Thailand Is Fourth Favorite Country To Unnaturally Die Abroad For Americans

[suiging]

Where's the "happens everywhere in the world" brigade?

I thought death did ??

[TheExpat]

One of the deaths was reported as "other accident - fall" in Pattaya. Not sure what that means as it did not specify if fall meant from the 23rd floor of a hotel room balcony or he fell down drunk on the walking street

[TokyoT]

I am a bit surprised by Thailand being ranked so high (even if you deduct the Tsunami deaths they only fall one spot).

Mexico being number 1 is no surprise what so ever, nor was Iraq being at the top of the list (considering the inclusion of terrorist attacks). I also expected Germany to be in the top 5 because of the large US military presence – but with that in mind I am pretty amazed by the low number of deaths in Korea.

I was also not surprised by Costa Rica – but I was surprised by the Dominican Republic. Last time I was in DR in the 10 days I was there I only met a handful of Americans, and only two at my resort. Pretty much everyone else was from Europe.

[greenwanderer108]

Seeing, that no one has yet revealed detailed government given statistics of their subjects' fatalities abroad, particularly in Thailand, call me Biased, but I'd like to offer my gratitude to the US Department of State (US Ministry of Foreign Affairs) for revealing and publishing that which seems no other government has yet thought of or dares to publish online (with the exception being the UK with their British behavior abroad report, which was still much more narrow and less detailed than the US reports)

Or am I just too lazy to follow through with the search engine manipulation to surface the dirt...help me out guys, surely you're just as resourceful if not more than I...

[roietjimmy]

That is very interesting. I would never have thought that Thailand would even be in the top 20!, but 4th? Clearly something disproportionate here. Even more interesting would be of those totals, how many died in Pattaya.

The OP was pretty close. I have looked at the source data which records "unnatural" deaths for US Citizens Abroad, July 1, 2004 thru June 30, 2007. I removed "death from disaster" (tsunami), the top 20 are:

636 Mexico, 141 Iraq, 86 Costa Rica, 70 Germany, 65 Thailand, 51 Dominican Republic, 48 China, 43 Philippines, 42 Honduras, 41 Spain, 37 Italy, 34 Australia, 34 Canada, 33 Bahamas, 29 Brazil, 28 Columbia, 28 Guatamala, 26 France, 26 Jamaica, 25 Great Britain.

Of the 65 deaths in Thailand:

15 Bangkok, 13 Chonburi/Pattaya, 7 Chiangmai, 7 Phuket, 5 Surathani,

3 Nongkai, 2 Chiangrai, 2 Lopburi, 2 Nakorn Ratchasima, 2 Udorn Thani, 1 Buriram, 1 Ratchaburi, 1 Samut Prakorn, 1 Saraburi, 1 Songkla, 1 Trang, 1 Ubon Ratchathani.

Cause of death in Thailand:

15 Suicide, 12 Motorcycle accident, 7 Homicide, 6 Drowning, 6 Auto accident, 5 Drug related, 3 Maritime accident, 3 Other accident, 2 Other accident (fall), 2 Vehicle accident (other), 2 Vehicle accident (pedestrian), 1 Vehicle accident (train), 1 Terrorist action.

Edited October 1, 2007 by roietjimmy

[keemapoot]

That is very interesting. I would never have thought that Thailand would even be in the top 20!, but 4th? Clearly something disproportionate here. Even more interesting would be of those totals, how many died in Pattaya.

The OP was pretty close. I have looked at the source data which records "unnatural" deaths for US Citizens Abroad, July 1, 2004 thru June 30, 2007. I removed "death from disaster" (tsunami), the top 20 are:

636 Mexico, 141 Iraq, 86 Costa Rica, 70 Germany, 65 Thailand, 51 Dominican Republic, 48 China, 43 Philippines, 42 Honduras, 41 Spain, 37 Italy, 34 Australia, 34 Canada, 33 Bahamas, 29 Brazil, 28 Columbia, 28 Guatamala, 26 France, 26 Jamaica, 25 Great Britain.

Of the 65 deaths in Thailand:

15 Bangkok, 13 Chonburi/Pattaya, 7 Chiangmai, 7 Phuket, 5 Surathani,

3 Nongkai, 2 Chiangrai, 2 Lopburi, 2 Nakorn Ratchasima, 2 Udorn Thani, 1 Buriram, 1 Ratchaburi, 1 Samut Prakorn, 1 Saraburi, 1 Songkla, 1 Trang, 1 Ubon Ratchathani.

Cause of death in Thailand:

15 Suicide, 12 Motorcycle accident, 7 Homocide, 6 Drowning, 6 Auto accident, 5 Drug related, 3 Maritime accident, 3 Other accident, 2 Other accident (fall), 2 Vehicle accident (other), 2 Vehicle accident (pedestrian), 1 Vehicle accident (train), 1 Terrorist action.

I appreciate your quantitative analysis earlier. Thanks for that. I guess the surprise for me is that expressed by others earlier. Completely unscientific, but it just seems as though there aren't that many Americans in Thailand. You do meet some, but they seem far and few between.

[roietjimmy]

That is very interesting. I would never have thought that Thailand would even be in the top 20!, but 4th? Clearly something disproportionate here. Even more interesting would be of those totals, how many died in Pattaya.

The OP was pretty close. I have looked at the source data which records "unnatural" deaths for US Citizens Abroad, July 1, 2004 thru June 30, 2007. I removed "death from disaster" (tsunami), the top 20 are:

636 Mexico, 141 Iraq, 86 Costa Rica, 70 Germany, 65 Thailand, 51 Dominican Republic, 48 China, 43 Philippines, 42 Honduras, 41 Spain, 37 Italy, 34 Australia, 34 Canada, 33 Bahamas, 29 Brazil, 28 Columbia, 28 Guatamala, 26 France, 26 Jamaica, 25 Great Britain.

Of the 65 deaths in Thailand:

15 Bangkok, 13 Chonburi/Pattaya, 7 Chiangmai, 7 Phuket, 5 Surathani,

3 Nongkai, 2 Chiangrai, 2 Lopburi, 2 Nakorn Ratchasima, 2 Udorn Thani, 1 Buriram, 1 Ratchaburi, 1 Samut Prakorn, 1 Saraburi, 1 Songkla, 1 Trang, 1 Ubon Ratchathani.

Cause of death in Thailand:

15 Suicide, 12 Motorcycle accident, 7 Homocide, 6 Drowning, 6 Auto accident, 5 Drug related, 3 Maritime accident, 3 Other accident, 2 Other accident (fall), 2 Vehicle accident (other), 2 Vehicle accident (pedestrian), 1 Vehicle accident (train), 1 Terrorist action.

I appreciate your quantitative analysis earlier. Thanks for that. I guess the surprise for me is that expressed by others earlier. Completely unscientific, but it just seems as though there aren't that many Americans in Thailand. You do meet some, but they seem far and few between.

I suppose it's scientific in that it is probably accurate as it applies to US Citizen deaths. When I first saw it, I like you was skeptical so decided to check it out. What one can extrapolate about the safeness of Thailand from this is of question. Personally, it sure won't be having me running out of the country.

Edited October 1, 2007 by roietjimmy

[chiang mai]

Hmm, Below is the link showing the number of deaths (and other stats) for Brits around the world and it seems that in the period of review (2004/5) some 254 Brits died in Thailand (excluding Tsunami fatalities). Interesting to note that of all the countries surveyed Thailand shows 254 deaths against 800,000 visits. The only other tourist destination for Brits with a higher death rate was France with 294 deaths but that being against some 15,000,000 visits. If the stats are to be believed then Thailand is not a particularly safe place for Brits.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagena...d=1156397845776

[roietjimmy]

Hmm, Below is the link showing the number of deaths (and other stats) for Brits around the world and it seems that in the period of review (2004/5) some 254 Brits died in Thailand (excluding Tsunami fatalities). Interesting to note that of all the countries surveyed Thailand shows 254 deaths against 800,000 visits. The only other tourist destination for Brits with a higher death rate was France with 294 deaths but that being against some 15,000,000 visits. If the stats are to be believed then Thailand is not a particularly safe place for Brits.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagena...d=1156397845776

Thanks for the link. Even though the figures include all deaths rather than only "unnatural" deaths for Americans, it does seem Brits die in Thailand at a far greater rate than Yanks. 65 deaths in 4 years for Yanks vs 254 in one year for Brits is incredible even when considering there are twice as many Brits visiting.

[greenwanderer108]

I wonder how many of the suicides were questionable... after all Homicide is no good as far as TAT is concerned, and even moreso unsolved homicides gives a bad rep to boys in brown. Even solved homicides here are questionable considering the evidence is often simply a signed confession.

That said, I'm not worried about becoming part of the list via suicide or homicide...but always frightens me to think how easy it is to die on a motorbike... Someone reassure me that most such deaths could have been avoided by safer and smarter driving by the victim... and please try to avoid offering urban legends about how some friend of a friend of a friend was safely driving 60 kph in the shoulder and out of nowhere a drunk 10 wheeler came from the opposite direction killing the motorcyclist...

All such motorcycle accidents, fatal and non fatal, I've been aware of in Thailand were usually caused by speeding (particularly in dangerous conditions i.e. turns, slippery rainy road, etc.) and alcohol on part of the motorcyclist. If anyone has an account of a motorcyclist who was killed that could not have avoided his/her fate whatsoever (i.e. driving on a shoulder at safe speed in normal conditions) please share also.

[greenwanderer108]

65 deaths in 4 years for Yanks vs 254 in one year for Brits is incredible even when considering there are twice as many Brits visiting.

The 65 deaths you're quoting is excluding 20 or so Tsunami deaths while the 274 Brits from the source includes Tsunami deaths, which I believe was somewhere close to 200 deaths in Thailand...

Oh, and one more thing, the deaths of the link above is all deaths while the American number is only unnatural deaths.

For comparison sakes, the unnatural deaths of Brits in that year minus Tsunami is probably more like circa 30... Where in the same period, Americans were aprox. 20...considering there were twice as many Brits in that year than Yanks as you say, looks like Americans could be dropping at a faster rate...

I'm no expert though.

[roietjimmy]

I wonder how many of the suicides were questionable... after all Homicide is no good as far as TAT is concerned, and even moreso unsolved homicides gives a bad rep to boys in brown. Even solved homicides here are questionable considering the evidence is often simply a signed confession.

Yes suicide vs homicide numbers are way out of proportion. This happens in the land of "insufficient evidence".

[keemapoot]

I wonder how many of the suicides were questionable... after all Homicide is no good as far as TAT is concerned, and even moreso unsolved homicides gives a bad rep to boys in brown. Even solved homicides here are questionable considering the evidence is often simply a signed confession.

Yes suicide vs homicide numbers are way out of proportion. This happens in the land of "insufficient evidence".

This 'suicide as the cause of death' issue becomes even more interesting if you examine that in Thailand it accounts for 18.5% of all non natural deaths, whereas, in the US, (after just a quick google, don't hold me to this) the nationwide rate for suicide, including all causes of death is just 1.3%. Yes, it does seem that Thailand is indeed a "favorite country to commit suicide."

[roietjimmy]

65 deaths in 4 years for Yanks vs 254 in one year for Brits is incredible even when considering there are twice as many Brits visiting.

The 65 deaths you're quoting is excluding 20 or so Tsunami deaths while the 274 Brits from the source includes Tsunami deaths, which I believe was somewhere close to 200 deaths in Thailand...

Oh, and one more thing, the deaths of the link above is all deaths while the American number is only unnatural deaths.

For comparison sakes, the unnatural deaths of Brits in that year minus Tsunami is probably more like circa 30... Where in the same period, Americans were aprox. 20...considering there were twice as many Brits in that year than Yanks as you say, looks like Americans could be dropping at a faster rate...

I'm no expert though.

I have a proposal. Let's join up and see what "statistical" data we can pull together to do a comparison of death rates vs nationality in Thailand. It seems we both have an interest and just maybe we can come up with a definative comparison. I have the feeling, with all factors considered, in the end, we will likely find that the differences are insignificant.

[jackspratt]

"Thailand Is Fourth Favorite Country To Unnaturally Die Abroad"

Is "favorite" the best terminology for places to die?

Was thinking the same thing OC

I had a picture in my mind of Americans thinking before they booked their overseas ticket:

"Now where would I like to be if I am going to die unnaturally while I am away.

Mexico - yeah, it's my favorite, but I was there last year.

Iraq - boy I haven't been there, but I might wait for a bit longer.

Costa Rico - a bit hot around this time of the year, wait till late spring.

Now where else is there?

Thailand - sounds perfect. Good food, great weather, friendly natives, Buddhist cremations available".

[chiang mai]

65 deaths in 4 years for Yanks vs 254 in one year for Brits is incredible even when considering there are twice as many Brits visiting.

The 65 deaths you're quoting is excluding 20 or so Tsunami deaths while the 274 Brits from the source includes Tsunami deaths, which I believe was somewhere close to 200 deaths in Thailand...

Oh, and one more thing, the deaths of the link above is all deaths while the American number is only unnatural deaths.

For comparison sakes, the unnatural deaths of Brits in that year minus Tsunami is probably more like circa 30... Where in the same period, Americans were aprox. 20...considering there were twice as many Brits in that year than Yanks as you say, looks like Americans could be dropping at a faster rate...

I'm no expert though.

I have a proposal. Let's join up and see what "statistical" data we can pull together to do a comparison of death rates vs nationality in Thailand. It seems we both have an interest and just maybe we can come up with a definative comparison. I have the feeling, with all factors considered, in the end, we will likely find that the differences are insignificant.

I have a better idea, why don't we just ignore all smart arse irrelevant posts?

[greenwanderer108]

I have a proposal. Let's join up and see what "statistical" data we can pull together to do a comparison of death rates vs nationality in Thailand. It seems we both have an interest and just maybe we can come up with a definative comparison. I have the feeling, with all factors considered, in the end, we will likely find that the differences are insignificant.

Might require some people on the inside to get some of the info for certain countries...

This link posted earlier was the so far the most complete in comparing such statistics for LOS, though the data is from 2003:

Of the more than 9.7 million tourists who visited Thailand last year, British citizens hold the record for the highest number of fatalities at a number of 148, followed by 137 tourists from the United States, 120 from Germany and 73 from Japan.

In 2003, the ten most important foreign embassies in Thailand representing less than half of the foreign tourists visiting Thailand reported 595 fatalities resulting in loss pf life.

While the causes vary, Japanese visiting Thailand have the highest suicide rate with 13 of its citizens taking their owb lifes in 2003 while taking vacation in Thailand, motorbike accidents, alcohol and the (in)famous Viagra impotency drug are the biggest fatality causes among European, Australian and American tourists to Thailand.

I imagine who ever wrote that article must have contacted the embassies directly, formally... That would be a start because I highly doubt other governments / embassies are going to be as generous as US / UK for openly publishing stats online...or perhaps they are and their officials aren't SEO armed...