Is Tourist Season Up Or Down

[ttthailand]

I hear the tourist season this year is busy from some and slow from others. What do you think ? I am not there right now but may be coming in near future.

[torrenova]

Loads of non spending Ivans around without two pennies to rub together inflate the numbers but good spenders are down certainly.

[ttthailand]

If the season is way down are all the bars and resturants that recently opened going to make it through the summer ?

I would think the gogos and still busy , yes ?

[tropo]

If the season is way down are all the bars and resturants that recently opened going to make it through the summer ?

I would think the gogos and still busy , yes ?

Did 4 of the largest gogos in Walking Street last night (Monday). Average crowds but didn't see many guys spending much on the girls.

I know of one beauty saloon on Soi 7 that has reported on business being way down on the same time last year. It would seem there is some truth to the "Ivan" theory. Hotel bookings quite ok, people in bars down.

[britmaveric]

Ivans dont frequent bars or gogo(s), so not surprised. Things are down, its obvious to anyone with eye sight.

[NanLaew]

I would go with Tropo's yardstick of hotel bookings or occupancy rates versus <deleted> on bar stools. Are they published anywhere? There's more to Pattaya than gogo bars and eastern Europeans these days. There are Asian visitors who tend to do their thing during daylight, ie. island trips, Nong Nuch, etc.. The malls seem busy, big tour buses taking groups to the cabaret shows and the like in the evenings. From some recent snapshots I have seen of Walking Street, there seems to be a fair bit of pedestrian traffic, maybe just looking as they pass through to Bali Hai to get their bus back to the hotel? Just because the gogo's and beer bars are half-empty, does not mean the the town is. The 'local content' from just out the back of town fill up the beaches at the weekends. The karaoke bars, Thai buffet restaurants and hostess clubs on Sai Sahm are chockers. Maybe the revenue streams are changing.

[ttthailand]

NanLaew, perhaps you are correct about the revenue streams changing. Maybe the old days of the white foreigner ruling the streets and the bars are over. A few friends who have businesses in Pattaya are getting by with the local group but no real tourists. Many of the locals however also own businesses and if they don't do well then it's another business for sale and one less customer. I guess it is not the time to buy or open a bar in Pattaya.

[monty]

Tropo is correct!

Revenue streams are changing, with a much higher percentage coming from Asian tourists.

Farang oriented places are struggling, even the quality non-naughty places such as live music pubs.

One area doing well, and probably will keep on doing well is where the target market are expats, both retired people or working expats (I mean in the industry, NOT running a girlie bar!).

The industry is growing rapidly, with a pretty high influx of foreign, Western workers.

[Mobi]

I went to the Royal Cliff the other day for the first time in years. The guy I was with told me that over 90% of the hotel occupancy is Russian. I don't know how accurate this statement is, but judging by the English/Russian signs everywhere, and the language spoken by the tourists milling around the lobby, there sure are a lot of Russians staying there.

OK, no doubt the Royal Cliff has special rates for Russian tour parties, but this isn't a cheap hotel, by any standards and the restaurants were full of Russians.

Actually what I saw was an eye opener, and I certainly wouldn't say that all Russian tourists don't have two pennies to rub together.

[Tolley]

Was out on Saturday night and did a few gogos....very quiet hardly any customers in Silver Star and Carousel a few more in Living Dolls 1 and this was after 12.

On the plus side if you were looking for talent there was some real hotties available.

A lot of the hotels are booked out but it seems the budget tourist from eastern europe and asian tourists from China, Japan etc are the majority of tourists and they are not going much to the bars.

[wilko]

Eastern Europe are the new big spenders (Russia has Oil).....this is a hugely expanding market.

It seems to me that the ones who have had a good season are catering for the new and changing markets, the ones who aren't are Western/Euro-centrics relying on the dwindling number of evermore impoverished low-class westerners to bolster up their unimaginative businesses. They think it's all over, but all around them businesses are changing and making good money from the new markets

[torrenova]

A lot of the russian market is the same as the korean, taiwanese, chinese etc. They pay relatively big bucks back home but everything including entertainment and at least a couple of meals a day are included. They do not have or do not bring or will not spend any other cash, or not very much. Exceptions abound I agree but the rank and file, bread and butter Ivan is pennyless.

[Chang_paarp]

The smart money would be opening a Russian lanuage school for local lasses and drivers.

[think_too_mut]

The smart money would be opening a Russian lanuage school for local lasses and drivers.

Those who want girls, have better and cheaper at home in the former Soviet Empire.

Many posts like "Pataya hotel, up to 600B per day" on this board do not suggest too many westerners are well heeled either.

Russians pay same price as I pay for the same hotel, no discount.

Those who can afford to travel are on 1200-1500$ a month back home (Khazakhstan, Novosibirsk, and other oil/gas rich places) and have more than two pennies to rub.

Edited February 6, 2008 by think_too_mut

[moo9]

Income streams seem to change really. But who cares?

I just stay quite far away from the new clients of Pattaya in the hope that the city will not change too much though.

Recently I went to Outlet Mall and that was really full with Russians, standing in your way, running over you......well well....

[DonTron]

Ohh Uhhh terrible high season *whine whine* not enough tourists *whine whine* and my hand hurts from counting piles and piles of 1000 bath bills *whine whine* :D :D

[Bel Mondo]

Now that Pattaya has become the new “Miami Beach” and “Beverly Hills” of Asia, why would any “legitimate” business person be concerned with such simplistic concepts like “high season”?

With literally thousands of new multi-million Baht condos and houses for sale, we all know that Pattaya’s business infrastructure is thriving!

Surely all those property purchasers are overflowing with money to service all the restaurants, discos, Go-Go Bars and beer bars –not to mention Door-to-Door and pizza delivery outlets.

Some people who have lived here for a while get the wrong idea. From what they see walking around Pattaya and riding the noisy Harleys, they probably think Pattaya has “no class”. They tend to view Pattaya as a place for “losers” who came here to finally become “winners”. But they are wrong!

Pattaya is “Happening!” –

Property developers are happy. Cash (a lot!) is coming in – Dutch, Russian, Taiwanese, Korean, and Yakuza –

The local news channels and newspapers are happy – “Mediocrity”---but where else can you advertise?

And local internet sites are making money because everyone has an opinion. This translates into revenue for the internet site, so money is made.

High Season? Low Season? --- How can this be a viable concept in Pattaya – the New Miami Beach?

[xminator]

Now that Pattaya has become the new "Miami Beach" and "Beverly Hills" of Asia, why would any "legitimate" business person be concerned with such simplistic concepts like "high season"?

With literally thousands of new multi-million Baht condos and houses for sale, we all know that Pattaya's business infrastructure is thriving!

Surely all those property purchasers are overflowing with money to service all the restaurants, discos, Go-Go Bars and beer bars –not to mention Door-to-Door and pizza delivery outlets.

Some people who have lived here for a while get the wrong idea. From what they see walking around Pattaya and riding the noisy Harleys, they probably think Pattaya has "no class". They tend to view Pattaya as a place for "losers" who came here to finally become "winners". But they are wrong!

Pattaya is "Happening!" –

Property developers are happy. Cash (a lot!) is coming in – Dutch, Russian, Taiwanese, Korean, and Yakuza –

The local news channels and newspapers are happy – "Mediocrity"---but where else can you advertise?

And local internet sites are making money because everyone has an opinion. This translates into revenue for the internet site, so money is made.

High Season? Low Season? --- How can this be a viable concept in Pattaya – the New Miami Beach?

The typical Russian on vacation spend as much as other nationalities. There is a general diffrence from the typical western in Pattaya tough. They bring their wifes and kids. They use Pattaya as western tourists use Phuket. Most of the russian speakers that I see on the taxis also carry more then a few shopping bags when going back from Pattaya.

Read a tourist report from my home country a couple of years ago, and Ivan generally save up some money, and think its rude to be "cheap" when on holiday. Your "bread and butter" ivan wont go to Thailand. He will more likely go to one of the lake resorts in Russia.

[wilko]

Income streams seem to change really. But who cares?

I just stay quite far away from the new clients of Pattaya in the hope that the city will not change too much though.

Recently I went to Outlet Mall and that was really full with Russians, standing in your way, running over you......well well....

Why would they go there? According to the posters above they are "penniless" (and called "Ivan")!

[Phil Conners]

Plenty of Russians in Mike shopping mall as well. Dunno if they're just window shopping or spending cash but they're looking at the expensive stuff...

[funfun]

If the season is way down are all the bars and resturants that recently opened going to make it through the summer ?

I would think the gogos and still busy , yes ?

Did 4 of the largest gogos in Walking Street last night (Monday). Average crowds but didn't see many guys spending much on the girls.

I know of one beauty saloon on Soi 7 that has reported on business being way down on the same time last year. It would seem there is some truth to the "Ivan" theory. Hotel bookings quite ok, people in bars down.

"people in bars down."

totally agree for sure, & im only a newbie, but this year there seems to be a lot more people walking around dinking bottles of beer ill presume they have bought at a 7/11.

soi 6 seems to have a group of people that want to sit in a bar and not buy a drink for them or a girl and bring there own beer and food in then use your toilet and stuff it full of tissue!!!

it will be fun to watch the smoking ban & see what happens!

is an "open air bar" ok or not?

chris

[cali4995]

While the quality of the infrastructure certainly has come along, the same can't be said for the

local population, the place has become "katuhy city", can anyone honestly disagree with me here?

The area has attracted a disproportionate number of criminal minded yaba junkies who all live on

the periphery of town and race around on their motorbikes either assaulting each other or attempting

thefts from whoever is near. People claim that Pattaya is trying to market itself as some kind of

upscale beach resort but i'm afraid they need to start cleaning up the trash first.

Safe? it's not safe. I'm an extremely conservative 42 year old male. I don't even drink alcohol and I can't

even remember the number of fights I was almost in and I certainly remember the two I was in.

Taxi ranks who insult you if you choose not to use their service. Trash talking she-males who will insult

anyone because that seems to amuse them. Some of the locals who have been there too long are

absolutely hateful. It is after all a tourist place, it was not intended as a destination for people to stay

forever Thais or foreigners. Sure there are nice Thais there, the one who just arrived usually. The large

numbers of ivans I would guess are on 30 day stay. It's not a place where even semi-nice people can go

unless you're hiding out in your condo all day long. I don't predict a rosy tourism future here.

[jonniebkk]

Taxi ranks who insult you if you choose not to use their service. Trash talking she-males who will insult

anyone because that seems to amuse them. Some of the locals who have been there too long are

absolutely hateful... It's not a place where even semi-nice people can go unless you're hiding out in your condo all day long. I don't predict a rosy tourism future here.

I am a long term resident and as jaded about Pattaya as anyone...but I just don't get the feeling that you expressed above. I have never been insulted by any songtow or moto taxi drivers nor been assaulted physically or verbally by either she-males or she-females for not using their services either.

I just go about my business...smile and chit-chat with the locals sometimes...and am always treated with courtesy in return. I just don't see any of this "attitude" you refer too...maybe some people give off a bad vibe so they get it returned by the locals??

[onzestan]

I'd say close down 500 bars and then just maybe the remaining would not have to complain.

I see new bar centers being build year after year there's just not enough customers.

cheers

onzestan

[tropo]

numbers of ivans I would guess are on 30 day stay. It's not a place where even semi-nice people can go

unless you're hiding out in your condo all day long. I don't predict a rosy tourism future here.

I actually like the way Pattaya is going and I like the way the hordes of Ivans and other non-sex-tourists are diluting the seedy element of Pattaya.

These new crowds are normalizing the feel of Pattaya and slowly turning it into a mult-faceted tourist resort.

Edited February 7, 2008 by tropo

[Tammi]

Thai friends who have businesses say that plenty of tourists but they are not spending

[moo9]

Income streams seem to change really. But who cares?

I just stay quite far away from the new clients of Pattaya in the hope that the city will not change too much though.

Recently I went to Outlet Mall and that was really full with Russians, standing in your way, running over you......well well....

Why would they go there? According to the posters above they are "penniless" (and called "Ivan")!

I really do not know whether they spend, but they are in my way everywhere

[funfun]

I'd say close down 500 bars and then just maybe the remaining would not have to complain.

I see new bar centers being build year after year there's just not enough customers.

cheers

onzestan

"I'd say close down 500 bars"

what a great idea!

right, how could we close 500 bars captain????

hang on well invent a new licence, that nobody knows about, then, well close them down for not having it!!

Brilliant, but would it work??

well if we wright it, in thai, no one will know!!!

great idea luetennat!!

what if we can only close maybe 100 bars???

well sergent, we'll invent one so complecated we cant understand it!!!! then well close them for that!!!

excelent my best boss, perfect!!!

now what happens then when we only close 200 bars???????

let me think!!!

got it, got it, we"ll ban smoking in bars and then shut them for that one!!!!!

you are the best chief ever, but what if everyone goes outside bars to smoke??????

oh thats easy, again we'll write everthing in thai, give out 2 or 3 different ban start dates, and not tell anyone where they can smoke or not!!!!!!

!

[NanLaew]

Thai friends who have businesses say that plenty of tourists but they are not spending

All that means is they are not buying whatever your Thai friends are selling.

These people are spending, make no mistake.

Old business models v. New revenue streams

No contest.

[Humphrey Bear]

Thai friends who have businesses say that plenty of tourists but they are not spending

All that means is they are not buying whatever your Thai friends are selling.

These people are spending, make no mistake.

Old business models v. New revenue streams

No contest.

But whether they 'new' tourists are Russian or Asian, the majority are on package tours. The vast majority.

As has been previously stated, that means that the bulk of the money spent on the holiday does not reach the local retailers, but is in the pockets of the tour providers, the airlines and the hotel owners. The only filter-down there is payment of wages to hotel staff.

Package tours built up much of the East coast of Spain, but then as people in NW Europe started once again to take individual holidays, there was no replacement money-stream. Hence there are many derelict and semi-derelict areas in Spain where people cannot get their investment out.

Local businesses gained much from the sex-tourist, who had his tilac-of-the-day on his arm, buying clothes and jewellry, food and mobile phones. The package tourist, without a tilac, buys what his wife tells him, but reluctantly. And she is looking for bargains, whereas the Thai b/g was looking for resale value or something to show-off to her girl-friends.

Local tradesmen do not do well out of package tours. Big business does very well.