Private Dancer

[britmaveric]

Eggs out of bottoms??? (never seen that nor do I want to - live frogs did me in)

[kat]

Hey Kat Babe... the new avatar is much more YOU if you see what I mean. Excellent choice. My new years one is ME coloured hair and a bit funky and off the wall ... not as cute as her though. But yours is much more like you honey.

On topic... I did the rounds of the male strip bars in Pattaya for pure research purposes and have to say that, after several interviews, the scene was sad all round - the eggs out of bottoms was a first though

I like yours a lot better, too. I think it does represent you well.

*I have a whole closet full of 'em now.

Edited January 4, 2008 by kat

[seonai]

Cool Kat thanks hon.

Brit the eggs in the jar were just the start of the show!!!!!

[seonai]

Kat my son just saw your new avatar (he doesn'r know anything about you) and he said it was 'way cool' for a female

[kat]

Which one, the current one? I've been trying on a bunch. He sounds pretty cool himself and I'd like to meet him some time.

[seonai]

I reckon you and Zi would get on way well Kat, and yes he likes the current one! We must hit the proverbial sack but I'll see you en la manana x

[beginner]

Never read the book or any of the similar as, being a western women the subject isn't aimed for me, would rather read a thriller. better places for me to go & I'm just not curious enough to bother.

Got some family coming over next year so might take a trip to patpong then but I wouldn't go to a male strip show let alone a female one.

You are missing out on a treat.

Private Dancer is a thriller and a good one too. It is set in Bangkok and gives a good insight into the mindset of various stereotypical characters. Its not going to get a Nobel prize for literature but most people who read it are grateful for the experience.

Stephen Leather is an accomplished writer of excellent thrillers. Its not his best thriller by any means.

Many people believe that for their own emotional and financial protection no one, male or female, should be allowed out of Bangkok airport until they have finished reading it.

Buy,borrow and enjoy. I envy you the fun of a first time read.

[Prakanong]

Never read the book or any of the similar as, being a western women the subject isn't aimed for me, would rather read a thriller. better places for me to go & I'm just not curious enough to bother.

Got some family coming over next year so might take a trip to patpong then but I wouldn't go to a male strip show let alone a female one.

You are missing out on a treat.

Private Dancer is a thriller and a good one too. It is set in Bangkok and gives a good insight into the mindset of various stereotypical characters. Its not going to get a Nobel prize for literature but most people who read it are grateful for the experience.

Stephen Leather is an accomplished writer of excellent thrillers. Its not his best thriller by any means.

Many people believe that for their own emotional and financial protection no one, male or female, should be allowed out of Bangkok airport until they have finished reading it.

Buy,borrow and enjoy. I envy you the fun of a first time read.

Stereotypical characters - I had a drink with at least one from the book over Crimbo - all settled down now and married with a nice kid.

[girlx]

I did the rounds of the male strip bars in Pattaya for pure research purposes and have to say that, after several interviews, the scene was sad all round - the eggs out of bottoms was a first though

ayahh... i have been to the male strip bars and they were crazy(!!!) but never saw the eggs out of bottoms.... insert boo's projectile vomit emoticon here....

some of the gay go gos in pattaya are hilarious. i particularly like the one where they have the huge aquarium in the wall and the boys swim around in their skivvies. they also have cheesy shows where they dress up as cowboys and indians and shoot each other with their d***s... not especialy sexy, but kind of entertaining. i always feel sorry for the guys though, even more than the girls, because several of them are straight but they still go with (gross) gay men for the cash.

[kat]

I have been in go-go bars in Lamai, Patong, Bangkok during my many travels to Thailand. I am an elderly lady (not at all

sexually orientated) and admit I have not read the book but intend to. May I say that I know of many young fellows from

the west some of them close family and whom I observe to be very reticent in their approach to young women at home

are very happy to pay hyped up annual airfares in the high season and forego their usual hardearned summer holiday to

observe or pay for the attention of some very pretty ladies and also enjoy the sun, missing here in winter, and the beauty

of the place itself. These places are fun to them and they are also fun to me, coming from a poor family myself and spent

most of my life working in a miserable, cold and grabbing government, regulated as it might appear. I know for sure that

once the holiday is over, so is the paying-that may change, one never knows. I just cannot condemn or comment on the

writer's own perception nor do I see what is wrong with people paying to be pampered. Supply and demand.

Does your ventriloquist's voice hurt?

[beginner]

[ d***s... not especialy sexy, but kind of entertaining. i always feel sorry for the guys though, even more than the girls, because several of them are straight but they still go with (gross) gay men for the cash.

Some say that 80% of male GoGo dancers are straight. Just Gay for Pay.

Why do you feel sorry for them? Up to them.

This is Thailand. I wonder if they feel sorry for you with your 'strange' western ideas about sexuality.

Edited January 5, 2008 by beginner

[kat]

I did the rounds of the male strip bars in Pattaya for pure research purposes and have to say that, after several interviews, the scene was sad all round - the eggs out of bottoms was a first though

ayahh... i have been to the male strip bars and they were crazy(!!!) but never saw the eggs out of bottoms.... insert boo's projectile vomit emoticon here....

i always feel sorry for the guys though, even more than the girls, because several of them are straight but they still go with (gross) gay men for the cash.

Pretty much the same as the girls.

[zaza]

wow I go offline for most of the day & the thread degenerates into (yet another...yawn) slagging off of western women & western men. How droll!!!!

I have deleted all the offending posts & subsequent replies, if no one can keep it on topic then it will be closed. This shouldn't have to turn into yet another critique of western women by western men or vise versa, the op was quite simple really, have you read the book & do you think it is accurate.

No one needs to know what western women think about western men & we for sure don't care about western mens thoughts on western women either (contrary to what some of you guys think, really, just get over yourselves will ya) so keep it off this thread & out of this forum please.

For fcuks sake.

Good morning Ms.Boo,

I hope you will allow me to speak my mind here; I guess my post(that you had deleted) was clear right and way too far from either (bashing or offending) others in unaccepted manner. I do respect all members and above all this I do respect the other's opinion and I avoid confiscating their right of showing a different color.

I did add my opinion in that post only without depriving those men their right to live or enjoy their own chosen ways ! I emphasized on using (some or few) and I didn't generalize as most of the members' comments or slur users that are filling the forum.

I think deleting my post was really out of (freedom of speech) . The message I got from this is that we all SHOULD reflect the same ideas and follow one-opinion or else we would get (muted) or (hushed) and we should all sing with others' fable voices.Mind you ;(you can never know how light is the white if you don't compare it with dark black).

I read daily the most offending and weird posts but no one bother to delete these posts .

Although,my friend warned me of posting this cause I will be banned for criticizing the moderators, but here is my belief that I will take anything just to keep ;" I should speak my mind whether anyone likes or not".

Have a nice day!

Best Regards.

Yours,

Zaza

[beginner]

Best Regards.

Yours,

Zaza

Zaza,

You think too mutt.

Mai pen lai.

[Boo]

zaza, your post was removed as were many many others which were also off topic & which started flaming through this thread.

The topic is clear, it isn't about yours or anyone elses opinion on western men or what they think of western women, some of your points may have been valid but as you were unable to post them without also adding offensive comments about western men then the whole post had to be removed, I have no time or inclination to edit your posts to make them passable for this forum so in future try to keep offensive or flaming content from your posts & then they wont be removed, this goes for everyone else too.

Thaivisa isn't a place for you or anyone else to freely express your opinions on any subject, there are rules & everyone is expected to follow them, you agreed to abide by them when you registered, if you need to re-read them then please do so. If you see posts you think are offensive then please use the report button, that is what it is there for.

I consider this subject now closed. So back to the topic.

[jumnien]

In any major city in the US you have strip clubs. In Thailand, you have bikini dancing - what a bore!

[kat]

In any major city in the US you have strip clubs. In Thailand, you have bikini dancing - what a bore!

Yeah, and most of them look fairly bored, too. But, I think their business is driven by something other than dancing on a pole.

*spelling

Edited January 6, 2008 by kat

[sbk]

Off topic and inflammatory posts have been deleted.

If we can't have a civil discussion in this thread it will be closed. As per usual, it seems, with this kind of topic.

[Patsycat]

Gay male go go are on my agenda for my next visit!! Patsy's dirty little mind is in overdrive....

[zzdocxx]

Thank mods!

[RueFang]

Never read the book or any of the similar as, being a western women the subject isn't aimed for me, would rather read a thriller. better places for me to go & I'm just not curious enough to bother.

Got some family coming over next year so might take a trip to patpong then but I wouldn't go to a male strip show let alone a female one.

You are missing out on a treat. Private Dancer is a thriller and a good one too. It is set in Bangkok and gives a good insight into the mindset of various stereotypical characters. Its not going to get a Nobel prize for literature but most people who read it are grateful for the experience.

Stephen Leather is an accomplished writer of excellent thrillers. Its not his best thriller by any means.

Many people believe that for their own emotional and financial protection no one, male or female, should be allowed out of Bangkok airport until they have finished reading it.

Buy,borrow and enjoy. I envy you the fun of a first time read.

I have to disagree with you.. it's neither a thriller nor a must read! I had never planned to read it as it is so obviously aimed at a male audience and picked it up only as there was no other reading material available. I'm glad (although wouldn't say 'grateful') I read it as I said before because I live in Thailand and like to get an insight into scenes I don't go to but as another post said it is filled with inaccuracies that irritate..such as when the author writes from the viewpoint of the Thai women. This can be forgiven(!) cos he's a farang man but perhaps he should have had a few more research based conversations with Thai women to portray those chapters more realistically.

JetJock - You say that "women are so quick to criticize or put down the way men, they do not even know, choose to lead their lives. Why do some women seem to be irritated by the thought of guys who might choose to live their lives whoring around or throwing money away or getting cheated out of it!" Personally I couldn't care what you men get up to because it's your life, do what you will, BUT what I object to is the men who "throw money away or get cheated out of it" come onto forums such as this after they have spent potentially hundreds of thousands of baht on a woman over a few months who then ditches them for the next rich farang - and then have the audacity to btch, degrade and carry on about these women (who have an infamous reputation) when frankly, if they were using their northern brain they wouldn't have been burned. Once they've been dumped their "real" brain kicks in and their ego is bruised so then comes the abusive language toward them. I say that if men want to pay for sex or buy expensive jewellery for gold diggers, go right ahead if you've got money to burn, but don't complain about it when you're one of the thousands who get burned...you should know better.

[beginner]

I have to disagree with you.. it's neither a thriller nor a must read! I had never planned to read it as it is so obviously aimed at a male audience and picked it up only as there was no other reading material available. I'm glad (although wouldn't say 'grateful') I read it as I said before because I live in Thailand and like to get an insight into scenes I don't go to

Well, I'm glad that you are 'glad' you read it.

What more can you ask of a book than that you are glad you read it? I assume you finished it....many of the books about the local Thai/Farang scene are virtually unreadable! How do they get published?

And here we are, both discussing it. Stephen Leather has certainly touched a lot of lives with his book.

The strange thing is that even though many farangs have read it, male and female, they still manage to fall into the financial and emotional black hole of a Thai/farang relationship.

You would think forewarned is forearmed but various forums and books show the devastating consequences of the belief that 'my partner is different'.

Thailand Fever by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant (MSc Cultural Anthropology) gives a Thai females view of the culture gap and is no doubt more accurate. In the main it backs up Private Dancer's positions rather than contradicts them.

Just read the Pattaya local papers if you want to see self destruct mode in action.

Edited January 6, 2008 by beginner
formatting removed to make post more readable--sbk

[Girlaboutglobe]

Ahhh controversy! I too wanted to discuss this book when I first read it, I was actually pleasantly surprised by it because I expected it to be totally cliche and predictable, but there was somewhat more to it than my low expectations predicted.

Anyway first off I "did the circuit" so to speak of Bangkok's show bars a few months after being in Thailand. I was curious and as soon as I found a another falang gal who would investigate with me (hi Roxy, if yer reading!) I checked it out. Once was enough, but it was certainly eye opening and occasionally shocking. It ranged from entertaining, bizarre, seedy, sad, impressive, and sometimes pretty, and was worth a look. I mean some things that you would never expect to see...! I wouldn't call much of it "sexy", but I'm glad I went.

The thing that I was and still am curious about, and the thing that got my interest about Private Dancer, is "what's in the mind of girls (or guys) involved in the prostitution"? I'm still not sure. Some of the show girls seemed to be having a good time, but not most. I've never seen what appeared to be a genuinely happy or interested bar girl hanging off the arm of the falang men sitting around the bars in Nana or Patpong (or anywhere). But in Private Dancer the thing that struck me as most interesting and that I wonder if is at all accurate, was the way that Joy didn't seem to understand what her falang boyfriend's problem was. As far as she was concerned she was keeping her end of the bargain. In his mind of course this was not the case, which most of us falangs can understand. But I'd like to know how both a typical Thai girl, and a Thai bargirl would view this. How would the two opions differ from one another, and how would they differ from a "Western" perspective? It got me thinking. Because what exactly is a typical Thai relationship like? What are the expectations, you know? I'm not exactly sure, nor would I really feel all that comfortable asking outright unless I knew the person really well. I mean I think the book was probably pretty accurate from the point of view of the falang, but that's not a huge mystery, you hear those stories all the time. It's the Thai perspective that I'm curious about. I'm not sure if the book got that part right, but if it did then that's pretty compelling....

[0Mix1up]

post about avatars not OT?

"(gross) gay men" not offensive?

[siamesekitty]

I read "Private Dancer" about a year or so ago, after having heard about it for so long. As the comments I'd heard about it ranged from "absolutely true" to "scandalous" to whatever, I started reading it with hope that it would provide some eye-opening/entertaining/informative insight.

It was none of the above. I was disappointed by the quality of the writing (I'm an avid reader and have been reading classic English literature since 3rd grade) and basically by the whole story. The plot seemed all mixed up and scenes jumped around.. dunno, just didn't seem like a "real book", felt rather amateurish. (Not that I am capable of writing quality literature myself.)

Ok, besides the quality of the writing itself, the perspective of the Thai bar girl scene seems grossly exaggerated. I'm not a bar girl myself so I don't profess to know all about the industry, but it seems that at least the girl(s) involved would have been a bit more "smooth" (the Thai word is "nien"/"เนียน") at whatever they were up to. A lot of things just seemed too dam_n obvious for me to believe that anyone, whether Thai or farang, would fall for.

If you're looking for tips on how the vast majority of Thai women behave, don't look for it in "Private Dancer". And even if you ARE interested in how bar girls behave, and their ways of scamming you, I think this book might not help that much either. I'm sure a lot of them are a lot smarter than the woman in the book, and will probably use less obvious methods.

[Mobi]

I read "Private Dancer" about a year or so ago, after having heard about it for so long. As the comments I'd heard about it ranged from "absolutely true" to "scandalous" to whatever, I started reading it with hope that it would provide some eye-opening/entertaining/informative insight.

It was none of the above. I was disappointed by the quality of the writing (I'm an avid reader and have been reading classic English literature since 3rd grade) and basically by the whole story. The plot seemed all mixed up and scenes jumped around.. dunno, just didn't seem like a "real book", felt rather amateurish. (Not that I am capable of writing quality literature myself.)

A

Ok, besides the quality of the writing itself, the perspective of the Thai bar girl scene seems grossly exaggerated. I'm not a bar girl myself so I don't profess to know all about the industry, but it seems that at least the girl(s) involved would have been a bit more "smooth" (the Thai word is "nien"/"เนียน") at whatever they were up to. A lot of things just seemed too dam_n obvious for me to believe that anyone, whether Thai or farang, would fall for.

If you're looking for tips on how the vast majority of Thai women behave, don't look for it in "Private Dancer". And even if you ARE interested in how bar girls behave, and their ways of scamming you, I think this book might not help that much either. I'm sure a lot of them are a lot smarter than the woman in the book, and will probably use less obvious methods.

As already stated , I too feel the quality of the writing leaves much to be desired.

I also feel there are many inaccuracies, and in general the story is a very extreme example of what may happen to hapless farangs.

Having said all that, I can assure you, on the back of more than 30 years experience in this country, that the general thrust is quite typical of the situations that arise. Much of what the woman in the book does is standard procedure, and what should amaze you is how many men are taken in by it. Even for those who have read the read book and have warned others that this can happen, it still happens to them.

I don't believe the women are stupid. They know their 'mark' and they know the influence (spell) they have over the farang, and they behave accordingly.

In this, the book is a salutary message for those willing to learn.

[siamesekitty]

Agree with you Mobi, just think the women in real life are a lot smarter than in the book. And I'm sure many farangs are taken in by their tricks, just... with such obvious signs as in the book?? Methinks the real women of the night have better acting/manipulation skills than whatsername (Joy?)

[Prakanong]

Agree with you Mobi, just think the women in real life are a lot smarter than in the book. And I'm sure many farangs are taken in by their tricks, just... with such obvious signs as in the book?? Methinks the real women of the night have better acting/manipulation skills than whatsername (Joy?)

A lot of the time the girls do not have to be or act a lot smarter - the guy already beleives what he does so it does not take much for the girl to reinforce that.

The White Knight sysndrome is truly alive and well also and even for a time the girl might even think she is being "Saved" too.

[beginner]

Agree with you all, just about.

Stephen Leather doesn't need me to defend his writing. His many excellent books and Television adaptations speak for themselves.

This particular story was originally put on the internet for free downloading and presumably didn't go through the usual editing procedures. Its still a good read.

White Knight syndrome and Thai Fever is certainly alive and well. The economy of Pattaya, and the secondary Isaan economic hinterland is partially basd on it.

Money Number One for sure. For sure.

[Prakanong]

Agree with you all, just about.

Stephen Leather doesn't need me to defend his writing. His many excellent books and Television adaptations speak for themselves.

This particular story was originally put on the internet for free downloading and presumably didn't go through the usual editing procedures. Its still a good read.

White Knight syndrome and Thai Fever is certainly alive and well. The economy of Pattaya, and the secondary Isaan economic hinterland is partially basd on it.

Money Number One for sure. For sure.

Have you ever read the original Esquire article - the non-fiction version - its interesting to compare and contrast with the fictional account.

I am also not 100% on this but I have been told the Esquire version did once appear in the "Femail" sextion of the Daily Mail - a paper Stephen used to write for I think.