Hollywood Buddha..

[meom]

I definately do not agree with all the things Hitler wanted to do...

So, which of the things that Hitler wanted to do DO you agree with?

He expanded the railroad system which initially was used for the wrong purposes but after the war formed the basis for a excellent transportation network.

[sriracha john]

He expanded the railroad system which initially was used for the wrong purposes but after the war formed the basis for a excellent transportation network.

Thank you meom for so graciously conceding that yes, indeed, perhaps the murder of 10 million people was indeed a "wrong purpose" in the effort to improve rail commerce.

***shaking my head in disbelief that we are even discussing the merits versus shortcomings of Adolf Hitler. What's next? "Satan really isn't all that bad?" "Pol Pot was just misunderstood?" ***

[Boon Mee]

He expanded the railroad system which initially was used for the wrong purposes but after the war formed the basis for a excellent transportation network.

Thank you meom for so graciously conceding that yes, indeed, perhaps the murder of 10 million people was indeed a "wrong purpose" in the effort to improve rail commerce.

***shaking my head in disbelief that we are even discussing the merits versus shortcomings of Adolf Hitler. What's next? "Satan really isn't all that bad?" "Pol Pot was just misunderstood?" ***

...or how about Saddam Hussien was not that bad!

[SoCal]

Doc, why was the bear pit created again?

PS- I heard Bush was the real director of the movie, Cheney wrote it, and Haliburton financed it.

You really have to give me a break when us Yanks have to take the blame for the Frogs.

Can't we be left alone with our freedom fries.

We are a fat, not so bright nation, with a few evil leaders. I think a bit of pitty is required, not hate.

[SoCal]

PS, same goes for that thread started by that conspiracy theorist Nemesis.

I just like myself, and value my time more than going back to that moronic thread.

[Dickie]

He expanded the railroad system which initially was used for the wrong purposes but after the war formed the basis for a excellent transportation network.

Thank you meom for so graciously conceding that yes, indeed, perhaps the murder of 10 million people was indeed a "wrong purpose" in the effort to improve rail commerce.

***shaking my head in disbelief that we are even discussing the merits versus shortcomings of Adolf Hitler. What's next? "Satan really isn't all that bad?" "Pol Pot was just misunderstood?" ***

...or how about Saddam Hussien was not that bad!

Stalin was worse than Hitler, Pol Pot was worse than Stalin.

Pol Pot anihilated about 25% of his people because they were too clever or skillful.

Stalin killed his opponents, plus anyone "to encourage the others" and caused mass starvation of his own people - 20 million+ - because of stupid policies.

Hitler exterminated his opponents and those he considered to be not true Germans.

AH was the only one out of the three who didn't embark - in his own (rather strange) mind - on the deliberate slaughter of his own kind.

Also, before the mental decline, his policies really did make things better for his country, unless you were one of the uentermenschen.

It's easy to take anyone who's done appalling things and say they never did any good. The first two didn't do anything good, if I remember correctly, but AH (mad and bad as he was) actually DID.

[meemiathai]

A few months ago I saw an American audience go wild as John Kerry finished his speech and there was an HUGE woman with a little face in the middle of her fat, blubbery head/neck who was crying hysterically and gushing about how wonderful John Kerry was.

I wanted to step into the TV and punch her in the face and tell her to get a grip on herself.

I cannot see the least problem with HUGE, little face, fat, blubbery head/neck, crying hysterically and gushing about.

But, to punch someone on the face?

Well, maybe because you are young.

Some people can be jealous but do not know it themselves.

[Boon Mee]

He expanded the railroad system which initially was used for the wrong purposes but after the war formed the basis for a excellent transportation network.

Thank you meom for so graciously conceding that yes, indeed, perhaps the murder of 10 million people was indeed a "wrong purpose" in the effort to improve rail commerce.

***shaking my head in disbelief that we are even discussing the merits versus shortcomings of Adolf Hitler. What's next? "Satan really isn't all that bad?" "Pol Pot was just misunderstood?" ***

...or how about Saddam Hussien was not that bad!

Stalin was worse than Hitler, Pol Pot was worse than Stalin.

Pol Pot anihilated about 25% of his people because they were too clever or skillful.

Stalin killed his opponents, plus anyone "to encourage the others" and caused mass starvation of his own people - 20 million+ - because of stupid policies.

Hitler exterminated his opponents and those he considered to be not true Germans.

AH was the only one out of the three who didn't embark - in his own (rather strange) mind - on the deliberate slaughter of his own kind.

Also, before the mental decline, his policies really did make things better for his country, unless you were one of the uentermenschen.

It's easy to take anyone who's done appalling things and say they never did any good. The first two didn't do anything good, if I remember correctly, but AH (mad and bad as he was) actually DID.

You forgot to mention Saddam, Dickie...

[Guest fj2003]

but also shame on everyone who beuse any holy symbole or person in these world

and please mention also

mr world policecop no 1

g.w.bush

in the name of world security as well as warlord of today

[Som Nam Na]

TRYING to put the thread back on track (difficult I know) but I'm actually agnostic.

I don't give a flying <deleted> at a rolling doughnut for any religion but i respect other peoples right to believe in whatever hogwash they like. (After all a lot of the Thai economy is based on farang idiots who believe they will find the perfect partner in a Thailand brothel).

I remember similar arguements about a film called the "Life Of Brian"......this dude Brian (AKA Jesus) and how he really didn't want to be the son of God, just a load of idiots thought he should be!......sums all religions up really.

But the long winded point is, if it annoys enough people....don't do it. So the guy probably thought he was being funny/sarcastic/cynical but he's retracted and apologised so what more can he do?

[bina]

I definately do not agree with all the things Hitler wanted to do but on the other hand if I see how the Palestinians get treated I wonder sometimes how things would be if Hitler had his way.

Sure behind a computer it is easy to comment but I feel happy I am neither Israeli or Palestinian cause I would not wish to be in the shit those lot are in

.

MEOM,

1.IF HITLER HAD HAD HIS WAY, U WOULDNT BE ENJOYING MY STRANGE, WEIRD , THREADS (AS BKK BARNEY CALLED ME) AS I WOULDNT HAVE BEEN BORN AS MOST OF MY RELATIVES WERE STARVED TO DEATH OR CREMATED, ETC;

2. LIKE I SAID ONCE BEFORE, COME AND VISIT ME I'M 12 KM FROM JERUSALEM ON A KIBBUTZ THAT JUST RECENTLY WAS IN ALL THE 'CHRISTIAN' NEWS DUE TO A CAVE BELONGING TO JOHN THE BAPTIST SITUATED ON OUR NECTARINE ORCHARDS.... COME AND BE ISRAELI FOR A WHILE, ITS ALWAYS EASIER TO CRITICIZE SOMEONE OR SOMETHING WHEN U ARE NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED; THE DAY I CAME BACK FROM THAILAND , MY 16 YR OLD SMS'D ME TO SAY SHE WAS OK, BUT A CLASS MATE WAS BLOWN UP ON A BUS NEAR HER HIGH SCHOOL... TRY LIVING IN THAT REALITY DAILY... ASK THE THAI WORKERS HERE HOW THEY LIKE THE PALESTINIANS (THEY DONT AS THEY TREAT THE THAI WORKERS LIKE DOGS, AND THE THAI CONSIDER THEM AS THIEVES, SMELLY, IMPOLITE ETC, WHERE AS ISRAELIS ARE JUST SMELLY AND IMPOLITE )

3. GEEZ, FIRST TIME I EVER GOT AGGRESSIVE BEHIND A COMPUTER; that's got to be a bad sign , no?

[Dickie]

HER HIGH SCHOOL... TRY LIVING IN THAT REALITY DAILY...

We did in the seventies in England, only it was the IRA doing the business. Israel ain't the only place for that to be a regular happening.

[SoCal]

Hey you Bush haters,

50 days left.

Electoral Votes

Like to vote?

Sucka

Guess there is no saving us Americans.

[thedude]

has all this talk (7 pages and counting) managed to ease the original poster's outrage? i doubt it. and while our american friends have all crawled out of the woodwork and have all weighed in with their prolific prose, indisputable logic, and patted each other on the back for having the courage to be outraged by the outrage....is the OP still visiting this thread? or will he go home to his friends and family and seek comfort with those other 3rd world disenfranchised outragers and work themselves up to a frothy state, believing themselves to be up against the world, guardians of simple but traditional values that the world chooses to ignore for the sake of their more progressive, all-encompassing, and ultimately democratic values...

it doesnt take a great leap of the imagination to think that the self-righteous and marginalised, havng arrived at this point of reasoning, could well think that their very own lives could be sacrificed to prove their point

some things should just be respected.

you shouldn't need to justify your principles against his/hers

just respect that they are angry, apologise humbly, and shut up

[sriracha john]

it doesnt take a great leap of the imagination to think that the self-righteous and marginalised, havng arrived at this point of reasoning, could well think that their very own lives could be sacrificed to prove their point

wishing that Bush and his "war on terrorism" folks could fathom this concept...

[PvtDick]

just respect that they are angry, apologise humbly, and shut up

Apologize for what? The actions of a silly film producer who has nothing to do with any of us here? That is up to him to do...and I understand he has done it.

[Ice Treasure]

A few months ago I saw an American audience go wild as John Kerry finished his speech and there was an HUGE woman with a little face in the middle of her fat, blubbery head/neck who was crying hysterically and gushing about how wonderful John Kerry was.

I wanted to step into the TV and punch her in the face

How ironic that in a discussion of the Venerable Lord Buddha, that you voice your emotions in such an openly hostile, aggressive, and combative manner.

How absolutely usual..

[thedude]

pvtdick, sorry i was speaking more generally and was not pointing at you specifically.

anyway i think you might have missed reading the earlier point i made about not needing justification.

your neighbour is hurt, you have the chance to jump in and make him feel better. instead of looking at the guy who hurt him and saying hey its not my fault and blaming your neighbour for his worldview that got him hurt in the first place. it doesn't solve anything.

this is the thing you see, the problems we face today are basically CIVILIAN or HUMAN problems, not military ones. that is why it is so hard to fight terrorism. it has to do with age old cultures feeling displaced, humiliated or ignored. whole communities are feeling this, and perhaps those who feel the most trapped and helpless are the ones organising themselves in desperate militaristic fashion, to provide a final solution. humanity needs to face its neighbours at an organic level and stem the anger there. our governments, with our support, should exercise emphathy, restraint and humility in helping out our neighbours. i know i'm sounding like a flower child here, but i seriously cannot think of any other way to make things better. the tried and tested way of conquering them, and opening burger stands just doesn't seem to have worked.

[kat]

the dude:

I sympathise with a lot of what you say. But I say SYMPATHISE, instead of wholly agree because after living and working in a developing country for some time now I see the world in much less black and white terms.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am by no means a conservative, and my parents are "third world" immigrants to America. I grew up low-income, and had to struggle for every gain I've ever made in my life. I'm still struggling. You don't need to tell many third world immigrants or people of color in America that America is not perfet. ######, read our history. Read our foreign policies. Any reasonable person will concede this point.

But while your at it, please read the histories of other European nations. Read the histories of these other oppressed nations. Yes, there is the history of colonialism (European and Asia), and there is the history of imperialism (America). There is also the homegrown history of tribalism, genocide, and dictatorship within the histories of oppressed countries.

Read comparative religous history, along with the holy books. I have found that there is not one major world religion that can claim to not uphold or has not upheld violence (physical or spiritual) over one oppressed group or another. Just read. Because once you seek out a variety of sources within history, the world starts to appear much more complex than whether you are a "conservative or progressive".

Again, if you are the same reasonable person (everyone in general, not you personally The Dude) that criticizes America, i'm not sure how you can miss every other past Western empire's historical contribution to the current mess. For the people who are implicitly superior (implicit by the constant harping on about how America is so much more ignorant than your pristine nation), you all have seemed to delete vast tracks of history. How incredibly convienent for your one-dimensional arguments.

Please read more, and talk less, or better yet, read a variety of different sources before you form these unshakable and ultimately inaccurate black and white gospels.

[Dickie]

homegrown history of tribalism, genocide, and dictatorship within the histories of oppressed countries.

The Brits and the Dutch committed a complete kill of an indigenous race. The Tasmanian aborigines were getting on our nerves so we formed a line across the island and walked it, killing any Abo we came across. There's a famous photo of the last one left alive, on his knees, with two blokes stood one either side. If I remember correctly, after the snap was taken they sent him to the afterlife.

Complete annihilation.

Proud? No.

Ashamed? No.

I'm saying this because you're right. Most cultures have a history of slaughter lurking in the background. It's one of those 'human' things.

[plachon]

the dude:

I sympathise with a lot of what you say. But I say SYMPATHISE, instead of wholly agree because after living and working in a developing country for some time now I see the world in much less black and white terms.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am by no means a conservative, and my parents are "third world" immigrants to America. I grew up low-income, and had to struggle for every gain I've ever made in my life. I'm still struggling. You don't need to tell many third world immigrants or people of color in America that America is not perfet. ######, read our history. Read our foreign policies. Any reasonable person will concede this point.

But while your at it, please read the histories of other European nations. Read the histories of these other oppressed nations. Yes, there is the history of colonialism (European and Asia), and there is the history of imperialism (America). There is also the homegrown history of tribalism, genocide, and dictatorship within the histories of oppressed countries.

Read comparative religous history, along with the holy books. I have found that there is not one major world religion that can claim to not uphold or has not upheld violence (physical or spiritual) over one oppressed group or another. Just read. Because once you seek out a variety of sources within history, the world starts to appear much more complex than whether you are a "conservative or progressive".

Again, if you are the same reasonable person (everyone in general, not you personally The Dude) that criticizes America, i'm not sure how you can miss every other past Western empire's historical contribution to the current mess. For the people who are implicitly superior (implicit by the constant harping on about how America is so much more ignorant than your pristine nation), you all have seemed to delete vast tracks of history. How incredibly convienent for your one-dimensional arguments.

Please read more, and talk less, or better yet, read a variety of different sources before you form these unshakable and ultimately inaccurate black and white gospels.

I agree with almost everything you say Kat, and it's very refreshing to see a reasonable voice speaking such sense. My one reservation is that, like Michael Moore, I believe the "constant harping on about America's ignorance" and current belligerence is actually a good thing and necessary, in the "War against Bushism" (i.e the little clique of people that have hijacked the most powerful nation on earth and are now intent on holding the rest of the world to ransom). Exagerration of the truth? I think not...........last night Kofi Annan stated that the US-led invasion of Iraq WAS ILLEGAL.

Now, I know the Boonmee and the other neo-cons on this site will try and wriggle out of this unpalatable truth, but again, if the vast majority of the US public weren't so goddammned ignorant, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now with a dangerous maniac in the White House. And I make no excuses for the poodle Blair, and his clique of neo-Labradors, but unlike the US, the British public in the main were never FOR the war. Both leaders should be with Milosevic answering their crimes in the Hague right now. If only......... Ignorance should not be an excuse!

[Limbo]

But then again, I also can't get over the stupidity or insensitivity of many European tourists that come to S.E. Asia and then sunbathe topless or practically naked on a beach. Seems to me Americans don't hold a monopoly on stupidity, we just get a much wider mass-media distribution on our transgressions. It's popular.

Many of us Americans also don't get the benefit of European social democracies, where we can travel around the world while our debts are postponed, or while we collect a nice unemployment benefit from home. This is a privilege that many Americans don't have, compared to Europeans who love to comment on how we don't travel. It is not as easy for the ordinary American to travel as it is for the ordinary Western European or Brit.

Mr. Kat, it is nice to hear the point of view of a representative of the silent minority in the States.

What you say about the smaller opportunity for travel (probably due to less holidays and a difficult financial situation) is important. The fact that most people from your country only speak one language contributes also.

It makes it very difficult for the average 'american' to understand that there are more ways than the 'american' way. That's why they can say and do things which are considered very rude and extremely stupid elsewhere.

Is ignorance really an excuse though? It sounds a little bit like children, trying to avoid punishment by playing the 'I didn't know'-card.

It was very funny to read the posting of this other american being proud of the freedom to think what you think in your country.

He forgot to add: As long as you don't say it loud.

It is also very funny (no, it is extremely sad) that the same kind of people get upset when others say what they think. They are denying so much freedom to others and they even don't have the slightest notion about it.

PS. About these sunbathing Europeans. Are you sure they weren't wearing invisible bra's of the same kind the traditional Thai pole-dancers are dancing?

[Limbo]

PS. About these sunbathing Europeans. Are you sure they weren't wearing invisible bra's of the same kind the traditional Thai pole-dancers are dancing?

Of course, you don't dance a bra, you wear it.

Is the prudity your own? And are you making the typical american mistake to think that your prudity has a worldwide validity?

Isn't it an American idea that nakedness is immediatly associated with sex?

If the Thai people permit tourists on certain beaches to sunbathe the way they are used to do elsewhere it is not upp to you to point a finger at them or the sunbathers. Typical American

Thanks for your posting. Well-written and substantial

[Lioneric]

They attack your country reserved fund 1997 ,sit on the Lord Buddha image and I wonder how long can you still tolence their act.??

[Dickie]

truth? I think not...........last night Kofi Annan stated that the US-led invasion of Iraq WAS ILLEGAL.

It's also exposed how, to a large degree, Saddam supressed the fanatics that were living in Iraq at the time.

vast majority of the US public weren't so goddammned ignorant, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now with a dangerous maniac in the White House. And I make no excuses for the poodle Blair, and his clique of neo-Labradors, but unlike the US, the British public in the main were never FOR the war. Both leaders should be with Milosevic answering their crimes in the Hague right now. If only......... Ignorance should not be an excuse!

The public in most countries are kept deliberately ignorant, which isn't the same as being stupid. Phoney and his mates were caught out in the end with their selective massaging of 'facts' but, by then, the war was on. It's probably unfinished business for the Bush family but, as always, it'll be the man on the street who suffers.

Still: it's done, there's no going back and it IS having a positive effect on the muslim world in waking them up to the real dangers posed by their nutters. If even the arabs are coming out of the woodwork and publicly stating that islam is in a bit of a mess then that must be a good sign.

[thedude]

kat, i have read over your post a few times and i think i can make out what your main points are. let me attempt to summarise.

1. that other civilisations (not just americans) are equally bad and ignorant.

2. all major religions have sponsored violence at some point.

3. apart from America, other nations in Europe and Asia have also pursued colonisation.

4. i really need to read more on history and comparative religion.

i'm sorry but i could not understand from your main points how it relates to or helps addresses the points i made (you WERE responding to me right?)

my points in summary were :

1. the responses so far will not address the OP's outrage.

2. imagine the OP's outrage is typical of that expressed by many in the 3rd world against countries like (but not restricted to) America.

3. people who are marginalised as such sometimes do resort to very drastic means, because they are defending their very culture and hence right to exist.

4. you cannot solve the problem by talking them down, justifying yourself, talking up your own glory, conquering them etc, because....read point 3 above.

5. i concluded that the problem is a human problem relating to the displacement of old cultures and values.

6. the implied solution was to start from a humane response (not military), involving equally age-old ideas like respect for your neighbour, empathy, restraint, humility.

i do not disagree with your points, i just don't understand how they relate to mine, particularly since i was not talking about religion or history, in fact i was suggesting possible ways towards a future. i'd like to assure you that nowhere did i say (nor do i think) that americans are bad people. if i were american, i would be defensive too if everyone seems to pointing at me for the problems in the world.

[kat]

I should of been more clear about the way I was addressing you. On the one hand, I was addressing you directly in terms of your overall perspective, but I was speaking in general about my overall complaints of people who seem to only see the side of least reflection or challenge when it comes to themselves. I think somedays I am more fed up with this than usual, and I think this past week has been one of those "days".

I think my response to you is a bit convoluted, because in some ways I am arguing with myself through your stated perspective. It is almost identical to my own before working in developing countries intensively about 3 years ago. Before this I worked in underdeveloped communities in the states.

I'm not in a good position to give you another answer today Dude, because I am too scattered. But I think like my earlier post, it would be somewhere between agreeing with you and challenging you because that it the process I am undergoing internally.

So, no, I am definitely not addressing the complaints to you personally. I think I stated that further into my post. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[kat]

Oh yeah, and thanks for the other comments. I enjoyed them and mostly agreed, although I would stubbornly adhere to the fact the majority of the American public did not vote for W. (Bush). It is a famous controversial question of whether or not the VOTING majority voted for him, but this does not constitute the majority of Americans. Please try to remember this detail when you talk about the majority in American politics.

[Spee]

although I would stubbornly adhere to the fact the majority of the American public did not vote for W. (Bush).

Why do so many people forget the fact that the American president is NOT ELECTED BY THE POPULAR VOTE!! The president is elected by the electoral college method, which is only somewhat related to majority vote on a state-by-state basis (not a country-wide basis).

And if you want to continue to whine about Algore not winning, just remember that he couldn't even carry his home state! If he had carried it, the Florida vote count would have been an afterthought by all parties involved.

Jeeezzuus-h-youknowwho. Get over it!

[kat]

I'm not whining Spee, I'm merely stating a historical fact. The 2000 election was an unprecedented and highly contested mess (along with everything else following the "election").

And how does the electoral college elect presidents Spee? By conceding the majority of votes of one party in a state to that party. Yes Al Gore lost his home state, but FLORIDA decided the election under severely questionable circumstances.

No amount of foot-stomping double-speak or conservative media is ever going to change that fact or the circumstances surrounding it. So don't tell me to get over it because it shouldn't of happened.