plants.

I have tried to get some figures out of the gaining in this tree project and have very little to go on. So now I read your post here and you say that after all your spending to grow and nursing these trees you have a profit of ca. 2800 baht per rai every 36 - 48 months. Is this correct read from my side?

Brgs,

MC

[Loom]

Hi this is my first time on here so please bare with me. Can you help me with my question about eucalyptas trees?? is it possible to make charcoal from the stump??

Yes, wife used to have a small patch of eucalyptas on part of her property that wasn't good for growing rice. People used to come collect dead branches for cooking fuel and charcoal.

[andrisdg]

eucs are a goer if done properly from a income aspect .its human greed at its best .the soils in the ne are poor .basically slash and burn and even with trad crops like rice soon need fertiliser ,which few do adequately because of cost .the problems are not soil or roots ,its a cottage culture .use of poor locally sourced seed and planting for greed at 1x1 metre spacings .large euc stands suck up water but also reduce subsistence food availability .it thus depresses peoples free nutritional sources and reduces income to those not in the business .thai studies show it increases rural poverty .thais crop at 3 years juvenile trees and the branches are sold as part of the bio mass . using superior seeds from aus and planted at 3 x3 metres or 167 /ria ,and fertilising 50kgs/ria every year one can expect after 5 to 7 years to crop 150 to 250 kgs/tree trunk only no branches and 25kgs plus of sticks .the trunk sells currently for 1000bt /ton [starting with 3 y.o at about 3 inch diameter or 75m? ]and the sticks 600/bt /ton[thin branches] .cutting and delivery to point of local sale is currently about 35bt /tree .the trees regrow ,trimming back to 1 or 2 new truncks not 5 to 15 and no maintence as is often the case and after 3 cycles should be ripped up according to thai forestry and you can replant .thai forestry have seeds of doudtful quality but better than local .they estimate to rip out stump is currently 50 bt using day labour .done properly with superior aus imported seeds ,excluding land purchase,using day labour and tractor hire ,3000/ria to establish is tops in 1st 18 months .after that its optional it might be 1000 bt/ria/year for fertiliser and maintence using day labor .problem is fire and the rats nibbling at the trees and know body sees anything as they dissapear to regrow .work it out if you dont benefit they will .but with or without a lease specific to the enterprise you own the trees and not the land and if the deal sours if all goes well you can cut and sell at least what is there at the time .the future crops are not yours ,they are a gift unless you also rip out the stumps .in 5/7 years time more mechanisation should be available for tree harvesting .in the ne this is the first year i have seen a elimentary mechanical sugar planter .economics and rural demographics due to increased rural labour shortages will see additional mechanisation .recently tree contract cutters became available and agents are f/wd buying existing cottage euc stands for cutting in 4 years time at a bad price to the seller .when you work it out if it works for you its probably the best farming option currently available on paper

[C-sip-degree]

Hi C-sip

My family has planted about 15 rai in BuriRam with Eucalyptus one year ago, I posted a message to receive some farming information regarding these trees and got really bashed by this forum's members!

I researched quite well before and advised the family to the up and downs of this project, they descided to go ahead and plant the small tree plants.

I have tried to get some figures out of the gaining in this tree project and have very little to go on. So now I read your post here and you say that after all your spending to grow and nursing these trees you have a profit of ca. 2800 baht per rai every 36 - 48 months. Is this correct read from my side?

Brgs,

MC

Master Chief.

Yes correct @14...

Last cut was @16... 'cash' in the wifes hand before cutting. @ 40months...

Have used this cutting Crew twice now, last thing the Boss said as they were rolling out was see you again.

Good-luck

Regards

C-sip

[fred1234]

Hi C-sip

My family has planted about 15 rai in BuriRam with Eucalyptus one year ago, I posted a message to receive some farming information regarding these trees and got really bashed by this forum's members!

I researched quite well before and advised the family to the up and downs of this project, they descided to go ahead and plant the small tree plants.

I have tried to get some figures out of the gaining in this tree project and have very little to go on. So now I read your post here and you say that after all your spending to grow and nursing these trees you have a profit of ca. 2800 baht per rai every 36 - 48 months. Is this correct read from my side?

Brgs,

MC

Master Chief.

Yes correct @14...

Last cut was @16... 'cash' in the wifes hand before cutting. @ 40months...

Have used this cutting Crew twice now, last thing the Boss said as they were rolling out was see you again.

Good-luck

Regards

C-sip

Hi C-sip,

Just a quick question from a newbie. My wife is planting about 100 rai with euca.

I was under the impression that after 3-4 years it would yield something like 10000B/rai (1 rai = 350 trees).

If it is not too much to ask, how much does the cutting crew pay you (or your wife) after 3-4 years?

From what I read in your reply, 10000B is way too optimistic.

The land we're planting it on is fairly poor, so euca seemed the best option.

Best regards,

Fred.

[steveromagnino]

don't forget you also have to spend a fair chunk digging all the roots out as well at the end of it.

My family had at one point like 10,000 rai almost of Euca, and it hasn't been nearly as profitable as what was hoped; the trees guzzle water and screw up any land nearby plus the damage to the land after cutting is quite a bit.

But still worth it as we got the land so cheap after 1998.

[C-sip-degree]

Hi C-sip

My family has planted about 15 rai in BuriRam with Eucalyptus one year ago, I posted a message to receive some farming information regarding these trees and got really bashed by this forum's members!

I researched quite well before and advised the family to the up and downs of this project, they descided to go ahead and plant the small tree plants.

I have tried to get some figures out of the gaining in this tree project and have very little to go on. So now I read your post here and you say that after all your spending to grow and nursing these trees you have a profit of ca. 2800 baht per rai every 36 - 48 months. Is this correct read from my side?

Brgs,

MC

Master Chief.

Yes correct @14...

Last cut was @16... 'cash' in the wifes hand before cutting. @ 40months...

Have used this cutting Crew twice now, last thing the Boss said as they were rolling out was see you again.

Good-luck

Regards

C-sip

Hi C-sip,

Just a quick question from a newbie. My wife is planting about 100 rai with euca.

I was under the impression that after 3-4 years it would yield something like 10000B/rai (1 rai = 350 trees).

If it is not too much to ask, how much does the cutting crew pay you (or your wife) after 3-4 years?

From what I read in your reply, 10000B is way too optimistic.

The land we're planting it on is fairly poor, so euca seemed the best option.

Best regards,

Fred.

Hey Fred,

Hope you’ll get that much? Way too high for are area outside of Roi-et..

‘Wife gets as posted’ a simple $3200 per rai every 36-40 months.

We have tried to do small farm projects and see what works in the end.

Rice, Mango’s, Cattle all come with there problems but having the small block of eucalyptus trees has never made me worry during the night.

You kind of just forget about them and concentrate on other white elephant projects where all doing, “No offense intended”

Wife doesn’t make enough money from eucalyptus to keep the air-con or UBC running.

‘Trust me’.

This question has been pounding me on the head over the years ‘what does in Isaan’

I have no answers for this mate, 14 years plus my answer is simple nothing works, with farming but it’s all a fun filled rocket trip that I fueled.

Wife now has a tour bus business since the beginning of the year….

God I wish we had kept things simple and gone with more Eucalyptus…

Good luck with yours

Regards

C-sip

Free advice... from the bottom of the bottle.

Over the last few years Thai farmers in Isaan are planting alot more rubber trees, sounds like ‘don-young’ in Thai. I sure you know.

Large land like you say you have, think about a 7rai plant of don-young trees every year for 7 years.

50-50 could be a good way to go.

[fred1234]

Hi C-sip

My family has planted about 15 rai in BuriRam with Eucalyptus one year ago, I posted a message to receive some farming information regarding these trees and got really bashed by this forum's members!

I researched quite well before and advised the family to the up and downs of this project, they descided to go ahead and plant the small tree plants.

I have tried to get some figures out of the gaining in this tree project and have very little to go on. So now I read your post here and you say that after all your spending to grow and nursing these trees you have a profit of ca. 2800 baht per rai every 36 - 48 months. Is this correct read from my side?

Brgs,

MC

Master Chief.

Yes correct @14...

Last cut was @16... 'cash' in the wifes hand before cutting. @ 40months...

Have used this cutting Crew twice now, last thing the Boss said as they were rolling out was see you again.

Good-luck

Regards

C-sip

Hi C-sip,

Just a quick question from a newbie. My wife is planting about 100 rai with euca.

I was under the impression that after 3-4 years it would yield something like 10000B/rai (1 rai = 350 trees).

If it is not too much to ask, how much does the cutting crew pay you (or your wife) after 3-4 years?

From what I read in your reply, 10000B is way too optimistic.

The land we're planting it on is fairly poor, so euca seemed the best option.

Best regards,

Fred.

Hey Fred,

Hope you'll get that much? Way too high for are area outside of Roi-et..

'Wife gets as posted' a simple $3200 per rai every 36-40 months.

We have tried to do small farm projects and see what works in the end.

Rice, Mango's, Cattle all come with there problems but having the small block of eucalyptus trees has never made me worry during the night.

You kind of just forget about them and concentrate on other white elephant projects where all doing, "No offense intended"

Wife doesn't make enough money from eucalyptus to keep the air-con or UBC running.

'Trust me'.

This question has been pounding me on the head over the years 'what does in Isaan'

I have no answers for this mate, 14 years plus my answer is simple nothing works, with farming but it's all a fun filled rocket trip that I fueled.

Wife now has a tour bus business since the beginning of the year….

God I wish we had kept things simple and gone with more Eucalyptus…

Good luck with yours

Regards

C-sip

Free advice... from the bottom of the bottle.

Over the last few years Thai farmers in Isaan are planting alot more rubber trees, sounds like 'don-young' in Thai. I sure you know.

Large land like you say you have, think about a 7rai plant of don-young trees every year for 7 years.

50-50 could be a good way to go.

Hi C-sip,

Thanks for your reply. Your 3200 B ($ would be nice ) per rai is disappointing, but I can see why you would consider it easy money.

Our land is near Ubon and there are notices for euca of 800 B per 1000 kg (or so I'm told). I would think 350 trees (1 rai) would yield more than 4-5 tonnes of wood after 3 years (note that I'm a newbie). Do you have also something like 350 trees/rai on your land?

As for the rubber trees: we have those too. The euca planting is on soil not suitable for rubber. Seemed like a good idea at the time, because of the low cost of the land and the low maintenance of euca.

Thanks for your advice. Here is Holland it's more like sip-ha degrees.

Best regards, Fred.

[C-sip-degree]

Fred,

Not that many per rai for us, @ 3meter square separation we got about 160 per rai and kept two meters off the fence line.

Hope this helps.

Regards

C-sip

[Tilapia]

Any kind of farming is tough work, and little profit, I see that every day, and the bigger you make it, the more problem you get, if the profit was growing in the same rate as the problems, then it would be ok, but in most cases, thatt dosent happen, myself included

Tilapia.

[C-sip-degree]

Any kind of farming is tough work, and little profit, I see that every day, and the bigger you make it, the more problem you get, if the profit was growing in the same rate as the problems, then it would be ok, but in most cases, thatt dosent happen, myself included

Tilapia.

Hey Tilapia

Right on, I'll drink to that.

Cheers

C-sip

[Tilapia]

Any kind of farming is tough work, and little profit, I see that every day, and the bigger you make it, the more problem you get, if the profit was growing in the same rate as the problems, then it would be ok, but in most cases, thatt dosent happen, myself included

Tilapia.

Hey Tilapia

Right on, I'll drink to that.

Cheers

C-sip

Hi C-sip.

You are most welcome have one on me.

BTW. Farming reminds me of a song "Sad but true"Made by Metalica.

Regards

Tilapia.

[Gary A]

I too was quite interested in eucalyptus trees. After talking to quite a few people who had experience with them I decided that there was NO way you could get rich. In fact most were lucky to clear 300 baht per rai per year. After several cuttings you are then looking at over 1000 baht per rai to take the stumps out. That alone takes a big chunk out of any profit.

[fred1234]

Fred,

Not that many per rai for us, @ 3meter square separation we got about 160 per rai and kept two meters off the fence line.

Hope this helps.

Regards

C-sip

C-sip,

Thanks for your clarification. Like I said, we're planting 350 per rai so that should translate to 7000 B (160 => 3200 . I'll have to wait 3 years to see if this pans out.

Best regards,

Fred.

[Joe Walshe]

Our neighbour in Chaiyaphum told us today that they have been offered 700,000 baht for 66rai of 3 y.o. eucalyptus. I don't know if there has been an error info. but that seems like a very good return. Joe

[Gary A]

Our neighbour in Chaiyaphum told us today that they have been offered 700,000 baht for 66rai of 3 y.o. eucalyptus. I don't know if there has been an error info. but that seems like a very good return. Joe

It sounds like that kind of money also includes the land. With one zero taken off, that's not too bad of an offer.

[Issangeorge]

If my calculations are right that works out to 10,606 per rai, that corresponds to what I have heard you get for eucalyptus, but after 4-5 years not 3. Issangeorge.

[ozzydom]

IMHO, the Thai penchant for short term profit is the reason returns from eucalypt are so low.

10-20 years cycle with millable timber being the aim would I am sure be an extremely profitable operation, dependant on the species ,eucs dont start to bulk up until several years old,till then they are saplings reaching for light.

The logging ban in Thailand has caused building grade timber prices to soar, 30,000 baht seems to be the average that villagers around here pay for a tree of about 30-36 inch diam. suitable for house framing.

I recently paid 5500 baht for 15 8x1 inch rough sawn planks to floor a 10x10 foot Casa near the fish ponds ,which appears more lucrative than 800baht a tonne offered by the pulpwood sharks.

Even pulpwood plantations in Oz are 20 year cycles.

I am in favour of plantation timber farming,but only on land unsuitable for foodstuff production. Before the anti eucalypt boys jump on me consider resource utilisation.

As for cleaning up stumps after harvest,there are bulldozers available all over Thailand to make short work of removal and the stumps are a valuable saleable commodity for furniture and charcoal manufacture.