Advice Re Thai Gf Honesty

[gburns57au]

We dont know the girl so we cant say what she is truly like....It would be rough if the OP broke off with the girl because of any comment made here.

.

That infers that you actually believe that a guy would pour out his heart to a bunch of cynical strangers on a well known internet Forum where the answers he will recieve are totally predictable, all he has to do is look up any of the other 150,000 threads that deal with the same issue.

Of which 149,999 ( including his )are Trolls...................

Innocent till proven guilty...

Maybe there is someone else reading this that has the same questions but hasnt posted...what will they take from it ??

[Payboy]

how much do one-on-one lessons with an english teacher cost?

[WaiWai]

Innocent till proven guilty...

Didn't she admit it ?

[t.s]

But in this country truth is a different thing entirely, and the use or misuse of lies does not carry the same principled weight.

truth is truth and a lie is a lie. it does not differ between the two cultures. do not let anyone tell you different.

what may differ are the motivations for lies

Spoken like a true flag bearer of the empire of western values.

hardly.

you claim your thai is good, are there not direct translations for either term?

people in different cultures lie for different reasons, especially once their basic needs are met.

if a clerk tells you that something is out of stock because they dont undersand what you are aking for, it is still a lie, irrespective of whether or not it was told so they did not have to lose face.

surely you can grasp that?

Sorry, these subtle distinctions are lost on uneducated lot like me.

uneducated is not the word that springs to mind

[gburns57au]

Innocent till proven guilty...

Didn't she admit it ?

I was talking about the comment on trolls......please keep up.....

[WaiWai]

I was talking about the comment on trolls......please keep up.....

Ahhhhh ... that's good, 'cos I was really getting confused wondering why her confession would have been fabricated.

[t.s]

But in this country truth is a different thing entirely, and the use or misuse of lies does not carry the same principled weight.

truth is truth and a lie is a lie. it does not differ between the two cultures. do not let anyone tell you different.

what may differ are the motivations for lies

Spoken like a true flag bearer of the empire of western values.

hardly.

you claim your thai is good, are there not direct translations for either term?

people in different cultures lie for different reasons, especially once their basic needs are met.

if a clerk tells you that something is out of stock because they dont undersand what you are aking for, it is still a lie, irrespective of whether or not it was told so they did not have to lose face.

surely you can grasp that?

Sorry, these subtle distinctions are lost on uneducated lot like me.

uneducated is not the word that springs to mind.

that sublte distinctions may give you trouble is apparent, because my point is very similar to yours, minus the apology.

Edited August 7, 2007 by sbk
fixed quote

[WaiWai]

Seriously, these cultural differences about lying and "face" are big issues for the OP. First, if he has not already done so, he should familiarize himself with how these differences work (yet again, I advise googling "high context" & "low context" cultures). Then he must consider to what extent he feels he can adjust to such differences generally. Sometimes we "Westerners" are too apt to assume everyone operates from the same basic values.

He then needs to consider to where his gf may fit within these Thai cultural norms (this varies somewhat from person to person). Can he accept where she is coming from, as an individual within the cultural setting ?

It is not an easy adjustment, because the value of "truth" is very strong in most "farang" (European/US/Canadian/UK/Aus/NZ) cultures.

[wasabi]

Just to clarify my post about different conceptions of truth between Thai and Farang. Yes anyone knows the truth from a lie. I should have said, there are different consequences of lying and degrees of remorse between the two cultures. If on the Thai said one can say they saved face for themselves or another than the lie is justified, there is rarely such a thing as the blunt truth, or painfully honest. You're more likely to encounter comfortably insincere. While I can sympathize with this somewhat the face saving is most often in self interest and this principle is overused.

[DamianMavis]

Is there anything - ANYTHING - so sad as a farang guy desperately trying to convince himself that what is obviously black is, in fact, white?

Sad. Very sad.

Bendix you DA MAN! haha. Do all of you suggesting this is ok have no self esteem or self respect? And the OP?! She didnt tell a white lie she straight up lied and scammed to STEAL a nice chunk of cash at the early stages of the relationship! Would this be acceptable ANYWERE? And people trying to explain it away because she is thai... STOP EXCUSING BAD BEHAVIOUR WITH CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. Thats BULLSHEET........ Normal Thai people DO NOT LIE AND STEAL. And they certainly don't lie and steal from someone they supposedly like or love.

ok ranting and raving aside, I do feel really bad because ya, alot of you probably don't have alot of self respect and self esteem when it comes to women, maybe in business you guys were the pillars of strength and reason but when it comes to women I see so many bad decisions and I realise alot of you guys are just REALLY lonely. It makes me sad..... I worry that all the bad things you put up with for love at the beginning don't eventually turn into something REALLY BAD in the end and cause you way more pain and grief than the love you temporarily felt. Is it truly worth it? I know some of you swear by it and are happy (or say you are) after X amount of years but surely that is a rare thing?

Damian

[uptou]

i definitely wouldnt get serious with her after that if shes admitted trying it on with the money.if shes this tricky with wanting cash then whos to say shes not seing other men?

[zaza]

Is there anything - ANYTHING - so sad as a farang guy desperately trying to convince himself that what is obviously black is, in fact, white?

Sad. Very sad.

Bendix you DA MAN! haha. Do all of you suggesting this is ok have no self esteem or self respect? And the OP?! She didnt tell a white lie she straight up lied and scammed to STEAL a nice chunk of cash at the early stages of the relationship! Would this be acceptable ANYWERE? And people trying to explain it away because she is thai... STOP EXCUSING BAD BEHAVIOUR WITH CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. Thats BULLSHEET........ Normal Thai people DO NOT LIE AND STEAL. And they certainly don't lie and steal from someone they supposedly like or love.

ok ranting and raving aside, I do feel really bad because ya, alot of you probably don't have alot of self respect and self esteem when it comes to women, maybe in business you guys were the pillars of strength and reason but when it comes to women I see so many bad decisions and I realise alot of you guys are just REALLY lonely. It makes me sad..... I worry that all the bad things you put up with for love at the beginning don't eventually turn into something REALLY BAD in the end and cause you way more pain and grief than the love you temporarily felt. Is it truly worth it? I know some of you swear by it and are happy (or say you are) after X amount of years but surely that is a rare thing?

Damian

[uptou]

a good lie:some ugly,boring bird asks you out on a date,& you tell her your busy so as not to hurt her feelings.

a bad lie:a girlfreind trys to scam 15000 baht out of you,& then says sorry.

[chinthee]

Is there anything - ANYTHING - so sad as a farang guy desperately trying to convince himself that what is obviously black is, in fact, white?

Sad. Very sad.

Normal Thai people DO NOT LIE AND STEAL. And they certainly don't lie and steal from someone they supposedly like or love.

Damian

Sorry, I noticed you're from Canada, and I'm sorry to inform you that you have inadvertently stumbled on a Thailand forum. Please check your browser, there may have been some error.

[WaiWai]

STOP EXCUSING BAD BEHAVIOUR WITH CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. Thats BULLSHEET........

I don't think anyone is suggesting they should.

However, the cultural differences surrounding issues such as lying undoubtedly exist. This all adds to the confusion the OP may be experiencing about whether he should trust this girl, and to what extent he may be prepared to compromise.

As we have all observed, some people are prepared to compromise to quite a great extent. In the context of thai-foreigner relationships, then, I think the OP was really asking whether others thought this girl was an outright NO! NO! NO! or not.

You have given your opinion , I have just given some matters for consideration .

Edited August 7, 2007 by WaiWai

[maccado]

Well thanks for all the reply's, there seems to be a split in opinions.

I appreciate the advice. I am not sad and deluded and to give you a few more details.

I am 35 and a reasonably attarctive and fit young man, my gf is 29.

I know she does not work in a bar or have another bf or anything like that as i have lived at her apartment for a month last time i was in thailand have met all her friends and family and been to her work and should i continue with this relationship then i will in october go and live in her apartment for 6 months to see how things work out.

I would like to make it clear also that she has never asked me for anything and it was my sugestion to give her money for the lessons.

The 2200 baht price i found out was for 30 hours she said she wanted 90 hours so the preice would have been 6600 baht she asked me for 15,000.

When i confronted her on this she said she wanted the extra money to pay for costs of transpor and books and also to send 5000 baht to her mum.

She seems genuinley sorry and has told me not to send any money and that she will find a way to pay for the lessons her self.

I am not naiive and am not lonely, i have worked in many countries in the past and have never had a problem getting a gf.

The money for me is not a problem, it is the fact that she felt she could not be honest with me.

That she would lie to someone she supposedley loves for money for her family, does this mean that her family will always come first.

She said she was ashamed to ask for money for her mum .....

Anyway i am still not sure what to do i am thinking i will proceed with extreme caution.

[WaiWai]

That she would lie to someone she supposedley loves for money for her family, does this mean that her family will always come first.

Yes, it does.

I think "proceed with much caution" is definitely wise.

[bkkmadness]

My wife would not let me take Thai lessons, she thought it would give me too much independence, my new girlfriend thinks learning Thai is a great idea...

Sounds like you need a little independence. You don't need permission from your wife to learn the language.

[DamianMavis]

I know..... I know there are differences, but bad people are bad in any country and we as falangs make excuses for bad people here because we don't understand and are too stupid to fully grasp their culture, so we let bad people into our lives thinking it is normal and all Thais are the same when it is not normal and those are only the bad Thai people. Cripes I used to be the one on the other side of the argument... how did this happen? haha

Keep in mind I don't consider it lying when I ask a clerk a question and they say "don't have" because they don't know the answer.

Damian

Edited August 7, 2007 by DamianMavis

[Austhaied]

Well thanks for all the reply's, there seems to be a split in opinions.

I appreciate the advice. I am not sad and deluded and to give you a few more details.

I am 35 and a reasonably attarctive and fit young man, my gf is 29.

I know she does not work in a bar or have another bf or anything like that as i have lived at her apartment for a month last time i was in thailand have met all her friends and family and been to her work and should i continue with this relationship then i will in october go and live in her apartment for 6 months to see how things work out.

I would like to make it clear also that she has never asked me for anything and it was my sugestion to give her money for the lessons.

The 2200 baht price i found out was for 30 hours she said she wanted 90 hours so the preice would have been 6600 baht she asked me for 15,000.

When i confronted her on this she said she wanted the extra money to pay for costs of transpor and books and also to send 5000 baht to her mum.

She seems genuinley sorry and has told me not to send any money and that she will find a way to pay for the lessons her self.

I am not naiive and am not lonely, i have worked in many countries in the past and have never had a problem getting a gf.

The money for me is not a problem, it is the fact that she felt she could not be honest with me.

That she would lie to someone she supposedley loves for money for her family, does this mean that her family will always come first.

She said she was ashamed to ask for money for her mum .....

Anyway i am still not sure what to do i am thinking i will proceed with extreme caution.

Read this before you do anything.. http://www.dcothai.com/product_info.php?pr...895f9fb2b79087f

[WaiWai]

I know..... I know there are differences, but bad people are bad in any country and we as falangs make excuses for bad people here because we don't understand and are too stupid to fully grasp their culture, so we let bad people into our lives thinking it is normal and all Thais are the same when it is not normal and those are only the bad Thai people. Cripes I used to be the one on the other side of the argument... how did this happen? haha

Damian

Yes, that is exploiting cultural differences. But I see quite a bit of "willing suspension of disbelief", too.

maybe in business you guys were the pillars of strength and reason but when it comes to women I see so many bad decisions and I realise alot of you guys are just REALLY lonely

I think we have rather a large number of engineers here .

[DamianMavis]

Well thanks for all the reply's, there seems to be a split in opinions.

I appreciate the advice. I am not sad and deluded and to give you a few more details.

I am 35 and a reasonably attarctive and fit young man, my gf is 29.

I know she does not work in a bar or have another bf or anything like that as i have lived at her apartment for a month last time i was in thailand have met all her friends and family and been to her work and should i continue with this relationship then i will in october go and live in her apartment for 6 months to see how things work out.

I would like to make it clear also that she has never asked me for anything and it was my sugestion to give her money for the lessons.

The 2200 baht price i found out was for 30 hours she said she wanted 90 hours so the preice would have been 6600 baht she asked me for 15,000.

When i confronted her on this she said she wanted the extra money to pay for costs of transpor and books and also to send 5000 baht to her mum.

She seems genuinley sorry and has told me not to send any money and that she will find a way to pay for the lessons her self.

I am not naiive and am not lonely, i have worked in many countries in the past and have never had a problem getting a gf.

The money for me is not a problem, it is the fact that she felt she could not be honest with me.

That she would lie to someone she supposedley loves for money for her family, does this mean that her family will always come first.

She said she was ashamed to ask for money for her mum .....

Anyway i am still not sure what to do i am thinking i will proceed with extreme caution.

Holy Frak well in that case! If you arent a fat old dude who cant get anything better than I seriously suggest you find another really nice girl that DOESN'T lie. If you don't fall into the desperate and lonely group than there is no excuse for tolerating this kind of scam and behaviour. I don't care how sorry she seems, she's sorry she got caught, they are ALL sorry when they got caught (if they fear they will lose you). You can never trust or believe her again. She totally blew it, she had a chance with a young good looking guy (I assume) that would have married her and taken care of her for the rest of her life. It's not worth it if you can easily go out and find another "good girl". There are TONS of nice sweet good looking women that wont lie and try to scam you and WILL actually love you, find one of those.

Damian

[true blue]

women test your patiance all the time especially thai ladies were money is concerned a lot of them are influenced by there peers when falang appears in the picture can assure you it will cost you more than 15000 bht for a 6 month fling in los

[recluse]

To put it nicely, what is considered truth in our culture vs Thai culture is not the same. I believe the perception of this dilemma cannot be debated on this forum without upsetting at least half of the people. I think the best bet is never invest more financially or emotionally than you are prepared to walk away from because the risks are high.

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with 'wasabi' on this one. Just to make sure that I was correct, I just asked my Thai wife who has lived in both the American and Thai culture and is totally fluent in both languages as to whether she sees any difference in cultures in what is considered lying and her answer was that there is no difference. The interesting thing I just learned is that Thai's also understand the concept of what we call a 'white lie' but do not have a specific name for it as we do.

Lying is the easiest way to destroy trust so it should always be one of the most important issues to consider before entering into any meaningful romantic relationship

[bangkoksingapore]

op what would you do if it were a girl in the UK?

[bangkoksingapore]

That she would lie to someone she supposedley loves for money for her family, does this mean that her family will always come first.

Yes, it does.

I think "proceed with much caution" is definitely wise.

this is the lie that many farang LOVE to tell themselves. she really does love me to death, but she loves her family more. oh, i pity her, the poor lass, she really is a good girl its just her culture that makes her put her family first. In reality, this is not the case. She puts her family first (and lets not be silly, not all the money goes to her family, plenty of it goes to herself) because she doesnt see you as anything more then a walking ATM, of which she probably has 104 in her cell phone.

[recluse]

Something aint right here because as someone pointed out, most TGs will not admit to lying even if the evidence is overwhelming. I think the story is a load of bunk. It dont add up

[bangkoksingapore]

I know many men who tell little white lies regarding their intentions regarding faithfulness to the women they are dating. Some of them turn out to be fine husbands in the future. Don't be so hard on men and women lying early in a relationship.

let me guess, you are one of this men who lies. or "your friend" is? lol.

[Bellatrix]

How can I get a boyfriend that I only have to see every couple of months and that will send me money (and not get mad if I lie my way into getting more)?? Extra points if he tells everyone what a good girl I am.

[Maigo6]

In reality, this is not the case. She puts her family first

Whatever next.................

A Thai girl putting her Family above some Farang that she has known for a few weeks, my god, she must be terrible.

Advise her to throw her aging parents into an old peoples home like they do in the west, I'm sure she would be considered a saint by the jaded bitter and twisted veterans of Thia Visa.

But the Trollls would hate her.

I cannot believe the responses from the majority here, any opportunity to bash Thai people is a godsend to most, even if the original story is a load old bo locks that has been repeated over and over again.

The thing is, how many of the posters here have ever met any Thai woman that they did not meet on a barstool?

Judging by the state of most of the Farangs I see in Thailand, they should be falling to their knees and kissing Thailands streets to even have the opportunity of female companionship, paid or not.