Professionalism Of Thai Cockpit Crew Questioned After Bad Landing

[Mid]

about that VP .............................

HE LIED .

............. ............... ................. ................

opps new page ,

thanxs tax for this article

bkk post article here

Edited July 28, 2007 by Mid

[captainstabbin]

about that VP .............................

HE LIED .

And you are surprised?

[Mid]

about that VP .............................

HE LIED .

And you are surprised?

me ? no ,

there are some in this thread who have the proverbial egg on face syndrome though .

[captainstabbin]

about that VP .............................

HE LIED .

And you are surprised?

me ? no ,

there are some in this thread who have the proverbial egg on face syndrome though .

Hope all of those boarding THAI flights feel safe and secure from now on. I, for one, will not be joining them!

[Moruya]

The latest news is that Thai Airways have allegedly agreed to pay for the damage its aircraft caused on landing and veering to the left of the runway insodoing, destroying some runway lamps...

[source = Bangkok Post]

"Thai Airways International (THAI) has agreed to compensate Suvarnabhumi airport for damage caused to a runway by one of its aircraft earlier this month, Suvarnabhumi airport director Serirat Prasutatnont said yesterday. The aircraft in question, an Airbus A300-600 which arrived from Phuket, caused the damage when it momentarily slid off the runway at Suvarnabhumi airport during heavy rain at around 5.30pm on July 7. But the pilot never reported the incident, Mr Serirat said. The plane partly missed the runway and smashed some runway lights. Its left rear wheels slid off of the runway and ran on the grass beside the tarmac, leaving behind a track about 100 metres long in the soil. However, its pilot managed to bring the aircraft back onto the runway and stop safely at the B4 parking bay.

About an hour later, the pilot of a Thai AirAsia flight informed the control tower of dirt tracks on the eastern runway. The runway was then closed from 7pm on July 7 to 6am the following morning for maintenance and inspection. The pilot of the Thai Airways flight reportedly failed to inform the Airports of Thailand (AOT) of the incident.

The Thai Airways flight smudged the tarmac as mud was spread all over its left rear wheels and the underneath of its fuselage.

The plane also smashed four sets of runway lamps. The repair of the lamps cost the Airports of Thailand 72,800 baht on top of 98,000 baht required for cleaning the eastern runway.

Mr Serirat said the Airports of Thailand has written to Thai Airways seeking compensation and the national carrier has agreed to take financial responsibility for the damage.

Airports of Thailand board member and spokesman Chirmsak Pinthong said the board had ordered an investigation into the incident which proved the problem did not stem from any runway defect."

[Moruya]

Latest from PPRUNE:

I've just read all your comments with interest. Was there an incident? YES! I was onboard that flight and believe me it all happened. We ran off the runway when landing. Not taxiing. We were going fast and ran off the runway and everyone onboard heard it and felt it. I could see it because I was watching the wing fill with mud and grass. The noise was deafening. People were screaming "Oh my God" and other scary stuff. Who are they kidding saying the passengers didn't know? The guy next to me broke into tears! I had to get back on a flight to return to Hong Kong and I had to call a pilot friend to help me get over my fear just to get back on another flight! The thing that made the whole experience so bad was that there was no announcement over the PA. Just get off the plane and all the flight crew pretending nothing happened. I can't believe people are saying IF and incident occured. There must have been 20 passesgers who leant over my seat to take photos. Believe me it took place!

[dekka007]

Well done to the crew who controlled an unexpected situation with skill and professionalism that resulted in no injuries to passengers or crew.

Everyone here is more concerned with the lack of reporting / damages to aircraft / airport facilities.

At the end of the day you want a skilled pilot who will get you to your destination safely even when unexpected emergency situations arise such as this.

Alright so protocol was not followed correctly post event but no one was injured / died during the event which is the main thing and shows the professionalism and skill of the flightdeck crew DURING the incident - WHICH IS WHERE IT COUNTS.

I would not hesitate 1 sec to get on a airplane with the same crew tomorrow. Well flown guys!

Edited August 3, 2007 by dekka007

[WISteve]

Well done to the crew who controlled an unexpected situation with skill and professionalism that resulted in no injuries to passengers or crew.

Everyone here is more concerned with the lack of reporting / damages to aircraft / airport facilities.

At the end of the day you want a skilled pilot who will get you to your destination safely even when unexpected emergency situations arise such as this.

Alright so protocol was not followed correctly post event but no one was injured / died during the event which is the main thing and shows the professionalism and skill of the flightdeck crew DURING the incident - WHICH IS WHERE IT COUNTS.

I would not hesitate 1 sec to get on a airplane with the same crew tomorrow. Well flown guys!

You're joking right?

The pilot and co-pilot are trying to cover up an incident, breaking major rules of their profession, but since there is no blood in the streets you're proud of them?

No thoughts for the planes that are landing on that muddied runway and potential of an accident because the THAI pilot was covering his bum by not reporting the incident?

Professional ethics be dam*d as long as he somehow keeps the shiny side up?

And a company VP who has a penchant for stonewalling on safety issues.

I think the air crew will have some answering to do after this one. And hope they never fly again!

~WISteve

[Tony Clifton]

Well done to the crew who controlled an unexpected situation with skill and professionalism that resulted in no injuries to passengers or crew.

Everyone here is more concerned with the lack of reporting / damages to aircraft / airport facilities.

At the end of the day you want a skilled pilot who will get you to your destination safely even when unexpected emergency situations arise such as this.

Alright so protocol was not followed correctly post event but no one was injured / died during the event which is the main thing and shows the professionalism and skill of the flightdeck crew DURING the incident - WHICH IS WHERE IT COUNTS.

I would not hesitate 1 sec to get on a airplane with the same crew tomorrow. Well flown guys!

Same plane?

[Moruya]

Well done to the crew who controlled an unexpected situation with skill and professionalism that resulted in no injuries to passengers or crew.

Everyone here is more concerned with the lack of reporting / damages to aircraft / airport facilities.

At the end of the day you want a skilled pilot who will get you to your destination safely even when unexpected emergency situations arise such as this.

Alright so protocol was not followed correctly post event but no one was injured / died during the event which is the main thing and shows the professionalism and skill of the flightdeck crew DURING the incident - WHICH IS WHERE IT COUNTS.

I would not hesitate 1 sec to get on a airplane with the same crew tomorrow. Well flown guys!

You're joking right?

The pilot and co-pilot are trying to cover up an incident, breaking major rules of their profession, but since there is no blood in the streets you're proud of them?

No thoughts for the planes that are landing on that muddied runway and potential of an accident because the THAI pilot was covering his bum by not reporting the incident?

Professional ethics be dam*d as long as he somehow keeps the shiny side up?

And a company VP who has a penchant for stonewalling on safety issues.

I think the air crew will have some answering to do after this one. And hope they never fly again!

~WISteve

I'm not convinced we've heard the truth over whether the crew filed a report or not - but that is certainly a major part of this problem. Leaving mud all over the runway was extremely dangerous for incoming planes as the friction would have been reduced in eneven patches.

More importantly, how did they manage to leave the runway at high speed? That was not great work at all unless there were exceptional weather conditions which have not been hitherto reported.

Whether 'jerking' a plane off the mud and back onto the tarmac was the right thing to do in these circumstances I am not sure. My guess is that you need to get the wheels all back onto the runway to decelerate and stop effectively. Wonder if the video is available?

Whatever the case, this needs a full investigation to ensure that the correct steps were taken - and if they weren't then the appropriate action needs to be taken. 200 tons of aeroplane coming in at 180 miles an hour needs a hel_l of a lot of control and discipline and is at it's most dangerous at this time.

[taxexile]

some more quotes from the pprune website ,( the professional pilots rumour network.)

This aircraft apparently had a history of recent brake problems and on this landing within 1 sec of auto brake application the aircraft veered significantly to the left.

Obviously controlled by the crew else would have made immediate news!! No idea about the lack of reporting comments but would take an even bigger pinch of salt with any local media aviation reporting.

dinbangkok makes what happened somewhat clearer. To swerve that much on landing that the aircraft left the runway and not to report it is highly significant.

To have set autobrake on the approach with a known history of braking problems was a poor decision. To have had the incident and then just walked away from the aircraft without checking it after shutdown was irresponsible.

Off the paved surface for 100 metres, damaged runway lights, mud all over the aeroplane are bad enough, but I wonder...how did the respective Commander so quickly assertain that there was no damage to the aeroplane, that he felt it not necessary to report the incident.

Where I have worked, this sort of nonsense is immediate grounds for suspension...and likely dismissal.

Going off the paved surface is one thing, not reporting is quite another...and not good.

[Mid]

what part of mai pen rai is causing the confusion ?

[dekka007]

You're joking right?

You miss understand my point - Indeed if the alleged cover accusations are true - That is not good.

The more important factor to me and if say for example my family were on that flight.

1. Were the crew able to analyse the brake issue correctly and what was occuring at a busy part of the flight - YES

2. Were the crew able to react to the malfunction in time - YES

3. Were the crew actions correct in dealing with the malfunction - YES

4. Were the crew able to correct the situation skillfully and professionally to avoid injury to passengers / crew - YES

5. Were the crew able to control the aircraft in a way that prevented further collision with another aircraft / vehicle / structure / Person - YES

........ ........

All my above points are based on FACT - not allegations.

Were the crew wrong if the allegations of failure to report true - Yes totally and they should be disciplined accordingly if the if true.

But whats more important here.....look at the big picture.

Edited August 3, 2007 by dekka007

[Mid]

1. Were the crew able to analyse the brake issue and what was occuring at a busy part of the flight - YES

To have set autobrake on the approach with a known history of braking problems was a poor decision. To have had the incident and then just walked away from the aircraft without checking it after shutdown was irresponsible.

yo daddy the pilot ??

[dekka007]

To have set autobrake on the approach with a known history of braking problems was a poor decision

Not necessarily....impossible to comment without reference to the aircraft technical log and engineering ADD's.

Without that impossible to say. I have used autobrake LOW/MED on an A300-600 with braking issues - it totally depends on the Tech Log entry, the add entry from the engineering the Configuration Deviation List and the Minimum Equipment List.

Who stated it was a bad decision some armchair pilot without the information required to make that statement no doubt.

It seems to me people just read pprune.org and take that as gospel.....believe me its not.

I am not denying the if the allegations are true it is something that will have to be dealt with. I am stating this Incident could have been a lot worse if handled incorrectly by the crew.

yo daddy the pilot ??

This question mai ko chai

Edited August 3, 2007 by dekka007

[Mid]

please tell us who you fly for ,

I want to know who to avoid .

[taxexile]

It seems to me you cjust read pprune.org and take that as gospel.....believe me its not.

please dont shoot the messenger.

i know nothing about flying , but i read pprune because i find planes etc. interesting.

i just cut and pasted some comments from over there because they are relevant to this discussion , and so that those knowledgeable about flying can thrash them out over here.

[dekka007]

please tell us who you fly for ,

I want to know who to avoid .

Well 15 years of professional flying for airlines I do think I know what I am talking about and have seen most things.

Its people like you with little knowledge or expertise and "google pilots" that just winds most of us up working in the industry - cause you have no idea......full stop.

The text below your avatar is very fitting....I think its that most important part in the head that is missing.

Happy Flying....

Edited August 3, 2007 by dekka007

[Mid]

as expected you completely miss / ignored the point ,

you could google the following key words

denial

face saving

cover up

like it or not passengers lives were exposed to unnecessary risk .

[dekka007]

like it or not passengers lives were exposed to unnecessary risk

Do explain how it was unnecessary and avoidable?

Your welcome to come over here and I will talk you through the A300-600 brake system manuals and how the autobrake works in tandem with this system and in fact I will show the MEL and CDL for the aircraft which shows you can depending on the nature of the braking problem still use autobrake low/med/max ....

Second thoughts i retract that offer its not worth the effort for people like you...and you probably would not understand anyway.

[Mid]

Do explain how it was unnecessary and avoidable?

it's necessary to go off the runway ?

you don't operate to avoid going off the runway ?

[dekka007]

it's necessary to go off the runway ?

you don't operate to avoid going off the runway ?

With all due respect Like I said you have no Idea about flying mate.....no idea at all.

Going of the runway could be a result of the malfunction yes of course we do not try and put an aircraft off the runway but a catastrophic failure of a system may result in that occuring.

What is important is after it did occur through system failure that the crew corrected it in a timely / safe manner before the incident escalated.

Edited August 3, 2007 by dekka007

[Mid]

what is important is the cavalier attitude to the incident and the requirements for reporting same , not to mention the executives attitude .

your in the people business and the safety of your passengers must come above all else .

[dekka007]

what is important is the cavalier attitude to the incident and the requirements for reporting same , not to mention the executives attitude .

your in the people business and the safety of your passengers must come above all else .

Agreed. If the allegations are correct I agree 100% the crew should be disciplined in the appropiate manner and retraining if necessary.

However I feel the crew should also be congratulated because what could have been a very serious incident was well handled and controlled and safely resolved without injury to the passengers.

It should have been well handled and well reported agreed. However give me well handled over well reported anyday.

[pgrin]

If I am driving my car at over 100 kph, leave the road for over 100 meters, and strike 4 lightpost damaging both the lightposts and my car this is not an incident nor an event nor an occurrence, this is a a crash. Likewise if an airplane does the same. This is bad enough but for the pilot and flight deck crew to pretend it did not happen is inexcusable and criminal. Their failure to report this crash before they even reached the gate with an unequivocal demand for the immediate shut down of the rumway involved is grounds for the immediate revocation of their licenses with permanent grounding. They had no way of knowing how much debris they left behind them on an active runway, pieces of the plane, a light standard, or a gash in the tarmac where they exited or re-entered. Every airplane landing and taking off after their cowardly act was in danger as well as the lives of thousands of travellers. The only thing they failed to do was run away from the crash site. If a piece of tire rubber could bring down the Concord I can only imagine the carnage that could have occurred. The fact that no bad things happened is a blessing but in no way minimizes the gravity of their crime.

P

[Mid]

It should have been well handled and well reported agreed. However give me well handled over well reported anyday.

appreciate your peace offering ,

however IF the reporting procedures were complied with 100% , is there not a good chance that the previous auto-braking fault would have had more significance in the pilots decision to use same ?

well handled = reactive

well reported = proactive

your call.

[dekka007]

My final post on this matter until I have a copy of the full DCA report is this:

1. If the allegations of failure to report are true. This is gross misconduct and the appropiate measures actions will be undertaken.

2. The incident occured due to a failure of a component of the braking system - The incident was well assessed / handled by the crew resulting in only minor damage to aircraft / ground facilities and no injuries to anyone. It was a well controlled emergency as far as I am concerned.

Things will become clearer towards the end of the year with the investigation results are published.

Edited August 3, 2007 by dekka007

[Mid]

please post again when you have the report

regards

mid

[sibeymai]

If I am driving my car at over 100 kph, leave the road for over 100 meters, and strike 4 lightpost damaging both the lightposts and my car this is not an incident nor an event nor an occurrence, this is a a crash. Likewise if an airplane does the same. This is bad enough but for the pilot and flight deck crew to pretend it did not happen is inexcusable and criminal. Their failure to report this crash before they even reached the gate with an unequivocal demand for the immediate shut down of the rumway involved is grounds for the immediate revocation of their licenses with permanent grounding. They had no way of knowing how much debris they left behind them on an active runway, pieces of the plane, a light standard, or a gash in the tarmac where they exited or re-entered. Every airplane landing and taking off after their cowardly act was in danger as well as the lives of thousands of travellers. The only thing they failed to do was run away from the crash site. If a piece of tire rubber could bring down the Concord I can only imagine the carnage that could have occurred. The fact that no bad things happened is a blessing but in no way minimizes the gravity of their crime.

P

This post sums it up completely for me. The failure to report the incident endangered the lives of other aircraft and people. The Thai pilots should be grounded as a disciplinary measure and Thai airlines fined. Personally if I was the Thai exec these pilots reported to they'd be looking for a new job. No excuse to gamble with other people's lives.

[UnknownPoster]

Isn't it time, this new Airport consider hiring 'outside' help?

In fact, isn't time this Country hire 'outside' help?

The lack of integrity, morals and ethics is appalling.