Translation Challenge

[Lizphuket]

I recently came across 3 books by John Burdett (Bangkok Eight, Bangkok Tattoo and Bangkok Haunts). Apart from being a good, fun read with an interesting insight into Thai 'culture' they include a number of words which I would like to translate into Thai script. I have found a couple so far e.g. spic and span which I include in the following list. Can anyone shed any light on others please?

Kreung sangha tan monk basket

Pop gun

Pop pong avoiding death on the roads. Pop gun is sensible things like

wearing seatbelts and not driving too fast. Pop pong is

‘inviolable spiritual protection’

choi choi

baan nok country bumpkin

luak yen sangfroid

tee song, tee dtam Thai feudal system high-low

lork? Really?

Ting tong

Yaa dum aromatherapy inhaler

Jao por Godfather

Jikatee tickles

Siaow horny

Gatdanyu a kind of blood debt

Arhat used in context of a policeman who does not take bribes/money (no comment!) seems to be something approaching a saint

Mia noi

next life ชาติหน้า chart naa

karma กรรม gam

Spic and span เรียบร้อย riap roy

[bina]

ting tong = idiot

mia noi= second wife, little wife (mistress sort of)

arhat= some one who has reached enlightenment but chooses to stick around in this world (a loose meaning)

sieow= heightened sensation not just horny, can be fear also

coichoi-- leave it as it is , letting it hang (as in hanging out, slang like), doing nothing, nothing special, -- used in many different ways ... like " how was it watching the movie " choichoi' (like, nothing special).... what did u do all day choichoi == hanging out doing nothing or while doing something like holding out leg for massage or clipping the dog's nails == choi choi i.e. leave it as it is, dont hold it out, pick it up or grab it, leave it natural ;

laaw??? really as in : u went to visit her , laaawwwww?

dok: mai ruu dok as in : i really dont know, absolutely dont know

[DavidHouston]

From Lexitron: ที่ต่ำที่สูง [têe dtàm têe sŏong] [N] (be mindful of) one's own place

Sample:ผู้ปกครองจะสอนลูกหลานเสมอว่าต้องมีสัมมาคารวะ คือการรู้จักที่ต่ำที่สูง

[pôo bpòk krong jà sŏn lôok lăan sà-mĕr wâa dtông mee săm-maa-kaan-wá keu gaan róo jàk têe dtàm têe sŏong]

"Parents should constantly teach their children and grandchildren to have respect for others; that is, they should be mindful of their place [in society]."

Edited November 10, 2007 by DavidHouston

[DavidHouston]

From Lexitron:

ยาดม [yaa dom - second word sound like the English word "dome"] [N] smelling salt; inhalant

Sample:ยาดมก็เป็นยาประจำตัวของคนแก่

"Smelling salts are the medication of choice for old folks."

[DavidHouston]

Lexitron has

เจ้าพ่อ [jâao pôr] [N] godfather; very influential person; mogul

Class. คน

Def. ผู้เป็นใหญ่หรือมีอิทธิพลในถิ่นนั้น.

Sample:"เขาบุกเบิกอาณาจักรอุตสาหกรรมสิ่งทอในประเทศไทยจนได้ชื่อว่าเป็นเจ้าพ่อสิ่งทอ"

"He pioneered new territory in the weaving industry, thus earning the appelation, "godfather of weaving".

[DavidHouston]

Lexitron shows:

กตัญญู [gà-dtan-yoo ] [V] be grateful; oblige

Syn. รู้คุณ, แสดงความกตัญญู

Sample:เด็กๆ จะถูกสอนให้กตัญญูรู้คุณบิดามารดา

"Children should be taught to be grateful to their fathers and mothers [for what they have received]."

ความกตัญญู [kwaam gà-dtan-yoo ] [N] gratitude; thankfulness

Syn. ความรู้คุณ, กตเวทิตา

Ant. การเนรคุณ.

Sample:มนุษย์เราต้องมีความกตัญญูต่อผู้มีพระคุณ

"We humans should [show our] gratitude to those who have showed us kindness"

[DavidHouston]

An oldie but goddie, a Ramwong song from many years ago come these lines:

ตา มอง ตา สายตา ก็ จ้อง มอง กัน

รู้สึก เสียวซ่าน หัวใจ

"Our eyes meet and we look intently at each other

We feel an excitement in our hearts"

For a better translation see: http://www.hawaii.edu/thai/thaisongs/frmlook.htm

Note the word เสียวซ่าน which Domnern Sathienpong translates as "to become sexually excited; to experience intense pleasure." Both sentiments may be out of place in a staid, conservative ramwong song; but there you have it!

Lexitron has itself as เสียว "[V] to feel spasm" or " [V] to feel a thrill of fear."

Domnern Sathienpong defines เสียว more expansively as, "to be scared of; hair-raising; to feel a thrill of pain / pleasure; painful; (sexually) exciting; feels so good."

Other interesting constructions include: หวาดเสียว "[V] to be adventurous; be soul-stirring" (Lexitron); "scary, frightening" (Domnern Sathienpong).

Edited November 10, 2007 by DavidHouston

[DavidHouston]

Lexitron has เลือดร้อน [lêuat rón] [V] be hot-tempered; be impetuous; be quick-tempered but not its antonym, "เลือดเย็น". Domnern Sathienpong does have a definition of "เลือดเย็น" [lêuat yen] as "cold-blooded, unfeeling"; a subset word is "สัตว์เลือดเย็น", "a cold-blooded animal", like a frog. (Note also that the post has a final "k" sound at the end of the first syllable; I suspect that the syllable should end in a "t" sound.)

I'm a bit confused: Sangfroid means "cool self-posession or composure", hardly the same as "cold-blooded" or "unfeeling." Maybe someone can help elucidate for us.

[meadish_sweetball]

Lexitron has เลือดร้อน [lêuat rón] [V] be hot-tempered; be impetuous; be quick-tempered but not its antonym, "เลือดเย็น". Domnern Sathienpong does have a definition of "เลือดเย็น" [lêuat yen] as "cold-blooded, unfeeling"; a subset word is "สัตว์เลือดเย็น", "a cold-blooded animal", like a frog. (Note also that the post has a final "k" sound at the end of the first syllable; I suspect that the syllable should end in a "t" sound.)

I'm a bit confused: Sangfroid means "cool self-posession or composure", hardly the same as "cold-blooded" or "unfeeling." Maybe someone can help elucidate for us.

I asked my main informant who just came in with a cup of coffee what เลือดเย็น means, and her reply was [back-translated] 'somebody who can harm others without any feelings of remorse'. She said it is not a synonym of ใจเย็น which should be a reasonable equivalent of 'sangfroid'.

[DavidHouston]

From Lexitron again:

จักจี้ [jàk-gà-jêe] [V] tickle; itch

Def. อาการที่ทำให้รู้สึกเสียว สะดุ้งหรือชวนให้หัวเราะเมื่อถูกจี้ที่เอวหรือรักแร้เป็นต้น.

"a condition which causes one to feel spasms; an action which causes shock and makes one laugh when one is poked in the waist or in the armpit, for example."

Note the reappearance of the word "เสียว". Strange: I would not have expected that word in the context of "tickling." But, there you are!

[DavidHouston]

From tickling to sainthood in one fell swoop. Again from Lexitron:

อรหันต์ [or-rá-hăn] [N] Buddhist saint (Notice the final "n", not "t" as in the original list; maybe I have the incorrect word.)

Class. องค์ (the same classifier as images of the Buddha, but not generally for monks)

Syn. พระอรหันต์, พระพุทธเจ้า

Def. ผู้สำเร็จธรรมวิเศษสูงสุดในพระพุทธศาสนา, ผู้บรรลุพระนิพพาน.

Sample:พระอรหันต์เป็นผู้ที่หมดจากการกระทำด้วยอำนาจของตัณหา

"A 'Buddhist saint' is a person who has completed his withdrawal from the power of desire."

(Please provide assistance if this translation is incorrect. Thanks.)

[Lizphuket]

From tickling to sainthood in one fell swoop. Again from Lexitron:

อรหันต์ [or-rá-hăn] [N] Buddhist saint (Notice the final "n", not "t" as in the original list; maybe I have the incorrect word.)

Class. องค์ (the same classifier as images of the Buddha, but not generally for monks)

Syn. พระอรหันต์, พระพุทธเจ้า

Def. ผู้สำเร็จธรรมวิเศษสูงสุดในพระพุทธศาสนา, ผู้บรรลุพระนิพพาน.

Sample:พระอรหันต์เป็นผู้ที่หมดจากการกระทำด้วยอำนาจของตัณหา

"A 'Buddhist saint' is a person who has completed his withdrawal from the power of desire."

(Please provide assistance if this translation is incorrect. Thanks.)

Thank you so much for all you hard work on my behalf. I will have to pass the translations on to my friend who is not reading and enjoying the books.

[Lizphuket]

ting tong = idiot

mia noi= second wife, little wife (mistress sort of)

arhat= some one who has reached enlightenment but chooses to stick around in this world (a loose meaning)

sieow= heightened sensation not just horny, can be fear also

coichoi-- leave it as it is , letting it hang (as in hanging out, slang like), doing nothing, nothing special, -- used in many different ways ... like " how was it watching the movie " choichoi' (like, nothing special).... what did u do all day choichoi == hanging out doing nothing or while doing something like holding out leg for massage or clipping the dog's nails == choi choi i.e. leave it as it is, dont hold it out, pick it up or grab it, leave it natural ;

laaw??? really as in : u went to visit her , laaawwwww?

dok: mai ruu dok as in : i really dont know, absolutely dont know

Thank you - that helps. Any chance of you giving me arhat and choichoi in Thai script?

[mangkorn]

A common use of the second term means something like "so-so," as in response to the question: "How are you?" เฉยๆ

It also means "indifferent to," as in when you ask someone which political party they would prefer to win the election: เฉยๆ - ("they're all the same to me...")

I use it most often when wandering through the market or a shop, and a clerk comes to offer assistance: ดูเฉยๆ ("I'm just looking...")

Edited November 10, 2007 by mangkorn

[stateman]

mia noi= second wife, little wife (mistress sort of)

arhat= some one who has reached enlightenment but chooses to stick around in this world (a loose meaning)

sieow= heightened sensation not just horny, can be fear also

mia noi IS mistress. This is the most common form of mistress used in Thai. However 'gig' is now commonly used for someone who has casual relationship (which can include sexual relationship as well). In comparison, mia noi implies the attachment, responsibility of support from the men, if applicable.

arhat= some one who has reached enlightenment.

It doesn't have to be someone who stick around after reaching nirvana. In fact there are rules as to whether a person woud stick around.

A person who reaches nirvana and pass on shortly, without 'sticking around' any longer still is arhat/arahat/arahan.

To also cover what DavidHouston comments below, both arhat and arhan are from the same root word and both are used in Thai. Without trying to search for when arhat is used, I recall one use as: someone reaches arhat-phon อรหัตผล = someone reaches nirvana.

sieow= heightened sensation not just horny, can be fear also

I wouldn't think fear is the same as sieow (เสียว). that heightened sensation is commonly used as in 1. tickled e.g. as tickled at the bottom of the foot 2. when it occurred naturally as when we comes down fast on a swing or a ride at a park. 3. as afraid (not fear) as when you watch a murder scene on TV and the bad guy is about to swing a long sword to chop the good guy's head off. As you see the sword starts moving down, you may feel sieow or waad-sieow เสียว/หวาดเสียว 4. sieow as in sexual feeling such as your sex partner runs her fingers on your body to cause that sensation.

อรหันต์ [or-rá-hăn] [N] Buddhist saint (Notice the final "n", not "t" as in the original list; maybe I have the incorrect word.)

[AjarnP]

อรหันต์ [or-rá-hăn] [N] Buddhist saint (Notice the final "n", not "t" as in the original list; maybe I have the incorrect word.)

HI David,

อรหันต์ 'Arrahan' is perfectly correct you have the right word.

This once again covers the point of the Garan which I raised a few weeks ago. To my mind it is most important when transliterating to OMIT the silent letters created by the addition of the garan symbol.

Sorry, just an opinion,

AjarnP

[stateman]

From Lexitron:

ยาดม [yaa dom - second word sound like the English word "dome"] [N] smelling salt; inhalant

Sample:ยาดมก็เป็นยาประจำตัวของคนแก่

"Smelling salts are the medication of choice for old folks."

There might have been 'salt' in smelling, but in Thailand there is a whole slew of herbs used for smelling.

Most common use is for reviving or prevent an older lady who faints or about to.

There is something I don't understand. It seems a lot of Thai ladies easily faint once they are over 50 years old. At least that is the apparent impression. I have read in so many news articles, stories, and heard people related to it.

I don't know that in the US this is a common condition. I don't know of any 'smelling thing' an old lady carries for such an occasion. Vick's inhaler is not for the same purpose.

Would someone who knows about this share the knowledge? I'd like to know if fainting is a common occurrence for American older ladies. What do they use at the onset of such a fainting spell? Is it commonly sold in the drug store?

[luckyfarang]

From Lexitron again:

จักจี้ [jàk-gà-jêe] [V] tickle; itch

Def. อาการที่ทำให้รู้สึกเสียว สะดุ้งหรือชวนให้หัวเราะเมื่อถูกจี้ที่เอวหรือรักแร้เป็นต้น.

"a condition which causes one to feel spasms; an action which causes shock and makes one laugh when one is poked in the waist or in the armpit, for example."

Note the reappearance of the word "เสียว". Strange: I would not have expected that word in the context of "tickling." But, there you are!

SIAO® is purely idiomatic with no direct translation. It has many usages in Thai and I have never seen a comprehensive definition, although Domnern Sathienpong comes the closest.

In the case of tickling it would best translate as "sensitive", as when it is used to describe a toothache.