Alphabet Question

[kolohe]

I just started to learn the alphabet. I am currently working on learning the whole thing (ก ไก, ข ไข, etc) including the spelling. I know learning the full sounds (as opposed to: ก, ข, etc) is important for relaying spelling to/from another person. My question is at this point in my learning (beginning) how important is it to learn to spell the alphabet sounds out? Example: How important is it to know how to also spell out ฐฐาน versus only knowing how to read/write ฐ, knowing and saying the sounds associated with it?

Thanks..

K

[gburns57au]

I just started to learn the alphabet. I am currently working on learning the whole thing (ก ไก, ข ไข, etc) including the spelling. I know learning the full sounds (as opposed to: ก, ข, etc) is important for relaying spelling to/from another person. My question is at this point in my learning (beginning) how important is it to learn to spell the alphabet sounds out? Example: How important is it to know how to also spell out ฐฐาน versus only knowing how to read/write ฐ, knowing and saying the sounds associated with it?

Thanks..

K

It will be of invaluable assistance in getting the pronounciation right.

[kolohe]

I just started to learn the alphabet. I am currently working on learning the whole thing (ก ไก, ข ไข, etc) including the spelling. I know learning the full sounds (as opposed to: ก, ข, etc) is important for relaying spelling to/from another person. My question is at this point in my learning (beginning) how important is it to learn to spell the alphabet sounds out? Example: How important is it to know how to also spell out ฐฐาน versus only knowing how to read/write ฐ, knowing and saying the sounds associated with it?

Thanks..

K

It will be of invaluable assistance in getting the pronounciation right.

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear enough in that post.

I understand the importance of learning the associated word. I am learning the word. My question is how important is it to know how to write out that associated word?

Follow-up question: How important is it to learn the alphabet order?

Thanks,

K

[kokesaat]

I just started to learn the alphabet. I am currently working on learning the whole thing (ก ไก, ข ไข, etc) including the spelling. I know learning the full sounds (as opposed to: ก, ข, etc) is important for relaying spelling to/from another person. My question is at this point in my learning (beginning) how important is it to learn to spell the alphabet sounds out? Example: How important is it to know how to also spell out ฐฐาน versus only knowing how to read/write ฐ, knowing and saying the sounds associated with it?

Thanks..

K

It will be of invaluable assistance in getting the pronounciation right.

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear enough in that post.

I understand the importance of learning the associated word. I am learning the word. My question is how important is it to know how to write out that associated word?

Follow-up question: How important is it to learn the alphabet order?

Thanks,

K

Using a dictionary will be a breeze once you get the consonant order down pat.

[DavidHouston]

Isn't it interesting how on-line and CD dictionaries have lessened the need to know the alphabet. Now a knowledge of the Thai keyboard is starting to become prominent. Alternatively, buy a dictionary with alphabetic thumb-tabs or the alphabet list along the side.

[withnail]

I would say initially it's not important to remember the spelling of all of those words. Why try and run before you can walk, right? I started off with the Manee and Friends reader at www.learningthai.com You'll see there how they focus on the sounds rather than the names.

[kolohe]

Good point. I don't know why I couldn't think of that on my own.

I asked that because I got jammed up by a book I purchased in Bangkok. It is one of those workbooks that has one letter per page and you write the letters repeatedly. Well, after I got halfway through the book, I realized it was published with missing pages!

[kokesaat]

I would say initially it's not important to remember the spelling of all of those words. Why try and run before you can walk, right? I started off with the Manee and Friends reader at www.learningthai.com You'll see there how they focus on the sounds rather than the names.

I got bummed out trying to learn 44 consonants and all the vowels without understanding another thing about the Thai language (grammar, tones, etc). I finally began to break the code with Manee and Friends.....like withnail, I found it easier to focus on the sounds rather than the names. I didn't buckle down and learn the alphabet order until I was finished with Manee and some of Mary Haas's reading materials (all free and with MP3's to boot at http://www.seasite.niu.edu:85/thai/language/reading.htm)

[meadish_sweetball]

Seasite is a great completely free Thai learning resource compiled by Northern Illinois University well worth exploring.

I used it a lot during my studies as well.

[Zombienation]

Thanks for that link, great site!

[Richard W]

Using a dictionary will be a breeze once you get the consonant order down pat.

Once you remember to swap preposed vowel symbols and the immediately following consonant. (Note that Thai collation order is purely mechanical - learning the order of the vowel sounds, with closed and open forms where relevant, is a waste of time and potentially misleading - the positions of เพลา [M]phlao and [M]phee[M]laa are the same.)

Isn't it interesting how on-line and CD dictionaries have lessened the need to know the alphabet. Now a knowledge of the Thai keyboard is starting to become prominent. Alternatively, buy a dictionary with alphabetic thumb-tabs or the alphabet list along the side.

Computerised dictionaries mostly make it even more difficult to look up a word if you aren't sure how it's spelt.

[AjarnP]

Isn't it interesting how on-line and CD dictionaries have lessened the need to know the alphabet. Now a knowledge of the Thai keyboard is starting to become prominent. Alternatively, buy a dictionary with alphabetic thumb-tabs or the alphabet list along the side.

I couldn't agree more David. After many years of trying I still get lost with the 'alphabetical' order used in modern dictionaries and the actual (numeric) position of the consonant in the 'alphabet'.

Thank you Sathienpong for placing an index inside the front cover!!!

AjarnP

[DavidHouston]

Isn't it interesting how on-line and CD dictionaries have lessened the need to know the alphabet. Now a knowledge of the Thai keyboard is starting to become prominent. Alternatively, buy a dictionary with alphabetic thumb-tabs or the alphabet list along the side.

I couldn't agree more David. After many years of trying I still get lost with the 'alphabetical' order used in modern dictionaries and the actual (numeric) position of the consonant in the 'alphabet'.

Thank you Sathienpong for placing an index inside the front cover!!!

AjarnP

The thumb index and the attached CD make the Domnern Sathienpong dictionary my favorite among all its competitors. And the bundle only costs 570 baht. I notice that the paperback, pocket version has also been updated to the 3rd edition.

[ElZorro]

When I bought my first Thai-English dictionary by วิทย์ เที่ยงบูรณธรรม, I had to overcome my clumsiness with the Thai alphabet order and the dictionary's lack of a thumb index, so I wrote myself the letters on the edge. That made finding words quite easy, and practice using the dictionary made me more familiar with the alphabet order.

[tgeezer]

When I bought my first Thai-English dictionary by วิทย์ เที่ยงบูรณธรรม, I had to overcome my clumsiness with the Thai alphabet order and the dictionary's lack of a thumb index, so I wrote myself the letters on the edge. That made finding words quite easy, and practice using the dictionary made me more familiar with the alphabet order.

My favorite alphabet aid-memoir I found in a basic book; written in six lines, of 7,6,6,6,8, and 11 characters. I already knew the individual consonents when I found this but always missed some, since writing it out for a few mornings, I can now say the alphabet from memory with complete confidence. There is a pattern of high, mid, and odd-ball low consonants which I think would work if you were just starting out. Looking up words in a dictionary when you have never seen them written is a breeze.

[ElZorro]

My favorite alphabet aid-memoir I found in a basic book; written in six lines, of 7,6,6,6,8, and 11 characters. I already knew the individual consonents when I found this but always missed some, since writing it out for a few mornings, I can now say the alphabet from memory with complete confidence. There is a pattern of high, mid, and odd-ball low consonants which I think would work if you were just starting out. Looking up words in a dictionary when you have never seen them written is a breeze.

Like this?

ก ข ฃ ค ฅ ฆ ง

จ ฉ ช ซ ฌ ญ

ฎ ฏ ฐ ฑ ฒ ณ

ด ต ถ ท ธ น

บ ป ผ ฝ พ ฟ ภ ม

ย ร ฤ ฤๅ ล ฦ ฦๅ ว ศ ษ ส ห ฬ อ ฮ

(orange=mid brown=high green=low)

Edited February 7, 2008 by ElZorro

[tgeezer]

My favorite alphabet aid-memoir I found in a basic book; written in six lines, of 7,6,6,6,8, and 11 characters. I already knew the individual consonents when I found this but always missed some, since writing it out for a few mornings, I can now say the alphabet from memory with complete confidence. There is a pattern of high, mid, and odd-ball low consonants which I think would work if you were just starting out. Looking up words in a dictionary when you have never seen them written is a breeze.

Like this?

ก ข ฃ ค ฅ ฆ ง

จ ฉ ช ซ ฌ ญ

ฎ ฏ ฐ ฑ ฒ ณ

ด ต ถ ท ธ น

บ ป ผ ฝ พ ฟ ภ ม

ย ร ฤ ฤๅ ล ฦ ฦๅ ว ศ ษ ส ห ฬ อ ฮ

(orange=mid brown=high green=low)

Almost, but almost everyone agrees that there are only 44 consonents, so don't put in the vowels, ligatures or what ever you want to call them.

Edited February 8, 2008 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

My favorite alphabet aid-memoir I found in a basic book; written in six lines, of 7,6,6,6,8, and 11 characters. I already knew the individual consonents when I found this but always missed some, since writing it out for a few mornings, I can now say the alphabet from memory with complete confidence. There is a pattern of high, mid, and odd-ball low consonants which I think would work if you were just starting out. Looking up words in a dictionary when you have never seen them written is a breeze.

Like this?

ก ข ฃ ค ฅ ฆ ง

จ ฉ ช ซ ฌ ญ

ฎ ฏ ฐ ฑ ฒ ณ

ด ต ถ ท ธ น

บ ป ผ ฝ พ ฟ ภ ม

ย ร ฤ ฤๅ ล ฦ ฦๅ ว ศ ษ ส ห ฬ อ ฮ

(orange=mid brown=high green=low)

Thinking a little more and for the original poster Kolohe, if you are already getting around town with what you already know then learning the consonents and vowels is far the best way to learn; you miss the step of writing roman letters to represent Thai sounds which all but the dedicated don't do properly anyway; you only have to look at the weird things written on this forum to see that it is a step best missed. The little alphabet books with the story are wonderful, they get you started on a useful vocabulary. for example: chicken goes out looking for food, scratches the ground, eats worms and insects etc. all useful phases. Every letter has got something useful. The alphabet written above but with 44 consonents is so good too; the first line has letters produced in the throat, the next three lines produced in the mouth, the fifth produced by the lips, the last line by the mouth, closing sylables are divided this way too, first line throat g, ng, next three lines mouth, d,n, fifth line, lips b,m, and the last line, mouth, some d endings and some n endings. that is six out of a possible eight endings the other two are in the last line, I will have to go to Thai for this, ย,ว. So if you are in doubt as to what an ending is then say the letter ร for instance not a lip-job nor a throat-job(sorry) it is from the mouth must be d or n, and it is 'n' of course. The alphabet is not as higledy piggledy as some think there is a logic to it which I may not have put logically I will allow, but if you look you will see it for yourself.