Do U Guys Often Get Harrassed By Hilltribe Women At Night Bazaar?

[phrakid]

i m talking about those women in colorful hill tribe garments who walk around all over night bazaar selling jewelries n ornaments...

they will approach u or your wife/girlfriend n pester u to buy something from them. n when u walk a few metres more, similar ones come up to u again n approach u. n the same thing happens again as u walk down night bazaar.

does that happen to u often when u shop at night bazaar? does it gets irritating? esp. those persistent ones or those who interrupts when u r middle of something

Edited November 29, 2007 by phrakid

[realthaideal]

They're part of the reason I own 73 wooden frogs and my floor is covered with rose petals.

Actually, whatever. Some days they bug me and I feel merciless towards them but am always polite. Sometimes polite means ignoring them. Other times I say hello. Sometimes I ask why they don't remember me saying no when I was at the other bar an hour earlier in a different part of the city. How I react varies on mood alot. I find the same with most who live here. You get used to it.

And anyway, have to give them props for trying to make a living. Some are even quite friendly and smiley - always a nice thing. Others are pushy. But still they're just tryin' to make a livin' any way they can. Only criticism is that there are often kids doing the same. I'd be much happier knowing they were home sleeping at night, resting up to go to school the next day. Education would equal alot more choice for the next generation.

Neighboring countries have the touts, vendors, and pushers waaaaay more in your face than they do here. Not worth getting bent out of shape about is the way I see it. Spend some time in Cambodia, Burma, or India and see what real aggressive selling is like. Thailand will suddenly seem a breeze.

[JimsKnight]

It's an Akha hilltribe specialty I'm afraid to go out and hawk those frog-things.

I've heard big criticism from some thais about the Akha tribe being the only hilltribe to put their kids to work selling at a very, very young age (like 1 yr upwards).

I don't know if thats fully true but they are the highest profile of the tribes in NB so maybe they stand out more than the others?

They must make some money as there seems to be more and more of them each year....

Edited November 29, 2007 by JimsKnight

[jaideeguy]

Me, I'm not so polite any more...especially the ones with the runny nosed children that they bring along for extra pitty. my feelings are that they would be well fed and no need for money if they stayed in the village where they have been surviving without our bhatt for centuries.

I just say 'mai yeow' and move on when they approach. give one bhatt and more will come!!

[jimmym40]

Who doesn't get approached by these gals? They're everywhere down there.

BUT, don't be fooled. They all are NOT from the hilltride. Many are just normal thai gals that dress up as "tribe" folk. I know, because I see them ride in on their motorbikes, with kids on their backs, pawn the kid on someone, then go "dress up". They speak perfect thai also. I use to feel sorry for them all until I saw this.

[zorro1]

They would work wonders in a CIA Interrogation room. Personally I would sing like a canary after a few hours of "the frog"

[JuniorExPat]

Who doesn't get approached by these gals? They're everywhere down there.

BUT, don't be fooled. They all are NOT from the hilltride. Many are just normal thai gals that dress up as "tribe" folk. I know, because I see them ride in on their motorbikes, with kids on their backs, pawn the kid on someone, then go "dress up". They speak perfect thai also. I use to feel sorry for them all until I saw this.

Errmm . . . . what disqualifies hilltribe people from being able to ride a motorbike, "dress down" in modern garb and have a younger generation who have learned Thai?

JxP

[Johpa]

i m talking about those women in colorful hill tribe garments who walk around all over night bazaar selling jewelries n ornaments...

Well she doesn't wear hill tribe garments when in town, but this one hill tribe princess keeps harassing me to buy jewelery and other silly ornaments on the rare occasion I visit the night bazaar. And I really hate it when she gets this bee in her bonnet to have me dress up like some freaking Shan drag queen and take a family photo at one of those silly photo shops at the front of the original night market building.

But if you must, the Akha version of mai aow (I don't want) is ma guh.

[Ulysses G.]

I just ignore most of them, but I despise the nasty old crone with one eye who is very pushy. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire!

[jaideeguy]

And, it's common knowlege that there are 'begging mafias' that hire these women and sometimes give them other people's runny nosed children [to evoke pitty/bhatt] and drop them off to do their 'job' and pick them up and take their 'profits' at the end of the night. I've often seen pick-up trucks drop 20 of them off in the night bazaar areas.

the most irritating is the ones that have the trays of trinkets and just block your way on the already crowded streets until you are either rude or buy something.

also irritating are the ones that 'hover' over your table when you are eating at one of the outside food stalls.

don't get me wrong, i do help people who help themselves and offer food to the obviously poor....food and not bhatt that they will buy junk food with or give to their mafia boss.

[Nienke]

I always wonder: would it be worth to be bothered by them (or anything else for that matter) and come down with an unpleasant feeling. For sure, they wouldn't care less when you feel grumpy. They just move on to the next one.

If I don't want to buy, I just say mai Aow (don't want) or or mi leao (have already) with a smile. If they are a bit pushy, the smile disappears when repeating mai ao, and I move on.

On the rare occasions I go to the night bazar I wanna enjoy and feel good. Anyway, bringing a big dog definitely helps.

Nienke

[PeaceBlondie]

Notice the huge photo in the opening post. What right does some indigenous person have to be hawking their wares within sight of the golden arches of McDonald's? Do you think Ray Kroc worked his entire life selling hamburgers so that some lady from the Thai-Burmese border could pester you to buy frogs? Why, it's almost as much of an outrage as that stupid food coupon system at the food courts, undoubtedly modelled on the carnival rides we had in Oklahoma.

Those hawkers used to bother me. Now if they don't run away after the second "mai aow" (and surely they understand that phrase of central Thai), I just jabber at them with 29 words of Spanish. Try it some time: Hungarian, Swedish, Ugaritic, Dari, Somali, Mongolian - they'll finally run away.

[Ulysses G.]

Notice the huge photo in the opening post. What right does some indigenous person have to be hawking their wares within sight of the golden arches of McDonald's? Do you think Ray Kroc worked his entire life selling hamburgers so that some lady from the Thai-Burmese border could pester you to buy frogs?

Right on!

Finally, an understanding moderator.

[PeaceBlondie]

Ulysses, what if she were selling copies of Somerset Maugham?

[uptheos]

OK in front of McDonalds as they are both franchises.

The sellers really don't bother me at all, but that persistent frog sound is becoming irritating and there are quite a lot down walking street on Sunday. The lifespan of these frogs must surely be coming to and end?

[chanchao]

Do U Guys Often Get Harrassed By Hilltribe Women At Night Bazaar?

The only place I get harrassed by hilltribe women is inside a certain entertainment place not far from Aroon Rai restaurant.

I did notice one thing though: I don't see nearly as many flower selling kids these days. If that's truly a trend then that's really very good news, and I'd gladly

take any increase in pestering by their mums (and grandmas) in return!!!

I can't comment much on the Night Bazar as I don't go there. In other areas most of the grannies know me, so don't even try shoving frogs in my face.

Notice the huge photo in the opening post. What right does some indigenous person have to be hawking their wares within sight of the golden arches of McDonald's?

No argument there, though be careful talking about hilltribe people as 'indigenous' in the same sense that Aboriginals in Australia or Native Americans in America are indigenous. I'm also not suggesting that they're NOT indigenous in the more general meaning of the word of "commonly living somewhere", but saying 'indigenous' usually sounds to people the same as saying 'native peoples' so it would sound like hilltribes are native and Thais are not. Anyway. Carry on.

Edited November 30, 2007 by chanchao

[mild7even]

Who doesn't get approached by these gals? They're everywhere down there.

BUT, don't be fooled. They all are NOT from the hilltride. Many are just normal thai gals that dress up as "tribe" folk. I know, because I see them ride in on their motorbikes, with kids on their backs, pawn the kid on someone, then go "dress up". They speak perfect thai also. I use to feel sorry for them all until I saw this.

Errmm . . . . what disqualifies hilltribe people from being able to ride a motorbike, "dress down" in modern garb and have a younger generation who have learned Thai?

JxP

Yeah, what's up with that? It might be a surprise to some folks, but the hill tribers don't all live in bamboo huts and wear their traditional clothes all day. I don't think that makes them less hill-tribish, it is just a part of their identity now. Some of them even own trucks and satellite dishes and furniture. Some of them even go on trips to other countries like Korea and South Africa--on exchange and good will tours, not necessarily as maids and construction workers.

On the other hand, there are actually some of them who do live in bamboo huts--right here in Chiang Mai. Down past the night bazaar, a little bit to the west, there is a small dirt path that leads behind some trees. You wouldn't believe that hidden behind those trees is a small Akha village that looks transplanted directly from the mountains. And yet, they still wear western style clothes and there presently is no ban on riding motorcycles.

Many of the hill tribers are fantastically multi-lingual, as well. There are some I know who speak Thai like a native, and even other Thais wouldn't know the difference. And they also speak English, Chinese (due to their close association with the descendants of the KMTs in the mountains), and of course their native languages. There are some who are intermarrying with other hill tribers, and their kids grow up speaking Karen and Akha as native languages, and of course the Thai they learn in school.

Nonetheless, I don't much like the pushiness of some vendors as well, whatever their ethnicity or language. When approached, I give a small polite smile and shake my head. After that I ignore them, and they get the message quickly. By saying anything to them, even "mai aow", you are encouraging them.

[uptheos]

Are there indigenous Thais?

Re hilltribes, I don't think they are indigenous. My understanding is that in general they have migrated from Burma, Tibet, Yunnan etc, which wouldn't make them indigenous (which I believe generally refers to being there 'pre invasion') in the same sense as the Aborigines or Native American Indians are.

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses, what if she were selling copies of Somerset Maugham?

If they were cheap, I would buy them and sell them to the public for a handsome profit!

Edited November 30, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[cm-happy]

I frequent the NB bars all too often, usually the same one so the owners, bar tenders know me! I cringe when I see the tribals approaching, and lucky for me the bar tenders will intervene and chase them away. Dread the sound of those awful wooden frogs. If mai owe does'nt work, then there is always pai glai glai which is a sure winner and works every time.

If anything, these tribals discourage people for going to NB. If the merchants were wise would ensure that they are NOT WELCOME around their place of business. Have seen on occasion security guards(employed by NB) chase them away as well.

[Blinky Bill]

Me, I'm not so polite any more...especially the ones with the runny nosed children that they bring along for extra pitty. my feelings are that they would be well fed and no need for money if they stayed in the village where they have been surviving without our bhatt for centuries.

I just say 'mai yeow' and move on when they approach. give one bhatt and more will come!!

Just being my pedantic self after a refreshing holiday but why would you tell the approaching vendor to 'Not urinate'?

[legag]

Who doesn't get approached by these gals? They're everywhere down there.

BUT, don't be fooled. They all are NOT from the hilltride. Many are just normal thai gals that dress up as "tribe" folk. I know, because I see them ride in on their motorbikes, with kids on their backs, pawn the kid on someone, then go "dress up". They speak perfect thai also. I use to feel sorry for them all until I saw this.

That's right they are NOT the real deal!! Walk away, pay no mind to them. Don't let them ruin your night.

[uptheos]

I frequent the NB bars all too often, usually the same one so the owners, bar tenders know me! I cringe when I see the tribals approaching, and lucky for me the bar tenders will intervene and chase them away. Dread the sound of those awful wooden frogs. If mai owe does'nt work, then there is always pai glai glai which is a sure winner and works every time.

If anything, these tribals discourage people for going to NB. If the merchants were wise would ensure that they are NOT WELCOME around their place of business. Have seen on occasion security guards(employed by NB) chase them away as well.

Yeah, those froggy sounds can be mildly irritating, but I can't say I've ever had an enjoyable evening spoiled by a hilltribe person - they won't invest too much time in you if you simply put them on ignore. As far as chasing them away, well Akha kids gotta eat too - where should they ply their wares?

[Crow Boy]

BUT, don't be fooled. They all are NOT from the hilltride. Many are just normal thai gals that dress up as "tribe" folk. I know, because I see them ride in on their motorbikes, with kids on their backs, pawn the kid on someone, then go "dress up". They speak perfect thai also. I use to feel sorry for them all until I saw this.

I find these sorts of comments really interesting. My partner is Lisu, she speaks Lisu and a couple of other hill dialects plus pretty good Chinese. Oddly enough because she was born in Thailand she also speaks Thai, that coupled with the fact that she and her family have Thai ID cards make them Thai as well. When she is in Chiang Mai she wears jeans, t-shirts, dresses, and other typically girl type clothes. Same as the others from the mountains who live here and work on construction, in shops, selling clothes, in restaurants. When they go back up to the mountains they change into their traditional clothes and get dressed up in all the silver ware for special occassions.

That she and the others wear jeans, ride on motorbikes and speak Thai or even shock horror English is apparently not allowed in your view or makes her a fake Lisu.

Perhaps you would like to enact international laws so that all native Germans must wear lederhosen, Scots must only wear kilts and speak scots gaelic, and as for those Scandinavians. I saw several of them walking along the night bazaar the other night and not one of them had a double headed axe - ok two had a girl slung over the shoulder but so do most other nationalities around there

Back to the original post - I think these people are simply making a living in the best way they can. I find them part of the colour and culture of Chiang Mai. They were selling their goods way before you and I came to town. That they now sell mango wood frogs to tourists is fine by me. I have a couple at home and have sent some back as gifts to my family. They think they are great - I find the frogs are an excellent gift to small children bored and at home over the long holiday. Gives them hours of amusement driving their parents to disctaction witht the Brraaaaaaaaattt Braaaaaaaaaaaaaat noises.

CB

[uptheos]

Crow Boy - Interesting post and one I agree with. It's just like a franchise, find willing sellers of any ethnicity, kit them out with costume, tray and frog and send them off at one minute intervals. However a great photo opportunity for first timers in Chiangmai.

I'm interested in your Lisu connection. Are you aware of Doi Laan (Lisu village) at the very top of Doi Wawi, just past Mae Suay in Chiangrai province? I have spent a lot of time there with an Anthrapolgist, who lived with the Lisu for 8 years, is fluent having developed her own Lisu language purely by listening to sounds and having them interpreted into Thai by a Thai speaking Lisu woman. As you know there is no written language in Lisu. Thankfully Doi Laan is too far up for tourists, so it remains 'natural'. I recall it when it's main crop began with O, but they were persuaded that tomatoes were a better option, so now they slog all through the mud and dirt for months and then get shafted by the big boys and have to sell crops as low as 1 or 2 baht kilo at times, coz they often don't have the means or knowledge to shift them.

Hilltribe life sure aint easy!

[meadish_sweetball]

The missionary James Fraser actually developed a writing system for Lisu in 1915.

There was also a pinyin-based system developed in 1957 as well, for Lisus still living in China, but apparently it has not caught on.

In 1992, the Chinese government officially recognized the Fraser system and have encouraged its use.

It is quite possible that the Lisu groups living in Thailand have not had much contact with these writing systems though, I don't know.

[cm-happy]

to deflect attention away from the tribals at NB, so thread does not turn into some sort of racist rant opportunity.

There is also the children hawkers selling garlands or flowers. The kids I have a great deal of pity and sympathy for, sometimes will buy other times not.

If child stand in front of me rubbing stomach indicating hunger will buy them a meal from the bar for them to enjoy. There is one child flower hawker that I ALWAYS will buy from. Child is a deaf mute. Will always purchase remaining stock of flowers. since i am a regular customer the child knows what the deal is. Go home go to sleep where children belong at that time of night. Never disappointed me, never to be seen again that night with more flowers to sell.

For those doubters out there, have verified with bar personel the child is indeed deaf and mute.

[Crow Boy]

I just say 'mai yeow' and move on when they approach. give one bhatt and more will come!!

Just being my pedantic self after a refreshing holiday but why would you tell the approaching vendor to 'Not urinate'?

Blinky mate - good to see you back and I notice you are still taking the piss out of the other members of the forum

CB

[legag]

I just say 'mai yeow' and move on when they approach. give one bhatt and more will come!!

Just being my pedantic self after a refreshing holiday but why would you tell the approaching vendor to 'Not urinate'?

Blinky mate - good to see you back and I notice you are still taking the piss out of the other members of the forum

CB

[PeaceBlondie]

My apologies for not using the anthropologically correct word for Hill Tribe people; I knew better and typed too fast. I lived among Mayas whose relatives went to town to sell trinkets, but they wore their indigenous costumes everywhere, not for show. Men and boys in tunics were a common sight, and you could identify a woman's home municipio by her blouse pattern. The Tai Yai village that I've visited twice had no special costumes, but I wasn't there during any festivals.

I wish I'd bought a Mayan tunic and could wear it here......I tried one on once, and my lady friend said I didn't have good looking legs any more.