Some Pointers For Tourists

[viciouskitty74]

Good opening post...

Not many things really annoy me in Thailand but when I walk into my local restaurant with my long term girlfriend to be greeted by some (usually middle aged and slightly sunburnt female) tourist giving me the "I know what you're up to and I think it's disgusting" look, my blood starts to boil. I'm waiting for my first derogatory comment, if only witness my girlfriends retort which I have no doubt would be priceless

errm......my stepmother, sees farangs with asian females, flick her eyes to me, make me look that direction, giggles and mutters farangs under her breath.

its the same when she sees transformers or would be transformers.

and she is only 3 years older then me and is one of those northern 'good girls'. the kind that works hard, not much education, bring up her only child & cooks clean for my papa. I have respect for her for sticking to my father. But this is something which I am so not used to. Its not something I can tell her about.

maybe I should go find a farang boyfriend?

[johnsonspot]

I think its a tale of two cultures and their current problems with the opposite sex. First, I'm a white male from the U.S. I will tell you that, in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of other men, American women bore me, disgust me and I simply have no desire to go through the drama of a relationship with them anymore. On the other side, I have talked to countless Thai women who have no use for Thai men and their "mia noi" and "geek" addictions. That's not passing judgement, on my part, just a reflection of how Thai women are fed up with being treated poorly and their willingness to find a man that will "take care" of them. To me, its not right or wrong...it just is. I've been married to a lovely Thai lady for two years and have not regretted it one bit. BTW, I'm in my early 40s and she's in her late 30s.

Now, to the poster who sees Thai women as nothing special: I beg to differ. I find them physically very beautiful (as a whole) and find their attitudes about life and commitment to their SO very refreshing.

Obviously I'm speaking in general terms here. Of course not every Thai woman is a gem. I would say that Thai women put American women to shame as a whole.

My 2 cents.

[scotwumman]

Woohoo I think a very insightful post as indeed is the Op's. Maybe however expats and natives should look

at the fact that there are youngish even some stylish tourists (some maybe even deserve to be called sex tourists)

who find it difficult to chat to pretty ladies at home and for some reason or other need an ego boost. Some are

not so self-deluded in thinking that they are attractive (although some are attractive) so therefore pay for the attention whilst

on holiday. Maybe some lack self-esteem or are recovering from past hurtful relationships.

Maybe even forgive them for wearing shorts as most of them will come from bitter cold countries and perhaps

the ladies are second to the fact that they have paid a very high airfare to get some wintertime sun. Having said that

my compassion would come to a sudden stop should they sport uncovered daft tattoos and disrespect the laws of the land, any

land.

Just a pity most of them might not be aware of Thaivisa and read what's expected of them before they arrive gung-ho and wonder

why they feel a bit unwelcome or worse, a nuisance

[ade100]

I think its a tale of two cultures and their current problems with the opposite sex. First, I'm a white male from the U.S. I will tell you that, in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of other men, American women bore me, disgust me and I simply have no desire to go through the drama of a relationship with them anymore. On the other side, I have talked to countless Thai women who have no use for Thai men and their "mia noi" and "geek" addictions. That's not passing judgement, on my part, just a reflection of how Thai women are fed up with being treated poorly and their willingness to find a man that will "take care" of them. To me, its not right or wrong...it just is. I've been married to a lovely Thai lady for two years and have not regretted it one bit. BTW, I'm in my early 40s and she's in her late 30s.

Now, to the poster who sees Thai women as nothing special: I beg to differ. I find them physically very beautiful (as a whole) and find their attitudes about life and commitment to their SO very refreshing.

Obviously I'm speaking in general terms here. Of course not every Thai woman is a gem. I would say that Thai women put American women to shame as a whole.

My 2 cents.

I would agree with this. There are many reasons why Asian women look for Western partners and money is certainly not the only one. To see proof of this, you can see in many "wealthy" Asian countries such as Japan, Singapore and HK, Asian women are still looking for Western boyfriends. Why? Because most western countries are further down the path of sexual equaility. Most Western guys are ready to treat their partner as an equal.

[WOOHOO]

Very good point. As much as I like Thai men, they can have a very 1950's, wife chained to the sink approach to marriage, and I think that's what a lot of Thai women are trying to get away from. I think the younger generation are evolving though. It seems as if Thai teens want to have a much more western approach to there relationships, (although that's not always a good thing, with things like teen pregnancy, std's and such.) I guess they need to find the balance between the two.

[Zpete]

I don't think the problem is that it's hard to understand Thai / Farang relationships, I think the problem is the range of relationships. You have the already quoted 'fat 60 year old man' who treats bar girls like objects of amusement, as you would maybe a jet ski, (despicable) right up to the couple who meet, date, fall in love & settle down etc, as normal people do all over the world. The problem lies in the fact that there's a million and one other kinds of relationships in between those two examples, and if you don't know where people lie in that range, which more often than not you can't by looking at them, then you are in no position, what so ever to judge. I've got a few friends back home who have settled down with girls they originally met in bars, as thousands of people have. Although it's not something I could have done personally, these people are now in genuine, loving, normal relationships, despite the unorthodox way the relationship started, so how can they be deemed to have done anything wrong? Even the Thai girl who married the Farang for his money and the Farang who married her because he couldn't find love in his own country, again, if they're happy now, who's to say they've done anything wrong either. As Chiang mai said, it's a very complex issue. I suppose one way of looking at it, is if no one is getting used and abused, and both parties are happy, who has the right to be judgmental.

P.S you're right HB 'older women with cash looking for a young buck' do exist as well, but I'm buggered if I could find one when I was younger. God only knows I looked.

You me too, WOOHOO,

I was lucky one did catch me, only 20 years older than me.

Spring - Autumn, relationship, it flourished for many years.

She was a single teacher, great help too.

There is a lot to be said for young guys getting close to older wimmin.

Read the book, "In Praise of Older Women"

It is so funny, but sooooooo true.

The same goes in Thaigal and farang relationships.

My Thai gal, for some reason thinks I am wunnaful.

Delusional, dun think so.

[ashdjin]

I would say, yes and no to that britmaveric. Yes there is a percentage, for whom it comes down to the good old fashion, falling in love. I would like to think it was a high percentage. But there is definitely a percentage where ulterior motives come in to play. How many couples do you see where you think 'If that fella was in his country he could never get a girlfriend that young/pretty' or ' she's only with that really old bloke because he's loaded and might take her to Europe or somewhere'. I don't want to come across too judgemental or shallow but we all know it's true. So if you really need to ask why the big fat 60 year old man comes to Thailand & falls in love with a tiny, cute 20 year old, then I really can't help you, cos it's fairly obvious to me.

it is obvious why old blokes marry young thais...i did not ask about these sort...i askled about young men marrying thais...when they could just as well marry their own nationality...i've seen men in their 30's...as many as those in their 60's...with thai wifes...with whom they did not exchange more then 2 or 3 words ....i've sit next to a couple in the plane...and i was thinking to myself...lacking anything better to reflect upon obviously..."boy...this man must really feel lonely...why then marry at all"....

[ashdjin]

Understanding Thai wimmin, no prob.

I wish for her TLC, she wishes for my ATM card.

Simple, where the probs?

how happy you must be my brotha...keep on livin' da gud life

[Super Hans]

I would say, yes and no to that britmaveric. Yes there is a percentage, for whom it comes down to the good old fashion, falling in love. I would like to think it was a high percentage. But there is definitely a percentage where ulterior motives come in to play. How many couples do you see where you think 'If that fella was in his country he could never get a girlfriend that young/pretty' or ' she's only with that really old bloke because he's loaded and might take her to Europe or somewhere'. I don't want to come across too judgemental or shallow but we all know it's true. So if you really need to ask why the big fat 60 year old man comes to Thailand & falls in love with a tiny, cute 20 year old, then I really can't help you, cos it's fairly obvious to me.

it is obvious why old blokes marry young thais...i did not ask about these sort...i askled about young men marrying thais...when they could just as well marry their own nationality...i've seen men in their 30's...as many as those in their 60's...with thai wifes...with whom they did not exchange more then 2 or 3 words ....i've sit next to a couple in the plane...and i was thinking to myself...lacking anything better to reflect upon obviously..."boy...this man must really feel lonely...why then marry at all"....

Personally, I would rather marry someone who didn't speak a word of the language to someone that will do nothing but watch EastEnders, read Heat magazine and drone on and on about shopping or celebrity gossip all day. I can only see more and more farang making their money in the west and retiring to have families in the east - the typical British woman I see every day holds very little interest to me, sadly. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting Thai women don't do the same, but at least they can't talk to me about it.

You can't seriously be suggesting Thais have bad figures, can you? The numbers of (especially) British, American and Australian women who have weight issues drives young farang men to Thailand in their droves. It is too politically incorrect for men to make an issue of this in their own countries so they are voting with their feet.

[ashdjin]

I don't think the problem is that it's hard to understand Thai / Farang relationships, I think the problem is the range of relationships. You have the already quoted 'fat 60 year old man' who treats bar girls like objects of amusement, as you would maybe a jet ski, (despicable) right up to the couple who meet, date, fall in love & settle down etc, as normal people do all over the world. The problem lies in the fact that there's a million and one other kinds of relationships in between those two examples, and if you don't know where people lie in that range, which more often than not you can't by looking at them, then you are in no position, what so ever to judge. I've got a few friends back home who have settled down with girls they originally met in bars, as thousands of people have. Although it's not something I could have done personally, these people are now in genuine, loving, normal relationships, despite the unorthodox way the relationship started, so how can they be deemed to have done anything wrong? Even the Thai girl who married the Farang for his money and the Farang who married her because he couldn't find love in his own country, again, if they're happy now, who's to say they've done anything wrong either. As Chiang mai said, it's a very complex issue. I suppose one way of looking at it, is if no one is getting used and abused, and both parties are happy, who has the right to be judgmental.

P.S you're right HB 'older women with cash looking for a young buck' do exist as well, but I'm buggered if I could find one when I was younger. God only knows I looked.

i am not being judgemental in any way...even if it is use and abuse i really do not care as i could not do anything to make things better anyway...unfortunatly....as far as i can say about thai women...at least those engaged in prostitution of any kind....no one is really using and abusing them into it...it is their choice and it is simply the way things are ....rest is useless blabbering ...

it is only that it makes the reality of this country really sad ...and if there is one thing that made me feel unconfortable in this country...is the faces of the girls walking at the arm of a westerner....even if these men were their husbands....or long term boyfriends...or what ever....

i have not seen a thai girl or woman envolved with a westerner displaying a happy or proud or content face ...be it a young handsome smart looking guy...or an old bloke...all of these women...even if treated like queens...looked somewhat unhappy ....unconfortable...and discontent...even somehow embarassed...i think primerly with themselves...

whereas those married with their own thai men...looked so happy with themselves and content and proud of themselves and their children...

the difference in the attitudes displayed by thais married with westerners and thais married with thais is striking....

again i am not being judgemental....it is just that everything nice and beautiful about this country and these nice people fades away dramatically at the sight of these women...be them wifes girfriends or just hookers of western men...

sorry to say that...but this is what i have seen....it is really a shame...as both the country and the people are really nice....

[chiang mai]

As you may have gathered by now there are many things I do not understand. To ad to the list is my failure to understand why posts, regardless of there nature, always seem to end up talking about relationships between Thai women and western men and prostitution. OK I grant you the Thai Baht versus Pound Sterling thread has yet to get to that point but I have confidence it may at some point! Maybe it all has to do with association of ideas: Thailand, holiday, tourists, women, men, hookers. Maybe it's Freudian, maybe it's what folks really want to talk about - OK, I'm finally there on this! Sorry to have interrupted, please continue.

[ashdjin]

I think its a tale of two cultures and their current problems with the opposite sex. First, I'm a white male from the U.S. I will tell you that, in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of other men, American women bore me, disgust me and I simply have no desire to go through the drama of a relationship with them anymore. On the other side, I have talked to countless Thai women who have no use for Thai men and their "mia noi" and "geek" addictions. That's not passing judgement, on my part, just a reflection of how Thai women are fed up with being treated poorly and their willingness to find a man that will "take care" of them. To me, its not right or wrong...it just is. I've been married to a lovely Thai lady for two years and have not regretted it one bit. BTW, I'm in my early 40s and she's in her late 30s.

Now, to the poster who sees Thai women as nothing special: I beg to differ. I find them physically very beautiful (as a whole) and find their attitudes about life and commitment to their SO very refreshing.

Obviously I'm speaking in general terms here. Of course not every Thai woman is a gem. I would say that Thai women put American women to shame as a whole.

My 2 cents.

i do not know about american women...you probably are right about them...you must be knowing better....but frankly all thai women married with westerners i have come about...it is not that i've undertaking some sort of freaky study on farang/thai relationships...it is just they were everywhere...there were more mixt couples then native couples around...

all those thai women married with westerners that i had the unlucky chance to behold were somewhat ashamed...somewhat embarrased...somewhat unconfortable and somewhat unhappy with themselves ....even when supposedly married with children and treated very well by their husbands by the looks of it....and unfortunatly i do not think their western husbands did notice it...were they young or old....americans or british or any other nationality....i wonder why that is...

i am not being judgemental...it is simply sad and it makes everything less attractive about this country....

and it is a shame as this country is trully beautiful and the people really nice....it would be better of for thailand to be known simply a sa paradise for peopel wanting to take a rest from all the maddness of the west...rather then the most profitable sex destination for the west....

i hope i did not hurt any feelings here...i am a woman as well...in my 20's...from eastern europe ...i had visited thailad with my boyfriend....but i do not think my perspective upon things would be different if i'd been otherwise...which makes it even more sad...

[ashdjin]

Very good point. As much as I like Thai men, they can have a very 1950's, wife chained to the sink approach to marriage, and I think that's what a lot of Thai women are trying to get away from. I think the younger generation are evolving though. It seems as if Thai teens want to have a much more western approach to there relationships, (although that's not always a good thing, with things like teen pregnancy, std's and such.) I guess they need to find the balance between the two.

[/quo

i'm afraid you are not being realistic...i do not think western men marry thai girls to empower them ....come on...

do western men marry thai girls to turn them into down right western women...educated...career oriented....financially independent....

or simply to have someone to attend to their own needs...as women are supposed to ...hmmmm??? ...no...these women wouldn't be that appealing if trully treated equally...

so them what is the difference between thai men and western men...i do not see any...

and frankly of what i have seen thai women married with thai seem to be much more proud at peace confortable and content with themselves then the many more married with westerners which by the way were treating them very good....odd isn't it?

[WOOHOO]

As I, and others have said, it is not an easy topic to get to the bottom of, & there is no right or wrong answer. But I will say one thing, it isn't something you'll understand after a 2 week holiday. The people you see while here on holiday Ashdjin, can not be deemed representative of all Thai/Farang couples. What about the thousands that live away from the tourist areas. What about the hundreds of thousands of Thai women who live in Europe, America, Australia etc. Have you seen their sad & embarrassed faces? Are you in a position to assess their happiness? I think you're making a very sweeping judgment based on a tiny amount of information you have gathered in a very short amount of time. You may be exactly right about the people you saw, but they are a tiny fraction of the people you are discussing.

P.S Now that I know you're female your 'Thai women are mostly not beautiful, not humorous, and mostly shapeless' comment make so much more sense. It's been a very long time since I've heard a man say that.

I guess Chiangmai, the amount it gets discussed just goes to show that it's a very relevant part of life here in Phuket, that a lot of people have opinions about, but I can see it must be tiresome for those who have been around for a while and have seen it raise it's head hundreds of times already!!

[viciouskitty74]

I was at Watsons, Ocean Plaza, Phuket Town.

When I saw this little cute angel, about the age of 3-4. She had a dab of moisturiser on her hand and was walking around getting her aunts, cousins to see her rub the moisturiser in.

She spoke beautiful thai, and has the lovliest dark brown hair and big eyes and such beautiful skin!

Then I was at Lotus Tesco just now. And another little girl, was hopping, and chattering to her cousin. Another lovely little kid with brown eyes and light brown skin with a darker shade of hair.

Whats not to love about farang and thai ladies marriage?