Mark Wolfe Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 More and more it seems I see adults with their very young children here in Lamai. I suppose I can understand having your five-year-old or older along for the amusement of the adults (a five-year-old won't remember anything about the trip, except possibly a vague general memory at best -- a younger child will remember nothing), but bringing a baby seems insane. An infant or even a kid of two or three is a chore at the best of times, so why would you bring one along on a vacation clear across the globe? Have these people never hear of babysitters? Don't give me this, "They want to experience the holiday as a family" crap; it's easy to have a "holiday" for a day or so near your own home. Traveling on an airplane for hours with transfers and ultimately staying in a hotel or bungalow for days far from normal amenities with the constant attention a baby needs seems to defeat the purpose of a "vacation." A "holiday" is defined as a time when one does not work. Taking care of a small child or infant is work, no question. So why bring the baby along? PS -- This has nothing to do with "liking children or not"; it's a matter of R&R (Rest and relaxation/ rehabilitation/ recreation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Nobody they trust to take care of the kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 This has crossed my mind, but then I wonder what must be going through their minds. "Let's take a vacation in Thailand with the baby, even though it will probably be stressful and not really what we envisioned looking at the Website brochures." Maybe I am old school, but I always thought that having a baby meant no real vacations for a few years, or certainly nothing remarkable like international travel. (By the way, I feel strongly that the airlines should charge 10 times the adult fare for children under, say, two years old. If you don't agree, you've never been seated on a long-haul flight near a wailing infant.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrt273nva Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 maybe they love their children. it's just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetchariot Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 A few people in the UK have got into trouble for leaving their kids behind when they went on holiday. I think even if you leave an infant with an adequate supply of food and water for the duration of your holiday, the autorities tend to take a dim view of it. I wouldn't think many babysitters would want to take on full-time responsibility of someone elses kid for any significant length of time either. I have personally never travelled with small children, and hope I never do, but I guess for many of these people it's a case of bringing the kids or missing out on their annual 2 weeks in the sun (not that we've had too much of that around here lately). I suspect most of the people you see with small kids are doing it for the first time, and will probably wait a few years before their next holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 More and more it seems I see adults with their very young children here in Lamai. I suppose I can understand having your five-year-old or older along for the amusement of the adults (a five-year-old won't remember anything about the trip, except possibly a vague general memory at best -- a younger child will remember nothing), but bringing a baby seems insane. An infant or even a kid of two or three is a chore at the best of times, so why would you bring one along on a vacation clear across the globe? Have these people never hear of babysitters? Don't give me this, "They want to experience the holiday as a family" crap; it's easy to have a "holiday" for a day or so near your own home. Traveling on an airplane for hours with transfers and ultimately staying in a hotel or bungalow for days far from normal amenities with the constant attention a baby needs seems to defeat the purpose of a "vacation." A "holiday" is defined as a time when one does not work. Taking care of a small child or infant is work, no question. So why bring the baby along? PS -- This has nothing to do with "liking children or not"; it's a matter of R&R (Rest and relaxation/ rehabilitation/ recreation). sounds like you have no idea ! most parents can relax even with their children with them. life does not stop once you have children parents would never leave their kids overseas for a 2 weeks holiday ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Recently, one of my old friends visited me, left her kids with her husband (their father) and took her first holiday in 7 years. There's a thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 parents would never leave their kids overseas for a 2 weeks holiday ! How then do you explain Thai mothers leaving their kids with family members while they go elsewhere in the country to work (such as in drinking establishments)? The Thai mothers might just as well be overseas since they do not go home often, perhaps only once every several months. Life certainly doesn't stop after having kids, but anyone who has been there knows the value of "away time" from the duties to enjoy life without the constant attention a toddler needs. Perhaps I should have included, along with babysitters, family members. The idea that a mother and father cannot find someone trusted to take care of the baby for a week or two means that they either aren't trying, or they have no friends and have been ostracized from their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSingh Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 parents would never leave their kids overseas for a 2 weeks holiday ! How then do you explain Thai mothers leaving their kids with family members while they go elsewhere in the country to work (such as in drinking establishments)? The Thai mothers might just as well be overseas since they do not go home often, perhaps only once every several months. I had a feeling that there may have been another issue to the thread than the initial post & i think i may have been right based on the above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Mark, what a tiny bubble you live in.Most Thai women who go off to work do so for MONEY. Sure, there are some who don't necessarily care if they take care of their kids or if their parents do, but most do and they do it because they can make more money than their parents can. Sure, they probably shouldn't have had a kid they couldn't afford, but if everyone in the world waited until they could have kids then I guess we wouldn't have such an overpopulation problem. Regardless, those women are not on holiday and these families are. Two totally different kettle of fish. So, back to the families on holiday issue you seem to have, perhaps some people aren't so much ostracised from their families as don't have any family members who can take their kid for 2 weeks. Not to be insulting here but it seems you lack empathy Mark, and see the world only in terms of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangMaiSausage Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 (edited) Hey Mark I will be bringing my little lad (6 months old) to lamai next month maybe you could baby sit? Life does not stop when you have children you can still enjoy yourself with an infant in tow. What if the marriage is mixed nationality (English/Thai) should the parents of the Thai side not see their grandchildren? I would not leave my child at home whilst I went on vacation (longer than a couple of days) Edited February 18, 2008 by ChangMaiSausage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 why would holidaying with a baby be stressful? I did it with a small baby last year & am doing it again in a couple of weeks, we had a great time, no stress, quite relaxing & we all got away fro the Uk cold for a while. If you have no children & have never gone on holiday with one then how could you possibly be in a position to comment. Sounds more like personal predjudice to me & as for comparing it to thai women who leave their kids with extended family, they are usually forced to do so out of economic neccesity, I on the other hand, can afford to live with my child year round & am grateful ffor that as I enjoy his presence & that includes family holidays I suggets in future you just try to not take any notice of those families who are more than likely minding their own business & having a fun time on holiday with their children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirvana Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 The post was obviously made to provoke and that aim has been achieved clearly. Without further comment necessary on the content... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangMaiSausage Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Quote - (By the way, I feel strongly that the airlines should charge 10 times the adult fare for children under, say, two years old. If you don't agree, you've never been seated on a long-haul flight near a wailing infant.) Buy yourself a set of Bose sound deafening headphones!! There was a programme in the UK televised called Grumpy Old Men did you feature in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.s Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 More and more it seems I see adults with their very young children here in Lamai. I suppose I can understand having your five-year-old or older along for the amusement of the adults (a five-year-old won't remember anything about the trip, except possibly a vague general memory at best -- a younger child will remember nothing), but bringing a baby seems insane. An infant or even a kid of two or three is a chore at the best of times, so why would you bring one along on a vacation clear across the globe? Have these people never hear of babysitters? Don't give me this, "They want to experience the holiday as a family" crap; it's easy to have a "holiday" for a day or so near your own home. Traveling on an airplane for hours with transfers and ultimately staying in a hotel or bungalow for days far from normal amenities with the constant attention a baby needs seems to defeat the purpose of a "vacation." A "holiday" is defined as a time when one does not work. Taking care of a small child or infant is work, no question. So why bring the baby along? PS -- This has nothing to do with "liking children or not"; it's a matter of R&R (Rest and relaxation/ rehabilitation/ recreation). a child is not something you turn your back on when you want a break. my 3 weeks in my house on kpg with my 9 month old daughter was the best holiday i have ever had. christmas when she was over a year was better and look forward to doing it again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggybear Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 More and more it seems I see adults with their very young children here in Lamai. I suppose I can understand having your five-year-old or older along for the amusement of the adults (a five-year-old won't remember anything about the trip, except possibly a vague general memory at best -- a younger child will remember nothing), but bringing a baby seems insane. An infant or even a kid of two or three is a chore at the best of times, so why would you bring one along on a vacation clear across the globe? Have these people never hear of babysitters? Don't give me this, "They want to experience the holiday as a family" crap; it's easy to have a "holiday" for a day or so near your own home. Traveling on an airplane for hours with transfers and ultimately staying in a hotel or bungalow for days far from normal amenities with the constant attention a baby needs seems to defeat the purpose of a "vacation." A "holiday" is defined as a time when one does not work. Taking care of a small child or infant is work, no question. So why bring the baby along? PS -- This has nothing to do with "liking children or not"; it's a matter of R&R (Rest and relaxation/ rehabilitation/ recreation). I see lots of Scandanavian families in Phuket with kids AND grandparents along on the holiday. I think it's great ! In America, fractured families are the norm; that an entire family would holiday together, is refreshing. That the poster cannot understand this, reflects more on the poster than the people he is complaining about. Does the term "selfish" mean anything to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koheesti Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 (edited) More and more it seems I see adults with their very young children here in Lamai. I suppose I can understand having your five-year-old or older along for the amusement of the adults (a five-year-old won't remember anything about the trip, except possibly a vague general memory at best -- a younger child will remember nothing), but bringing a baby seems insane. An infant or even a kid of two or three is a chore at the best of times, so why would you bring one along on a vacation clear across the globe? Have these people never hear of babysitters? Don't give me this, "They want to experience the holiday as a family" crap; it's easy to have a "holiday" for a day or so near your own home. Traveling on an airplane for hours with transfers and ultimately staying in a hotel or bungalow for days far from normal amenities with the constant attention a baby needs seems to defeat the purpose of a "vacation." A "holiday" is defined as a time when one does not work. Taking care of a small child or infant is work, no question. So why bring the baby along? PS -- This has nothing to do with "liking children or not"; it's a matter of R&R (Rest and relaxation/ rehabilitation/ recreation). Looks like I'm the only one on your side. Just the other day I saw a mom pushing her stroller along the road. I thought she must be nuts because walking along the road outside my house isn't the safest (or cleanest) place for an adult to walk with the traffic and all. She wants to risk pushing her baby? If they want to take their kids it's up to them. If I had any, I would prefer to leave them with the grandparents or wait to take the vacation. Edited February 18, 2008 by koheesti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyj4 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Obviously not a family man, did you never go on holiday with your parents???.....most people love their kids & spending time with them....crying shitty nappies is still enjoyable....dont be such an ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koheesti Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 (edited) Obviously not a family man, did you never go on holiday with your parents???.....most people love their kids & spending time with them....crying shitty nappies is still enjoyable....dont be such an ??? News flash. You're being the ???. I said "If they want to take their kids it's up to them" but I would do it differently. Not a dam_n thing wrong with that. Any of you other proud parents have a problem with people voicing an opposing opinion? Then stay away from online forums. And yes, my family took many vacations. Not sure if I ever went as in infant (wouldn't remember if I did) but I'm certain we didn't go to any borderline 3rd world countries (well, Samui anyway, Bangkok is fine). Edited February 18, 2008 by koheesti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_hippo Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 (By the way, I feel strongly that the airlines should charge 10 times the adult fare for children under, say, two years old. If you don't agree, you've never been seated on a long-haul flight near a wailing infant.) Try a 14 hour flight as I did once - DHA-JFK on a PanAm 747SP with a lot of Saudi infants on board and you are wading through fully loaded disposable diapers that the mothers discarded by dropping them onto the floor. Now compare that to one wailing infant. I prefer many wailing infants to a planeload of drunken louts! You ask "Why bring small children on holiday?" Do you expect parents to put them in boarding kennels? What is the real reason for posing this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeFeller Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Mark, just ask the families you can see on the road and tell us their answers. And believe it or not: Babies and small children are a pleasant fulltime job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koheesti Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) And believe it or not: Babies and small children are a pleasant fulltime job. People with kids are constantly stressed out but always say it's a wonderful experience. That's instinct clouding their thinking. Sometimes it seems that the most clear thinking responsible people who would make great parents don't have kids because they are too clear thinking and responsible. Again, . I'm just joking. Kids are great. Well, toddlers are great. Personally, little lumps of goo-gooing & poo-pooing do nothing for me. But, if I ever had one of my own I'm sure he would be the most fantastic little lump in the history of mankind. But that's instinct. It keeps 99.9% of parents from abandoning or killing their kids - or eating them as they might have in the old days. For a good reason NOT to bring your baby to Samui, check out this video. Must be a nightmare for Mom & Dad. Edited February 19, 2008 by koheesti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 My Sis and Husband took their lil one (my niece) to Phuket when she was 2. She is nearly 5 now and still goes on about that trip. You will be surprised what lil ones remember, not mention they deserve a holiday as much as mum/dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koheesti Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) It appears that YouTube video I linked to is no longer there. But the image of the first frame is and that's enough. It's a large spider resting inside a baby stroller/pram. Edited February 19, 2008 by koheesti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 This has crossed my mind, but then I wonder what must be going through their minds. "Let's take a vacation in Thailand with the baby, even though it will probably be stressful and not really what we envisioned looking at the Website brochures." Maybe I am old school, but I always thought that having a baby meant no real vacations for a few years, or certainly nothing remarkable like international travel. (By the way, I feel strongly that the airlines should charge 10 times the adult fare for children under, say, two years old. If you don't agree, you've never been seated on a long-haul flight near a wailing infant.) -a vacation with a baby is the personal choice of parents. nobody should judge their decision. -i fully agree with your opinion on "wailing infant on a long flight"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mssabai Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I have some great memories of holidays when I was young with my family....and we still talk about those trips today, even if I was too young to remember them. It helps to create shared memories and I think helps bond a family together. Sure there was the odd nightmare trip or experience, but we laugh about those too. I loved holidaying with my family all the way up will about 14 when teenage tantrums ensured I was banned from future trips until my hormones had settled down. Have to say though on a purely selfish note...can't help but agree about babies on flights - but cannot see a solution. I think it is just bad luck if you get one, similar to ending up with the seat in front of the fire exit. You just have to lump it and hope your next flight is infant free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brizzle Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 More and more it seems I see adults with their very young children here in Lamai. I suppose I can understand having your five-year-old or older along for the amusement of the adults (a five-year-old won't remember anything about the trip, except possibly a vague general memory at best -- a younger child will remember nothing), but bringing a baby seems insane. An infant or even a kid of two or three is a chore at the best of times, so why would you bring one along on a vacation clear across the globe? Have these people never hear of babysitters? Don't give me this, "They want to experience the holiday as a family" crap; it's easy to have a "holiday" for a day or so near your own home. Traveling on an airplane for hours with transfers and ultimately staying in a hotel or bungalow for days far from normal amenities with the constant attention a baby needs seems to defeat the purpose of a "vacation." A "holiday" is defined as a time when one does not work. Taking care of a small child or infant is work, no question. So why bring the baby along? PS -- This has nothing to do with "liking children or not"; it's a matter of R&R (Rest and relaxation/ rehabilitation/ recreation). Could you elaborate on what normal amenities you refer to?. I live on Samui with my 3 month old and really don’t seem to be wanting for anything in particular. As regards your general ascertion there is an old saying I believe that goes along the lines of "don't knock what you havn't tried" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koheesti Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I have some great memories of holidays when I was young with my family....and we still talk about those trips today, even if I was too young to remember them. huh? Have to say though on a purely selfish note...can't help but agree about babies on flights - but cannot see a solution. I think it is just bad luck if you get one, similar to ending up with the seat in front of the fire exit. You just have to lump it and hope your next flight is infant free. To a point I agree it's just bad luck but plane tickets aren't cheap anymore and if someone pays that much they have the right to expect a certain level of service which DOES NOT include a baby crying most the way or else the airline should compensate them. Fortunately pressurization and headphones will drown out most the crying unless you are too close. The airlines should be careful about where they seat small children. BTW - do the parents have to pay full child price for infants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Off-topic, inflammatory and abusive posts have been deleted. lets not turn this into another trolling abuse filled topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominator Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 This is a difficult question. When I took my family on holiday, it was restricted to the UK, Spain and Portugal until the youngest was almost 5. Then we went to Florida. There was always lots to do and easy to find children something to eat. Canada was also another favorite. I feel that Thailand is not really geared up for children in the same way as Europe, USA and Canada. Apart from the beach, which is probably to hot for young children, and can become a bore after a while, there is not much else going on for them. Also to find good, clean food for them is not always easy unless you go to farang restaurants, and most of them are run buy the 'wife', whose idea of cleanliness differs somewhat to ours. When night falls....well that's another story, definatly not one for the little ones...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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