Aussie Visa For Thai Girlfriend

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

I have to agree wholeheartedly with DrPP. Gburns is a the best source of info and you should listen to all the advice he gives when applying for a Visa. I am on a sponsorship 457 Visa in Oz (ie a non-res) and the 48R tourist visa was granted to my TG with a whole lot of paperwork. I am not sure I will provide as much this time as the embassy only considered about half of it. But the more the better. Gburns knows his onions as they say. To all board members looking for a visa to Oz follows his advice. Sorry Gburns if this gives you added workload!!!
cheers

watchoutfarang

Awww shucks.....now I am all embarassed.

Thanks mate

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

Ok what was the substance of the stat dec? I.e. what was it a declaration of?
As for this debate, I agree that Gburns advice is generally sound, but on this issue I would strongly disagree. You see the purpose of a stat dec is to make a declaration about something in the past. I.e. something that cannot be easily proved by supporting documents, it is not there to make a ‘promise’ about something in the future which is what has been suggested.

Why cant you make a SD for a future action ??.

For example one might make a stat dec about how they met their partner, or about your income if, for example you were a casual or self employed and didn’t have a wage and hence a fixed salary that could be proved. Like I said you don’t make a stat dec for something that might happen in the future. If DIAC want you to make a binding commitment of support they will get you to sign their specific forms.

One may also make a SD as an agreement to repay monies owed to another party....Talking about a private agreement not Immi

If someone wanted to provide a stat dec with an application then go ahead, but don’t do it as a substitute for the letter of invitation. You need one of those too, their documentation says so. Sure some here may have got away without one and used a stat dec, but I would bet my left and right goolies that those instances the cases pretty much stood for themselves anyway. A would also bet those who have been asked to provide one have been asked to do so to clarify a past issue and not as a form of assurance for something in the future.

If it covers the same ground as a letter of invite, then why not use it as a substitute ?? Surely the use of the SD on its own wouldnt make the processors as suspicious as the two documents in the same application ??

Bottom line is if DIAC wanted a stat dec they would ask for it and they would make it pretty clear what you are making the declaration for. What they do ask for is a letter of invite which covers the nature of the relationship, why the applicant is planning to go to Australia and what support you or others will be providing.

If you read my first post on this thread you will see it is an extract from the website concerning the requirements for a visitors visa....It does not mention a letter of invite.

As I have also said on numerous occasions and no one seems to believe me, giving too much information can be bad also. The thing it does is arouses suspicion and futher investigation. If the case is strong and clear just provide what they ask.

Too much information of the wrong type can be bad....I always advocate the KISS principle...The SD should only pertain to the facts and not be a long drawn out statement....I stated before that most people because a SD is a legal document people generally keep it short and to the point. Whereas when people write a letter, they do so in the same manner as they would a letter to Mum.

Here is an example of the SD I did for my wifes first visa to Oz.

I am making this declaration in support of a visitor visa application to Australia by.........................

I have known......................for a period of ........years/months

......................is making the application for the purpose of a holiday only

I will support .................. for all costs including Transportation, Accommodation, Medical and all general living costs.

...............................will be residing with me at the above address for the entirety of the visit

I will ensure that ..........................abides by the conditions of the visa if it is so granted

I am aware of the penalties if I am found to have made any declaration in this document that I know to be misleading or false.

The reason I did the SD was because she wasnt working and had no savings, therefore apart from her son, who is not considered a reason to return, She didnt have much in the way of evidence as to a reason to return. We were also weak on communication and photo evidence. The lady I spoke to suggested the SD to negate these areas of concern.

So I agree that it is not necessary to have the SD in every case, some applications will be strong enough on their own merits....but It is not going to hurt the application if the SD is submitted.

Edited January 8, 2008 by gburns57au

watchoutfarang · January 8, 2008

Ok what was the substance of the stat dec? I.e. what was it a declaration of?
As for this debate, I agree that Gburns advice is generally sound, but on this issue I would strongly disagree. You see the purpose of a stat dec is to make a declaration about something in the past. I.e. something that cannot be easily proved by supporting documents, it is not there to make a ‘promise’ about something in the future which is what has been suggested.

Why cant you make a SD for a future action ??.

For example one might make a stat dec about how they met their partner, or about your income if, for example you were a casual or self employed and didn’t have a wage and hence a fixed salary that could be proved. Like I said you don’t make a stat dec for something that might happen in the future. If DIAC want you to make a binding commitment of support they will get you to sign their specific forms.

One may also make a SD as an agreement to repay monies owed to another party....Talking about a private agreement not Immi

If someone wanted to provide a stat dec with an application then go ahead, but don’t do it as a substitute for the letter of invitation. You need one of those too, their documentation says so. Sure some here may have got away without one and used a stat dec, but I would bet my left and right goolies that those instances the cases pretty much stood for themselves anyway. A would also bet those who have been asked to provide one have been asked to do so to clarify a past issue and not as a form of assurance for something in the future.

If it covers the same ground as a letter of invite, then why not use it as a substitute ??

Bottom line is if DIAC wanted a stat dec they would ask for it and they would make it pretty clear what you are making the declaration for. What they do ask for is a letter of invite which covers the nature of the relationship, why the applicant is planning to go to Australia and what support you or others will be providing.

If you read my first post on this thread you will see it is an extract from the website concerning the requirements for a visitors visa....It does not mention a letter of invite.

As I have also said on numerous occasions and no one seems to believe me, giving too much information can be bad also. The thing it does is arouses suspicion and futher investigation. If the case is strong and clear just provide what they ask.

Too much information of the wrong type can be bad....I always advocate the KISS principle...The SD should only pertain to the facts and not be a long drawn out statement....I stated before that most people because a SD is a legal document people generally keep it short and to the point. Whereas when people write a letter, they do so in the same manner as they would a letter to Mum.

Here is an example of the SD I did for my wifes first visa to Oz.

I am making this declaration in support of a visitor visa application to Australia by.........................

I have known......................for a period of ........years/months

......................is making the application for the purpose of a holiday only

I will support .................. for all costs including Transportation, Accommodation, Medical and all general living costs.

...............................will be residing with me at the above address for the entirety of the visit

I will ensure that ..........................abides by the conditions of the visa if it is so granted

I am aware of the penalties if I am found to have made any declaration in this document that I know to be misleading or false.

I used a letter of invite in my first application which was similar to Gburns' SD above. What I don't understnad is that it becomes a valid document when you walk intoyour bank and get a bank clerk to sign (this is just an example by the way as they are one of the many dignitaries with the power of signature) or even a postal worker.

To my mind it seems a little pointless and I am sure that most of the approved list would be reluctant to sign such a Stat Dec just in case of an overstay and being implicated in such matters. Please correct me if I am wrong

cheers

watchoutfarang

aquablue · January 8, 2008

In my experience, If you want a tourist visa for your girlfriend, she submits the application along with a letter of invitation from you and your bank statement showing funds in Oz. If the visa is for 6 months or more a chest XRay may be required. Thats IT! We have had 2 visas already.

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

I used a letter of invite in my first application which was similar to Gburns' SD above. What I don't understnad is that it becomes a valid document when you walk intoyour bank and get a bank clerk to sign (this is just an example by the way as they are one of the many dignitaries with the power of signature) or even a postal worker.
To my mind it seems a little pointless and I am sure that most of the approved list would be reluctant to sign such a Stat Dec just in case of an overstay and being implicated in such matters. Please correct me if I am wrong

cheers

watchoutfarang

Yes, you are wrong....the co signer (Authority) is merely witnessing the signature of the person making the declaration....They are not signing as to the veracity of the declaration. Therefore they can not be implicated in anything that may arise from their signature. As such it is only the declarant that is reponsible for the content of the SD.

CbrLad · January 8, 2008

Ok what was the substance of the stat dec? I.e. what was it a declaration of?
As for this debate, I agree that Gburns advice is generally sound, but on this issue I would strongly disagree. You see the purpose of a stat dec is to make a declaration about something in the past. I.e. something that cannot be easily proved by supporting documents, it is not there to make a ‘promise’ about something in the future which is what has been suggested.

Why cant you make a SD for a future action ??.

One may also make a SD as an agreement to repay monies owed

If it covers the same ground as a letter of invite, then why not use it as a substitute ??

Bottom line is if DIAC wanted a stat dec they would ask for it and they would make it pretty clear what you are making the declaration for. What they do ask for is a letter of invite which covers the nature of the relationship, why the applicant is planning to go to Australia and what support you or others will be providing.

If you read my first post on this thread you will see it is an extract from the website concerning the requirements for a visitors visa....It does not mention a letter of invite.

As I have also said on numerous occasions and no one seems to believe me, giving too much information can be bad also. The thing it does is arouses suspicion and futher investigation. If the case is strong and clear just provide what they ask.

Too much information of the wrong type can be bad....I always advocate the KISS principle...The SD should only pertain to the facts and not be a long drawn out statement....I stated before that most people because a SD is a legal document people generally keep it short and to the point. Whereas when people write a letter, they do so in the same manner as they would a letter to Mum.

This is like banging my head up against a wall!!!!! For one read the document check list for a 676 visa (link in previous post) as to what is required to be presented for a visitors visa, you have missed the letter in you first post. It QUITE CLEARLY states under Other Documents, point C that if the purpose of the visit is to visit faimily or friends that a letter of invite is required. See letter, not stat dec. It goes futher to say if they (you) are paying for the vist that they are to provide evidence of sufficent funds to pay for the trip. Again no mention of stat dec ANYWHERE.

You are right on one point the letter shouldn't be rambling, it should just state the facts and be addressed like any BUSINESS letter. Do some searches for UK visa's and you will see some great examples of letters of invitation. The letter(which the stat dec example above does not cover) should cover more the aspects of your relationship to the applicatant (not just how long you have known them), WHY the person is coming to Australia, your employment status, how much money your earn etc etc. You should be able to do it in 1 page by keeping to the point.

This is a link to the AG's site on Federal Stat Decs (you are aware there are several types aren't you?)

http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page/...mationsheet#s16

As for too much information it can be bad. I will tell you why. When processing these things the staff have a bullshit filter. They know what people do to cover things and providing too much information is one way of doing it. So too much information goes into the lets look deeper file. Keep it to what they want, keep it honest and the processing is much simplier. If your case is sound then there will be no issue at all.

Edited January 8, 2008 by CbrLad

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

In my experience, If you want a tourist visa for your girlfriend, she submits the application along with a letter of invitation from you and your bank statement showing funds in Oz. If the visa is for 6 months or more a chest XRay may be required. Thats IT! We have had 2 visas already.

I would think that you would have to submitted more than that Aquablue....in fact I know that you would have.....again my first post on this thread explains the requirements needed.

But as I have said before.....it is not essential to have an SD and a letter of introduction may well suffice....but it is not going to disadvantage the applicant if the sponsor submits a SD rather than the letter....especially if they feel the application is not as strong as it could be.

CbrLad · January 8, 2008

In my experience, If you want a tourist visa for your girlfriend, she submits the application along with a letter of invitation from you and your bank statement showing funds in Oz. If the visa is for 6 months or more a chest XRay may be required. Thats IT! We have had 2 visas already.

You are spot on, that is all they ask for and all they want, well from the 'sponsor' anyway.

Edited January 8, 2008 by CbrLad

aquablue · January 8, 2008

Im telling you the truth gburns. An application, letter of invitation, copy of bank statement and thats it! I had the letter of invitation signed by a JP and the bank statement too. But immigration has told us that isnt required. Just those 2 documents signed by yourself and its ok.

Many people told me we would have a hard time getting my girfriend a visa to Oz, but as with most things look at the home page for OZ immigration and do what they say and you get it.

Application, letter of invitation, and bank statement. Chest XRay if longer than 6 months.

CbrLad · January 8, 2008

Im telling you the truth gburns. An application, letter of invitation, copy of bank statement and thats it! I had the letter of invitation signed by a JP and the bank statement too. But immigration has told us that isnt required. Just those 2 documents signed by yourself and its ok.
Many people told me we would have a hard time getting my girfriend a visa to Oz, but as with most things look at the home page for OZ immigration and do what they say and you get it.

Application, letter of invitation, and bank statement. Chest XRay if longer than 6 months.

The same here too for both my soon to be wife and her sister, exactly what you have written, which is what I have been saying all along.

Just to clarify with the X-ray's I am assuming it is only if the visa is valid for a single stay of longer than 6 months? Because it isn't a requirement if for example the visa is 12 month ME but with a max stay of 3 months per visit.

And the reason why a JP wasn't needed to counter sign your letter is also the same reason why a stat dec is not required.

aquablue · January 8, 2008

yep CBRLAD, was single entry more than 6 months.

Anyway, If people dont want to believe its that easy, let them carry on with the tales.

http://www.immi.gov.au/

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

This is like banging my head up against a wall!!!!! For one read the document check list for a 676 visa (link in previous post) as to what is required to be presented for a visitors visa, you have missed the letter in you first post. It QUITE CLEARLY states under Other Documents, point C that if the purpose of the visit is to visit faimily or friends that a letter of invite is required. See letter, not stat dec. It goes futher to say if they (you) are paying for the vist that they are to provide evidence of sufficent funds to pay for the trip. Again no mention of stat dec ANYWHERE.
You are right on one point the letter shouldn't be rambling, it should just state the facts and be addressed like any BUSINESS letter. Do some searches for UK visa's and you will see some great examples of letters of invitation. The letter(which the stat dec example above does not cover) should cover more the aspects of your relationship to the applicatant (not just how long you have known them), WHY the person is coming to Australia, your employment status, how much money your earn etc etc. You should be able to do it in 1 page by keeping to the point.

This is a link to the AG's site on Federal Stat Decs (you are aware there are several types aren't you?)

http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page/...mationsheet#s16

As for too much information it can be bad. I will tell you why. When processing these things the staff have a bullshit filter. They know what people do to cover things and providing too much information is one way of doing it. So too much information goes into the lets look deeper file. Keep it to what they want, keep it honest and the processing is much simplier. If your case is sound then there will be no issue at all.

You are being way too pedantic on this CBRlad.....

We have agreed that an SD is not compulsary.....My point is that it can help a weaker application especially on the issue of reason to return.....

The example given is sufficient.....It states WHY the applicant wants to come to Oz...for a holiday......proof of relationship, finances, employment is given in other evidence such as letters, photos, payslips, all of which are required if you are supporting the applicant. They want proof that you actually know the person making the application, they want proof that you have sufficient funds or access to funds enough to support the applicant. They will not take your word for it in a letter and this is not a recent thing either....I had to supply this proof with my first wifes application in 1995. I also had to fill out a maintenance undertaking form. I noticed afterwards that they actually kept one letter and some photos which I thought was strange.

Yes I am aware that there are different forms......relevence please ??

I am aware of the BS filters....I use them in my job too...But if someone submits a SD rather than a letter, would this really raise suspicions??....I doubt it very much. It is more likely that a lack of supporting evidence such as photos, letters etc... would raise more alarms than a Stat Dec.

Which brings me to this point....

Aquablue

It is very unlikely that you would have been granted a visa without supporting evidence...for instance....what you have listed in no way gives a reason to return (which is stated on the application document checklist)....for that the applicant needs to show something like property ownership, employment with leave permission, business ownership. And as I have said previously...thay are not going to take your word in a letter that you have known the applicant for however long....they require some proof of that, letters, photos, phone bills.

What you are telling me is that you and your partner submitted an application...a letter of invitation from you and a bank statement showing that you have a regular income or sufficient funds and that is all....with lax Immi processes like that it is no wonder that so many can overstay and the snakeheads have such an easy time. Personally from my own and other peoples experiences and that includes the many applications I have personally assisted here in Oz away from this site....I just cant believe that.

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

The same here too for both my soon to be wife and her sister, exactly what you have written, which is what I have been saying all along.
Just to clarify with the X-ray's I am assuming it is only if the visa is valid for a single stay of longer than 6 months? Because it isn't a requirement if for example the visa is 12 month ME but with a max stay of 3 months per visit.

And the reason why a JP wasn't needed to counter sign your letter is also the same reason why a stat dec is not required.

There is also an x ray requirement for study even on the visitor visa.

Edited January 8, 2008 by gburns57au

aquablue · January 8, 2008

Well gburns, thats ok. Believe what you like, we are happily in OZ. Those snakehead comments only add to your lack of knowledge.

Best regards.

http://www.immi.gov.au/

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

And the reason why a JP wasn't needed to counter sign your letter is also the same reason why a stat dec is not required.

And why I have said it isnt a requirement but rather it can be an assistance....

gee talk about beating ones head...

This was debated here a long time ago and I still maintain the same stance now as I did then.

gburns57au · January 8, 2008

Well gburns, thats ok. Believe what you like, we are happily in OZ. Those snakehead comments only add to your lack of knowledge.
Best regards.

http://www.immi.gov.au/

Seeing as you only joined yesterday....I will cut you some slack...

but just to fill you in....I have been doing this for a number of years....and not just on this site...For someone with a lack of knowledge I have been reasonably successful with the applications that I have assisted with off board.....100% so far....that includes various types of visas and not just 676 visas.

Been there and done that old son.....and courtesy of this site...I will soon have the T shirt to prove it.

Edited January 8, 2008 by gburns57au

CbrLad · January 8, 2008

You are being way too pedantic on this CBRlad.....
We have agreed that an SD is not compulsary.....My point is that it can help a weaker application especially on the issue of reason to return.....

Yes, same with you.....

Now you have hit the nail on the head, it MAY help a weaker application I will agree to that. In that case the stat dec should address the potential area's of weakness. I will not backdown on my assertion that it should, in no way, shape or form be used as a SUBSTITUTE for a letter of invitation and would be needed only in exception circumstances not as a normal thing as suggested. Again the stat dec should address matters of fact to alleivate the concerncs of DIAC and should not be used to make promises that the missus will comply with the regulations. That is one thing you cannot do, make assurances someone will do as they say.

The example given is sufficient.....It states WHY the applicant wants to come to Oz...for a holiday......proof of relationship, finances, employment is given in other evidence such as letters, photos, payslips, all of which are required if you are supporting the applicant. They want proof that you actually know the person making the application, they want proof that you have sufficient funds or access to funds enough to support the applicant. They will not take your word for it in a letter and this is not a recent thing either....I had to supply this proof with my first wifes application in 1995. I also had to fill out a maintenance undertaking form. I noticed afterwards that they actually kept one letter and some photos which I thought was strange.

Your example didn't give any proof of anything, it was mearly a statement. You are correct the proof is elsewhere. A stat dec becomes needed when there is something that you cannot prove. I also beg to differ about the level of proof required though. My experiance is exactly the same as aquablue, and mirrors EXACTLY the advice that DIAC gives, follow the links I provided. Now yes I know that you cut and pasted this info sheet http://www.vfs-au.net/forms/Info_Sheet_5_V...lish_July06.pdf and it has some extra requirements, most of which would be more than suitable to be covered in said letter of invitation.

I am aware of the BS filters....I use them in my job too...But if someone submits a SD rather than a letter, would this really raise suspicions??....I doubt it very much. It is more likely that a lack of supporting evidence such as photos, letters etc... would raise more alarms than a Stat Dec.

Maybe, maybe not, it is the whole package remember. I would throw it in the bin though because what has been asked to be provided hasn't, which is a letter of invitation.

Which brings me to this point....
Aquablue

It is very unlikely that you would have been granted a visa without supporting evidence...for instance....what you have listed in no way gives a reason to return (which is stated on the application document checklist)....for that the applicant needs to show something like property ownership, employment with leave permission, business ownership. And as I have said previously...thay are not going to take your word in a letter that you have known the applicant for however long....they require some proof of that, letters, photos, phone bills.

What you are telling me is that you and your partner submitted an application...a letter of invitation from you and a bank statement showing that you have a regular income or sufficient funds and that is all....with lax Immi processes like that it is no wonder that so many can overstay and the snakeheads have such an easy time. Personally from my own and other peoples experiences and that includes the many applications I have personally assisted here in Oz away from this site....I just cant believe that.

My experiance mirrors that of Aquablue for a 100% success rate too, and I don't in any way think it is an example of lax immigration process. It would appear that his partner, like mine submitted EXACTLY what immigration asked for, they looked at the whole packed and issued said visa. Maybe one of the reasons you guys have so much trouble is you go over the top, which gets back to my point above about too much raising suspicion.

gburns57au · January 9, 2008

It would appear that his partner, like mine submitted EXACTLY what immigration asked for, they looked at the whole packed and issued said visa. Maybe one of the reasons you guys have so much trouble is you go over the top, which gets back to my point above about too much raising suspicion.

Exactly what did your partner submit then ??

I have been talking about the whole package......the complete application....not just what the sponsor has to submit.

With a 100% success rate personally and with the success rate that has been achieved on this site with the advice given by myself and others.....what makes you think anyone has had trouble...Quite the opposite.

Probably 50% of the applications I have been involved in have used SD's and not letters....No applications have been refused and no one has been told that it wasnt required....in every case the SD was accepted.

As you well know mate, most of the knowledge I have garnered is through my own and others experiences.....not through reading every page of the website...I use the website for reference purposes but I have found that to use it as the be all and end all...causes more dilemmas then not.

I am not going to get into the semantics of what should or should not be declared....Suffice to say that the use of the SD instead of a letter has not caused anyone any problems....and in some cases probably has assisted the applications....forget the website mate....the proof is in the amount of successful applications made as against those refused....those figures will do me mate.

Mighty Mouse · January 9, 2008

A very interesting debate on the use of Statutory Declarations for a Tourist Visa application. Good points made by all.

A statutory declaration is a written statement declared to be true in the presence of an authorised witness. A person wishing to use a statutory declaration in connection with a law of the Commonwealth, the Australian Capital Territory or certain other Territories must make the declaration in accordance with the Statutory Declarations Act 1959 (the Act) and the Statutory Declarations Regulations 1993 (the Regulations). Source: Australian Government-Attorney Generals Dept.

This obviously is for Stat. Decs. made under Commonwealth law.

A statutory declaration made in another country (outside Australia ) must be made pursuant to the statutory provisions of that country or before an Australian Consular Officer. Note: a statutory declaration made in an Australian Consulate must be made pursuant to the Statutory Declaration Act 1959 (Commonwealth).

A statutory declaration made within a State other than New South Wales must be made pursuant to the appropriate local Act:

ACT Statutory Declarations Act 1959 (Commonwealth)

Northern Territory Oaths Act 1939

Queensland The Oaths Act 1867 to 1988

South Australia Oaths Act 1936

Tasmania Oaths Act 2001

Victoria Evidence Act 1958

Western Australia Oaths Affidavits and Statutory Declarations Act 2005.

Statutory Declaration Form

A statutory declaration made within New South Wales must comply with s24 Oaths Act 1900 and take the following form:

"Statutory Declaration

I, (name of declarant), do solemnly and sincerely declare that ... and I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the Oaths Act 1900.

(date and place of declaration)".

A Stat. Dec. made under the Oaths Act is information that you would be prepared to give in a court of law. Sworn evidence/information made in a court of law usually always refers to fact.

A future prediction is not fact. In a court of law if a witness tried to introduce into evidence his/her prediction for a future event, the opposing counsel would immediately object...unless that witness first proved to the court that they had certain expertise/credentials that qualified them to make such prediction.

With that in mind, for a sponsor to state in a Stat. Dec. that they would ensure that all conditions of a tourist visa will be strictly adhered to by the applicant, carries no weight at all. (as far as a Stat. Dec. is concerned.)

This type of assurance would be better suited in the letter of invitation.

The only time that a Stat. Dec. may assist in a Tourist Visa application, would be when certain documents, required to to support a claim made by the applicant/sponsor, cannot be produced. eg. proof of income, proof of employment etc.

Such cases would be very rare. If an application was so weak that it required the support of evidence given in a Stat. Dec. or the support of a letter from a local MP, then I would suggest that the applicant and sponsor postpone the application until such time that they were able to gather enough pertinent evidence to meet the requirements.

gburns57au · January 9, 2008

A Stat. Dec. made under the Oaths Act is information that you would be prepared to give in a court of law. Sworn evidence/information made in a court of law usually always refers to fact.
A future prediction is not fact. In a court of law if a witness tried to introduce into evidence his/her prediction for a future event, the opposing counsel would immediately object...unless that witness first proved to the court that they had certain expertise/credentials that qualified them to make such prediction.

With that in mind, for a sponsor to state in a Stat. Dec. that they would ensure that all conditions of a tourist visa will be strictly adhered to by the applicant, carries no weight at all. (as far as a Stat. Dec. is concerned.)

This type of assurance would be better suited in the letter of invitation.

The only time that a Stat. Dec. may assist in a Tourist Visa application, would be when certain documents, required to to support a claim made by the applicant/sponsor, cannot be produced. eg. proof of income, proof of employment etc.

Such cases would be very rare. If an application was so weak that it required the support of evidence given in a Stat. Dec. or the support of a letter from a local MP, then I would suggest that the applicant and sponsor postpone the application until such time that they were able to gather enough pertinent evidence to meet the requirements.

Stat Decs have many uses, it can be used to give an assurance to future events....it can be used in the situation where one party owes money to another party...they make an agreement using a Stat Dec to arrange a repayment system. If the declarant then fails to follow the agreement as stipulated then it can be used in court as evidence. This is one example where the future prediction can be shown and the document tendered as evidence.

The assurance of meeting visa conditions are not fact.....it is an assurance, much the same as the above example.....however if the declarant makes such an assurance and it can be shown that he had no intention to do so, He has knowingly made a false and misleading statement. That is prosecutable. However that is just one part of the content....you are also declaring other things....such as the time you known the applicant...If it is found that you have misrepresented this.....prosecutable.....that the purpose of the application is for a holiday only.....again if she is found to be working and the declarant has knowledge of this....prosecutable.

Each and every part of the content must be true and correct.....If you are found to have mislead the Dept on any one part in any way, you are liable for prosecution. So for instance.....if you state that you will ensure that the applicant will abide by the visa conditions ( I didnt and have never used the word strictly)....and when they get here, you do not take reasonable steps to ensure that they do....the main points here are working, overstaying and commiting crimes....you have made a misleading declaration.....prosecutable. By giving this leagally binding assurance it can be used to show a reason to return...you, as the sponsor are accepting that responsibilty. The reason to return as we all know is one of the biggest sticking points and the hardest to prove...it accounts for a good proportion of refusals.

As you said....the only time it may assist is when proof of evidence cant be produced.....such as proof of employment (a big factor in the reason to return) And this is what I have said all along....the Stat Dec can assist with applications where the application is not as strong as it could be. If you are submitting the Stat Dec....then the need for a letter of invite lessens because it is basically covered by the Stat Dec and the other evidence submitted.

Giving an assurance in a letter of invite has no legal weight at all......in Stat Dec form...it does carry legal weight.

Now considering that many of us go up there and use our holidays to lodge the first application and bring our partners back with us, most times on a restricted time limit....Doesnt it make sense to ensure that the application is as strong as possible in the first instance....we dont want to have delays in the processing....If we have to start running around to clarify this and that on a 2 or 3 week holiday the chances are that our partner will not be making the flight back with us.

I would suggest that a letter fom an MP would only be used at an appeal level, not at the application level.

To all

Anyway.....we are going around in circles here.....MM we went through this before....we will still have to agree to disagree mate.

Giving quotes from websites is all too easy...but again they are not the be all and end all....Most of these cover a general and average situation...real life is not always like that. Which is why I asked the OP to read the requirements and if he has a more specific question, we would do our best to assist. All this stuff about, you must have this and you must have that applies to a perfect and ideal situation....we are not always dealing with that situation....sometimes we need to be more lateral in our thinking.

We have all agreed that the use of an SD can assist with applications that are not as strong as others. What else is there to say. (please note the lack of the question mark....I am not asking a question)

Edited January 9, 2008 by gburns57au

Mighty Mouse · January 9, 2008

Good on ya Graham. I hafta give you points for sticking to your guns.

The only point that I wanted to make regarding the use of a Stat. Dec. by a sponsor of a Tourist Visa applicant, was with regard to the sponsor giving assurances that the applicant would abide by all visa conditions.

The applicant has already given this assurance by signing the declaration section in the 48R Form. If certain visa conditions are breached, the applicant is the one targeted. I'm suggesting that any additional assurance given by the sponsor, whether it be in a letter of invitation or on a Stat. Dec. form, carries no real significance.

I have just spoken with the Dept. of Immigration here in Sydney about an unrelated matter but put the discussion scenario to them. The representative that I spoke with said that a Stat. Dec. could be used to provide the compelling reason to return to Thailand, particularly in the absence of any employers letter or other proofs of the need to return, but not for the purposes of giving visa condition assurances.

Take that for what it is worth.

CbrLad · January 9, 2008

It would appear that his partner, like mine submitted EXACTLY what immigration asked for, they looked at the whole packed and issued said visa. Maybe one of the reasons you guys have so much trouble is you go over the top, which gets back to my point above about too much raising suspicion.

Exactly what did your partner submit then ??

I have been talking about the whole package......the complete application....not just what the sponsor has to submit.

With a 100% success rate personally and with the success rate that has been achieved on this site with the advice given by myself and others.....what makes you think anyone has had trouble...Quite the opposite.

Probably 50% of the applications I have been involved in have used SD's and not letters....No applications have been refused and no one has been told that it wasnt required....in every case the SD was accepted.

As you well know mate, most of the knowledge I have garnered is through my own and others experiences.....not through reading every page of the website...I use the website for reference purposes but I have found that to use it as the be all and end all...causes more dilemmas then not.

I am not going to get into the semantics of what should or should not be declared....Suffice to say that the use of the SD instead of a letter has not caused anyone any problems....and in some cases probably has assisted the applications....forget the website mate....the proof is in the amount of successful applications made as against those refused....those figures will do me mate.

I was talking about what I provided as part of the app, not what the missus submitted as a whole. She submitted all the extra's that were asked for on the link that I have. She didn't provide everything from the information you copied from the Bangkok embassy website.

As for troubles, reading this sight there are so many tales of whoa just made the assumption people had issues. Guess if no one had an issue there would be no need for this board.

Also as you know my advice is not just from reading the DIAC website. It is from experiance too and from the advice of some of my collegues who foreign wives who have been through it all before and a friends who worked at DIAC who in the past has been posted to countries in SE Asia. Thats how I know what goes on 'out' the back.

Also I never said an SD won't work, for most strong applications it is a rubber staming exercise anyway.

Good on ya Graham. I hafta give you points for sticking to your guns.
The only point that I wanted to make regarding the use of a Stat. Dec. by a sponsor of a Tourist Visa applicant, was with regard to the sponsor giving assurances that the applicant would abide by all visa conditions.

The applicant has already given this assurance by signing the declaration section in the 48R Form. If certain visa conditions are breached, the applicant is the one targeted. I'm suggesting that any additional assurance given by the sponsor, whether it be in a letter of invitation or on a Stat. Dec. form, carries no real significance.

I have just spoken with the Dept. of Immigration here in Sydney about an unrelated matter but put the discussion scenario to them. The representative that I spoke with said that a Stat. Dec. could be used to provide the compelling reason to return to Thailand, particularly in the absence of any employers letter or other proofs of the need to return, but not for the purposes of giving visa condition assurances.

Take that for what it is worth.

Indeed most correct, especially on the aussuance matter. The only way DIAC can make someone else accountable and I repeat accountable is to get them to sign THEIR paperwork and maybe give a financial bond which they loose if the visa holder fails to comply. It would be very rare for a tourist visa issued in Thailand, but common for business and family visitor. No one can sign anything, SD or otherwise to say that someone else will abide by their visa conditions and as I said all along about SD they are used when you want to say something that you cannot otherwise prove. That is when you put your hand on your heart and write an SD. If all you are doing is asking someone to come to Aus and are paying for them, just write a business style letter saying so, it is a statement no a decleration. Easy as if you keep it simple.

I guess no one will back down on the matter, so we will have to agree to disagree. What I will concede is your 'method' would appear to work, but so does the method that several others including myself have used too. Indeed I have done EXACTLY what the DIAC website has asked for with NO variations. So anyone intending to invite their partner to Aus and be their fiscal 'sponsor', read the whole lot and do what you think is right.

PS Gburns, your example about using stat dec's to pay back money, you got to be careful. One thing I know about stat dec's is they are made in reference to something in law or government legislation, hence why in Aus we have Commonwealth stat dec's and seperate state stat dec's. You cannot write a stat dec about a civil matter, which unless monies were owed to government would mean a stat dec is wrong. As for an Immigration matter it does relate to a commonwealth legislation issue so would be valid, provided it was done for the right reason. Inviting one to Aus IMI is not the right reason.

gburns57au · January 9, 2008

Good on ya Graham. I hafta give you points for sticking to your guns.
The only point that I wanted to make regarding the use of a Stat. Dec. by a sponsor of a Tourist Visa applicant, was with regard to the sponsor giving assurances that the applicant would abide by all visa conditions.

The applicant has already given this assurance by signing the declaration section in the 48R Form. If certain visa conditions are breached, the applicant is the one targeted. I'm suggesting that any additional assurance given by the sponsor, whether it be in a letter of invitation or on a Stat. Dec. form, carries no real significance.

I have just spoken with the Dept. of Immigration here in Sydney about an unrelated matter but put the discussion scenario to them. The representative that I spoke with said that a Stat. Dec. could be used to provide the compelling reason to return to Thailand, particularly in the absence of any employers letter or other proofs of the need to return, but not for the purposes of giving visa condition assurances.

Take that for what it is worth.

I am going to do it you again MM.....

Part of providing the reason to return is the assurance by the sponsor that the applicant will not overstay....

gburns57au · January 9, 2008

I was talking about what I provided as part of the app, not what the missus submitted as a whole. She submitted all the extra's that were asked for on the link that I have. She didn't provide everything from the information you copied from the Bangkok embassy website.
As for troubles, reading this sight there are so many tales of whoa just made the assumption people had issues. Guess if no one had an issue there would be no need for this board.

Also as you know my advice is not just from reading the DIAC website. It is from experiance too and from the advice of some of my collegues who foreign wives who have been through it all before and a friends who worked at DIAC who in the past has been posted to countries in SE Asia. Thats how I know what goes on 'out' the back.

Also I never said an SD won't work, for most strong applications it is a rubber staming exercise anyway.

Indeed most correct, especially on the aussuance matter. The only way DIAC can make someone else accountable and I repeat accountable is to get them to sign THEIR paperwork and maybe give a financial bond which they loose if the visa holder fails to comply. It would be very rare for a tourist visa issued in Thailand, but common for business and family visitor. No one can sign anything, SD or otherwise to say that someone else will abide by their visa conditions and as I said all along about SD they are used when you want to say something that you cannot otherwise prove. That is when you put your hand on your heart and write an SD. If all you are doing is asking someone to come to Aus and are paying for them, just write a business style letter saying so, it is a statement no a decleration. Easy as if you keep it simple.

I guess no one will back down on the matter, so we will have to agree to disagree. What I will concede is your 'method' would appear to work, but so does the method that several others including myself have used too. Indeed I have done EXACTLY what the DIAC website has asked for with NO variations. So anyone intending to invite their partner to Aus and be their fiscal 'sponsor', read the whole lot and do what you think is right.

PS Gburns, your example about using stat dec's to pay back money, you got to be careful. One thing I know about stat dec's is they are made in reference to something in law or government legislation, hence why in Aus we have Commonwealth stat dec's and seperate state stat dec's. You cannot write a stat dec about a civil matter, which unless monies were owed to government would mean a stat dec is wrong. As for an Immigration matter it does relate to a commonwealth legislation issue so would be valid, provided it was done for the right reason. Inviting one to Aus IMI is not the right reason.

Yes we did have a problem with semantics there....when I refer to "you" I am generally referring to the application as a whole and the couple involved....not just to the singular....That is one of my little idio's.....got to try and correct that.

People do have issues....hopefully prior to the lodgement....what we basically do here is to advise on the best course for that particular appliccation to assist them in getting their visas. One of the issues we see is the inability to provide a reason to return and as MM has said from his chat with Immi today. The stat dec with the assurances does cover that area as the sponsor is taking responsibility for the applicant while they are in the country.

The example I used was one I had encountered before....the form used for that would be the general SD form you can get from the PO...and would be between two private parties....I have utilised this previously...I was advised by the court to do this as a precursor to court action to retrieve the money...and it would show the court that I had made genuine efforts to resolve it before taking court action.

As I have said....it is unlikely that any prosecution would be brought against a sponsor who had made the assurances with good intent....but theoretically it can be done.

CbrLad · January 9, 2008

Good on ya Graham. I hafta give you points for sticking to your guns.
The only point that I wanted to make regarding the use of a Stat. Dec. by a sponsor of a Tourist Visa applicant, was with regard to the sponsor giving assurances that the applicant would abide by all visa conditions.

The applicant has already given this assurance by signing the declaration section in the 48R Form. If certain visa conditions are breached, the applicant is the one targeted. I'm suggesting that any additional assurance given by the sponsor, whether it be in a letter of invitation or on a Stat. Dec. form, carries no real significance.

I have just spoken with the Dept. of Immigration here in Sydney about an unrelated matter but put the discussion scenario to them. The representative that I spoke with said that a Stat. Dec. could be used to provide the compelling reason to return to Thailand, particularly in the absence of any employers letter or other proofs of the need to return, but not for the purposes of giving visa condition assurances.

Take that for what it is worth.

I am going to do it you again MM.....

Part of providing the reason to return is the assurance by the sponsor that the applicant will not overstay....

Except of course that as the "sponsor" it is not for you to say and declare, because you have NO control over the actions of the other person, the applicant in this case. It becomes yet another hollow promise that has no real meaning. Any stat dec of this nature would have to come from the applicant. You can only make a declartion about yourself and your actions. Ie I decalare that I earn xxxx number of dollars from these sources bla bla bla.

In my case I made a statement in my letter about my current situaton which went in some ways to back up my missus's argument of why she is will leave Australia. What I couldn't do is offer any gurantee she will comply. For all I know she may get to Aus, ditch me and run off and be a gypsy. See the point?

I would be loathed to see gys running off making stat dec's saying that their partner will comply with visa conditions and requriements.

CbrLad · January 9, 2008

Yes we did have a problem with semantics there....when I refer to "you" I am generally referring to the application as a whole and the couple involved....not just to the singular....That is one of my little idio's.....got to try and correct that.

The wonders of the english language......

People do have issues....hopefully prior to the lodgement....what we basically do here is to advise on the best course for that particular appliccation to assist them in getting their visas. One of the issues we see is the inability to provide a reason to return and as MM has said from his chat with Immi today. The stat dec with the assurances does cover that area as the sponsor is taking responsibility for the applicant while they are in the country..

You cannot take responsibity, you cannot control the actions of someone else.

The example I used was one I had encountered before....the form used for that would be the general SD form you can get from the PO...and would be between two private parties....I have utilised this previously...I was advised by the court to do this as a precursor to court action to retrieve the money...and it would show the court that I had made genuine efforts to resolve it before taking court action.
As I have said....it is unlikely that any prosecution would be brought against a sponsor who had made the assurances with good intent....but theoretically it can be done.

Interesting, as I have been in the same boat back in 2006, an ex owed me $3000. I was advised by the ACT small claims court to issue a letter of demand to the person setting out the case as to why the monies were owed and requesting payment of face legal action. This was to a specfic format, certainly not a stat dec. Under ACT law you cannot take someone to court unless you have issued a demand letter. The thing was I DID have to attach a stat dec outlining the circumstances of why the money was owed, which was used instead of an invoice but that is all.

The lady agreed to repay, but her response was as a letter, not a stat dec, which, coupled with the letter of demand could have been used in court if she failed to abide by her promise and I decided to take her to court.

Maybe WA has different laws to the ACT, but in the ACT the letter of demand is the instrument for making the claim, not a stat dec. The stat dec was used to back up a claim I couldn't have otherwise proved, ie that I had loaned her money.

PS. I did get the money back, and I was bluffing, it wouldn't have been worth the effort to take her to court. If she had taken me to court, I probably would have lost, because it would have been my word (my stat dec actually) against hers.

gburns57au · January 9, 2008

Except of course that as the "sponsor" it is not for you to say and declare, because you have NO control over the actions of the other person, the applicant in this case. It becomes yet another hollow promise that has no real meaning. Any stat dec of this nature would have to come from the applicant. You can only make a declartion about yourself and your actions. Ie I decalare that I earn xxxx number of dollars from these sources bla bla bla.
In my case I made a statement in my letter about my current situaton which went in some ways to back up my missus's argument of why she is will leave Australia. What I couldn't do is offer any gurantee she will comply. For all I know she may get to Aus, ditch me and run off and be a gypsy. See the point?

I would be loathed to see gys running off making stat dec's saying that their partner will comply with visa conditions and requriements.

Ok....so she fills out a Stat dec saying that she promises to return at the end of the visa.....why would they believe that ?? In that case your back room guys would be suspicious...they would ask themselves...."why has she brought this up in the first place." See, my BS filter works fine

The Embassy people are looking for a third party assurance....in other words they want someone to blame...They dont want to say..."oh yeah, we granted that visa on the basis that she said she wouldnt overstay"

If the assurances have been made and the girl does a runner...it is then upto the sponsor to inform the Immigration people of the situation and assist them to track the girl down. This is stated on the website somewhere. By doing this you will not be taken to be at fault.

gburns57au · January 9, 2008

Interesting, as I have been in the same boat back in 2006, an ex owed me $3000. I was advised by the ACT small claims court to issue a letter of demand to the person setting out the case as to why the monies were owed and requesting payment of face legal action. This was to a specfic format, certainly not a stat dec. Under ACT law you cannot take someone to court unless you have issued a demand letter. The thing was I DID have to attach a stat dec outlining the circumstances of why the money was owed, which was used instead of an invoice but that is all.
The lady agreed to repay, but her response was as a letter, not a stat dec, which, coupled with the letter of demand could have been used in court if she failed to abide by her promise and I decided to take her to court.

Maybe WA has different laws to the ACT, but in the ACT the letter of demand is the instrument for making the claim, not a stat dec. The stat dec was used to back up a claim I couldn't have otherwise proved, ie that I had loaned her money.

PS. I did get the money back, and I was bluffing, it wouldn't have been worth the effort to take her to court. If she had taken me to court, I probably would have lost, because it would have been my word (my stat dec actually) against hers.

In my situation it was also a bluff....I got him to sign the Stat Dec....and it was in NSW not WA...I put in the content that he agreed the money was owed, with the dates of the original loan and what the loan was for along with a time payment plan...I was advised to do this by the Baliff of the court, (I had already served a letter of demand)...so it could be used in evidence if I wanted to proceed with the claim through the Small Claims Court. In the end I got one payment and he did a runner...it would have cost more to proceed than to drop it...so I took it no further...he passed away in a car accident a few years later.

CbrLad · January 9, 2008

Ok....so she fills out a Stat dec saying that she promises to return at the end of the visa.....why would they believe that ?? In that case your back room guys would be suspicious...they would ask themselves...."why has she brought this up in the first place." See, my BS filter works fine
The Embassy people are looking for a third party assurance....in other words they want someone to blame...They dont want to say..."oh yeah, we granted that visa on the basis that she said she wouldnt overstay"

If the assurances have been made and the girl does a runner...it is then upto the sponsor to inform the Immigration people of the situation and assist them to track the girl down. This is stated on the website somewhere. By doing this you will not be taken to be at fault.

I didn't say she would fill out a stat dec. I said any assurances of this nature would come from the applicant. As Mighty Mouse said, by signing the application they are agreeing to abide by visa conditions hence it is coming from the applicant. You have no right to speak for the applicant, nor make any promises that you will ensure that they will abide by their conditions.

When you sponsor someone for a visitors visa, stop and think what DIAC are asking you to do. The key is in what they are asking for from YOU. They are interested to know that there is some firendship/relationship between you and the applicant (hence the letter of invite) and if you are providing financial support, hence proof of income, money in bank etc if you are providing such support. They in most cases are not asking you to gurantee the applicant will abide by thier visa conditions and as such you cannot be held responsible for that person if they do not abide.

HOWEVER if they ask that you offer an aussrance, such as for the one needed for 679 visa (for example), then they will get you to sign one of THEIR forms, and may ask you to submit a bond. In this case again there is nothing you can do to control the actions of the other party, but if they don't abide then DIAC have you by the short and curly's, but only from a financial perspective.

See the subtle difference. It is there.

Mighty Mouse · January 9, 2008

The Embassy people are looking for a third party assurance....in other words they want someone to blame...They dont want to say..."oh yeah, we granted that visa on the basis that she said she wouldnt overstay"
If the assurances have been made and the girl does a runner...it is then upto the sponsor to inform the Immigration people of the situation and assist them to track the girl down.

Please quote the source of these revelations.

You need to be careful in advising others of your personal beliefs and methods. The vast majority of people who post visa questions in this forum request advice of the official procedure, and no where in the official procedure does it state that Stat. Decs. are required for a Tourist Visa application, nor does it state anywhere (that I know of anyway) that third party assurance is required for a 48R visa application.

The 48S Sponsored Family Visitor Visa - Subclass 679 - does have a sponsor obligation

Sponsor obligations

The sponsor should be confident that the applicant intends to abide by their visa conditions. Sponsors must, to the best of their ability:

* guarantee that their visitors will comply with all the conditions of their visa while in Australia, including departing Australia before their visas expire

* take responsibility for all financial obligations to the Australian Government incurred by their visitor during their stay in Australia.

If a visitor does not comply with all the conditions of their visa, the sponsor in most cases will:

* be unable to sponsor another visitor for this visa for five (5) years

* lose their security bond.

The family member sponsor may be required to post a security bond. There is no requirement for a Stat. Dec. to be furnished to the Dept. outlining sponsorship assurances.

Should the visitor not comply, there is no mention of prosecution for the sponsor.

Graham, go back and read the OP. The OP was obviously requiring a 48R visa. The 48S visa will not apply to him.

You answered him correctly in your original post of this thread and then complicated the matter by later advising the use of a SD.

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