Business Loves Thaksin

[Pierrot]

Business approval (Fm Bangkok Post, today March 5, 2008)

Early reaction from top business executives to the government's new economic stimulus package is in. Basically, they love it but note that the baht is a little flaky and political stability is uncertain.

Paiboon Nalintarangkul, executive chairman of Tisco Securities Plc, said the economic stimulus scheme issued on Tuesday, if implemented efficiently, would benefit the Thai economy.

Should the government be able to maintain political stability and the interest rate decline, he said, it would make the economy grow 4.5-to-5 per cent this year ...

Despite some bold titles, not everybody has problem with the new government, far from it. Some objectivity would be greatly appreciated. A democratic debate is when all voices are heard.

(edited for formatting problem)

Edited March 5, 2008 by Pierrot

[Prakanong]

The FT (the worlds Financial paper of record many will argue) certainly gives him space to air his opinions.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0690ee68-e909-11...00779fd2ac.html

[sriracha john]

Not sure how your OP is connected to Thaksin in the thread title, as he's not mentioned anywhere in it...

but anyway, here's the business world take on Thaksin specifically.... he makes them "jittery"....

Thai business jittery at return of populist Thaksin

BANGKOK--Ousted Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra's homecoming has left business leaders wary as the self-made billionaire casts a long shadow over the new government's economic policies.

Although Thaksin repeated his vow to quit politics in a nationally televised news conference, doubts over his pledge soon emerged when the Finance Minister said he wanted ex-premier to be his advisor.

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee said Thaksin's entrepreneurial knowledge could help Thailand's economy, which has languished for the past two years.

But business leaders voiced worries that Thaksin's involvement could do more harm than good for the second largest economy in Southeast Asia.

"Thaksin knows how to improve the economy. In that sense, it's a good thing to have him as a policy advisor," said Kietphong Noichaiboon, vice chairman of the Federation of Thai Industries, the kingdom's biggest business group. "But Thaksin has many opponents. That's why we are worried about its political impact" on the economy, Kietphong said.

Pornsilp Patcharintanakul, deputy secretary general of the Board of Trade, a major business group, warned that even the perception that Thaksin had a hand in running the government could again spark street demonstrations and derail economic growth.

"I am already worried about a potential political crisis. Both his supporters and opponents want to exploit Thaksin's return for political purposes," Pornsilp said.

"If I were a foreign investor, I would wait and see instead of making new investments. The political situation is not getting better, and this is very negative for our economy," he said.

Lifting the flagging economy is one of the top priorities for the government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, an ally of Thaksin, who took office in early February.

Surapong, also one of Thaksin's most trusted aides, has said he would follow in the footsteps of the deposed premier. The Finance Minister also said he would kick start multi-billion-dollar public works projects, which were launched by Thaksin. He has vowed to bring at least 5.0-percent economic growth.

On Friday, the Bank of Thailand announced it would lift the currency controls, one of the most controversial measures imposed by the previous government in a bid to halt the Thai baht's rise against the dollar.

For Vallop Tiasiri, president of the Thai Automotive Institute, the sharp shift came as no surprise. "Although Thaksin is not directly involved in this government, he is still a very influential figure in Thai politics," said Vallop, whose state-funded agency promotes the auto industry. "I hope the government can control anti-Thaksin forces, but everybody is worried about the political situation," he said.

Kietphong agreed that while Thaksin had the right to return, he may spell political trouble. "In the last two years, our economy suffered due to political problems. We cannot suffer again," Kietphong said.

- Agence France-Presse

Edited March 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[Pierrot]

Agree, one can argue that what the business world hates more is political instability which as moment is created as much by Thaksin return than by PAD activities.

I was just complaining that not enough forum space is given to people who support the PPP and Thaksin and about the too complacent tone to describe the anti democratic activities of the PAD. As I said, a democratic debate is when all voices are heard.

[sriracha john]

Agree, one can argue that what the business world hates more is political instability which as moment is created as much by Thaksin return than by PAD activities.

I was just complaining that not enough forum space is given to people who support the PPP and Thaksin and about the too complacent tone to describe the anti democratic activities of the PAD. As I said, a democratic debate is when all voices are heard.

It's not like there is a space allocation for topics and opinions.

Perhaps there's simply not as much support for PPP amongst forum members as is there against it....and that, and not some self-perceived notion that Thaivisa wouldn't allocate space for a pro-PPP thread, is probably the more accurate assessment.

Thaivisa certainly doesn't stiffle opinion-voicing, if done so in accordance with some basic and simple rules.

As for PAD threads (if that's what your focus is and not what the OP purports), then there's a wide assortment of them currently in use.

[Thai at Heart]

I think it would be fairer to say that Thaksin understands modern business to a great degree. Whether he can achieve what he wants in light of a slow down in the US, and inflation in the domestic market is another issue.

In his interview he is I believe correct in stating that this is a very oppurtune time for Thailand to invest. Whether this will be enough to get the economy moving without blowing the govt finances to smithereens is another issue. That said I believe he has considerably more idea what may work than the previous bunch.

[gjones]

Either the op is naïve or this is another troll

[Pierrot]

It is an understatement to say that Thaksin understands modern business to a great degree.

Who are Thaksin major (personnal) trade partners in Asia :Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and China

What was the country most cited as an example by the opposition prior to the coup ? The Philippines!!

Pretty scary is you are business oriented. Or just worry about the future of your country ...

edited for some typing errors

Edited March 5, 2008 by Pierrot

[Pierrot]

Either the op is naïve or this is another troll

Sorry, but what's a troll ? Beside the small green guy in the fairytales and obviously someone who doesn't agree with you ?

Edited March 5, 2008 by Pierrot

[Thai at Heart]

It is an understatement to say that Thaksin understands modern business to a great degree.

Who are Thaksin major (personnal) trade partners in Asia :Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and China

What was the country most cited as an example by the opposition prior to the coup ? The Philippines!!

Pretty scary is you are business oriented. Or just worry about the future of your country ...

edited for some typing errors

Corruption has been alive and well long before Thaksin came along and will be here long after he leaves. What led to the comparison with the Philippines was the fact that it was believed/proven that companies connected with him benefitted from him being PM. Who believed when he was elected this wouldn't happen?????? Berlusconi headed up a G7 country without anyone accusing him of running a country such as the Philippines. Politicians the world over have abused their power both in and out of office for ever.

Did Thaksin rape the national assets like Marcos? He changed the rules to sell his company. Morally very dubious, but the clincher was that he rode the rules to avoid paying taxes. (Why he didn't pay I will never understand). These rules have been around for donkeys years. Are we so naive to believe that he was the first to exploit them? It is too simple to say Thaksin bad, all the others good. Why are the nominee laws so contentious? Because if they change them it will drag many other people into a mess also.

He built a successful business with a govt granted monopoly, saw what happened in 97 and ganged up with his business buddies to make sure that incompetent government would not get itself into that situation ever again. He owned a domestic telephone business and other Thai companies, so I don't really see how he was conducting major personal business with any individual country. He held the Thai phone market in his hands unopposed for years, and actually only had to give it up because of the mess of '97. Yes his satellite companies did business with governments, but so what. His company was selling a service.

If doing business with Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and China is a personal failure woe betide the whole of Asia. Who would you like him to do the majority of his business with? North Korea?

[Pierrot]

I believe the reference to the Philippines was a reference to the People Power movement, a "popular" uprising who topple some incompetent dictators to replace them with even more corrupted and incompetent leaders. And when they had the chance to find someone (Ramos) who seems to be efficient and leading the country the right way, they "democratically" asked him to leave. I hope people will understand Philippines is the right example of what NOT to do.

On the other hand, I completely support Thaksin's links with Singapore, China, HK and Japan. For the record, Singapore has recently been voted the favorite Asian destination for expats.

To SJ : My original intention was to ask for the publishing of more positive news (people happy of the current situation Vs the always unsatisfied) in order to promote more positive views of Thailand and less arguing. But reading the headlines regarding the revival of the PAD made me really angry, therefore the unintended aggressive tone of my posts. Unintentionally, my posts were actually a case in point …

More disturbing was your opinion that TV caters mostly to people supporting a military junta and opposing the war against drugs. I had to check twice that I didn't type by mistake "BurmaVisa" in the address bar…

PS : Don't expect from me less bad faith than from people supporting the other side.

[Prakanong]

It is an understatement to say that Thaksin understands modern business to a great degree.

Who are Thaksin major (personnal) trade partners in Asia :Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and China

What was the country most cited as an example by the opposition prior to the coup ? The Philippines!!

Pretty scary is you are business oriented. Or just worry about the future of your country ...

edited for some typing errors

Corruption has been alive and well long before Thaksin came along and will be here long after he leaves. What led to the comparison with the Philippines was the fact that it was believed/proven that companies connected with him benefitted from him being PM. Who believed when he was elected this wouldn't happen?????? Berlusconi headed up a G7 country without anyone accusing him of running a country such as the Philippines. Politicians the world over have abused their power both in and out of office for ever.

Did Thaksin rape the national assets like Marcos? He changed the rules to sell his company. Morally very dubious, but the clincher was that he rode the rules to avoid paying taxes. (Why he didn't pay I will never understand). These rules have been around for donkeys years. Are we so naive to believe that he was the first to exploit them? It is too simple to say Thaksin bad, all the others good. Why are the nominee laws so contentious? Because if they change them it will drag many other people into a mess also.

He built a successful business with a govt granted monopoly, saw what happened in 97 and ganged up with his business buddies to make sure that incompetent government would not get itself into that situation ever again. He owned a domestic telephone business and other Thai companies, so I don't really see how he was conducting major personal business with any individual country. He held the Thai phone market in his hands unopposed for years, and actually only had to give it up because of the mess of '97. Yes his satellite companies did business with governments, but so what. His company was selling a service.

If doing business with Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and China is a personal failure woe betide the whole of Asia. Who would you like him to do the majority of his business with? North Korea?

Excellent post.

Better than others abandoning their pro-business beliefs to yap on about selling a national asset.

[sriracha john]

I believe the reference to the Philippines was a reference to the People Power movement, a "popular" uprising who topple some incompetent dictators to replace them with even more corrupted and incompetent leaders. And when they had the chance to find someone (Ramos) who seems to be efficient and leading the country the right way, they "democratically" asked him to leave. I hope people will understand Philippines is the right example of what NOT to do.

On the other hand, I completely support Thaksin's links with Singapore, China, HK and Japan. For the record, Singapore has recently been voted the favorite Asian destination for expats.

To SJ : My original intention was to ask for the publishing of more positive news (people happy of the current situation Vs the always unsatisfied) in order to promote more positive views of Thailand and less arguing. But reading the headlines regarding the revival of the PAD made me really angry, therefore the unintended aggressive tone of my posts. Unintentionally, my posts were actually a case in point …

More disturbing was your opinion that TV caters mostly to people supporting a military junta and opposing the war against drugs. I had to check twice that I didn't type by mistake "BurmaVisa" in the address bar…

PS : Don't expect from me less bad faith than from people supporting the other side.

That's not what I wrote.

I said that it appears that there are more TV members opposed to PPP than are in favor of it.

As a side note on the Philippines, as a survivor of the Marcos era, no one subsequent to his 23 year tyrannical rule was worse.

[Thai at Heart]

I believe the reference to the Philippines was a reference to the People Power movement, a "popular" uprising who topple some incompetent dictators to replace them with even more corrupted and incompetent leaders. And when they had the chance to find someone (Ramos) who seems to be efficient and leading the country the right way, they "democratically" asked him to leave. I hope people will understand Philippines is the right example of what NOT to do.

On the other hand, I completely support Thaksin's links with Singapore, China, HK and Japan. For the record, Singapore has recently been voted the favorite Asian destination for expats.

To SJ : My original intention was to ask for the publishing of more positive news (people happy of the current situation Vs the always unsatisfied) in order to promote more positive views of Thailand and less arguing. But reading the headlines regarding the revival of the PAD made me really angry, therefore the unintended aggressive tone of my posts. Unintentionally, my posts were actually a case in point …

More disturbing was your opinion that TV caters mostly to people supporting a military junta and opposing the war against drugs. I had to check twice that I didn't type by mistake "BurmaVisa" in the address bar…

PS : Don't expect from me less bad faith than from people supporting the other side.

That's not what I wrote.

I said that it appears that there are more TV members opposed to PPP than are in favor of it.

As a side note on the Philippines, as a survivor of the Marcos era, no one subsequent to his 23 year tyrannical rule was worse.

There are many thins that I don't like about the way in which Thaksin ran the country, and as for the crack down on drugs, it was a truly frightening and tragic period for many innocent people. I hope to god they never go down this route again.

He is a product of the system within which he has worked for many years and it is the system that is absolutely wrong. The system has undergone some quite radical changes under the coup. Is it better? Absolutely not. Does it stop rampant corruption. Does it have proper checks and balances? Absolutley not. Is it still corruptible? Absolutley.

So this would lead one to believe that if I in my broadbrush understanding of Thai politics can see the problems, how come the coup leaders did not? Could it be possible that the system suits their interests also? Of course. The issue is about who gets the biggest slice of the pie.

[Samuian]

...it looks as many haven't got the very essence of WHY the coup has been staged, it wasn't primarily because Mr.Prime and his Cabinet was simply corrupt, it wasn't because so "many others before..." have been, it wasn't because they all favored (as before) cronyism....it wasn't because they were all good guys, that is for sure... it was staged because danger for the peace of the country and it population was imminent!

Does anyone of the "insiders" remember, it has been never ever mentioned since loudly again... I drop the name Yongyut... he was one of the first to have to go, to quit.... was it really about electoral fraud... about this provincial chief comin' to Bkk, about vote riggin'?

Ah well.... there are so many people sittin' on the fence, claiming to know it all - at least pretend to know better.

At least we ALL are spectators, one votes in this favor, another one for that favor and because just eyeballing what suit ME, MY interest most, the BIG PICTURE becomes at best a fuzzy puzzle!

Edited March 6, 2008 by Samuian

[Ricardo]

I don't see the connection, in your Thread Title, between former-PM Thaksin and the very cautious welcome given by business people to the new coaltion-led government's new economic steps ? Or do you say that, despite PM Samak's clear statements to the contrary, and despite Thaksin's clear promises not to get involved in Thai politics again, the new economic strategy is in fact attributable to Thaksin ?

I believe the reference to the Philippines was a reference to the People Power movement, a "popular" uprising who topple some incompetent dictators to replace them with even more corrupted and incompetent leaders. And when they had the chance to find someone (Ramos) who seems to be efficient and leading the country the right way, they "democratically" asked him to leave. I hope people will understand Philippines is the right example of what NOT to do.

I agree with you that Thailand didn't need a Ferdinand Marcos in charge.

On the other hand, I completely support Thaksin's links with Singapore, China, HK and Japan. For the record, Singapore has recently been voted the favorite Asian destination for expats.

Hopefully this isn't a hint to expat posters here ? ! We who chose to live here obviously prefer Thailand, for very many varied reasons, to Singapore. Some of us might disagree with Thaksin's perceived wish to make Thailand more like that country.

To SJ : My original intention was to ask for the publishing of more positive news (people happy of the current situation Vs the always unsatisfied) in order to promote more positive views of Thailand and less arguing. But reading the headlines regarding the revival of the PAD made me really angry, therefore the unintended aggressive tone of my posts. Unintentionally, my posts were actually a case in point …

I don't think it promotes positive views of Thailand, to over-praise Thaksin, and to wish to promote that view might be taken to be close to propaganda. Didn't your hero hire a US public-relations firm, after his departure from office, to help negatively colour the world's view of the junta & Thailand ?

More disturbing was your opinion that TV caters mostly to people supporting a military junta and opposing the war against drugs. I had to check twice that I didn't type by mistake "BurmaVisa" in the address bar…

This is a common smear, against people who dislike Thaksin, or believe that murdering innocent people, in the war against drugs, was wrong. Personally I believe that Thailand is not like Burma, and alleged drugs-dealers should be tried in court, rather than blasting-away at all-and-sundry.

PS : Don't expect from me less bad faith than from people supporting the other side. ? I suggest you read the forum-rule, against flaming other posters, as accusing people who disagree with you of bad faith might be taken to be derogatory. I'm sure you didn't intend that.

[Pierrot]

I meant everything I wrote. If it was against forum rules, I'm sure I would have already been informed by a person in charge, one of them you are not I believe.

Regarding who is of good faith and who is of bad faith, people are free to make their own mind.

No further comments.

[Thai at Heart]

...it looks as many haven't got the very essence of WHY the coup has been staged, it wasn't primarily because Mr.Prime and his Cabinet was simply corrupt, it wasn't because so "many others before..." have been, it wasn't because they all favored (as before) cronyism....it wasn't because they were all good guys, that is for sure... it was staged because danger for the peace of the country and it population was imminent!

Does anyone of the "insiders" remember, it has been never ever mentioned since loudly again... I drop the name Yongyut... he was one of the first to have to go, to quit.... was it really about electoral fraud... about this provincial chief comin' to Bkk, about vote riggin'?

Ah well.... there are so many people sittin' on the fence, claiming to know it all - at least pretend to know better.

At least we ALL are spectators, one votes in this favor, another one for that favor and because just eyeballing what suit ME, MY interest most, the BIG PICTURE becomes at best a fuzzy puzzle!

People are sitting on the fence because it is an enormously delicate subject. (sic)

[PadThaiGuy]

The Military and their cronies robbed the country blind over the last year and a half.

With Thaksin back, business should be looking good real soon.

Look for huge returns in the Thai stock market..especially companies associated with Thaksin.

[jumnien]

It's amazing that so many Westerners still support and justify the military juntas in Myanmar and Thailand. Disgraceful really!

[Pierrot]

100% agree with sunrise07

Both USA and France currently have very controversial leaders but if someone in the opposion suggests staging a coup against the current president, he will have a 100% unanimity .... against him !!!

[BigSnake]

Yes they do he is a smart Business man. He is the MAN>

[sriracha john]

Not sure how your OP is connected to Thaksin in the thread title, as he's not mentioned anywhere in it...

but anyway, here's the business world take on Thaksin specifically.... he makes them "jittery"....

Thai business jittery at return of populist Thaksin

BANGKOK--Ousted Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra's homecoming has left business leaders wary as the self-made billionaire casts a long shadow over the new government's economic policies.

Although Thaksin repeated his vow to quit politics in a nationally televised news conference, doubts over his pledge soon emerged when the Finance Minister said he wanted ex-premier to be his advisor.

- Agence France-Presse

So the business world doesn't have confidence in this government.... or at the very least, is "jittery"....

and now the general public says it doesn't have any confidence either... perhaps the only "Business Loves Thaksin" that is accurate are those that sell firearms and ammunition....

Poll: Public Doesn't Have Faith in Govt to Solve Economic Problems

An ABAC poll finds that most Thais don't have faith in the government's attempts to solve the country's economic problems.

ABAC Poll Director, Noppadon Kannikar has revealed that 57.8 percent of those surveyed in the poll do not have much faith in the government's ability to solve the country's economic woes. Only 5.9 percent said they trust that the government will be able to solve the economic problems.

17.3 percent believe the stability of their income over the next six months will continue to be poor, while 20.4 percent believe it will remain good.

More than 80 percent of those surveyed have no plans to make large purchases such as buying a house, a car, or electrical appliances in the next three months. 69.2 percent admitted to not living life sufficiently while only 2.6 percent said they do so.

Thais ranked their happiness at 6.49 out of 10, with those who feel they're living a sufficient lifestyle happier than those who don't.

Meanwhile, in a survey of credit card users in Thailand, most said they hold credit cards issued by commercial banks, with Krung Thai Bank being the most popular, followed by Citibank and Siam Commercial Bank.

About a third uses their credit cards to purchase consumer goods while half uses them to fill up at petrol stations and 46 percent uses them on dining bills.

About 42 percent of those surveyed have two credit cards while a third has four credit cards or more. The higher the number of credit cards, the more the credit card debt. 54 percent of those with two credit cards are in debt while 63 percent of those with four credit cards or more hold credit card debts.

- Thailand Outlook

[Maizefarmer]

The Military and their cronies robbed the country blind over the last year and a half.

With Thaksin back, business should be looking good real soon.

Look for huge returns in the Thai stock market..especially companies associated with Thaksin.

Quite so, quite so .... and, referring to the thread title i.e. "Business Loves Thaksin, And they are not the only ones...." ... just keen to see what tune the forum will dance to if/when Thaksin becames flavour of the month again.

[Tony Clifton]

The Military and their cronies robbed the country blind over the last year and a half.

With Thaksin back, business should be looking good real soon.

Look for huge returns in the Thai stock market..especially companies associated with Thaksin.

Molecules when compared to the galactic proportions of what went on under TRT.

It's amazing that so many Westerners still support and justify the military juntas in Myanmar and Thailand. Disgraceful really!

It's amazing that a few Westerners still compare Thailand's military junta and Myanmar's. Misleading really!

[Ricardo]

It's amazing that so many Westerners still support and justify the military juntas in Myanmar and Thailand. Disgraceful really!

Same old smear.

These are surely two very different situations !

And how do you come to the conclusion, that "many Westerners still support and justify the military juntas in Myanmar", I just don't see any evidence for that. Sorry.

Regarding the new economic-package, it looks to me to be doing very little, to help the poor, and rather more to help the middle-class (who might pay some income-tax) or rich (who own the companies. Did the PPP really not have better policies ready, than the ones just announced, when they went into the election ?

[rixalex]

The Military and their cronies robbed the country blind over the last year and a half.

Care to substantiate that claim? Unless i've missed it, there's no evidence to suggest that anyone involved with the coup suddenly became unusually rich after it was staged.

On the other hand, the evidence against Thaksin is as plain as the nose on your face. Not even the Thaksin fanaticals i think would deny that he abused his power for personal gain. Or are there people out there who are really that blind?

To answer my own question, i fear sadly yes.

[Pierrot]

The Military and their cronies robbed the country blind over the last year and a half.

Care to substantiate that claim? Unless i've missed it, there's no evidence to suggest that anyone involved with the coup suddenly became unusually rich after it was staged.

On the other hand, the evidence against Thaksin is as plain as the nose on your face. Not even the Thaksin fanaticals i think would deny that he abused his power for personal gain. Or are there people out there who are really that blind?

To answer my own question, i fear sadly yes.

Care to substantiate that claim? Unless i've missed it, there's no evidence to suggest that Mr Thaksin suddenly became unusually rich after becoming PM. (he was already unusually rich before)

On the other hand, the evidence against the Junta is as plain as the nose on your face. Not even the Junta fanaticals i think would deny that they abused their power for personal gain. Or are there people out there who are really that blind?

To answer my own question, i fear sadly that bad faith is ruling here

[rixalex]

The Military and their cronies robbed the country blind over the last year and a half.

Care to substantiate that claim? Unless i've missed it, there's no evidence to suggest that anyone involved with the coup suddenly became unusually rich after it was staged.

On the other hand, the evidence against Thaksin is as plain as the nose on your face. Not even the Thaksin fanaticals i think would deny that he abused his power for personal gain. Or are there people out there who are really that blind?

To answer my own question, i fear sadly yes.

Care to substantiate that claim? Unless i've missed it, there's no evidence to suggest that Mr Thaksin suddenly became unusually rich after becoming PM. (he was already unusually rich before)

On the other hand, the evidence against the Junta is as plain as the nose on your face. Not even the Junta fanaticals i think would deny that they abused their power for personal gain. Or are there people out there who are really that blind?

To answer my own question, i fear sadly that bad faith is ruling here

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I can't help thinking however in this case it's just a sign of immaturity and an inability to answer a straightforward question.

This time, perhaps rather than dazzling all of us with your skills of cut, paste and edit, you might actually show us the hard evidence you have that the military robbed the country.

[rixalex]

Mr Pierrot,

Just to show you're not the only one who can cut and paste...

This is your personal statement that i just saw on your profile:

One should never argues with an idiot. People watching might not know the difference

Ironic.

Guess i should take your advice.