No Kissing

[Samuian]

weird stuff happens in this funny world again and again!

There are some comedians out there~

[intumult]

Anyway, can we (I am guilty also) get off the deviant track and back to the topic.

Apologies to the ladies for the deviances.

[rixalex]

Unless i've missed it, you still haven't mentioned your age. Why are you being coy about this?

[submaniac]

And when you two are alone, in a confined space, like a taxi...or even better yet, an elevator, just rip a big loud fart too. Sexy!

hence the dutch oven. (letting one go under the sheets, then pulling them over her head)

Oh, that's the "dutch oven". I thought it was a metaphor for...I guess..."laying pipe". How about the "golden shower"? All girls love the "golden shower".

Are you obsessed with bodily functions Sub? Gross.

Sorry, with all the talk about wet willies, nosepicking, wedgies and farting, I could not help but revert to junior high school days.

[Momo8]

I don't have a problem with it.All my past boyfriends before I met my husband sniffed my ears,licked me,pulled up my panties up and gave me golden showers before farting.Then they tried to kiss me.

Lol with advice like that you can't go wrong Intumult.

Back on track,well only you know what's going on.Why not ask her straight out 'Can I have a kiss?' Or tell her you want to be her bf then see what hapens.Assuming of course you can make her understand what you are saying.But really,will you really be satisfied with someone who can't hold a decent discussion with you about anything?

So what if she looks gorgeous.Many girls are gorgeous.Take the blinders and beer googles off and assess the situation from a realistic point of view.If you have serious relationship plans with this woman then play along.If you just want to shag her well she's not into you or playing games.Forget it and move on.

[Andiamo]

I know you have posted in response to Rue about you seeing many older Farang guys with younger Thai women and therefore in your eyes, there is nothing wrong with this. This is fine.

Pls allow me to give my opinion from a female farang perspective who has only ever had farang boyfriends/partners.

Just to say that the first time I was starting to see what, for me, was an older guy, if I look back and if I am honest, I was a bit overwhelmed... (I was 26-27 then as had been in a long term relationship prior to this for MANY years!). The fact that he was a MAN and not a younger guy more around my age made me think that he was gonna expect me to get straight down to it. Rather than take it slower, like guys more my age.

Thus, although I would hold hands etc, I was reluctant to kiss at first as thought that was gonna lead straight to bed. Oh how naive I was then!

Bearing in mind I am a Welsh gal and not Thai and this was with a European guy here in Bangkok!

Although, I do take your point that here in Thailand, the age gap is not perecived by Thais as such a big deal as it would be in the West. (I think it would be fair to say this). So, here it's not seen, by Thais, as being so different or odd.

Holding hands based on my reasoning above is NOT strange, but what IS strange though from a Thai perspective, is doing it in front of her parents, touching your leg etc, coming away with you to Bangkok etc with no chaperone even though you had separate rooms...

Another thing to bear in mind which I have heard from Thai female friends is that Farang guys also don't always have the best of reputations amongst Thai girls/women as they know that once they have been bedded, the thrill of the chase has gone and then he doesn't call as much and may also be a bit of a 'butterfly'...... Just my tuppence worth as this may be why she is holding back and making you wait maybe....

Could also be as others have mentioned that she is holding out for a proposal or for you to declare you are more serious about her first.....

If you are serious about this girl, you might wanna consider drawing back from physical displays towards her - see how she reacts...... But maybe you are not into 'playing games'.

Of course this can also be countered by that delicious anticipation at the start of any relationship in terms of is he gonna kiss me... hold my hand, touch me differently tonight etc. Do you think she is feeling this? It sounds like you are! As you should be! BUt so should she. Or she just may not be that into you.....

Relationships should be give and take equally on both sides and Passion is a BIG part of relationships, especially at the beginning! Depends what you and SHE are looking for in a relationship... Companionship, Passion, Love, Laughter, Stability etc etc.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Andiamo

[Momo8]

'Just to say that the first time I was starting to see what, for me, was an older guy, if I look back and if I am honest, I was a bit overwhelmed... (I was 26-27 then as had been in a long term relationship prior to this for MANY years!). The fact that he was a MAN and not a younger guy more around my age made me think that he was gonna expect me to get straight down to it. Rather than take it slower, like guys more my age.'

26-27 is not a man? Lol my husband is much younger than me but if the chemistry isn't there it's not there.Chinese people especially the younger generation don't have any qualms about chemistry.(In response to the OP saying she's half Chinese).

If the heavens don't weep,the angels sing and the lightning bolt doesn't strike on BOTH sides,well then.......Better just ask her straight out OP and don't waste your time on forums or real life speculating about it.

[Andiamo]

'Just to say that the first time I was starting to see what, for me, was an older guy, if I look back and if I am honest, I was a bit overwhelmed... (I was 26-27 then as had been in a long term relationship prior to this for MANY years!). The fact that he was a MAN and not a younger guy more around my age made me think that he was gonna expect me to get straight down to it. Rather than take it slower, like guys more my age.'

26-27 is not a man? Lol my husband is much younger than me but if the chemistry isn't there it's not there.Chinese people especially the younger generation don't have any qualms about chemistry.(In response to the OP saying she's half Chinese).

If the heavens don't weep,the angels sing and the lightning bolt doesn't strike on BOTH sides,well then.......Better just ask her straight out OP and don't waste your time on forums or real life speculating about it.

Clarification, Pls see above momo8, I was 26-27 and I am female!! HE was an older guy.

[intumult]

I know you have posted in response to Rue about you seeing many older Farang guys with younger Thai women and therefore in your eyes, there is nothing wrong with this. This is fine.

Pls allow me to give my opinion from a female farang perspective who has only ever had farang boyfriends/partners.

Just to say that the first time I was starting to see what, for me, was an older guy, if I look back and if I am honest, I was a bit overwhelmed... (I was 26-27 then as had been in a long term relationship prior to this for MANY years!). The fact that he was a MAN and not a younger guy more around my age made me think that he was gonna expect me to get straight down to it. Rather than take it slower, like guys more my age.

Thus, although I would hold hands etc, I was reluctant to kiss at first as thought that was gonna lead straight to bed. Oh how naive I was then!

Bearing in mind I am a Welsh gal and not Thai and this was with a European guy here in Bangkok!

Although, I do take your point that here in Thailand, the age gap is not perecived by Thais as such a big deal as it would be in the West. (I think it would be fair to say this). So, here it's not seen, by Thais, as being so different or odd.

Holding hands based on my reasoning above is NOT strange, but what IS strange though from a Thai perspective, is doing it in front of her parents, touching your leg etc, coming away with you to Bangkok etc with no chaperone even though you had separate rooms...

Another thing to bear in mind which I have heard from Thai female friends is that Farang guys also don't always have the best of reputations amongst Thai girls/women as they know that once they have been bedded, the thrill of the chase has gone and then he doesn't call as much and may also be a bit of a 'butterfly'...... Just my tuppence worth as this may be why she is holding back and making you wait maybe....

Could also be as others have mentioned that she is holding out for a proposal or for you to declare you are more serious about her first.....

If you are serious about this girl, you might wanna consider drawing back from physical displays towards her - see how she reacts...... But maybe you are not into 'playing games'.

Of course this can also be countered by that delicious anticipation at the start of any relationship in terms of is he gonna kiss me... hold my hand, touch me differently tonight etc. Do you think she is feeling this? It sounds like you are! As you should be! BUt so should she. Or she just may not be that into you.....

Relationships should be give and take equally on both sides and Passion is a BIG part of relationships, especially at the beginning! Depends what you and SHE are looking for in a relationship... Companionship, Passion, Love, Laughter, Stability etc etc.

OK.... to the relevent bits.

Age, not a barrier accepted and agree with from what I have seen.

I do appreciate holding hands may not in itself be such a big thing. But to do it in front of her parents was a surprise to me. As was the invite out to lunch with her parents in the first instance.

BKK was confusing. Going with me albeit in seperate rooms. Unless she was thinking I had another lady friend there.

Holding out for a proposal. She will have to wait for that - beautiful as she is. Long term? That would be cool.

If I refrain from touching her or sit a little way away, as I do at times to gauge her reaction, it does not take long before my hand is grasped.

If she is not into me then time will tell and if that is the case, I will be off.

I tried to get a kiss and later an explanation of her refusal, her English is not up to that standard as yet. I did not want to ask why she refused immediately because that would have seemed a bad, moody, pushy way to react imho.

interesting post though, along with a few others.

maybe I am going to have to be patient until she learns English better - especially as my grasp of Thai is slow - before I find out what is really going on inside that smouldering beauty.

[intumult]

Unless i've missed it, you still haven't mentioned your age. Why are you being coy about this?

my age has been mentioned and is also in my profile.

currently 53

Told by the daughter of the mini-bus boss, today, that I look under 50. Sweet little thing from Chiang Mai her mother introduced me to today.

They can be very flattering

[RueFang]

$Ching ching$. You absolutely sure she's not playing for your money? You have read all the literature from the thousands of men been there before you, I take it? Even though she's not a bar girl, is Chinese, has an education (?) and never lets you pay for anything (now)... she's 25 you are 53 and can hardly say 2 words to each other and you're seriously wondering why she won't kiss you. Good lord men and women do come from different planets.

I'm all for these types of relationships if all you want is a pretty ornament on your arm and all she wants is your money..if it's mutual go for it, but to turn it into some great love story is a bit nauseating. This story is so cliche I really can't believe another one has fallen for it, but I am sure you are different and she genuinely is madly in love with someone older then her father. Good luck, hope it all works out for you.

Edited March 7, 2008 by RueFang

[Momo8]

Maybe she needs a sugar daddy then

[burman]

^^ Ruefarang said it right.

There's a very clear answer to this, completely obvious, everyone knows it, even the OP.

25 girls do not like kissing 53 year old men.

Delusional to even suggest that it's because she is Chinese Thai. If the OP was 25/30/35 yrs old the situation would be so very different.

Anyway, a theory, and one I'll base on what I've seen many a time. The girl is giving you just enough to make you think you are her bf, but not enough that she actually has to go so far as have sex or even kiss you. I'd put pound to a penny that requests for money will be coming when you get you get back home.

[Momo8]

Alas have to agree.The age gap is way toooooooooooo big.Generationa gap.

[britmaveric]

Try to kiss her cheek? (then slight sniff)

Could always point to your cheek and mimic a kiss - when she goes to kiss your cheek, turn your head - smack joop on your lips.

[rixalex]

Put it this way, if you were a 25 year old lad would you be falling over yourself to get jiggy with a 53 year old woman?

[RueFang]

Put it this way, if you were a 25 year old lad would you be falling over yourself to get jiggy with a 53 year old woman?

It does seem to be working out for Demi Moore though, so you never can tell!

Seriously Intumult, it's going to be a blow to your ego because of course it's wonderful to have a young, gorgeous woman apparently really into you, but you are getting played... the good girl act only goes so far and even good, well educated, chinese thai lasses would give out some tongue in that time frame if she was remotely attracted to you. Either face up to having a bit of hit to your ego now or in a couple of years face your lack of funds in the bank. Read the books man, read the books! Note the similarities and have a happy, rich retirement.

[kat]

I'm all for these types of relationships if all you want is a pretty ornament on your arm and all she wants is your money..if it's mutual go for it, but to turn it into some great love story is a bit nauseating.

Don't hold back, Rue.

In all seriousness, there have been a lot of good comments here. I just want to add that culture is a big dynamic, even between Thai-Chinese, and Chinese-Chinese, so it is not exactly the same across the board.

It could be that she is so young, works in a 7-11 as do one of her parents (as I think you mentioned previously OP), has limited English skills, that you are most likely her first farang catch, and maybe even one of the first "serious" boyfriends, or even older men. Those are a lot of firsts, combined with vastly different cultures and language differences. She probably doesn't even have a lot of experience with kissing, never mind farangs or older men. All though kissing and other forms of "Western" dating is more widespread with young people in the cities, it still is relatively "foreign" as a dating ritual for others without much exposure, especially a young woman who may be with her first farang "catch".

[gbt71fa]

Try to kiss her cheek? (then slight sniff)

Could always point to your cheek and mimic a kiss - when she goes to kiss your cheek, turn your head - smack joop on your lips.

I always wondered why my wife liked to rub her nose against my neck and face and sniff me. I thought it was just another way to turn me on....it worked.

[kat]

Yeah, it can be a little confusing for us, so I imagine our dating or signs of affection are equally confusing for them. When I first arrived in LOS, one of my first boyfriends was a Burmese guy who worked for the same NGO. He looked urbane and contemporary, but I was most definitely the first Western woman he had ever dated, and he was the first SEA guy for me (who was not Western). When we were first together, he obviously didn't understand deep mouth kissing the way I did, but he would make this elaborate, affectionate display of running his face along my body, neck, and face to deeply and closely inhale my skin, and show me with his face how good it was for him, and I would think ..... <deleted>???

Cultural differences are equally baffling, for both us and them, because what we take as a given isn't automatically universal.

*Added: And, I have to add, it is most definitely because he wasn't a prostitute. He would be considered almost inexperienced compared to the West, with very few previous girlfriends. It is because in the most SEA "traditional" environments that are the furtherest away from Western influences, the tongue kiss or deep mouth kissing is not really a part of their tradition. That is something that is relatively new, and most influenced by the West.

Edited March 7, 2008 by kat

[kat]

Here's a perspective from a young, modern, Thai woman:

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php?blog=1...p;tb=1&pb=1

"A Kiss is just a kiss ... or is it?"

P. D. A. You may know it as the acronym for “Personal Data Assistant”. You know, PalmPilot and such. But there’s also another term it stands for. Public Display of Affection.

Today, we’ll talk about one aspect of the PDA in Thai culture that, depending on the word used, can mean two different actions that is pretty much the same thing. It’s the “Kiss”.

Brandon and I were laying on the couch watching TV one day. He had his arms around me. I guess my mind was elsewhere when I thought I gave him a kiss on the arm.

“Honey. Um. What the heck did you just do?”

“What? What did I do?”

“I think you just tried to snort my arm hair.”

“No. I kissed it.”

“You used your nose to kiss?”

“Well. That's how Thai people kiss.”

That was indeed a Thai expat Freudian slip of sort.

As I was growing up, the only kind of “kiss” I know is what Thai people called “Homm”. Homm literally means a pleasant smell. As a verb, it means to put your nose to the other person's skin and inhale quickly, as if to take in the scent of the person, creating a brief vacuum on the skin, and let go. It’s a very chaste PDA.

Yes. That is what my parents showered us with growing up. That is what my grandmother gave us on the cheeks or on the top of our heads. That is what I did to show my affection to my entourage of stuffed animals.

I guess this is how we have come up with the phrase Nuea Homm--fragrant skin—to describe an attractive man/woman with a throng of suitors. Because to show affection to that person is not by taste on the lips but the scent of their skin.

That is what you see on Thai soap operas and movies: the leading man homm the leading lady. Even when things get, well, a little hot in the bedroom, the action you’d see on the screen is of the leading man nuzzling the leading lady. Not using his mouth on her, but his nose.

The act of homm even goes as far as when we’d imitate Western cultures in theater and movies with the greeting of kissing people on the cheeks and kissing on the hand. I've seen people do it with not their lips but their noses. That leads me to wonder sometimes how our very own Cardinal Michael Meechai Kitbunchu "kiss" the Pope’s ring…

Now. Flip the TV to your VCR and play your American movies. We are now seeing people using their lips on each other.

Kissing in the Western sense is defined in the dictionary as “to touch or caress with the lips as an expression of affection, greeting, respect, or amorousness.” This is what Thai people would call “Joop”.

While a homm is Thai standard of PDA, a little one on the cheek here and there in public sometimes people are willing to ignore. But if it is a joop, usually implies a kiss on the lips, now that’s scandalous. Until recent years, I believe, you don’t see anybody putting their lips on anybody on Thai television.

Back in the early 1990s, the original Koo Gham (aka. "Sunset at Chao Praya") soap series caused a huge brouhaha when the word was out about "the kiss". It was such a cultural uproar that they would have our Japanese solider hero Kobori, played fantastically by Thailand’s mega entertainer Bird McIntyre, kiss our heroine on the lips in their “love scene”. (She was married to him in a politically arranged marriage and there would be no consumation of marriage. She "hates" him because he's the enemy, but he truly loves her. So he returned home one night drunk as a skunk and foreced himself on her. It is common in Thai soap for this love-rage type thing. It's not a "rape", mind you. That's another blog for another time.) If I remember correctly, that kiss, more of a lip mashing really—was the first on-the-mouth screen kiss for television.

They said they weren’t going for a more realistic joop to protect the actress’ real life innocence, but they did want to convey Kobori's passion and therefore the kiss on the lips was necessary. The media went into a frenzy about the lead actress' “first kiss ever” onscreen and if was also her first kiss in real life as well. (I mean, HELLOOO, having P'Bird for your first kiss? A Thai girl can't possibly ask for more than that!) The media also went as far as questioning the actress' ability to ever work as the prim and proper leading lady again after having been kissed on the lips on screen.

The night the show aired, the whole country rushed home to watch that pivotal moment. Almost the entire country witnessed the first Thai joop paak—kiss on the mouth—ever broadcasted. Collective hearts of teenage girls everywhere, including yours truly, skipped a beat as we imagined that it was OUR lips P’Bird mashed with. And/or that one day all of us would get our lips mashed by a handsome and sensitive young Japanese solider.

A year or so later, I believe there was another soap that has the "joop" in them. First it was the leading man with the bitchy/slutty soon-to-be ex-girlfriend. I think they got better at kissing with this one because the girlfriend is supposed to be morally corrupted and "experienced". Therefore she and our leading man could kiss more passionately. Still, it was not what you'd see in American programs. Definitely awkward. And, of course, we're back to the lip mashing with the leading lady at the "breaking the will" love scene.

Moral of the story? Bad people can "joop" really well because they've lived in sin and well experienced in the arts of love while the good ones are awkward and wooden because they're innocent and pure. Hence, kissing with the bad girl and forced lip mashing with the good girl.

In that case, I am totally a bad girl. But I don't kiss and tell. Well, at least not here. ;-)

Anyways. I don’t know why we do what we do, using our nose instead of out lips to show affection. Maybe tasting people is gross, but taking in their scent is not. Maybe because using your lips make the action more erotic than a good clean sniff of the cheek so we stick with something more chaste. Who knows!

But at least now you know about the differences in Thai kisses. Just in case some of you get lucky and someone lays a good smack of the nose on your cheek, you wouldn’t be completely caught off guard.

[seonai]

IMHO... most Thai women wouldn't be hanging around alone in a bar in the first place. Most Thai women would come on the first date with a friend. And no decent Thai woman would hold hands with you in front of her parents unless she wanted to make a show of the fact that she's found someone to take care of her. As in the parents won't have to pay for her any more cos you will. Unfortunately this type of behaviour only comes from low class Thais.

Sounds very weird to me OP, sorry

[kat]

Yes, have to concur that the holding hands in front of the parents is strange.

*added: and magnify the strange behavior with the fact that you are foreigner, and explanations start to fall into place, although they may not be what you want to hear.

Edited March 7, 2008 by kat

[rixalex]

I think it's a natural human trait for men to always maintain a belief that we are sexually attractive. Of course i'm not saying that old men can't be sexually attractive, but more than likely not for a young 25 year old girl.

Older men may have a different appeal such as security (financial and otherwise) and maturity. Accepting these reasons as being why a young beautiful girl is intereted in us, rather than because of our dashing good looks, is difficult, because if we accept that we are no longer sexually attractive, as a man there's not much left to live for - unless of course libido and interest in sex for the man no longer exists.

I have no doubt that when i reach the age of 53, i too will be in denial. LOL... maybe i already am!!!

[smartecosse]

you must be winding us up?

you are 53 she is 25, neither of you can speak to each other in any coherent manner..............

match made in heaven mate - go for it. Bet you will have loads of fun hanging out at all the clubs with her friends etc, be able to relate to her as well as after all you are only a generation apart..................

[intumult]

An overview

I do understand the 'sniff kiss'. Had a lot of those in the past. Quite sexy and arousing they can be too - or I am not normal

As for not being able to speak to her, it does help when you both speak the same language with some fluency and as I have said before, I am learning Thai slowly and she has bought 2 books to help her learn English and I am also helping her with English too. As for now, we sort of get along just fine, albeit with difficulties but isn't that part of the fun and enjoyment of building a relationship? If she was fluent in English then I would want to know where she learned it and why

I'm not so sure about men over 50 not being sexually attractive. I have had my fair share of offers. And my fair share of shaggy shaggy since being up here.

He_l even the boss of the mini-bus set up introduced me to her daughter yesterday telling me that her daughter wanted to meet me (this happening next door to my ex g/f shop). Delicate and quite sexy little thing down here from Chiang Mai. She told me I look a lot younger too

Had a similar incident today. I love it!!! All the flattery makes me feel 10 years younger LOL I realise also that they are often after something

I have one of the ladies here at the apartments offering to do my laundry and clean my room etc for free after my ex g/f (who helped me find the place) told her she is not my wife but a friend. Seems the lady in question smiled broadly at the information.

It does not really matter to me if the lady in question is 25 / 35 / 45 it is the overall qualities that matter. You can have b*tchy people (male and female) at any age.

Yeah, I met the parents after being asked out to lunch by the daughter. I do realise the significance of meeting the parents. I was also surprised at her reactions at holding hands during and after lunch. Is also why I cannot figure out the no kissing (or maybe now I can) and that she is after a long term (married) relationship and is keeping the kissing for later.

On the other hand I might be being led up the garden path for some as yet undisclosed reason. Time will tell.

As for the idea she was in a nightclub on her own. In the first instance, she was out with friends, on a couple of other occasions she invited friends but they failed to turn up. Yes, she goes with me to places without a chaperone, maybe that shows a sign of trust in me or that she is simply happy for others to see we are a couple. That walk in the park, for example, maybe a lot of Thai women would be disgusted, on the other hand, they would have no idea how long we have been together, so for them to form an opinion would be based on their own perceptions, not based on knowledge.

BKK? That is different. I am surprised she asked to go. It does seem beyond normal boundaries. But she did get a seperate room and nothing untoward happened, though I admit, it something could have happened. Yet if it was to make sure I was not going there to see another woman, that would make her reasoning understandable, especially if she is serious about this relationship.

Overall, I am happy to settle into a full relationship with the right female and understand that might be a long time coming or it could well be this one, - even if she is 25 - gauging it by some information here and also in PM's that I have received.

Seeing her in her shower cap and wrapped in towels in the middle of the street and with her unkempt hair early on the morning I returned her ID card has heightened my liking of her

I will have to wait (happily if unknowingly) for an explanation on the 'no kissing' when either she or I can speak more fluently. I was curious to see if there could be some reason that I was unaware of that other posters had encountered, or had knowledge of. That was my main reason for posting. The rest was merely information to give background.

In some respects this has been informative and some of the replies said a lot as did the PM's I got. They will know who they are.

Some replies were fun too and part of the territory of posting a question like this is to be kicked a few times and being accused of trolling. Mai bpen rai.

I do feel there is more to this than meets the eye. Maybe something in the background that I do not know about. Maybe in a week or so it will be all over. Only time will reveal all, or I hope it will reveal some.

[rainx]

Thai culture is becoming so diverse. I know some Thai women in their 20s, college-educated, who still ‘save’ themselves for marriage. I also know some Thai women, also college-educated, who would share a hotel room (and the bed) with a guy they meet online, not because they want money but because they find the men attractive. The kissing rule, how long to wait, with whom to do it, seems to be different for each individual.

At 21, when I told a Westerner that I had never kissed anyone, he did not believe me. Another guy did not believe me that at that age I was still a virgin. I thought that in Thai culture it was normal to be that sexually inexperienced. I refused to kiss even though the men who asked me for a kiss I found attractive. Why? Maybe I was programmed to wait and proceed very slowly.

I tend to do poorly when it comes to assessing social interactions. I might interact with a guy at a party one night and got the impression that he really enjoyed talking to me and then a week later was a little surprised that my roommate told me that the guy liked me. ‘How could you not notice?’ they would ask. On some occasions I had no clue that the men were interested until they asked me if they could sleep with me.

If I am attracted to someone, I never have the courage to tell the person, and as a social idiot, I don’t know how to drop hints. There was one guy that I found very attractive. He flew from Europe to see me three times after we met. We hung out for hours and hours, and hanging out was all we did. No handholding, no kissing, and, of course, no sex. I probably would kiss him if he had asked me, but he never did. To these days I still don’t know if he liked me as a friend or if there was something more. My theory is that I am an exceptionally exhilarating conversationalist, to keep a young, attractive man up all night talking to me.

Then there was an expat who is old enough to be my father. Too old and too fat, but some of my friends are really old, like in their 80s, male and female. As long as they are fun to be around, age does not matter. I thought, this person could be my friend. After all, it is nice to have friends with whom you can spend Saturday nights watching movies and having idle conversations about whatever. I could talk to the expat about anything, including the guy that I liked (who was my age). I might be a social idiot, but I think that ought to be enough to let the expat know that I was not romantically or sexually available. The expat never asked me for a kiss, but eventually he invited me to go to bed with him. I said I was not interested in anything beyond platonic. Eventually he gave up. He said I was dumb to reject him. I think he was dumb to even consider the possibility that a twentysomething educated, financially independent Thai woman would consider entering a relationship with a fat man old enough to be her father. Is it that hard to believe that some Thais look for friendship and nothing more? Certainly, it appears that any farang, no matter how fat, old, bald, ugly, rude and intrinsically undesirable, can find a Thai girlfriend, but I guess some forget that the reason is not that farang men are supreme beings, desirable to all, but the reason is that there will always be some (and certainly not all) Thai women who are desperately poor or exceptionally obsessed with getting rich.

And, well, there are deviant individuals who enjoy having sex with chickens or high heels or both, so don’t rule out the possibility of stunningly gorgeous women with an ‘untypical’ taste for elderly men. Deviants are, well, deviants, hard to find, but you could be an exception to the rule. Good luck.

I almost forgot. It is entirely normal and socially acceptable for Thai people to tell you that you are good-looking, even if you are an 80-year-old granny. An average granny would know (and is expected to know) that it is just a friendly comment. I feel sorry for foreigners who are not aware of this cultural aspect.

[rixalex]

The expat never asked me for a kiss, but eventually he invited me to go to bed with him.

What a strange invitation! In all my years of woo-ing (mainly unsuccessful), i've never thought of just coming straight out with it in invitation form. Maybe that's where i've been going wrong - to much beating around the bush if you pardon the pun!

I almost forgot. It is entirely normal and socially acceptable for Thai people to tell you that you are good-looking, even if you are an 80-year-old granny. An average granny would know (and is expected to know) that it is just a friendly comment. I feel sorry for foreigners who are not aware of this cultural aspect.

Sadly though for those of us suffering from classic textbook denial, compliments such as these are lapped up and readily used to support our delusions of having great sexual appeal.

[kat]

it appears that any farang, no matter how fat, old, bald, ugly, rude and intrinsically undesirable, can find a Thai girlfriend, but I guess some forget that the reason is not that farang men are supreme beings, desirable to all, but the reason is that there will always be some (and certainly not all) Thai women who are desperately poor or exceptionally obsessed with getting rich.

Hey! Rainx, good to see you again.

[RueFang]

I'm not so sure about men over 50 not being sexually attractive. I have had my fair share of offers. And my fair share of shaggy shaggy since being up here.He_l even the boss of the mini-bus set up introduced me to her daughter yesterday telling me that her daughter wanted to meet me (this happening next door to my ex g/f shop). Delicate and quite sexy little thing down here from Chiang Mai. She told me I look a lot younger too Had a similar incident today. I love it!!! All the flattery makes me feel 10 years younger LOL I realise also that they are often after something

gag me with a copy of Andrew Hicks' novel. I suggest you start keeping a diary of all your dates, cute conversations (cos that will add humour), quirky little stories of things that happen when you're together so that in 5 years you can make a gazilion baht on the sale of your new original novel "Thai Visa Could Have Saved Me". Perhaps one day when you lie down for a nana nap all the blood will rush back to your head and you will realise how absolutely ridiculous you are being.