Philippines Versus Thailand. Trip Report

[KenUdon]

Back in January, some of you may remember that I decided to have a serious look at the Philippines to see if it offered an alternative to retirement in Thailand. Well, I did say I would do a full report when I got back, but have decided to write a "brief" synopsis of my conclusions instead.

For those of you interested in retiring in Pi, it is easy to do. Visas are not a problem, but expensive and ....weird. 21day visa on arrival is then extended every 2 months by a quick visit to Immigration. No documents except passport are required. No questions asked, just "give us the money" Cost varies...yes varies but averages approx, 2000baht a time....ouch! This includes the "express lane " fee which is compulsory! When you have been there a year, you must leave the country for 1 day and can then return and start again.

So, in conclusion to this, much more expensive than my retirement visa in Thailand.

Doesnt appear to be any retirement visa there, and certainly no requirement to deposit monies in a Pi bank. There is a 13a visa for people married to Filipinos, but dont know much about this as I am not.

Costs. Generally, living costs are probably a bit cheaper than Thailand, with one or two exceptions. Household utilities are pretty cheap. I rented a 3bed 2 bath house in a compound with cable tv and phone for 5000baht/month. The electric (no air-con) was 550baht/month and the water bill 75baht/month. Landline rental 150baht, but all local calls, and internet calls are free.

Food is pretty bland by Thai standards, but also cheap. Eating out a bit less than Thai also. Filipinos are not big on eating vegetables but curiously there is a lot of variety if you want.

Transport. Public "Jeepneys" Pedicabs, are cheap to ride (3baht) most trips. Taxis also- flag-fall 17/18 baht. Buses everywhere, but pretty dangerous.

Driving. Well, Having adjusted to Thailand driving after many years in Uk, I was totally un-prepared for the lunacy of Pi. Words can not describe the insanity there, and I certainly can't begin to give you any idea of what it is like, except to say that traffic laws (if they exist) are totally disregarded. Bigger wins, and pedestrians have NO rights whatsoever. I was standing outside a hotel (on the pavement) when I could see a taxi heading my way obviously coming to pick up someone from the hotel. He kept coming, and eventually literally hit me, and pushed me out of the way. Why didnt I move? I just couldnt believe that he was going to do it. I was after all on the pavement. When I tackled him about it, he just said, "well, you should have seen me coming!!" and walked away. That about sums up the attitude.

Infrastructure. Philippines is slowly dragging itself from a 3rd world country into a 4th world country. The total corruption which you find in ANY dealing with officialdom makes Thailand look almost "corruption free" This shows in the state of the roads, pavements, buildings, electricity supply, water supply, and everything else that requires public money. The money is just not reaching the places where it is desperately needed, and it shows. A small amount of repair work was carried out on some roads recently, all of these carrying signs saying that the money for this works was "another" project personally donated by the incumbent party and president.....Nothing to do with the elections which have just taken place of course. When talking to the local people, no works had been done since the last election, and nothing was likely to be done until the next!!

In short, the place is falling apart at the seams, and the chances of it improving are slight. Can't think of any reason why they should.

The People. The good and the bad here. On meeting up with many ex-pats there, the feeling that came out is that the Philippine people are "the most disrespectful people on this earth" It does actually show in their behaviour, both on the road and in everyday life. Hate to say it, but the Thais are nothing like as bad. The only redeeming feature of Filipinos appeared to be that I did not experience ANY anti-farang feeling at all. If you have a white face, you are automatically labelled a "kano" (Ameri-Kano) but it was always quite friendly. In fact, I found that I was treated much better than the locals in many instances. Generally, foreigners are looked upon with curiosity, but I never felt there was a problem being in their country.

It was also quite nice to know that so many people understood, and mostly spoke english also.

Shopping. Strange topic I know, but until you have experienced trying to buy something in Pi, you havn't lived. You can buy most things that you need in Pi, but it does take some searching for. There are no Tesco/Lotus, Big C, or Carrefour there, and outside of the biggest cities, very little in the way of department stores. In Cebu and Manilla and probably other cities too, there are very large American style shopping malls, which really are superb. Everything under one roof. You do have to be careful that things like electronic good and computers are not old stock, or out of date, but plenty of choice there.

It is in the attitude of the sales staff that I was most amazed. Even compared to Thailand, the idea of customer service just doesnt exist. To ask for anything even slightly out of the ordinary gets what the expats there call the "deer in the headlights" look. Totally disinterested in serving you really, but to ask them to look for something is a step too far. Incredibly, some of the stores close for lunch from 12-2.30pm. BUT, they close the doors at 11.40am, to make sure everybody is out in time!! The first time I came across this, I was in a Big store with a basket half full of things, when all the lights went out. It was 11.45, and apparently the staff had neem waiting for us to leave for the last 5 minutes, and as we hadnt made any move, decided to give us a hint. Not being able to see anything in the dark, we just dumped the basket and made to leave. Not easy!! They had already shut the grills on the main entrance door, and so we had to leave via the staff entrance at the back. This is by no means the only time this happened at this and other stores. I could go on with many other instances of total disinterest in customer satisfaction, but this is turning into the epic I didnt want it to.

In conclusion. Philippines is total insanity by western standards, and even by Thai standards, is a difficult place to live with. Dr PP and I have had a few differences of opinion about Thailand before, but I have to say that Thailand has many things which are a lot better than Philippines. That does not excuse Thailand in any way for its many faults, or make it the paradise that the "rose coloured specs" brigade would have us all believe. It does however show, that Thailand has an awful lot going for it when compared to other alternatives, and certainly has the potential to become a great place to live............. unless the anti farang feeling gathers even more pace of course!!

[HinHam]

Hey

excelent and most informative post.

Few Questions Phili to Thailand.

How does the weather compare

Analysis of the Ex-Pat community

How secure did you feel

Do you feel that this is a worthwhile option

[Yohan]

Doesnt appear to be any retirement visa there, and certainly no requirement to deposit monies in a Pi bank. 

http://www.gov.ph/faqs/retirement.asp

Philippines has a retirement visa.

Checking out Philippines and Thailand for retirement, there are some pro and contra for each nation, but as a whole I found Thailand the best value for your money....

'Living in the Philippines is terrible' - not my own words, our Filipina maid in the office says that.

Girls, nightlife and swimming/diving - I found it really nice in the Philippines, better than in Thailand. Beside that and easy visa-regulations, there is not much however, which can be called better compared to Thailand.

Considering long-term stay, Thailand is a good choice, if you stay where many foreigners are living already...... low living costs, not bad about security, generally all is functioning, like electricity, garbage service, public transport, medical care, good selection of Western food...

[Nam Kao]

Nice summary Ken,

My company in the US has plants in Pi and Thai,

People beg to get to go to Thai

When someone makes a big mistake - they are sent to to Pi as punishment

Generally speaking the Pi girls are already westernized like the lady falangs

at home. When you marry one they will pester you day and night to move their

whole family back to your home country. As soon as you put a ring on em they put on

40 lbs. Add another 20 after the 1st kid and 10 for every thereafter.

[phazey]

Nice piece.

What i found shocking when i was in Manila, were the firearms. Two guards packing shottys on each door of the local filling station - <deleted> is that all about :|

Even the local i was attached to had a weapon in his car - i found it a scary place.

food was rank - well it was if it never came with fries and a diet coke..

I did find the obsession with sms a laugh tho - few of the evening places/nightspots had loads of people fingering away at their phones...

[Phil Conners]

I understand Pi was very similar to Thailand up to around 10 years ago when they did the same thing that the current Thai government is doing to Thailand now (their best trying to get rid of the foreigners).

Would it be too much to suggest this may look like Thailand in 10 years time, assuming things continue on the current track?

[stroll]

Anong sabi mo?

What you are reporting is mostly also my experience, KenUdon. To be fair, it does get easier in the long run, as you learn your way around and avoid situations which will leave you frustated and fed up. I found that Pilipinos are very adaptable, so if you are a regular customer they will make an effort to accomodate your expectations.

I lived there for 2 years, and despite the widespread English speaking and a superficial similarity to Western/American culture, it is a long way from what we are used to in mentality and standards.

[stroll]

I understand Pi was very similar to Thailand up to around 10 years ago when they did the same thing that the current Thai government is doing to Thailand now (their best trying to get rid of the foreigners).

I don't think they tried to get rid of foreigners, but they did boot out the Us military, or rather didn't renew contracts for the US bases in the country.

At around the same time, early '90s, the mayor of Manila (the district, not Metropolitan Manila) closed all the go-go bars and imposed a ban on prostitution in the town center. This was followed by tightening laws on 'immorality' and nationwide banning of nud_e dancing on stage, and crackdowns in entertainment districts, focussing on where the tourists go.

[Phil Conners]

Except for the military bit, isn't that pretty much the same as is happening here now?

[Roger13]

Ken,

Very Interesting.

Where was the house you rented?

You didn't mention the places you looked at ...

Did you go to Cebu?

Thanks

Roger

[Thaiquila]

I was in the Phillipines on a much shorter trip, mostly on Cebu Island.

My impressions are similar to the posters. It is a much lower quality choice for most retirees.

However, the three big positives are undeniable.

It is apparantly possible to stay indefinitely on tourist visa extensions as long as you leave the islands once a year.

English speaking is more widespread and of a much better level than Thailand.

Most seem to love westerners, especially Americans.

I see the PI as an alternative for lower budgeted people who are thrown out of Thailand or can't keep up their visas, and still wish to stay in Asia.

I wish it was better there and I do have affection for Philipino people.

[stroll]

Few Questions Phili to Thailand.

How does the weather compare

Analysis of the Ex-Pat community

How secure did you feel

Do you feel that this is a worthwhile option

I can chip in here abit more:

Weather is similar to Thailand, tropical and there are also climatic zones affected by the different monsuns. But the country is haunted by frequent strong storms which make everything come to a halt for several days at a time. Earthquakes are another regular occurence, didn't bother me much though.

Security is a personal attitude, once you get used to the armed security guards all over the place. Personally I believe chances of being kidnapped or held hostage are very slim, but one needs to be far more alert as far as armed robbery or random violence is concerned, than in Thailand.

Ex-pat community similar mix as in Thailand, but with an Aussie bias. Not always university educated model citizens, but also sizable numbers of expats employed by international companies and retirees. Easier to get to know, there are far less tourists so contact with other likeminded folk who live there is more appreciated.

I should add that I have the impression that many issues already mentioned, don't seem to get any better inspite of financial assistance and a lot of talking by subsequent administrations, the word is that paper is very patient regarding what is written on it.....

[KenUdon]

I realise there are a lot of issues that I didnt cover, but thought maybe people would be bored with reading more.

Always happy to expand on it though.

To answer some of the questions so far (some have been answered by others.)

To Roger13. Stayed in Cebu for about 2 months. City about the size of Chiang Mai. Very polluted, noisy and bad traffic. Nightlife ok and good malls. Quite a rip-off culture there being a city. Too busy for me. I rented in Dumaguete on Negros Oriental, Quiet "city" very limited facilities, but nice seafront boulevard, and friendly people. The best place I found despite its limitations.

The armed guards bit certainly is a shock when you first get there, but it seems that the idea is mostly to provide some jobs for people who dont have any. I'm sure that they may be a deterrent for some situations, but have to say I never had any problems, or felt in danger at all. Same as Thailand, just use your head is the best strategy. Quite disturbing though to sit in McDonalds and have an armed guard clear your table....lol

[Roger13]

Hi Ken,

I really planned to do what you did

but didn't get round to it yet!

So I find your Trip VERY Interesting

Some more Qs !! OK?

How long were you in Dumaguette?

you say it was the best place that you found

- but where else did you go?

Did you go to Manilla?

Did you rent in Cebu?

Can you give some idea of Rent there?

Is it over-run by Americans?

Did you travel the Large Ferries

between Manilla & for example Cebu.

Any info / views on Cinemas

are the in the Malls with several

theatres or Stand alone.

Can you say if there are Restaurants

similar to Black Canyon, 13 Coins,

S & P Restaurants in Thailand?

Did you fly from Bangkok?

to where? Cebu direct?

Any advice on Airlines / Routes?

Thanks so much

Roger

[Pepe']

Just thought I'd throw in. I used to get shore leave in Olongapo, Subic Bay back in71-72.

We called it Dodge City. Dirt streets wooden side walks and swingin'doors on the bars.

It was wild, wild, wild, Every red blooded American 19 year old boys dream.

Haven't been the same since

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Welcome back Ken Thank you for your well crafted and informative report on the Philippines.

[Tornado]

Thanks for this post Ken, I enjoyed it. I wonder if anyone has a similiar experience for Indonesia?

[royar2002]

We don't have to worry if Thaksin kick us out!

[KenUdon]

Thanks to all for the kind comments.

To Roger13.

Stayed in Dumagete about 4 months. Yes it was the best place FOR ME. because I like the sea and beaches, but like to be near internet and civilisation also. I also went to Manilla (ughh) Cebu, (smaller version of Manilla) Tagbilaran on Bohol, Siquijor, and many other places just to pass through. Bear in mind that Pi has over 7000 islands so couldnt get round them all. There are probably many places much better than the ones that I found.....maybe, but just couldnt live out of a suitcase any longer.

Generally, there are a lot more Americans there. It is very easy to get to Pi from US, but difficult to find a flight from UK, so Americans are the majority of expats. Maybe also to do with past history, airbases etc.

Rent in Cebu is a bit more expensive then where I was, but not as much as manilla. Probably about 7k for the same sort of house there.

The cinemas are up to Uk/US standards..multiplex 5 or 6 screen in the malls. Dumaguete has one!!

The Superferries run between many of the islands, but there are many other types of ferry too. Supercat, pump boats, and assorted craft will take you anywhere you want to go...at your own risk, and believe me, some of them look very risky.

There are many restaurants in most places. KFC McD. and other chains too. The big one called "Jollibee" is an exact copy of McD. but absolutely dreadful both in service and food. The Filipinos LOVE it!!

Getting there, is easy from Bangkok. Philippine Airlines direct about 3.1/2 hours to Manilla. Nothing direct to Cebu except go to Hongkong first. Manilla-Cebu about an hour. Manilla- Dumaguete 1.1/2 hours. Cebu now has a couple of long haul flights land there now. I THINK Kuwait, and Cathay Pacific, from Hong Kong, but very expensive.I found it better to go to Manilla and get a flight to Cebu or other island.

[duke69]

lol

[organic]

What about work permits (or equivalent) there?

As for the food, yep it's terrible, while I've tried all sorts in Thailand nothing would ever get me to eat balut.

[stroll]

It is worth mentioning for those considering to set up a small import/export or manufacturing business, that there is a lot of red tape regarding this, if you want to transact in a fully legal sort of way. The legalities are far from clear, and several government agencys appear to 'compete' with each other for being the authority in granting permits etc. The concept of temporary import for processing and re-export is virtually unknown outside the designated 'export zones', such as Clark where foreigners may run businesses with minimum restrictions.

Custom duties are based on the estimated value of goods in the Philippines, so forget any invoices you may have collected for tax relief.

[duke69]

Philippines has the following pros (missing in Thailand):

1) almost everyone speaks a very good english

2) good girls are much more family oriented (chatolic)

3) much easier to translate laws and documents and most of them also in English

4) business opportunities since it's still 4th world country

.... 5) farang friendly

;; ..... 6) bar girls much better, different kinds, even if more expensive

.... but Thailand is much better

[cathyy]

I was quite interested in reading the report on the PI. I had considered the PI rather than Thailand as my potential retirement place. I t has advantages particularly for an American: English speakers, love of Americans, 120v/60hz electricity (nominally, anyway), NTSC TV signal, great exchange rates. It was 30 pesos per dollar then, 50 pesos now.

What decided me was the poor infrastructure. Back when I lived there, 83-87, Angeles City, gated compound, the water and electricity would simply quit working. The electricity went out most hot days about 3pm and stayed out until about 7. The water went out irregularly, but would be out for days at a time. We kept a 20 gallon trash can in every shower in the house. It was always full, refilled every time we showered. That water was used for bathing and flushing the toilets during the outages.

I never suspected that it might have improved since then. I knew better.

And about the US bases...the leases were not renewed on some, not all, of the bases (particularly Clark AB) due to the enormous damage from the eruption of Mount Pinatubo. The US was downsizing the military at the time, closing many bases within the US as well. There is still a US presence in the PI, it's just much smaller.

[possom]

interesting thread ken , doesnt sound like my sort of place . from what i can gather there isnt much culture (other than american )allthough i am open to be corected . the food doesnt sound too good (from a friend who visited a while back )i like the idea of plenty of beaches and islansd though , and easy visa regs . swings and roundabouts i suppose .. thanks for the thread ken

[TizMe]

allthough i am open to be corected

The corect way to spell corect is correct

[sendbaht]

Wonderful report.

I devided my free time between the both. Love both places.

Thanks again!

[Kronberg]

phillippino girls are ugly compared to Thai girls...

[Bluecat]

Nice report.

Just want to add my 5 Baht on the question.

I lived in a few countries.

And I loved them all.

All of them had advantages and disadvantages.

Just making the best of the advantages.

In all of them.

From Europe to Africa to Asia.

I do not say I do not like some better than others.

But this is very, very subjective.

Usually, the last one (after more than 3 years, not 6 months) is the best one.

Men are creatures of habit,...

[SeaVisionBurma]

There are many restaurants in most places. KFC McD. and other chains too. The big one called "Jollibee" is an exact copy of McD. but absolutely dreadful both in service and food. The Filipinos LOVE it!!

Have to say that I could never quite understand the Filipino obsession with Jollibee - it really seems to yank their chain. I thought it was one of the worst fast food chains I'd ever tried.

Palawan is a nice province to visit, although has probably started to increase in popularity (very quiet before).

Traffic in Manila is insane!! Driving along EDSA through to Makati is unbelievable!