Crestor And Frozen Shoulder

[chiang mai]

I take 10mg of Crestor daily to combat high cholesterol levels and have been doing so for one year. Whilst I've never suffered any side effects from using Crestor I did come down with a hugely painful Frozen Shoulder about four months ago. Lots of pain, lots of physio and thanks to an excellent chiropractor I am now on the road to recovery and am largely pain free. If you search the web on the subject of frozen shoulder you'll find lots of similar stories but one I read recently made me stop and think. The article (which I later found to be supported by other articles from different sources) said that the use of cholesterol lowering drugs such as Crestor depletes the body of CoQ10 which is vital for the growth and maintenance of tendons and the like. In the UK Crestor is not prescribed for this reason and there is a requirement that only cholesterol lowering drugs containing CoQ10 can be prescribed. The articles went on to draw a direct link between the absence of CoQ10 and frozen shoulder and this raises many questions:

1) Has anyone come across this association before and if so, what were your conclusions.

2) has anyone ever heard of the significance of CoQ10 in relationship to cholesterol lowering drugs and if so, what can you add.

I recognise that the market for drugs such as Crestor is highly competitive and is worth something in the order of USD $24 bill a year hence there are many self servings articles out there and many paid "professional" viewpoints to be had. Any first hand experiences anyone?

[geriatrickid]

This is one drug I know very well. The 10mg dose you are receiving should not produce this effect on its own. What I suggest you do is as follows;

1. Make a list of all the medications you are taking. (Include anything you have taken including OTC pain relievers, antacids such as Tums, Rolaids malox, etc.)

2. Make a list of all physical injuries you have sustained in your torso and shoulder such as deep tissue injuries, breaks etc.

3. Make a list of all existing medical conditions.

Then sit down with your doctor and show him or her these lists and discuss them. The ailment you are experiencing may be due to a drug interaction or a pre-existing condition. I am assuming you are caucasian and not asian or african. This is a drug that has race specific results. (e.g. asians can take a smaller dose and enjoy the same benefits as caucasians that require a greater dose.)

As a general comment, it is not uncommon to see some patients treated by one doctor for a chronic condition requiring lopinavir /ritonavir to also be treated by another physician that prescribes Crestor. Neither doctor is aware of the other's prescriptions. (Hence the need for a common pharmacist that can usually identify the contradicting medications.)

Please do not change your medication on your own without consulting your doctor. Don't be shy in making your concerns know. And if the doctor seems clueless, see another physician. Some doctors rely on the pharma reps for education and don't completely read the product monographs themselves.

Statins are truly a miracle life saver for millions of people and if prescribed properly can add many years of life to people that would otherwise be doomed to an early death by heart disease.

As an aside, a chiropractor can worsen a medical problem. For prevention and effective treatment please consider the services of a physiotherapist in conjunction with your physician.

[cobra]

I've also been on Crestor ~ one year, have not noticed any issues, nor did my GP mention any possible connection related to your current problem(s).

My doc also never misses an opportunity to mention that if I'd just drop a few lbs and exercise once in a while I could probably get off several meds, ((bp, cholesterol), ah yeah doc, I'm working on that, now give me my pills ...

[ignoramus]

I'm new, & not 100% certain this'll go where I want it to. It's for chiangmai and geriatrickid (both worthies), with reference to statins, co-enzyme Q10, and frozen shoulder. First, I'm in Sydney, and I listen to radio 2GB (2gb.com) mostly. A very smart Brian Wilshire has the longest-running (27+years) talkback show in OZ, from 9pm local time (4 hrs ahead as of end Oct). He's had calls and emails from around the world. His longtime Tue night (9pm) guest is Russell Setright, who, though an independent 'practitioner', 'spruiks' for Blackmore's on show (it being show's sponsor). He's smart too - there's no drug/procedure he hasn't heard of. RS has mentioned that there is one statin drug which also contains Co-enzyme Q10 - I forget name. Anyway, he's said to take Q10 along with statins, as depletion does occur. Re frozen shoulder: Brian W had it, and was told by a couple of docs it needed an op. Couldn't lift arm high. Now does push-ups etc. I understand the 'saviour' was lyprinol (contains NZ green-lipped mussel extract). Glucosamine and chondroitin have been mentioned but I can't elaborate(one is good for knees). Brian W is emailable via 2gb.com - just before show starts is probably best time (for health queries). RS has written a couple of health books. If I abandon this msg on 'standby' and check sites, I may be unable to return so FWIW: re statins, a controversial site is thincs.org, and for general stuff, I think blackmore(s).com.au is useful, though don't KNOW. Don't know if RS has a site, though he'd be on google. Geriatrickid - don't know how to get back to " elfe ", but he's OK by me if he cares for our 4-footed friends. (+ my email tells me that U responded to my post, but when I clk on link I just get a posts-list screen. I remain unperturbed tho', as am just trying to be helpful). Cheers.

[chiang mai]

This is one drug I know very well. The 10mg dose you are receiving should not produce this effect on its own. What I suggest you do is as follows;

1. Make a list of all the medications you are taking. (Include anything you have taken including OTC pain relievers, antacids such as Tums, Rolaids malox, etc.)

2. Make a list of all physical injuries you have sustained in your torso and shoulder such as deep tissue injuries, breaks etc.

3. Make a list of all existing medical conditions.

Then sit down with your doctor and show him or her these lists and discuss them. The ailment you are experiencing may be due to a drug interaction or a pre-existing condition. I am assuming you are caucasian and not asian or african. This is a drug that has race specific results. (e.g. asians can take a smaller dose and enjoy the same benefits as caucasians that require a greater dose.)

As a general comment, it is not uncommon to see some patients treated by one doctor for a chronic condition requiring lopinavir /ritonavir to also be treated by another physician that prescribes Crestor. Neither doctor is aware of the other's prescriptions. (Hence the need for a common pharmacist that can usually identify the contradicting medications.)

Please do not change your medication on your own without consulting your doctor. Don't be shy in making your concerns know. And if the doctor seems clueless, see another physician. Some doctors rely on the pharma reps for education and don't completely read the product monographs themselves.

Statins are truly a miracle life saver for millions of people and if prescribed properly can add many years of life to people that would otherwise be doomed to an early death by heart disease.

As an aside, a chiropractor can worsen a medical problem. For prevention and effective treatment please consider the services of a physiotherapist in conjunction with your physician.

All good advice and I've already done much of what you recommend, with the exception of sitting down with a doctor to discuss and I will do that soon. Since there are no other medications involved and no injuries, I'm trying to learn more about the possible CoQ10 link and in doing so I've discovered a camp of opinion that does not feel the same way about Protease Inhibitors as do you and I. The "anti" camp makes all kinds of links between PI use and a range of ailments and some serious conditions. I'm not sure why the camp exists but it;s probably worth me learning more so I can make an informed judgment.

As for Chiropractors, I'm afraid I am a big believer although I recognize the potential risk. Many years ago I was diagnosed with two prolapsed disks and surgeons wanted to perform a disectomy - I saw the MRI of the ruptured disks and had been bedridden for many weeks. Three days before the op I hobbled into a Chiropractors office in great pain and left there a well man 45 minutes later, never had a problem since.

Edited October 14, 2007 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

I'm new, & not 100% certain this'll go where I want it to. It's for chiangmai and geriatrickid (both worthies), with reference to statins, co-enzyme Q10, and frozen shoulder. First, I'm in Sydney, and I listen to radio 2GB (2gb.com) mostly. A very smart Brian Wilshire has the longest-running (27+years) talkback show in OZ, from 9pm local time (4 hrs ahead as of end Oct). He's had calls and emails from around the world. His longtime Tue night (9pm) guest is Russell Setright, who, though an independent 'practitioner', 'spruiks' for Blackmore's on show (it being show's sponsor). He's smart too - there's no drug/procedure he hasn't heard of. RS has mentioned that there is one statin drug which also contains Co-enzyme Q10 - I forget name. Anyway, he's said to take Q10 along with statins, as depletion does occur. Re frozen shoulder: Brian W had it, and was told by a couple of docs it needed an op. Couldn't lift arm high. Now does push-ups etc. I understand the 'saviour' was lyprinol (contains NZ green-lipped mussel extract). Glucosamine and chondroitin have been mentioned but I can't elaborate(one is good for knees). Brian W is emailable via 2gb.com - just before show starts is probably best time (for health queries). RS has written a couple of health books. If I abandon this msg on 'standby' and check sites, I may be unable to return so FWIW: re statins, a controversial site is thincs.org, and for general stuff, I think blackmore(s).com.au is useful, though don't KNOW. Don't know if RS has a site, though he'd be on google. Geriatrickid - don't know how to get back to " elfe ", but he's OK by me if he cares for our 4-footed friends. (+ my email tells me that U responded to my post, but when I clk on link I just get a posts-list screen. I remain unperturbed tho', as am just trying to be helpful). Cheers.

Thanks for all of that, I'll give it a shot.

[Eddiee]

I suffered from Frozen Shoulder about 3 months ago, I was stretching for something and all of a sudden wack the biggest pain I have ever had, couldnt sleep due to the pain.

I am pretty fit (got my own mini gym in my room) so not sure if there is any link between cholesterol levels and frozen shoulder or not (leave that to the docs to decide) however I did not have any medical treatment (only what i read on the internet) I continued to exercise on a daily basis and the pain subsided after about 1 month....my arm is now back to 100%.

I did find a website stating that frozen shoulder could be linked to an injury caused in earlier years, which I did have when exercising approx 4 years before I had ripped a tenon in my shoulder area.

[Tammi]

This is one drug I know very well. The 10mg dose you are receiving should not produce this effect on its own. What I suggest you do is as follows;

1. Make a list of all the medications you are taking. (Include anything you have taken including OTC pain relievers, antacids such as Tums, Rolaids malox, etc.)

2. Make a list of all physical injuries you have sustained in your torso and shoulder such as deep tissue injuries, breaks etc.

3. Make a list of all existing medical conditions.

Then sit down with your doctor and show him or her these lists and discuss them. The ailment you are experiencing may be due to a drug interaction or a pre-existing condition. I am assuming you are caucasian and not asian or african. This is a drug that has race specific results. (e.g. asians can take a smaller dose and enjoy the same benefits as caucasians that require a greater dose.)

As a general comment, it is not uncommon to see some patients treated by one doctor for a chronic condition requiring lopinavir /ritonavir to also be treated by another physician that prescribes Crestor. Neither doctor is aware of the other's prescriptions. (Hence the need for a common pharmacist that can usually identify the contradicting medications.)

Please do not change your medication on your own without consulting your doctor. Don't be shy in making your concerns know. And if the doctor seems clueless, see another physician. Some doctors rely on the pharma reps for education and don't completely read the product monographs themselves.

Statins are truly a miracle life saver for millions of people and if prescribed properly can add many years of life to people that would otherwise be doomed to an early death by heart disease.

As an aside, a chiropractor can worsen a medical problem. For prevention and effective treatment please consider the services of a physiotherapist in conjunction with your physician.

All good advice and I've already done much of what you recommend, with the exception of sitting down with a doctor to discuss and I will do that soon. Since there are no other medications involved and no injuries, I'm trying to learn more about the possible CoQ10 link and in doing so I've discovered a camp of opinion that does not feel the same way about Protease Inhibitors as do you and I. The "anti" camp makes all kinds of links between PI use and a range of ailments and some serious conditions. I'm not sure why the camp exists but it;s probably worth me learning more so I can make an informed judgment.

As for Chiropractors, I'm afraid I am a big believer although I recognize the potential risk. Many years ago I was diagnosed with two prolapsed disks and surgeons wanted to perform a disectomy - I saw the MRI of the ruptured disks and had been bedridden for many weeks. Three days before the op I hobbled into a Chiropractors office in great pain and left there a well man 45 minutes later, never had a problem since.

Who and where is your chiropractor? Please let him/her be in Thailand because we really need!

[Tammi]

I was on statins up until about 3 years ago. I had sore everything - hips, fingers, shoulder, feet. Doctors of course said aches had nothing to do with statins. I was scheduled to have an op on my shoulder but stopped statins instead. Now I have no problems! I stopped checking cholesterols so have no idea what goes on there. I exercise and eat low fat, no meat, just veg, fruit and fish. At bedtime I take 58 mgs of CoEnzyme Q10. One can only buy 29 mgs capsules in Thailand but if I go to Phnom Penh or Singapore I stock up on 200 mg capsules. You should read Duane Graveline M.D. and former astronaut and NASA scientist on the internet re statins and CoQ10.

[chiang mai]

This is one drug I know very well. The 10mg dose you are receiving should not produce this effect on its own. What I suggest you do is as follows;

1. Make a list of all the medications you are taking. (Include anything you have taken including OTC pain relievers, antacids such as Tums, Rolaids malox, etc.)

2. Make a list of all physical injuries you have sustained in your torso and shoulder such as deep tissue injuries, breaks etc.

3. Make a list of all existing medical conditions.

Then sit down with your doctor and show him or her these lists and discuss them. The ailment you are experiencing may be due to a drug interaction or a pre-existing condition. I am assuming you are caucasian and not asian or african. This is a drug that has race specific results. (e.g. asians can take a smaller dose and enjoy the same benefits as caucasians that require a greater dose.)

As a general comment, it is not uncommon to see some patients treated by one doctor for a chronic condition requiring lopinavir /ritonavir to also be treated by another physician that prescribes Crestor. Neither doctor is aware of the other's prescriptions. (Hence the need for a common pharmacist that can usually identify the contradicting medications.)

Please do not change your medication on your own without consulting your doctor. Don't be shy in making your concerns know. And if the doctor seems clueless, see another physician. Some doctors rely on the pharma reps for education and don't completely read the product monographs themselves.

Statins are truly a miracle life saver for millions of people and if prescribed properly can add many years of life to people that would otherwise be doomed to an early death by heart disease.

As an aside, a chiropractor can worsen a medical problem. For prevention and effective treatment please consider the services of a physiotherapist in conjunction with your physician.

All good advice and I've already done much of what you recommend, with the exception of sitting down with a doctor to discuss and I will do that soon. Since there are no other medications involved and no injuries, I'm trying to learn more about the possible CoQ10 link and in doing so I've discovered a camp of opinion that does not feel the same way about Protease Inhibitors as do you and I. The "anti" camp makes all kinds of links between PI use and a range of ailments and some serious conditions. I'm not sure why the camp exists but it;s probably worth me learning more so I can make an informed judgment.

As for Chiropractors, I'm afraid I am a big believer although I recognize the potential risk. Many years ago I was diagnosed with two prolapsed disks and surgeons wanted to perform a disectomy - I saw the MRI of the ruptured disks and had been bedridden for many weeks. Three days before the op I hobbled into a Chiropractors office in great pain and left there a well man 45 minutes later, never had a problem since.

Who and where is your chiropractor? Please let him/her be in Thailand because we really need!

The Phuket Physical Therapy Center, opposite the Police Station in Phuket Town.

[chiang mai]

I was on statins up until about 3 years ago. I had sore everything - hips, fingers, shoulder, feet. Doctors of course said aches had nothing to do with statins. I was scheduled to have an op on my shoulder but stopped statins instead. Now I have no problems! I stopped checking cholesterols so have no idea what goes on there. I exercise and eat low fat, no meat, just veg, fruit and fish. At bedtime I take 58 mgs of CoEnzyme Q10. One can only buy 29 mgs capsules in Thailand but if I go to Phnom Penh or Singapore I stock up on 200 mg capsules. You should read Duane Graveline M.D. and former astronaut and NASA scientist on the internet re statins and CoQ10.

My, my, my, isn't that interesting! What the doctors don't tell you and what all Statins users should know. Thanks

[ignoramus]

I was on statins up until about 3 years ago. I had sore everything - hips, fingers, shoulder, feet. Doctors of course said aches had nothing to do with statins. I was scheduled to have an op on my shoulder but stopped statins instead. Now I have no problems! I stopped checking cholesterols so have no idea what goes on there. I exercise and eat low fat, no meat, just veg, fruit and fish. At bedtime I take 58 mgs of CoEnzyme Q10. One can only buy 29 mgs capsules in Thailand but if I go to Phnom Penh or Singapore I stock up on 200 mg capsules. You should read Duane Graveline M.D. and former astronaut and NASA scientist on the internet re statins and CoQ10.

My, my, my, isn't that interesting! What the doctors don't tell you and what all Statins users should know. Thanks

[ignoramus]

Oh, now I see -- clk on ADD REPLY, not REPLY. Obviously a major difference. Though not new, am still newish. An innocent abroad, no less.

Further to my previous report on, mention of, statins, co-enzyme Q10, frozen shoulder etc: I shall have to pay more attention to punctuation - sorry for any confusion caused.

Apart from the fact that shoulders have muscles, and Q10 is apparently germane to muscles, I wasn't specifically trying to link the two.

That guy I mentioned - Russell Setright - reads studies/analyses and meta-analyses like a crazy man. His knowledge is encyclopaedic. He is a jai dee man. I've been listening to his radio show for decades (but don't necessarily take his word on everything - I double-check some things, as I've been reading health stuff for about 40 years, and have learnt that one needs to read widely in order to be even vaguely informed). I am not necessarily a true-believer of his, just a 'dedicated follower of fashion'.

(Am a true-believer in Voltaire, only. Oh, Ok, Omar Khayyam as well - there's that smarty-pants one about 'doctor and saint'. He had no respect! Likeable chap).

In this country, I understand (but am not stating this as a fact) that medical students receive about 8 hours nutrition tuition! (So we go to Google). Consequently, in my experience, you will find few medical doctors - or any university graduates for that matter - willing to admit ignorance on any subject not their specialty - nutrition included - to you anyway. Unspoken is: "I'm a graduate mate, I know all there is to know about my specialty plus catching crocs and cobras, creating crop-circles and cool horse-whispering". (Yippee and yahoo to those lads who stared intensely for a moment or three at one another and said "should we call it Google").

Statins, one understands, deplete the body of its Q10. Maybe other substances have the same effect. Immaterial, irrelevant, not germane et hoc genus omne.

One understands that Q10 is a naturally occurring substance in the human body.

One understands that it is required by the muscles, including, it would follow, the heart muscle. A circular connection: Heart - statins - Q10 - heart.

Depletion is also said, by some, to occur concomitantly with aging, ### it.

I previously noted that apparently some statin drugs are manufactured to include Q10. In Google type "merck statins" for example (only because I am given to understand that Merck was one of the first to include Q10).

Co-enzyme Q10's depletion (if such depletion is a fact) results, I am given to understand, in a general decrease in energy, and of muscle strength in particular. This week on the radio a caller (to Russell) reported that she'd been told by another naturopath to throw away her statin drug. Russell went almost ballistic, to use the technical term. As a firm rule, he never overides the professional opinions of callers' (medical or other) practitioners. That other naturopath is seemingly a somewhat unwise person, as he would have to hand no (reputable) studies on which to base that 'advice', or at least one trusts that it is so. It appears that there is some 'advice' up with which one should not put. As 'chiang mai' said, statins are miraculous wee blighters. Such tiny little things too.

Re frozen shoulder: since, presumably, a muscle (or three or four or 27) is involved, Q10 may indeed play a significant part. (If one is aging as I seem to be, it plays a part in any case, or so one might be perhaps unwisely tempted to surmise.)

However, lypronil (NZ green-lipped mussel extract) is the substance which specifically solved the particular frozen shoulder problem I previously noted. Presumably it acts upon tendons. Key " lyprinol " into Google, or wherever.

Oh....for those who harbour suspicious minds, who are attempting to second guess me, my 'vested' interest in mentioned products inter alia is (a perfectly formed circular) zero - more like minus 273 degrees celsius, actually. FYI: Some bods, as is obvious from other Forum posts, just like to help. Whoa there....helpinggg eeehh? What a concept! Where are you Montgomery Burns.

PS Re heart probs: the bread in Siam is, to me, ghastly (no cake I guess), so I imagine few use the average margarine, yes. To me the term "hydrogenated oil" is cold sweat stuff, heart-wise. We now have rice bran oil 'butter' here. Supposed to be 'gooder' for one than marg or butter. Haven't tried it, prefer butter. With the oil version's higher smoke point it is apparently better for frying than olive oil. Have tried this. (We shan't mention the macular degeneration/vegetable oil connection).

All of the above can be catergorised as info that which I am given to understand , but don't necessarily subscribe to, and no responsibility can be accepted by the management. This has been a what-you-see-is-what-you-get post.

Kindly excuse my underlining (I'm a timid lad -- damocles-sword-sensitive skull).

Last word: think >>> Google et al, mate. Best wishes, cheers and regards.

[SedukiDude]

I have also been taking Crestor for 6 months and now recently diagnosed with Frozen Shoulder. Before I was diagnosed with Frozen Shoulder my doctor prescribed Naproxen for the inflammation. It did not help my pain so she prescribed Sulindac which immediately caused my whole body to itch like crazy. Then I resumed taking the Naproxin and had the same itchy side affect immediately. It was strange to not have an allergic reaction one day with the Naproxin then two days later I can no longer take it.

I usually workout at the gym, jog, walk, and bike. Of course I have little muscle aches from time to time as expected from these activities when I exert myself. I started getting muscle and joint pains when I did not expect them. I took a break from working out and still had the pains for no reason. Then I started getting little bruises for no apparent reason. I became suspicious of the Crestor.

Then I discovered that taking these anti-inflammatory drugs can cause heart problems which was the reason for taking the Crestor to begin with. After researching more I decided to just Google the two words, "Crestor" and "Frozen Shoulder" and found this forum. I will return to the cardiologist who prescribed the Crestor and tell him of my suspicions. Hopefully I will be taken off the Crestor soon. I have since began therapy for the shoulder and use heat, ice and aspirin creme for the pain.Thanks for being here forum.

[Tolley]

The whole use of statins is rather controversial anyway.

There is plenty of literature by eminent researchers re the cholesterol myth and statins.

Of course it is a billion dollar industry so there will be a lot of misinformation to sift through to find the truth.

Anywayy you could probably get the same benefits you get from statins without the risks and side effects by taking appropriate vitamins and amending your diet and lifestyle.

[Sheryl]

While I certainly agree that stains have been over-hyped and too aggressively marketed, not everyone can control their lipids through diet and exercise alone. Some types of dyslipidemia are hereditary and do not respond, or respond only minimally, to life style modifications. Although certainly these modifications should be tried first, if the patient is willing.

A potential alternative to statins in people who do not tolerate them well (or otheerwise prefer not to take them) is sustained-release high dose niacin, brand name in Thailand is Niaspan. Noty suitable for everyone, but defnitely underutilized as a result of the aggressive marketing of other cholesterol lowering agents, and worth asking your doctor about if you are having problems with statins.

SD, once an allergic reaction to one drug sets in, it is not unusual to start reacting to other things as well, even agents that previously caused no problem. It is because your immune system is in over-drive. best to avoid all drugs except the most essential until the reaction subsides.

[Tolley]

While I certainly agree that stains have been over-hyped and too aggressively marketed, not everyone can control their lipids through diet and exercise alone. Some types of dyslipidemia are hereditary and do not respond, or respond only minimally, to life style modifications. Although certainly these modifications should be tried first, if the patient is willing.

A potential alternative to statins in people who do not tolerate them well (or otheerwise prefer not to take them) is sustained-release high dose niacin, brand name in Thailand is Niaspan. Noty suitable for everyone, but defnitely underutilized as a result of the aggressive marketing of other cholesterol lowering agents, and worth asking your doctor about if you are having problems with statins.

SD, once an allergic reaction to one drug sets in, it is not unusual to start reacting to other things as well, even agents that previously caused no problem. It is because your immune system is in over-drive. best to avoid all drugs except the most essential until the reaction subsides.

The fact is that there is no real proof that high cholesterol causes heart disease. In fact when they did a recent study on heart attack victims more than half had low or normal cholesterol. The medical studies are contradictadory on the effect of cholesterol and really there is no consensus on the role of cholesterol and heart disease.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Tolley

[SedukiDude]

Good recommendation Sheryl, it is exactly what I have done...quit taking everything except the Cresor for now...see my doctor and tell him I want off the Crestor. For now I will have to put up with the pain until the affects of the Crestor wears off.

While I certainly agree that stains have been over-hyped and too aggressively marketed, not everyone can control their lipids through diet and exercise alone. Some types of dyslipidemia are hereditary and do not respond, or respond only minimally, to life style modifications. Although certainly these modifications should be tried first, if the patient is willing.

A potential alternative to statins in people who do not tolerate them well (or otheerwise prefer not to take them) is sustained-release high dose niacin, brand name in Thailand is Niaspan. Noty suitable for everyone, but defnitely underutilized as a result of the aggressive marketing of other cholesterol lowering agents, and worth asking your doctor about if you are having problems with statins.

SD, once an allergic reaction to one drug sets in, it is not unusual to start reacting to other things as well, even agents that previously caused no problem. It is because your immune system is in over-drive. best to avoid all drugs except the most essential until the reaction subsides.

[ignoramus]

Since this subject is still extant, I had a look out of curiosity. I can't believe I wasted so much of my valuable previously. Can't even be bothered to re-read my ridiculously long posts. If whoever originally posted on this subject 3 years ago [!] hasn't looked into lyprinol [re shoulders] and thincs.org [re cholesterol] I am and shall remain astonished. The best of British luck to you lad. You need it. [Luck that is].