New Phrase From The Other Day...

[johnnynmonic]

Hi all,

I DJ at a radio station up north. The station is called Witayu Baan Nook (sorry, I can't type Thai), as it is on the edge of town, sort of a clever name. I had the idea for my radio personna to be called "Farang Baan Nook" - but the first time I said the radio manager was practically on the floor laughing, then he had to go tell his wife too, and she got real kick out of it as well. So I get the obvious literal meaning of the words, but there must be some nuance that I am missing. Later on he told me(in very bad English - glad he wants to practice, but wish he would just use Thai so I could be certain) that this is "bad," and not to say it about myself. So when something or someone is "baan nook" how is that bad? What conotations does that carry? Thanks!

/first post

//not really. But first REAL post.

[patri]

I don't think it's that bad.... the word, "Ban Nok" is just like "red neck" in the US, which is opposite to "Farang" (rich and civilized guy in Thai's perspective) so, it's funny...

[meadish_sweetball]

I think it's catchy, but then again I am not Thai. As it's somewhat unexpected it's bound to make Thais laugh.

A German guy is currently quite popular in the role as the 'farang village idiot' in look thoong videos so I think it could work.

Your friend meant being 'baan nok' is not something to strive for, for Thais, it is akin to 'country bumpkin', 'old fashioned'...

'Redneck' basically means the same but to me sounds stronger and more offensive than 'baan nok'.

[mangkorn]

Are you sure it was pronounced properly, and didn't come out as "bird"? I've overheard a lot of farangs make that mistake, anyway.

[johnnynmonic]

THanks guys,

- it was pronounced correctly, I think the above is correct with comparing it to "redneck." But where I'm from (northwest US), "redneck" is usually used in a lighthearted way, and you could call yourself that easily. Here it seems to not be used that way. Or at least I am not "there" yet language wise to express it how I want.

Thanks again!

Johnny

[Tod Daniels]

I think the OP is referring to the phrase บ้านนอก.

In its noun form it is just a rural place, small village, a one horse town, etc. However when it is used as an adjective especially by (slightly) more educated big city people it has a negative or disparaging connotation. In context it can be meant quite disparagingly. I've heard it many times here in Bangkok when city dwellers refer to their more 'rural' cousins.

I would say in American English it is akin to red-neck, country bumpkin, or hick. Then again those words can all take on different meanings depending on the context and the tone they are spoken in.

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

[johnnynmonic]

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

Thanks Todd - I thought it was a good name too, but evidently I am the only one (outside of this forum!). Getting them laughing is what I had hoped for, the English equivalent would get a smile back home most likely. But if it is too strong, I might just have to scrap the idea. Like I said above, most likely not at the level of Thai speaking for slightly off color, non-face to face humor to come across the way I intend.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but now that you mention it, I don't believe I have heard people put themselves down in jest too often either.

Back to the drawing board...http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emotic...lt/rolleyes.gif

[CSS]

I think the OP is referring to the phrase บ้านนอก.

In its noun form it is just a rural place, small village, a one horse town, etc. However when it is used as an adjective especially by (slightly) more educated big city people it has a negative or disparaging connotation. In context it can be meant quite disparagingly. I've heard it many times here in Bangkok when city dwellers refer to their more 'rural' cousins.

I would say in American English it is akin to red-neck, country bumpkin, or hick. Then again those words can all take on different meanings depending on the context and the tone they are spoken in.

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

I'm sorry for replying to a side comment and not to the heart of the reply or directly on topic but I have found that Thai's are more self-deprecating. Whether in the classroom or the office I find myself constantly trying to get my students or staff to be more self-confident. Boasting to me seems more counter Thai culture than self-deprecation. For example one of our female staff members speaks excellent English but if you asked her she would say her English is horrible. I don't know how many times I've heard them say they can't do something when in fact they do it quite well.

Now I feel obligated to make a comment on topic. Previous posters have done a great job illustrating the meaning of ban nok and the irony of placing it with farang so I'll just cast a vote instead and say I too find it a good name for a radio host.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

Excellent point.

I have been told off by my Thai friends not to use self-deprecating humour. Not sure exactly how they perceive it, perhaps some Thai here could help explain why?

My hunch is that Thais believe one should show confidence in oneself and not put oneself down, whereas in Sweden it is important to NOT try to look too big, as that is considered boastful and annoying.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think the OP is referring to the phrase บ้านนอก.

In its noun form it is just a rural place, small village, a one horse town, etc. However when it is used as an adjective especially by (slightly) more educated big city people it has a negative or disparaging connotation. In context it can be meant quite disparagingly. I've heard it many times here in Bangkok when city dwellers refer to their more 'rural' cousins.

I would say in American English it is akin to red-neck, country bumpkin, or hick. Then again those words can all take on different meanings depending on the context and the tone they are spoken in.

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

I'm sorry for replying to a side comment and not to the heart of the reply or directly on topic but I have found that Thai's are more self-deprecating. Whether in the classroom or the office I find myself constantly trying to get my students or staff to be more self-confident. Boasting to me seems more counter Thai culture than self-deprecation. For example one of our female staff members speaks excellent English but if you asked her she would say her English is horrible. I don't know how many times I've heard them say they can't do something when in fact they do it quite well.

Now I feel obligated to make a comment on topic. Previous posters have done a great job illustrating the meaning of ban nok and the irony of placing it with farang so I'll just cast a vote instead and say I too find it a good name for a radio host.

It appears to me (right or wrong?) they are not being self-deprecating as a joke, which is what Westerners (at least Northern Europeans?) would do, but that they actually believe these things about themselves...?

Also, perhaps there is a difference in terms of how women and men are supposed to act? I get the impression Thai men are taught to always be confident (to the point where a Westerner might find it annoying) whereas women are taught to be bashful?

Just some personal impressions of mine.

[CSS]

I think the OP is referring to the phrase บ้านนอก.

In its noun form it is just a rural place, small village, a one horse town, etc. However when it is used as an adjective especially by (slightly) more educated big city people it has a negative or disparaging connotation. In context it can be meant quite disparagingly. I've heard it many times here in Bangkok when city dwellers refer to their more 'rural' cousins.

I would say in American English it is akin to red-neck, country bumpkin, or hick. Then again those words can all take on different meanings depending on the context and the tone they are spoken in.

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

I'm sorry for replying to a side comment and not to the heart of the reply or directly on topic but I have found that Thai's are more self-deprecating. Whether in the classroom or the office I find myself constantly trying to get my students or staff to be more self-confident. Boasting to me seems more counter Thai culture than self-deprecation. For example one of our female staff members speaks excellent English but if you asked her she would say her English is horrible. I don't know how many times I've heard them say they can't do something when in fact they do it quite well.

Now I feel obligated to make a comment on topic. Previous posters have done a great job illustrating the meaning of ban nok and the irony of placing it with farang so I'll just cast a vote instead and say I too find it a good name for a radio host.

It appears to me (right or wrong?) they are not being self-deprecating as a joke, which is what Westerners (at least Northern Europeans?) would do, but that they actually believe these things about themselves...?

Also, perhaps there is a difference in terms of how women and men are supposed to act? I get the impression Thai men are taught to always be confident (to the point where a Westerner might find it annoying) whereas women are taught to be bashful?

Just some personal impressions of mine.

Very true Meadish; there is a difference between how women and men are supposed to act. I noted that my example came from a female because that probably has something to do with it. However, Thai men seem to get disparaged too often on these forums so I didn't want to raise the issue directly.

It's also a good distinction you make between joking self-deprecation and self-deprecation for other reasons. In many of the instances where I've heard it, the feeling I get is that they are fishing for a compliment and thus speak poorly of themselves hoping that I'll correct them with a compliment. "No, actually I think your English is excellent." or whatever it was they were saying was deficient.

As I'm thinking about it I think joking self-deprecation doesn't work because it's too obvious. It's not subtle enough. You have to at least attempt sincerity for the self-deprecation to work here otherwise it comes off as boastful instead, if that makes sense.

Most of my contact has come with the lower classes where inferiority complexes and self-deprecation is probably more common. However, for joking self-deprecation they actually would have to be much more self-confident than they are(believing that what they say isn't true and is obvious enough that anyone listening would know they are joking). Whereas what I've heard is self-deprecation said being half believed and hoping that the listener would correct them and make them feel better. It's safer to shoot low I guess.

[longway]

sorry to keep adding to this off topic diversion, but its an interesting point.

to put is slightly differently, do thais like to laugh at themsleves? for me its hard to say as i dont know enough thai nor have a wide circle of thai friend and aquaintances. the ones i do know do enjoy a giggle at these sort of subjects. i went to aua for a while, the main attraction was that some of the teachers were quite funny and entertaining, often mocking themsleves and other in the class, in a nice way, but very thai.

outside this i find self depreciation quite common, but by no means universal or the same as in western society in thais that i meet. i think modesty is in general considered a virtue.

anybody else agree or disagree, or even care?

as for the topic i suppose you are calling yourslef foreign country bumpkin or perhaps worse in some quarters. maybe guy is just trying to help you stay on the safe side as there cannot be many farang radio djs around.

[Khon Baan Nok]

Well, considering that my moniker in this group is "Khon Baan Nok", I feel well qualified to comment on the topic of self-deprecating humor. In fact my car has a sticker on the back window that says, in Thai, exactly that, even using the now obsolete character. (Wave if you see a silver CRV....)

I normally get two reactions. First, Thai people find it highly amusing that a farang will refer to himself as "khon baan nok" because it does translate, as Meadish has observed, as "country bumpkin". In general Thai people seem more uncomfortable with that imagery than North Americans (like me). Therefore the second reaction, from the same people, is that it does in fact diminish my perceived prestige in their eyes. Kind of like, well, if you choose to make fun of yourself, then perhaps you deserve to be made fun of.

I find (experience limited to 1.5 years) that Thai people have great senses of humor, and love word play, though they are generally not inclined to use themselves as the butt of their own humor. I am the opposite, and am comfortable enough with myself and my place in life to "pay the price" for the use of a modality of humor that doesn't quite work the same here as it does where I come from.

Therefore, from my experience, if you are prepared to deal with the shrinkage of the pedestal you stand on...it is innocuous, and would probably not be offensive to any Thai (though they would not for the life of themselves understand why the hel_l anyone would refer to themselves that way....)

[longway]

thx for that KBN I think you have got it about right.

For the Khon/Franag Baan Nork tag there must be more negative conotations than one would expect.

[Khon Baan Nok]

thx for that KBN I think you have got it about right.

For the Khon/Franag Baan Nork tag there must be more negative conotations than one would expect.

Not really, just use it to describe yourself, not someone else...