Landlord issues and agency issues

[PattayaKevin]

I rented a pool villa recently under a 1 year contract through an agency.  Landlord is violating breaching every section of the contract. Contract says mediation is required for breaches. Agency and landlord says no need and are refusing mediation.  Landlord is liable for maintenance and repairs except for small things. He did the repairs but charged me for them. Repairs were done bad and had to be done again by the same guy. I got charged again.  I paid my second month rent, then he says he wants more.  I refused he threatens me with eviction. From my knowledge eviction needs to be done legally through the courts here in Thailand.  If I'm paying the rent as required and have receipts he would have no grounds to evict me. I contacted a lawyer who wants 130,000 baht to initiate a lawsuit against the agency and landlord.

 

Can I go after legal criminal charges against them like fraud by inducement since I signed the contract because it had clauses that were meant to prevent this situation? I live in a development with a housing association and security who do their jobs. I have heard if the landlord forces his way onto the property I can have him arrested for criminal trespassing. Security and association knows of all my problems and the landlord says he doesn't care about them. Association has been fining him and he hasn't been paying for different violations. I found out before I moved in he was renting it out daily as an airbnb against the association rules.

 

What else can I do about this. My family will be here without me for the next 6 weeks because I need to fly out of country half way around the world. 

[CharlieKo]

Find another lawyer! If your wife is Thai then get her to use the legal system to fight the Landlord and agent.

Edited August 31, 2023 by CharlieKo

[FritsSikkink]

You shouldn't pay these bills. If you did and have a receipt, deduct them from the next rent and give the landlord a copy of the receipt/bill. If he threatens to evict, tell him he can start a legal procedure and you will inform the tax office of his earnings OR he will behave normally and you won't make a problem too.

Edited August 31, 2023 by FritsSikkink

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, CharlieKo said:

Find another lawyer! If your wife is Thai then get her to use the legal system to fight the Landlord and agent.

No lawyer needed at this stage, waist of money.

[PattayaKevin]

I have reported her to the thai revenue department already. Probably the reason for demanding more money from me today. Both the agency and the landlord are trying to scam me all the time since I signed the contract.  Another issue is one of the agent has direct ties with the police.  She brought them along but they waited outside my gate while they were talking to me about the contract issues.  

I've told both the agency and landlord they are not welcome on the property as long as I'm paying the rent. I said any inspections must be made by appointment. 

[PattayaKevin]

The landlord is the one who is sending the bills to the agency who is sending them to me. Also my landlord wasn't paying the electricity or water and they came to shut both off for nonpayment right after I moved in. The agency wound up paying the bills since it was for the time before I moved in. 

[HandsomeTallFarang]

Just throw a Molotov cocktail in the living room when it's time to move. Or thoroughly trash the place. Landlord sounds like an absolute PoS 

[PattayaKevin]

I don't expect I will ever see my deposit again so that would be a good idea but as I said the agency has direct ties with the police so if I did that I bet I'd be put into thai prison.

[Jeff the Chef]

Name of the Agency would be helpful so others can avoid, and no-way would I be paying for any maintenance if it is not as per contract.

Time to look for somewhere else to live before the next months rent is due, methinks.

[impulse]

12 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Name of the Agency would be helpful so others can avoid, and no-way would I be paying for any maintenance if it is not as per contract.

Time to look for somewhere else to live before the next months rent is due, methinks.

You'll find very few name and shame posts here because telling the truth is not a defense in Thailand against a defamation lawsuit/ criminal trial.  If you publish anything that harms their reputation, they can sue you.  And win, even if what you said was true.  Perhaps even have you arrested.  They also have the home court advantage.

Edited August 31, 2023 by impulse

[PattayaKevin]

Can't name them due to defamation laws it is in the pattaya area though. 

[PattayaKevin]

If i break the contract they want the entire contract paid.  Found out the last guy a Chinese guy broke his contract and apparently paid for the year after only about 2 weeks here so its a scam basically that they are running to try and get as much money as possible.  The house appeared perfect at the showing, wasn't that old, didn't expect any issues. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by PattayaKevin
Added information

[TimeMachine]

19 hours ago, PattayaKevin said:

I rented a pool villa recently under a 1 year contract through an agency.  Landlord is violating breaching every section of the contract. Contract says mediation is required for breaches. Agency and landlord says no need and are refusing mediation.  Landlord is liable for maintenance and repairs except for small things. He did the repairs but charged me for them. Repairs were done bad and had to be done again by the same guy. I got charged again.  I paid my second month rent, then he says he wants more.  I refused he threatens me with eviction. From my knowledge eviction needs to be done legally through the courts here in Thailand.  If I'm paying the rent as required and have receipts he would have no grounds to evict me. I contacted a lawyer who wants 130,000 baht to initiate a lawsuit against the agency and landlord.

 

Can I go after legal criminal charges against them like fraud by inducement since I signed the contract because it had clauses that were meant to prevent this situation? I live in a development with a housing association and security who do their jobs. I have heard if the landlord forces his way onto the property I can have him arrested for criminal trespassing. Security and association knows of all my problems and the landlord says he doesn't care about them. Association has been fining him and he hasn't been paying for different violations. I found out before I moved in he was renting it out daily as an airbnb against the association rules.

 

What else can I do about this. My family will be here without me for the next 6 weeks because I need to fly out of country half way around the world. 

For starters. If you want to go to court to sue someone then literally go to court and hunt down the help desk there.  In pattaya,its on the second floor of the pattaya provincial court in jomtien on tappraya rd.  Dont bother chasing down a lawyer in a shop front along any street. They all just want to do the easy work.  Ie.  Charge 5000 baht for a simple document print out.  I doubt a lot are actually qualified and can show their licence card. I got quoted 30k to do a probate submission. Good luck and yes you probably do have rights.  Explain them to the landlord and that you both can call the appropriate gov  help line to know. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by TimeMachine

[Skipalongcassidy]

I would like to read your contract and look over the billings that you got for what kind of repairs... you may or may not have grounds to pursue damages against the homeowner and agent... if you do you can recover the damages along with the expense of an attorney... doing it the correct way is the key.

[wmlc]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:35 PM, PattayaKevin said:

I rented a pool villa recently under a 1 year contract through an agency.  Landlord is violating breaching every section of the contract. Contract says mediation is required for breaches. Agency and landlord says no need and are refusing mediation.  Landlord is liable for maintenance and repairs except for small things. He did the repairs but charged me for them. Repairs were done bad and had to be done again by the same guy. I got charged again.  I paid my second month rent, then he says he wants more.  I refused he threatens me with eviction. From my knowledge eviction needs to be done legally through the courts here in Thailand.  If I'm paying the rent as required and have receipts he would have no grounds to evict me. I contacted a lawyer who wants 130,000 baht to initiate a lawsuit against the agency and landlord.

 

Can I go after legal criminal charges against them like fraud by inducement since I signed the contract because it had clauses that were meant to prevent this situation? I live in a development with a housing association and security who do their jobs. I have heard if the landlord forces his way onto the property I can have him arrested for criminal trespassing. Security and association knows of all my problems and the landlord says he doesn't care about them. Association has been fining him and he hasn't been paying for different violations. I found out before I moved in he was renting it out daily as an airbnb against the association rules.

 

What else can I do about this. My family will be here without me for the next 6 weeks because I need to fly out of country half way around the world. 

I’ve sent you a DM these types of disputes are often handled by consumer protection. Check your DM. 

[Straight8]

On 8/31/2023 at 8:10 AM, CharlieKo said:

Find another lawyer! If your wife is Thai then get her to use the legal system to fight the Landlord and agent.

When it comes to defending the "farang", unless you have the right contacts, they are "mostly" as bad as it each other. I have a friend going through some legal stuff, and he has already changed lawyers 3 times due to them collecting the fees & doing sweet FA.

 

Good luck finding one that will actually do what he/she is paid to do.

[Straight8]

Landlord/Agent total grubs. Nothing more than targeting a foreigner in the hope they can get away with this sheet. I wonder if they would be pulling the same sh!te on a Thai National?

 

A effing total disgrace, no morals, no conscience & a total disrespect for the tenant.

 

A classic case of TiT, very little you CAN do,& so much more you can't.

[thailand49]

To be honest I skimmed through a number of the replies. Based on your comments I will give you my two baht.  I just got finished with my wife business situation which I knew 10 months ago would turn out this way because there are Thais as we know and after the first month this was the perception of the lady who both agree my wife would share the restaurant space.

In your situation what bothers me in general is so call agents or agencies dealing with Real Estate in Thailand. I'm sure there is some sort of training even licensing but what is a key factor in training and licensing has to do with ethics and disclosure that either the agents here don't understand the language of contract or they know who cares and who is watching.

 

In California, the major legislature changes in Real Estate was all about disclosure and ethics. 

 

You landlord has non what is worse the agency not sure if agency is representing the landlord solely or the entire complex. 

 

The catch for me with your story is there is no cleared mentioned as to if repairs are needed what are the limits before the tenants starts to pay plus there also doesn't seem to be clear conversation as to what is your responsibility and the landlord.  I own rental here one recently the tenant and wife got into a beef someone broke the toilet I happen to have a extra so prior to replacing I told him next time it is on you.  Things are made cheap in China and it seems the worse of stuff is sent here.

 

As for your lawyer originally, I have a big problem with one advising you to take it to court when the contract states Arbitration. What I do know lots of stuff like contract like laws here which there are millions but very few are enforced. You can get a Thai rental contract anywhere Big C, stationary dept it might list Arbitration but I wonder if there is actually a process if so how long will it take? There are lots of lawyers here that have no ethics, just as bad any amusement park that want to charge you duel pricing. 

 

When it comes to Lawyers someone mentioned don't waste your money but in the same breath advise you to let your Thai wife work with a lawyer. Unless you Thai wife comes from a International school land extension dealing with the West. She is going to be clueless with the Thai law and fall into the group " This is Thailand "  meaning they do as they like which is what your landlord and agency is doing.

 

I would look for a lawyer that would proceed with the verbal process first be able to explain to you the arbitration process, contact both the agency and landlord, have a firm conversation with them first. Why many Thais like your landlord never been confronted with the law so they do and push people around because no one has ever stood up to them. Only after these avenue have been taken explained to you in good enough English to decide to move forward in the courts. Remember you might win but how are you going to collect you can scrape the bottom of <deleted>ter so clean.

 

There is always talk they know someone even some who say I'm mafia, I've been here so long personally I don't give a rat ass who you know or related. I once was told " I'm Mafia " I take nothing for granted don't disrespect anyone or their mafia but when I was told like him I do some research right off the bat if one is mafia even it a lowly soldier they don't live in a tin can roof.

 

As for landlord knowing police like many they think every foreigners is stupid we are guess scare <deleted> so many do know friends or friends doing it for friends and not within the oath they have been sworn. In the past, I've been confronted before proceeding I ask for identification and their station if not conversation over. They are acting independently if you confront them challenge them respectfully I sense they will back off.

 

Your situation is not good there is a lost for you whether you want to accept it or not. I would search quickly for legal advice majority of the ones I have spoken to do it for free. Obtain one that in my opinion that will take the verbal route first. Meantime nothing is going to change with this women until a lawyer has a a good conversation laying out her obtains along with speaking to the agency both have already violated the contract if push come to shove if in court personally damages can be awarded. If the agency represents the complex the owners should be given noticed to the situation by a lawyer.

 

Meantime you have an urgent situation if the agency doesn't represent the complex and you want to stay look for another rental and don't make the same mistake you did the first time. If the agency does then start to look elsewhere before your family comes.

 

That was long I could be longer but my wife is calling!

 

 

 

 

 

[Shop mak]

Your landlord is a thai and might be a bully. From your description at least. They all claim to have influental friends, some do, most do not. But he might bring a friend impersonating a official to make you scared.

 

Landlord have conflict also with the association, and they haven't done anything about it?

Agency seems to be on landlord side?

No foreigner in the agency?

 

Small repairs up to 1-2,000 often falls on tenant, should be in your contract.

 

Owners right to inspect his property should also be in your contract,  owner contact tenant 1 day in advance before inspection repair.

 

On 9/1/2023 at 8:07 AM, PattayaKevin said:

If i break the contract they want the entire contract paid

Is this written in the contract?

 

Your contract should be crystal clear about early termination if a standard contract was used. Typically one loose all deposit, and that's the end of it, unless tenant has done damage to the property.

 

Whatever you plan to do next, don't reveal it to landlord.

Personally, I would not communicate with landlord, no confrontations or threats. Nothing.

 

You need a mature Thai in-between, who understand how these conflicts are done, and nothing lost in translation. It takes time, patience and lots of negotiations back and forth. Your thai gf wifes father or uncle would be

my first option. They could handle this while you are away.

 

On 8/31/2023 at 12:35 PM, PattayaKevin said:

I contacted a lawyer who wants 130,000 baht to initiate a lawsuit

Lawyers gonna cost you big time. 'Initiate' is the clue here.

 

Next time, ask expats ahead about what agency they know is reliable and fair.

[wmlc]

1 hour ago, Straight8 said:

When it comes to defending the "farang", unless you have the right contacts, they are "mostly" as bad as it each other. I have a friend going through some legal stuff, and he has already changed lawyers 3 times due to them collecting the fees & doing sweet FA.

 

Good luck finding one that will actually do what he/she is paid to do.

I know a company that will review the lease, send a legal notice to the landlord and call on behalf of the client for a monthly membership fee of 795 Thai baht with no obligation to keep the membership. Of course there are also other benefits and many do keep it after their original issue is resolved.  So, your assumption may be partially correct, but not 100%. Do some research and you will find good lawyers and companies to deal with things like this for reasonable fees. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by wmlc

[wmlc]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:35 PM, PattayaKevin said:

I rented a pool villa recently under a 1 year contract through an agency.  Landlord is violating breaching every section of the contract. Contract says mediation is required for breaches. Agency and landlord says no need and are refusing mediation.  Landlord is liable for maintenance and repairs except for small things. He did the repairs but charged me for them. Repairs were done bad and had to be done again by the same guy. I got charged again.  I paid my second month rent, then he says he wants more.  I refused he threatens me with eviction. From my knowledge eviction needs to be done legally through the courts here in Thailand.  If I'm paying the rent as required and have receipts he would have no grounds to evict me. I contacted a lawyer who wants 130,000 baht to initiate a lawsuit against the agency and landlord.

 

Can I go after legal criminal charges against them like fraud by inducement since I signed the contract because it had clauses that were meant to prevent this situation? I live in a development with a housing association and security who do their jobs. I have heard if the landlord forces his way onto the property I can have him arrested for criminal trespassing. Security and association knows of all my problems and the landlord says he doesn't care about them. Association has been fining him and he hasn't been paying for different violations. I found out before I moved in he was renting it out daily as an airbnb against the association rules.

 

What else can I do about this. My family will be here without me for the next 6 weeks because I need to fly out of country half way around the world. 

I have sent you a DM but you seem intent on dealing with what you think is a serious issue without proper legal advice. Relying on a forum full of sofa lawyers will not get you any further ahead. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by wmlc

[Somjot]

A lot of good advice here but a lot of BS as well.

 

@thailand49 has written it all; he knows what he's talking about.

 

They have a saying here in Thailand, which sounds like “leo gone, dai gone” and means:

“be evil first, get it first.”

 

Let's say your landlord forces you to pay him money, which due to the law and your rental contract you were not obliged to pay. Even if the court decides later that she must pay you back, you might never get it.

 

I've heard many times from “wise” Farangs “if you need a lawyer in Thailand you have lost already” or “if your opponent is Thai and has connections to the police, just give up and pay him what he wants, as you might wake up one day wondering why you have wings”

 

Due to personal experience, I can confirm, this is BS.

 

The judges are fair but it is important to dress, talk and act properly when at court; if you can't speak Thai, you have the right - and I would strictly recommend that - to get yourself a translator, who knows his job - the girlfriend you met last week for the first time might not be the best idea even if she is from a gentleman club.

 

I've seen Farangs attending the court in shorts and Chang Beer tank tops trying to compensate their lack of knowledge of the Thai Language by volume; needless to report the outcome.

 

A friend of mine bought a nice house in the well-known way by using a company, where he has his 49% shares. One or two years later he met a nice girl and after a few weeks he asked her to move in.

All went well but after a few months she started to get more and more demanding and about two years later, after he had tried everything to fight for the relationship, and finally found out that no matter how much he would pay her and no matter how many rules they would agree on about her expenses, she wanted only one thing: MORE.

 

He left in the morning and told her, that he will be back in the afternoon and expects her to be gone by then. When he came back the only things that had changed, were the door locks.

He shouted: “get out of my house” and she answered “this Thailand, I am Thai, this my house. Farang go back your country.”

 

He knew a good lawyer, who got him a interlocutory injunction, but every time, he came near the house with his lawyer and a few policemen, she would threaten to commit suicide if anyone would try to get in.

 

Months later he got his house back by paying a bunch of motorbike taxi drivers to observe that house 24/7. They found out, that she would sneak out late at night on certain days of the week to visit her Thai boyfriend and spend some quality time with him and buy groceries on her way back.

 

One time after she had left, he broke in, changed all the locks, and got back his house.

When she realized, she started screaming again threatening to kill himself and all he answered was “This Thailand, you are Thai, you can do, up to you but not in my house.”

 

But before it gets that far, always keep one thing in mind:

 

Always have a clean record.

 

Do not intentionally damage any part of that house. Never get into a verbal or physical fight with your landlord or anyone else. Always be polite and reasonable.

 

Any wrongdoings on your side are perfect weapons for your opponent.

 

Those Farangs, who literally <deleted> themselves, when the other guy shows up with policemen, usually have some skeletons in their cupboard and the first thing those policemen will do, when a fellow countryman asks them for help against a foreigner, is checking his papers, work permit, visa status and so on although this has nothing to do with the actual dispute between the foreigner and the Thai guy.

 

And if there are any inconsistencies, well, let's say, better if there aren't any.

 

About 15 years ago I had paid a Farang, 70.000, - Baht in advance to advertise my business in his new magazine. Of course, we had a written contract which clearly stated the beginning and the ending of the deal but somehow, he never honored his part of that contract and came up with cheap excuses, like the printing house ran out of ink or things like that.

 

I said I want my money back, which he refused, which again made me tell him that I will sue him.

 

A few days later he walked into my place accompanied by a uniformed immigration officer, from a lower rank as far as I could see, and told me, I should have known better than to mess with him.

 

A second later the officer started shouting at me with a very aggressive voice asking me for my passport, my visa, and all the permissions I needed for my business.

 

What he didn't know, was that the elder brother of my father-in-law was working in the immigration in Bangkok, his rank being Police Major General, which probably made him the boss of his boss.

 

I took my phone, called the Major General, explained him my situation and handed it to the officer.

 

He got even more aggressive and hit my hand with the back of his hand which made it fall on the floor. I picked it up and wanted to check if we are still connected, when I heard the voice of the Major General, who probably realized what just had happened:

 

“Put it on speaker.”

 

A few seconds later everybody in the room could hear his deep voice:

 

“Do you recognize my voice?”

 

It took the officer a few seconds to realize, who was talking to him and his facial expression changed from arrogant and aggressive too desperate and suicidal.

 

“Khrap”

 

“GET OUT!”

 

I got my money back within 24 hours.

 

Generally spoken Thai people seem to have high respect for lawyers and uniformed people.

 

Best thing you can do right now, is look for a good lawyer.

Google them, read the reviews and choose one. I could recommend one but try it first by yourself and find one where the chemistry is OK.

 

Get a consultation from him about your rights and your duties and report all the wrongdoings of your landlord.

It is mandatory that the communication between you and your lawyer is perfect.

 

For example, I don't think your lawyer wanted the 130.000,- for himself. I had 3 lawsuits, 2 at the civil court Pattaya and one at the family court and for each of them I had to pay for 50,000 baht deposit at the court, for the family court even 100.000,-.

 

Depending on the outcome, you'll get your money back.

 

But it has not to get that far because your situation is quite clear: they are wrong.

 

Your landlord probably thinks you're just a stupid and helpless foreigner, easy to intimidate.

 

Let your lawyer contact them by phone or letter and make it absolutely clear, that from now on every kind of communication between you and the landlord or the agency or any request to pay some bill or to inspect the house must be done with your lawyer.

 

No exceptions.

 

You will see, that will cool them down, because from then on, any wrongdoings on their side are registered it will have consequences.

[snowgard]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:35 PM, PattayaKevin said:

I rented a pool villa recently under a 1 year contract through an agency.  Landlord is violating breaching every section of the contract. Contract says mediation is required for breaches. Agency and landlord says no need and are refusing mediation.  Landlord is liable for maintenance and repairs except for small things. He did the repairs but charged me for them. Repairs were done bad and had to be done again by the same guy. I got charged again.  I paid my second month rent, then he says he wants more.  I refused he threatens me with eviction. From my knowledge eviction needs to be done legally through the courts here in Thailand.  If I'm paying the rent as required and have receipts he would have no grounds to evict me. I contacted a lawyer who wants 130,000 baht to initiate a lawsuit against the agency and landlord.

 

Can I go after legal criminal charges against them like fraud by inducement since I signed the contract because it had clauses that were meant to prevent this situation? I live in a development with a housing association and security who do their jobs. I have heard if the landlord forces his way onto the property I can have him arrested for criminal trespassing. Security and association knows of all my problems and the landlord says he doesn't care about them. Association has been fining him and he hasn't been paying for different violations. I found out before I moved in he was renting it out daily as an airbnb against the association rules.

 

What else can I do about this. My family will be here without me for the next 6 weeks because I need to fly out of country half way around the world. 

Contact the consumer protection office online or if you are in pattaya you can find it in the city hall, northpattayaroad, opposite lotus. they have lawyers who done it free.

https://www.ocpb.go.th/ewtadmin/ewt/ocpb_en/

 

[wmlc]

Oh my god. I have never seen anything like this before in my life. This is what I read here. A few say get a lawyer. Most say don’t because it’s too expensive or they won’t help you because they’re lazy. One guy sending the OP to consumer protection with no Thai language support saying they have free lawyers. Then one bloke writes a book about how he knows an immigration officer who saved  his ass on a business deal. One thing we do know is that if anyone living in a foreign country has issues, they should not be doing these types of things alone. However, in the end, the ops situation has somehow miraculously solved itself!!! Good job to all the sofa lawyers. Here’s to a job well done. No lawyer will make one Baht and the world is still safe.????????????

Edited September 2, 2023 by wmlc

[PattayaKevin]

I've retained a thai lawyer who as of at least now is doing all the work for free. I've got the thai department of revenue to initiate a tax evasion case against the landlord.