Help: Visa To Netherlands For Thai/uk Couple?

[hamish]

Hi,

I'd like to ask for some advice about a visa situation that I suppose is a little more complicated than usual.

I am a UK national who has just been offered a position in Amsterdam with a Dutch IT company.

My Thai partner and I have been together for almost 2 years, and were colleagues at a Thai university before this. We have evidence of a relationship extending back until 2004.

In 2005, she came to the UK to study and spent virtually all of that time living with my family and I.

Her UK student visa expired in January of this year, and she returned to Thailand. She then applied for a tourist visa in order to come and see me again in the UK. This was refused on the grounds that she hadn't been sufficiently clear as to the nature of our relationship, and hadn't demonstrated a reason to return to Thailand. Additionally, although she is performing some freelance translation work, she doesn't have a permanent employer -- nor does she own property.

We'd like to be together permanently in the Netherlands as soon as possible. What we're unsure about is the best way in which to accomplish this. Which type of visa would best suit us? This all seemed difficult enough when I was based in the UK!

Ideally, she'd like to work in the Netherlands. Any good job resources for non-EU citizens?

Many thanks for any advice anyone can offer.

Hamish

[the scouser]

Hamish,

First of all you should establish whether the Dutch authorities recognise unmarried partnerships: my instinctive belief is that they do. On the assumption that they do, and your relationship is defined in Dutch law as such, your partner may apply for permission to enter the Netherlands as your family member. There is no fee for such an application. Your partner will have to establish that you are a EEA national who is to start work in the Netherlands, and that you have been in an unmarried partnership for at least the length of time prescribed by Dutch law. Upon arrival in the Netherlands, she will have to register with the Dutch authorities who will then issue her with a residence card and she will be able to work.

Having lawfully lived together in the Netherlands, if you then decided to permanently relocate to the UK, your partner would be able to then apply for a free family permit for the U.K.

Scouse.

[hamish]

Thanks for that, Scouse. I appreciate it.

Do you happen to know what the feasibility would be of my girlfriend coming to the Netherlands with me on a tourist visa, and then changing this to a more permanent arrangement (an MVV) whilst in the Netherlands?

By the way, whereabouts in Liverpool are you from? I'm from Wallasey.

Cheers,

Hamish

[the scouser]

Hamish,

If you don't wish your girlfriend to apply for a Dutch visa under European law, but, rather, under Dutch law, I'm afraid I can't really be of assistance.

You can obtain general guidance from the Dutch IND website.

Scouse.

[LaoPo]

Hamish,

First of all you should establish whether the Dutch authorities recognise unmarried partnerships: my instinctive belief is that they do. On the assumption that they do, and your relationship is defined in Dutch law as such, your partner may apply for permission to enter the Netherlands as your family member. There is no fee for such an application. Your partner will have to establish that you are a EEA national who is to start work in the Netherlands, and that you have been in an unmarried partnership for at least the length of time prescribed by Dutch law. Upon arrival in the Netherlands, she will have to register with the Dutch authorities who will then issue her with a residence card and she will be able to work.

Having lawfully lived together in the Netherlands, if you then decided to permanently relocate to the UK, your partner would be able to then apply for a free family permit for the U.K.

Scouse.

I agree.

I strongly suggest Hamish to find legal advise from a specialist Immigration Lawyers Firm in Amsterdam I know of. They are very good although I never used them myself.

http://www.everaert.nl/

Immigration Lawyers.

There are, of course, more specialized Lawyers but this is a Firm I know of via friends.

If you need a name I could ask. In that case PM me if you wish.

The IND website could be very helpful although the IND itself is an organization with the most complaints of any Dutch Government Ministry....it is a nightmare!

Good luck!

LaoPo

[paully]

This might be a bit tricky:

"Civic integration examination abroad

The civic integration examination abroad

The civic integration examination abroad is an examination that must be completed in the country where the person is currently residing (previous, thus to his/her coming to the Netherlands). The civic integration examination abroad is held orally in Dutch. It tests the person’s fundamental knowledge of the Dutch language and Dutch society. The civic integration examination abroad is held at a Dutch embassy or consulate general in the foreign national’s country of residence"

Blimey, so you have to speak Dutch well before you can go and live in Holland.

However, you may be able to apply for an exemption to the exam for her, although it seems that this has to be formally approved by the IND in Holland.

[LaoPo]

This might be a bit tricky:

"Civic integration examination abroad

The civic integration examination abroad

The civic integration examination abroad is an examination that must be completed in the country where the person is currently residing (previous, thus to his/her coming to the Netherlands). The civic integration examination abroad is held orally in Dutch. It tests the person’s fundamental knowledge of the Dutch language and Dutch society. The civic integration examination abroad is held at a Dutch embassy or consulate general in the foreign national’s country of residence"

Blimey, so you have to speak Dutch well before you can go and live in Holland.

True and I forgot about that new law. The examination in the Dutch language is however not that difficult and most applicants pass the 1st test which is held on Embassies/Consulate General, worldwide.

But Hamish doesn't have to learn the language; he's a UK citizen. It's only implemented for "outside EU/Western countries'" partners. The definition 'Western is a bit odd, since Japan is also considered as a Western country, like a few more.

That's why it's important for Hamish to seek professional help, if he wishes to accept the new IT job.

There might be a loophole for him, but I'm not sure about that.

There is special law which says that 'needed' (also IT) people+spouses can enter the country without all the laws; they should earn a substantial salary though.

LaoPo

[the scouser]

But he can avoid all the hassle simply by presenting his girlfriend as his unmarried partner and demonstrating the length of their relationship. That way, she'll be classed as the family member of an EEA national and not have to undergo any of the language tests.

Scouse.

[erikr_]

This might be a bit tricky:

"Civic integration examination abroad

The civic integration examination abroad

The civic integration examination abroad is an examination that must be completed in the country where the person is currently residing (previous, thus to his/her coming to the Netherlands). The civic integration examination abroad is held orally in Dutch. It tests the person’s fundamental knowledge of the Dutch language and Dutch society. The civic integration examination abroad is held at a Dutch embassy or consulate general in the foreign national’s country of residence"

Blimey, so you have to speak Dutch well before you can go and live in Holland.

However, you may be able to apply for an exemption to the exam for her, although it seems that this has to be formally approved by the IND in Holland.

going from vv to mvv is almost impossible. EEA route is the way to go if you can establish being partners. however you living in the UK and her in Thailand does not real support that statement

[hamish]

Thanks for all of the replies.

As I've been invited to the Netherlands by a Dutch company, I think the situation for me, at least, is pretty straightforward: No Civic Integration exams, etc.

With regard to my partner's situation, we're really looking to take the path of least resistance, so the EEA route is certainly looking like our preferred option.

To that end, how do we go about initiating an application? How long will the process likely take? What documentation will we need to provide?

Anyone like to share their experiences of this? I'd like to hear of any of the potential pitfalls awaiting us.

Many thanks,

Hamish

[LaoPo]

Thanks for all of the replies.

As I've been invited to the Netherlands by a Dutch company, I think the situation for me, at least, is pretty straightforward: No Civic Integration exams, etc.

With regard to my partner's situation, we're really looking to take the path of least resistance, so the EEA route is certainly looking like our preferred option.

To that end, how do we go about initiating an application? How long will the process likely take? What documentation will we need to provide?

Anyone like to share their experiences of this? I'd like to hear of any of the potential pitfalls awaiting us.

Many thanks,

Hamish

Why don't you point that company to the Lawyers in post #4 and let them handle your situation ? They want you, so they should help you. It's a time-consuming and stressy thing to handle yourself....

LaoPo

[the scouser]

You will need to establish for how long under Dutch law you need to have lived together for you to be construed as unmarried partners. Providing that you have been together for the required period, you can then make an application to the Dutch embassy in Bangkok and supply the evidence of your nationality, work, and time living together.

Scouse.

[hamish]

Here is an update on our situation.

My partner, Pueng, has been in touch with the Dutch Embassy in BKK. Here is a summary of the advice she was given by a (very friendly) lady there .

Pueng must apply here in Thailand for a short-term (7 day Schengen) visa, costing 2740 THB. This will allow her to travel to the Netherlands. Once she arrives, she must contact the authorities there and get a residence card that will allow her to stay longer.

All that's required for this is for us to provide the following:

* My bank statements for the previous 3 months

* A copy of my passport

* A copy of my employment contract

* A letter from me, inviting Pueng to stay.

* Confirmation from her municipality that Pueng is unmarried <== It was unclear as to whether this was necessary.

This all seems too easy! No evidence of our relationship was asked for. The advisor didn't know what Pueng was on about when she mentioned the EEA route.

A few questions:

1) Does this seem correct?

2) Has the advisor omitted anything crucial here e.g. Pueng's bank statement's?

3) How much will it cost when we go to the Dutch authorities to ask for the residence card?

4) Will getting the residence card in the Netherlands be a formality? Naturally, we could do without Pueng having to fly home after 7 days!

As always, many thanks for the fantastic advice!

Cheers,

Hamish

[the scouser]

Hamish,

The lady at the Dutch embassy may have been friendly, but the advice isn't necessarily correct.

On the assumption that you are confident of being able to establish that you and your girlfriend are unmarried partners, the following legislation may be of assistance.

Have a look at the European Council Directive 2004/38/EC and in particular Articles 5(2) which states that family members of EEA nationals (in this case, you) should have visas issued free of charge, and 3(2) which states that unmarried partners can be considered to be family members.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

You might also choose to give the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs a call, or have a look at the Dutch IND website.

The Min of Foreign Affairs is responsible for issuing visas, so they're probably your best port of call. If you telephone them don't ask whether your partner can apply for a free visa, but, rather, say that you know she can, but the Dutch embassy in Bangkok appears to be obstructing this.

Scouse.

Edit// Alternatively, get someone else to do the running round for you, and contact the firm of Dutch immigration lawyers which Lao Po mentioned. Coincidentally, I had cause to speak to the same firm in relation to one of my clients, and was impressed by their efficiency. I spoke to Sander Groen who charges E145.00 per hour plus VAT and office costs.

[LaoPo]

You might also choose to give the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs a call, or have a look at the Dutch IND website.

The Min of Foreign Affairs is responsible for issuing visas, so they're probably your best port of call. If you telephone them don't ask whether your partner can apply for a free visa, but, rather, say that you know she can, but the Dutch embassy in Bangkok appears to be obstructing this.

Scouse.

Edit// Alternatively, get someone else to do the running round for you, and contact the firm of Dutch immigration lawyers which Lao Po mentioned. Coincidentally, I had cause to speak to the same firm in relation to one of my clients, and was impressed by their efficiency. I spoke to Sander Groen who charges E145.00 per hour plus VAT and office costs.

I agree with your comments and previous ones.

It is highly unlikely what the Lady at the Embassy said, meaning: it's unlikely to ask for a 7 day visa and have it turned around for a Residence Card upon arrival in Holland....

I also agree on your remark about contacting the Dutch Immigration Lawyers.

Again: the company that hires Hamish should help him.

Hamish shouldn't do it by himself; it's a bear pit...

LaoPo

[Khun Jean]

I can offer my experience because that is what i did. Only i 'used' different countries.

As it is very difficult or almost impossible to get a residency card for your OWN country.

I am from the Netherlands and i used the European family visa law in Austria.

My wife arrived on a normal schengen tourist visa, and afterward we went to Austria.

I had to rent a house, show that i had an income and that i have health insurance.

It then took 1 day!!! to get it arranged.

This is the process 'the scouser' posted about.

For you it is even easier as you already have a job in The Netherlands and i suppose some housing is arranged. You have your housing, income and insurance covered!

It is VERY straight forward and VERY simple compared to national visa laws.

I am married so that makes it even more easy. But living together for a few years is recognized by the Dutch government as a partnership, which gives you the same rights as being maried. Proving it will be the challenge.

Be prepared (read the european law and make copies) that most people working at immigration don't know anything about immigration laws and you will be fine.

You can find more experiences and stories on www.buitenlandsepartner.nl. They have an English language section.

Have a nice time in the Netherlands WITH your wife, be sure of that because it is your European right!

[hamish]

Scouse: Thanks for all of your replies. Those links were really handy, too.

LaoPo: You're right -- I should get my company to handle this; I could certainly do without the hassle. I'm just not comfortable about asking them before I've even started there yet. They've got their hands full sorting out my accomodation etc.! I'd also like to let that Dutch law firm handle this, but money is tight and we'd like to save as much as possible for a place in Amsterdam. That means doing as much as posible ourselves.

Khun Jean: Thanks for your post, and that link. Very interesting!

Hamish

[giruz]

Scouse: Thanks for all of your replies. Those links were really handy, too.

LaoPo: You're right -- I should get my company to handle this; I could certainly do without the hassle. I'm just not comfortable about asking them before I've even started there yet. They've got their hands full sorting out my accomodation etc.! I'd also like to let that Dutch law firm handle this, but money is tight and we'd like to save as much as possible for a place in Amsterdam. That means doing as much as posible ourselves.

Khun Jean: Thanks for your post, and that link. Very interesting!

Hamish

I had a look for the Netherlands before applying for a UK EEA family permit as unmarried partner.

If I remember correctly, they asked for accommodation, proof of income and health insurance. However, the main issue was having a job with at least a year contract before applying for the EEA visa.

Try to call the embassy and ask....

bye

g.