Global Correction

[LaoPo]

The whole world is discussing the YES or NO Bail Out by the House, tomorrow, but in the meantime the signs for the real economy are bad...quite bad:

Chinese manufacturing drops in September: report

By Chris Oliver, MarketWatch

Last update: 11:34 p.m. EDT Oct. 1, 2008

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Business conditions in China's manufacturing sector declined for a second straight month in September as orders fell at a record pace, reflecting sluggish domestic and global demand, according to a brokerage survey.

Rest:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chin...printMidSection

Auto Sales Fall 27% As Credit Tightens

By Sholnn Freeman

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, October 2, 2008; Page D01

Americans steered clear of auto dealerships in September, sending sales of new cars and trucks tumbling as credit conditions tightened.

Overall, automakers sold 964,873 new cars, trucks and minivans in the United States last month, a fall of 27 percent from September a year ago, according to preliminary data released yesterday by the industry research firm Autodata.

General Motors, Toyota, Ford and Chrysler, the four largest automakers in the U.S. market, reported double-digit sales drops. GM said sales sank 16 percent in September vs. a year ago. At Toyota and Ford, sales were down 32 percent and 34 percent respectively. Chrysler's sales eroded 33 percent.

Rest:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8100102928.html

Note:

In Holland car sales were up 3.6% from Jan>August. August was +3%.

But in August EU Car sales were down -15.6% and there was a dramatic drop in sales in Spain (extremely bad housing crisis in Spain) of -41% in August whilst the year shows a drop of -21.15%.

UK Car sales (new car registrations) dropped -18.6% in August.

edit

But Brazil, Russia, India and China continue to post double-digit gains in automotive sales, it said.

Eighty-eight per cent -88%- of new vehicles sold in Brazil are flex-fuel models that can run on less expensive ethanol, manufactured domestically from sugar cane. Its vehicle sales were up more than 24 percent in the first half of 2008.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1217451751.7/

LaoPo

Edited October 2, 2008 by LaoPo

[midas]

Auto Sales Fall 27% As Credit Tightens

Americans steered clear of auto dealerships in September, sending sales of new cars and trucks tumbling as credit conditions tightened.

LaoPo

If " the Bill " finally passes on Friday, is that meant to change conditions to help to change these figures do you think?

[Naam]

if some frustrated poor boy thinks that mentioning an important fact like tax savings in a discussion "why do you live in Thailand?" is "flaunting wealth in an obscure way" i can only smile. what is there to defend?

Where did you get the idea I was poor?

siamamerican 2006-02-19 14:00:01

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

siamamerican 2006-02-22 13:43:50

I'm not ready to retire (nor have the money), and probably need the structure work brings to my life.

Getting an EFL cert and teaching English would keep me from dipping too much into my savings while looking for better employment opportunities.

Working in Thailand, making $1,500-$2,000 a month would be preferred over my current situation. If I save $300,000 before I make the move, I could invest the money and with any luck double it in 10 years.

you asked for it

[LaoPo]

if some frustrated poor boy thinks that mentioning an important fact like tax savings in a discussion "why do you live in Thailand?" is "flaunting wealth in an obscure way" i can only smile. what is there to defend?

Where did you get the idea I was poor?

siamamerican 2006-02-19 14:00:01

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

siamamerican 2006-02-22 13:43:50

I'm not ready to retire (nor have the money), and probably need the structure work brings to my life.

Getting an EFL cert and teaching English would keep me from dipping too much into my savings while looking for better employment opportunities.

Working in Thailand, making $1,500-$2,000 a month would be preferred over my current situation. If I save $300,000 before I make the move, I could invest the money and with any luck double it in 10 years.

you asked for it

...Oh dear...

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Auto Sales Fall 27% As Credit Tightens

Americans steered clear of auto dealerships in September, sending sales of new cars and trucks tumbling as credit conditions tightened.

LaoPo

If " the Bill " finally passes on Friday, is that meant to change conditions to help to change these figures do you think?

It might bring some short positive confidence-kick into the markets but I fear that confidence in general and the overall pessimistic feeling amongst people (buyers) in the world won't bring back sales onto the level from last year.

But that's not just for car sales; it's for everything.

Manufacturers in China*** are very worried and I foresee a sharp decline in growth for the next 6-12 months, possibly longer; still a PLUS in growth, but declining.

*** but also in Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand....Japanese car builders' shares dropped steep today in fear of a recession in the US and EU/UK and the enormous drop in car sales in those parts of the world.

This trend will continue into other industries as well and the Bail Out of $700 Billion will help restore confidence...a little, but by far not enough.

The growth in car sales in Brazil, Russia, India and China cannot make up for the losses in the other parts and thus the sales in those countries will drop also in a few months from now.

LaoPo

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

if some frustrated poor boy thinks that mentioning an important fact like tax savings in a discussion "why do you live in Thailand?" is "flaunting wealth in an obscure way" i can only smile. what is there to defend?

Where did you get the idea I was poor?

siamamerican 2006-02-19 14:00:01

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

siamamerican 2006-02-22 13:43:50

I'm not ready to retire (nor have the money), and probably need the structure work brings to my life.

Getting an EFL cert and teaching English would keep me from dipping too much into my savings while looking for better employment opportunities.

Working in Thailand, making $1,500-$2,000 a month would be preferred over my current situation. If I save $300,000 before I make the move, I could invest the money and with any luck double it in 10 years.

you asked for it

...Oh dear...

LaoPo

Look at the bright side Siam you have 25 years to catch up with Naam.

[lannarebirth]

If only they could have held out another week, i'm sure Lord paulson might have thrown a couple of hundred thousand their way:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_on_.../odd_cheap_home

[LaoPo]

If only they could have held out another week, i'm sure Lord paulson might have thrown a couple of hundred thousand their way:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_on_.../odd_cheap_home

why didn't you bring an offer LR.....would have been a nice Pied-à-terre if you visit the US .....just a bit of cleaning up in the backyard and.....finished.

Not too bad: $ 1,75 for a house; taxes are probably higher

LaoPo

[midas]

if some frustrated poor boy thinks that mentioning an important fact like tax savings in a discussion "why do you live in Thailand?" is "flaunting wealth in an obscure way" i can only smile. what is there to defend?

Where did you get the idea I was poor?

siamamerican 2006-02-19 14:00:01

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

siamamerican 2006-02-22 13:43:50

I'm not ready to retire (nor have the money), and probably need the structure work brings to my life.

Getting an EFL cert and teaching English would keep me from dipping too much into my savings while looking for better employment opportunities.

Working in Thailand, making $1,500-$2,000 a month would be preferred over my current situation. If I save $300,000 before I make the move, I could invest the money and with any luck double it in 10 years.

you asked for it

So much for the Great American Dream eh siam ?

[flying]

If " the Bill " finally passes on Friday, is that meant to change conditions to help to change these figures do you think?

Funny watching TV this morning many congress are saying they have not seen this credit crunch per se' in their districts

They also say much of these funds will never see FDIC banks?? Maybe that is why Senate is proposed to raise the FDIC limit to 250k each depositor?

These same congressmen say they hate the idea because teh way it works is much $$$ gets pulled from banks that virtually do not have this toxic waste problem.

It does seem the bail may pass but it will not be a slam dunk I think. Also judging by the markets this morning they are not certain either.

[ace]

Dow 10,482.53 -348.54 (-3.22%)

Nasdaq 1,976.72 -92.68 (-4.48%)

S&P 500 1,114.42 -46.64 (-4.02%)

This isn't funny anymore.

[ace]

Really, not funny:

DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE... .DJI 10,482.85 -348.22 (-3.22%)

ETFS GOLD ETFS GOLD BULL 11.63* -0.53 (-4.36%)

Are they eating money - fleeing to cash to face devaluation in preference to even Gold?

[flying]

Dow 10,482.53 -348.54 (-3.22%)

Nasdaq 1,976.72 -92.68 (-4.48%)

S&P 500 1,114.42 -46.64 (-4.02%)

This isn't funny anymore.

They agree

Jump

[LaoPo]

Dow 10,482.53 -348.54 (-3.22%)

Nasdaq 1,976.72 -92.68 (-4.48%)

S&P 500 1,114.42 -46.64 (-4.02%)

This isn't funny anymore.

They agree

Jump

That link is from September 27th, 2008 ..so, how can they agree with a drop on the stockmarket a week later ?

I'm puzzled.

LaoPo

[flying]

That link is from September 27th, 2008 ..so, how can they agree with a drop on the stockmarket a week later ?

I'm puzzled.

LaoPo

Hahah

No I mean they agree that this situation is not funny & most Americans are pissed.

[LaoPo]

That link is from September 27th, 2008 ..so, how can they agree with a drop on the stockmarket a week later ?

I'm puzzled.

LaoPo

Hahah

No I mean they agree that this situation is not funny & most Americans are pissed.

maybe they shouldn't drink so much ?

LaoPo

[flying]

That link is from September 27th, 2008 ..so, how can they agree with a drop on the stockmarket a week later ?

I'm puzzled.

LaoPo

Hahah

No I mean they agree that this situation is not funny & most Americans are pissed.

maybe they shouldn't drink so much ?

LaoPo

hahahah Sorry language slip up.

Here in America pissed means Angry

In the UK... ( I think ) it means drunk yes?

[LaoPo]

That link is from September 27th, 2008 ..so, how can they agree with a drop on the stockmarket a week later ?

I'm puzzled.

LaoPo

Hahah

No I mean they agree that this situation is not funny & most Americans are pissed.

maybe they shouldn't drink so much ?

LaoPo

hahahah Sorry language slip up.

Here in America pissed means Angry

In the UK... ( I think ) it means drunk yes?

I was joking ...I understand both 'slangs' but I'm not British nor American.

LaoPo

[RetireSoon]

Sure the greedy bankers shorting and the like to drive the market are to blame, however I saw a guy interveiwed on TV on Monday he lived near Staten Island I think.

"Reporter so how has it affected you"

"Real bad I too a mortgage on this place and the interest rate has risen 20% so I lose my home"

I know there are tragic cases, but some of the financially inept and I dont mean the poorly paid I mean inept who earn well but want a lifestyle higher than they decent earnings, these guys need to take some personal responsibilty.

I do hope its sorted out soon as people are very depressed in the UK and its not nice

[lordofdelusion]

Sure the greedy bankers shorting and the like to drive the market are to blame, however I saw a guy interveiwed on TV on Monday he lived near Staten Island I think.

"Reporter so how has it affected you"

"Real bad I too a mortgage on this place and the interest rate has risen 20% so I lose my home"

I know there are tragic cases, but some of the financially inept and I dont mean the poorly paid I mean inept who earn well but want a lifestyle higher than they decent earnings, these guys need to take some personal responsibilty.

I do hope its sorted out soon as people are very depressed in the UK and its not nice

Americans need a crash course on financial responsibility. I say this as an American. We are not educated as to money matters but we are taught to consume. It is a sad state. At the same time there are those greedy and evil who are happy to take advantage of the uneducated consumer. House loan going up 20%? I'm not surprised.

[lannarebirth]

Sure the greedy bankers shorting and the like to drive the market are to blame, however I saw a guy interveiwed on TV on Monday he lived near Staten Island I think.

"Reporter so how has it affected you"

"Real bad I too a mortgage on this place and the interest rate has risen 20% so I lose my home"

I know there are tragic cases, but some of the financially inept and I dont mean the poorly paid I mean inept who earn well but want a lifestyle higher than they decent earnings, these guys need to take some personal responsibilty.

I do hope its sorted out soon as people are very depressed in the UK and its not nice

Americans need a crash course on financial responsibility. I say this as an American. We are not educated as to money matters but we are taught to consume. It is a sad state. At the same time there are those greedy and evil who are happy to take advantage of the uneducated consumer. House loan going up 20%? I'm not surprised.

First step IMO, is to stop calling yourselves consumers and start to call yourself citizens again. I think it changes the perspective on everything.

[Naam]

Americans need a crash course on financial responsibility. I say this as an American. We are not educated as to money matters but we are taught to consume. It is a sad state. At the same time there are those greedy and evil who are happy to take advantage of the uneducated consumer. House loan going up 20%? I'm not surprised.

that might be the case. but don't forget that the appetite of consumers drives a good part of the U.S. economy. what is needed is to find a healthy equilibrium of consumption, perhaps a bit more saving AND finally realising what exactly the prices of goods are Americans buy. when i bought my first car in 1989 i was asking "how much?" the answer was "349.99" (i am making that up because i don't remember the exact answer). after several attempts the salesman told me that we have to go out and look at the stickers because cars come in different packages and therefore the price differs but as they are on stock the monthly financing rate is the same. he then was sort of flabbergasted when i told him i want to buy a car for my wife and pay for it. with real money. cash down. no financing but the car has to be ordered in a specific colour and with a specific package

similar experiences i had with my former neighbours (half of them well off, half of them not). asking for the prices of their cars, their ride-on lawn mowers or their big screen TVs was futile. they only knew how much per month and that each and everything was a special offer with huge discount.

[LaoPo]

similar experiences i had with my former neighbours (half of them well off, half of them not). asking for the prices of their cars, their ride-on lawn mowers or their big screen TVs was futile. they only knew how much per month and that each and everything was a special offer with huge discount.

...and THAT...says it all.

A completely sick society; it's like a huge tree with three hundred Million branches and a few thousand branche-shops where the 300 Million branches go for a loan/mortgage/credit card to "feed" themselves and each branch loans to and from the other.

HOWEVER...this particular tree is called the USA but, unlike all other trees, this tree has just ONE ROOT:

Washington DC...

...and this ONE ROOT steps in a plane and flies to the Middle East, Moscow, Tokyo and Beijing to beg for money because otherwise they are not even capable to finance and pay for the $700 Billion (plus+plus..) Bail Out...if voted for, Friday October 3.

...it's that sick and there are no Doctors to cure the patient because the patient AND the doctors are too stubborn and do not want to listen to the sickness causes.......

That's why the patient becomes sicker and sicker....

....and that's why these amounts*** will grow and grow...but will it cure the patient from it's long term sickness ?

*** http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

LaoPo

[Naam]

A completely sick society

but they make nice neighbours.

[LaoPo]

A completely sick society

but they make nice neighbours.

If you're the neighbour of Arnold Schwarzenegger....just heard he needs a few Billion also because California is almost bankrupt....

I will take care of it...

LaoPo

[lordofdelusion]

Americans need a crash course on financial responsibility. I say this as an American. We are not educated as to money matters but we are taught to consume. It is a sad state. At the same time there are those greedy and evil who are happy to take advantage of the uneducated consumer. House loan going up 20%? I'm not surprised.

that might be the case. but don't forget that the appetite of consumers drives a good part of the U.S. economy. what is needed is to find a healthy equilibrium of consumption, perhaps a bit more saving AND finally realising what exactly the prices of goods are Americans buy. when i bought my first car in 1989 i was asking "how much?" the answer was "349.99" (i am making that up because i don't remember the exact answer). after several attempts the salesman told me that we have to go out and look at the stickers because cars come in different packages and therefore the price differs but as they are on stock the monthly financing rate is the same. he then was sort of flabbergasted when i told him i want to buy a car for my wife and pay for it. with real money. cash down. no financing but the car has to be ordered in a specific colour and with a specific package

similar experiences i had with my former neighbours (half of them well off, half of them not). asking for the prices of their cars, their ride-on lawn mowers or their big screen TVs was futile. they only knew how much per month and that each and everything was a special offer with huge discount.

Yes, we are a consumer driven economy. That is the problem. We don't make much anymore. What we consume drives the economies of China, Japan, Korea, Tawain and many others. I have been gone from the US over 2 years now and much of my past life seems very odd now. You are right about the monthly payment thing. Never mind can you afford it. Can you afford the monthly payment? No? Well then we can extend the payments out over 7 years instead of 6. How about a super low payment for 59 months and then a huge balloon payment for number 60? Teaser rates. Resets. Credit card offers coming in the mail at the rate of 10 a week. I once had 22 credit cards in a box in my kitchen cupboard. They wanted me to have them, so I took them. I thought of it as my mad money. If I was ever diagnosed with a terminal illness, I was off on a spending spree. Never used them fortunatley but many other people did use their cards and all to the max. Why? Because they "needed" stuff. Funny how so much of the world gets by without the stuff we were told we "needed"

[flying]

Looks like the bail out is passing this time

[ace]

................similar experiences i had with my former neighbours (half of them well off, half of them not). asking for the prices of their cars, their ride-on lawn mowers or their big screen TVs was futile. they only knew how much per month and that each and everything was a special offer with huge discount.

But that's just stupid. Me and my friends (some American) and family would know how much their car or TV or washing machine cost (I am not American). I mean I know a few people who have difficulty with working out credit card costs and frankly (don't tell 'em) I think even not knowing that is a bit stupid but are you saying "Joe Sixpack USA" has no clue? I have always defended Americans (I have met many smart Amercans, outside America) against my European friends' criticism, maybe I should start agreeing!

[midas]

We don't make much anymore. What we consume drives the economies of China, Japan, Korea, Tawain and many others.

Quite ! So what is there left ? USA is a country that was meant to be destined for greater things -perhaps being able to rely

on innovative work opportunities with specialist skills? But partly because of all the wasted money fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan standards

in schools have slipped dramatically. And while schoolchildren in China equipped with desktop PCs in their classroom

and are furiously learning English or other languages to compete globally, are there any foreign languages being taught in American schoolrooms?

As far as I know they don't even teach Spanish to American children as a second language which I would have thought could be a good investment

for the future in somewhere like California.

Edited October 4, 2008 by midas

[LaoPo]

We don't make much anymore. What we consume drives the economies of China, Japan, Korea, Tawain and many others.

Quite ! So what is there left ? USA is a country that was meant to be destined for greater things -perhaps being able to rely

on innovative work opportunities with specialist skills? But partly because of all the wasted money fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan standards

in schools have slipped dramatically. And while schoolchildren in China equipped with desktop PCs in their classroom

and are furiously learning English or other languages to compete globally, are there any foreign languages being taught in American schoolrooms?

As far as I know they don't even teach Spanish to American children as a second language which I would have thought could be a good investment

for the future in somewhere like California.

I agree with -even obligatory- teaching Spanish and Chinese as well; it would give the US an advantage and lead over Europe***, especially what Chinese is concerned. The future is East, not West.

Apart from that I would like to comment on lordofdelusion's sentence:

although the quote "What we consume drives the economies of China, Japan, Korea, Tawain and many others" in itself is true it is also a fact that these countries just produced what the West (US/EU/OZ/NZ) wanted them to produce...and still do to the largest part of production.

Those countries NEVER started to invent new products in order to send their salespeople oversees to sell...NO, the consuming countries sent their buyers to those countries to have them produce what they wanted.

That's a fact.

*** many Europeans speak already at least one foreign language.

LaoPo