Buying A Tractor

[Pond Life]

A long time back I asked some questions here on how, where to buy a used Kubota Tractor.

So now I've done it, I'd like to share the info in case it's useful to anyone else.

Someone advised me that (Wipawadi) Rangsit Rd in Bangkok was the place,

so I jumped in a taxi & headed out past Don Muang Airport as instructed.

Found lots of places selling heavy machinery, but not to many Kubota's.

Then found a place that had about 50 sitting on the lot, plus stacks (literaly) of attachments.

This place is several km past the airport (heading North) on the right very close to Tesco Lotus.

I was helped by a young guy who spoke excellant english, he is the son of the owners & runs the store on saturdays as he's at university the rest of the week.

The model I was looking for, L3400 4WD, wasnt available & as it turns out, out of my budget.

But they did have several "Sunshine ZL1-20 4WD" which seemed to fit the ticket.

The price was 155,000 baht. All tractors of that model were the same price, regardless of condition.

Luckily for me an old guy who works there says "come & look round the back , we just had a new arrival & its in Very good nick".

Sure enough, same model but in far better condition, same price !

So I bought it, plus a front loader bucket 48 k, rototiller 15 k, rear grass cutter 11 k.

All to be put on a truck & delivered to Pai, Mae Hongson for 17,500.

It was delivered without any problems & runs like a dream.

I did a little bit of internet research later, I presumed it was 20 hp, but looks like its 26 hp.

I highly recomend this company, dont know the name, but if you follow the directions it would be hard to miss, just look out for lots of orange tractors & attachments.

I hope this info is useful, Thanks to the people who pointed me in the right direction.

[Pond Life]

So now I've got a tractor, can someone tell me how the <deleted> to drive it !

Only kidding, i've driven lots of small tractors, but mostly for towing aircraft.

But, I've never used a PTO, so I would apreciate some advice from the old hands.

I tried out the Roto Tiller, it became obvious that I needed to use a very slow travel speed, but what wasnt obvious was what PTO speed to use, can anyone advise ?

I also tried out the rear weed whacker, it did a great job, cut about 4 rai, in & out of mango trees in about 1 1/2 hrs.

I set the PTO to the highest rpm setting, is this correct ? I presumed that the faster the blades were going the cleaner the cut.

Does anyone know where I can get a manual for this tractor in English ?

Its a Japan only model so I'm guessing its going to be difficult.

I admit I havnt asked Kubota yet.

Thanks

[Globeliner]

PTO- 540 RPM, nice tractor( for the garden)

[Pond Life]

Globeliner,

More info please, is that 540 rpm for the tiller ?

if so what gear is that likely to be 1-4 ?

Its all in Japanese !

[Globeliner]

The PTO (Power Take Off) should read at 540 RPM on the taco, tractors count hours not km's as cars do. You should run any implement on the PTO at 540 RPM, when you rev her up (after engaging the PTO) take the RPM to 540 RPM.

What do you mean abot 4 gears? PTO's only 540 or a 1000 RPM. Pm me if you need more help.

[Globeliner]

What implements you will need depends on what you will be doing with your tractor. When shopping for a used tractor, it is a good idea to try to find one with as many model-specific attachments as possible. These include belly mowers, loaders and backhoes, which are custom-fit to that particular make and model. They are expensive to add later and not interchangeable among different tractors, as with 3PH implements.

Here is a list of some common attachments and how they might be useful to you. For definitions of terms, please see the glossary.

Mowers. There are many different kinds of mowers to choose from, from basic to very specialized. Here are some examples.

Finish Mowers - These are used to cut smooth grass lawns to a finished or groomed appearance.

Mid- or belly-mounted mowers are common and can be found in widths up to 72 in.

PTO powered units are available for pulling behind larger tractors.

Self-powered units are also available for towing behind small tractors or All-Terrain Vehicles (ATVs). An increasingly popular method for increasing mower width (and decreasing mowing time) is to tow a self-powered mower, offset to one side, behind an ordinary, mower-equipped lawn or garden tractor.

Aside from the above rotary-style mowers, there are reel-type mowers that clip grass to precise length, for that "manicured lawn" look. Since these mowers are easily damaged and quite labor-intensive to maintain and adjust properly, they are generally used only by commercial mowing services.

For more mowing width, several mowers can be pulled together as a group, or "gang."

Field Mowers - These types of mowers are used to rough-cut fields, brush, or tall grass, especially over uneven ground.

Rotary cutters (also called brush hogs or shredders) have heavy, swiveling blades that cut and then chew up just about anything in their path. These are generally powered by the tractor PTO and towed behind the machine, although self-powered units are also available. Useful for fields or overgrown areas. Can be damaged by hard objects (rocks, stumps) and may launch small objects at impressive speeds. Note- requires an overrunning clutch for safe operation on older tractors (such as Ford 2N or 8N) where PTO and hydraulics are linked.

A boom mower is a rotary cutter on a maneuverable hydraulic arm. These can be used to cut brush and weeds in areas where other types of mowers are impractical, such as ditch banks, hillsides, hedge rows and even overhead brush.

A sickle bar mower resembles a large hedge trimmer: a fixed guard and a set of knives, riveted to a single bar that moves in a reciprocating motion. This assembly normally extends out to one side of the tractor and shears off hay or grass like a scissors, just above ground level. These units are available for larger tractors and are powered by the tractor PTO. Useful for cutting hay or trimming field grass or weeds. Easily damaged by saplings, rocks, collision with fence posts, etc.

Flail mowers employ hundreds of free-swinging, L-shaped wire "blades" mounted on a rotating horizontal shaft that whip grass or weeds to the desired height. These units are available for larger tractors and are powered by the tractor PTO. Useful for uneven ground and areas where trash, rocks or other obstacles may be encountered. Not easily damaged by encounters with hard objects. Will not throw small objects.

Disc mowers use one or more spinning discs to slice off hay or grass at or near ground level. These units are available for larger tractors and are powered by the tractor PTO. Useful for tall grasses or hay that will be harvested after cutting.

Tiller. Tillers for small tractors often have their own motors, while those for larger machines are PTO powered.

Plow. An alternative to a tiller, for tractors larger than a garden tractor, is a disc harrow, or sometimes a harrow and moldboard plow. For garden and lawn tractors, disc harrows and plows are mostly toys, but for a larger tractor, they are useful tools, far cheaper and easier to maintain than a tiller, and capable of preparing a good seedbed in a garden or pasture.

[Pond Life]

Sounds like your tractor is different from mine.

Mine only has a tacho for the engine RPM, the engine ticks over at about 800 rpm, so 540 is out of the question.

There are 2 gear levers to select tractor travel speed, each offering 4 options + a fwd/rev lever, giving 16 fwd speeds & 16 rev.

It also has a PTO gear lever that offers four different PTO speeds independant of what travel speed you select.

Id like to know, for a given travel speed, what the pro's & cons are for turning your roto tiller faster or slower ?

[Globeliner]

Sounds like your tractor is different from mine.

Mine only has a tacho for the engine RPM, the engine ticks over at about 800 rpm, so 540 is out of the question.

There are 2 gear levers to select tractor travel speed, each offering 4 options + a fwd/rev lever, giving 16 fwd speeds & 16 rev.

It also has a PTO gear lever that offers four different PTO speeds independant of what travel speed you select.

Id like to know, for a given travel speed, what the pro's & cons are for turning your roto tiller faster or slower ?

You in my opinion you should guage your PTO speed from your tacho, after all the engine controls the PTO. if you are using a rotorvator on the rear only use 2 wheel drive as it pushes you forward.

May i ask what are the 4 speeds?

As for speed, get a feel for it, you'll find out, I have a Ford TW 35 for sale if you like it big

[Pond Life]

Thanks Globeliner,

Maybe someone with experience of small Kubota 4WD's could offer some advise.

Even better someone who can read Japanese.

[Globeliner]

540 is the North American standard, but not Japan's, where they use various higher speeds for paddy work. Thus the difference between export models

[Badbanker]

Actually both the mower and roto tiller should be run on the slowest speed (540 PTO RPM) that your PTO will run at. As I think you said this Japanese spec tractor has 3 or 4 PTO gears! You should experiment and run the PTO at the slowest speed! Running at higher PTO speeds can destroy the mower! Sadly the mowers made in Thailand are a bit crude and can self destruct!

The multiple speeds that you have on this tractor are designed for the Japanese market where they use implements that we don't get over here or the US.

Sounds like you got a reasonable deal!

BB

Edited March 12, 2008 by Badbanker

[Issangeorge]

Pond Life, you said "Only kidding, i've driven lots of small tractors, but mostly for towing aircraft." If you were using small tractors to tow aircraft around it sounds like you were working for a FBO. I used to tow aircraft for Air Canada, of course they were big aircraft, up to 747 size, and we used big tractors. We use to call ourselves Towologists, I have never driven a farm tractor or even a powered lawnmower. I did drive our two wheel Kubota Tractor once for a photo-op, to send back to Canada to show everybody I was working on the farm. Issangeorge.

[Pond Life]

Thanks BB

The grass cutter is I think what Globeliner calls a brush hog, its a big flat steel box with a horizontal propeller type blade driven thru a 90 deg bevel gear from the PTO. Its the only tool that was new & made in Thailand, everything else is 2 nd hand Jap import. Like you say the quality is nothing special but it does seem strong.

1 st gear on the PTO is super slow, but I'll give it a try next time.

Isaan, sorry I dont know what an FBO is, Im a helicopter mechanic/engineer.

[Gary A]

My Yanmar has a two speed PTO. Low is 540 and I think high is 780. The rotary tiller uses the 540 as does the bush hog. Other than maybe a water pump, I can see no use for the higher speed.

[Maizefarmer]

But you didn't check to see that your tractor pto speed and tiller speed matched ....?? Read my notes about what to look for when selecting a tiller to use with your tractor!! The great thing is: if the splines match chances are both units are matched in othe rrespects (but not always).

Your tiller should be run at the manufacturers rated speed and no other - not the fastest speed not the slowest speed - this should be on a sticker located somwhere on the tiller tinwork.

For the record there are 3 standard industry tractor pto/rear hitch mounted machinary speeds, they are: in the case of big tractors like the Ford 6610/7610 types, 540-560rpm and in smaller tractors like you have, around 1000rpm. Its the same wherever you go in the world - 95% plus of 3 point hitch machinary and tratcor ptos will be rated as above.

The rated speed for the pto is usualy given for the engine speed range (rpm) at which the tractor is designed to spend most of its working/draught time. Plus/minus 20% either way is no problem - and that is where you should work the tiller.

Question - does your tractor have a "live" pto (meaning one that is turning all the time when the engine is running) or can you turn it on and off with a lever that will be located on the side of the drivers seat (its usualy the lever on the outside of the lever that is used to raise the 3point hitch at the back). A "live" pto will only stop running when the rear 3point hitch is raised or the tractor is put in reverse.

To check all this: put the tractor in neutral, start it up and see which lever moves the rear point hitch - lift and lower your hitch - does the pto start turning when the hitch is lowered - if so then its live (its the most common design with the small.meidum tractors you find in Thailand.)

If your tractor pto is rated for around 1000rpm and you run a tiller rated for 540/560 someone is going to get hurt.

The other thing you need to check is the hitch CAT - on all small tractors the hitch CAT is CAT 1 and on some of the larger mediums size tractors it is CAT 2 as it is on the FORDS. Your tractor will have a CAT 1 hitch - which means you need to use a CAT 1 tiller - else it is going to swing around on the back, the splines won't match, the speeds won't match and generally things wil become complicated. If you tiller is less than 1,8 meters wide it will be CAT 1.

Now your tiller - setting it up and using it correctly:

The most important part of using your tiller (other than pto speed) is the draught setting - then blade angle and centering - and they are all slightly different on different models: so post a picture of the tiller on the rear of the tractor and I'll run through the correct procedure of setting it up so that draght, angle and centering on the 3 point hitch are all correct.

Other than impacting on how long the tiller lasts, draught setting can impact your fuel usage by as much as 25% -30%!!

Where is the gearbox on the tiller - is it on the side or is it in the center?

Is your tiller direct gear drive or is it belt drive by way of a shaft fromt he centre of the tiller to one side?

Both need to be setup and cared for slightly differently - come back with some info and I'll go into some detail.

Did you get spares blades with your tiller?

Did you check both half shatfs are straight?

Congrats on the tractor purchase.

[Maizefarmer]

... sorry, didn't see the picture with your first posting - and I am wrong about your pto speed - your model has a 540/560 pto rpm and now that I have seen the tiller pciture, all is fine because it is also a 540/560 rpm tiller

Depth control wheels - put your depth control wheels back on: the horizontal square tube at the rear of the tiller that has a vertically welded tube section at each end – those tubes are there to hold a round bar which drops down to the ground and has a wheel on the end of it – which controls how far down the rear of the rotor will drop into the ground as it breaks the soil up. Probably weren’t there when you purchased the tiller - replace them, or make up a pair.

Do not use the rear tiller wheels to control the tiller angle – use only the centre hitch of the 3 point hitch

H-frame that is located on top of the tiller – the centrally located adjustable support tube (in the photo it looks like half of it is white. The white section should have a thread turned inside it, into/out of which the other half can be screwed. Adjusting this will control the angle (as opposed to depth) at which the tiller drops into the soil. If this can’t be adjusted then adjust the centre hitch which is the upper of the 3 point hitch mounting bars/tubes – the one that hold the tiller to the upper 3 point hitch mounting pin – it should also have a thread that allows length adjustment. You want to adjust either of these so that when the tiller drops to the ground it is horizontal with the ground – not tilted downwards from the lower 2 hitch pins, and not tilted up wards from the lower 2 hitch pins – it should be level. If it is not level then the spring loaded rear flaps will drag the soil back into the blades – this is when your fuel consumption will rise.

Lower hitch points – ensure these are equal length. If one is longer, then the tiller will pull off its centre axis to one or other side of the tractor, or one side of the tiller will dig deeper into the ground than the other side resulting in a tilled bed that is either not straight or has a top surface that slant downwards to the longer side.

Blade Mounting - make sure the blades are mounted symetricaly i.e. from the centre working outwards to each end, each blade on each side of the centre should be facing the same way as its opposite number. There is often a sticker on the tinwork of the tiller which will show you various blade setup patterns i.e. by changing certain blades to face from left to right or right to left, you can create a flat mound, or a rounded mound, or even 2 or 3 separate mounds – great for creating raised vegetable beds.

Blade Bolts – on most tillers the bolt that holds the blade to the shaft is designed so that it can only be put on one way, but one some you can put the bolt on from left to right, or from right left. If the latter, ensure the nuts on each bolt are on the oppisite side to which the blade curves. Doing this prevents stones from being thrown against and damaging the exposed thread, so that when it comes to changing blades you do not have to cut the bolts

Do not use the same depth year after year – this will result in a hard bedpan below the blade max depth resulting in no drainage – change the depth each year.

Other than that, the rest is common sense:

- check the ground for big rocks before tilling – big stones chew up blades.

- keep the drive chain greased or if belts make sure no tears

- make sure there is oil in the right angle gear box on the top of the tiller (any diesel engine oil will be fine).

- pick up broken blades – get quite sharp in use and can puncture tractor tyres.

[slapout]

Sounds like you have a nice piece of machinery with all the gagets. The company where you bought it should verify pto speed and your mower and tiller match. I would be surprised if they did not as the manufactor is same. I have never seen a tac for pto on a tractor and the bigger tractors to change pto speed, you replace the pto shaft to gear box plate with a high speed or low speed, depending on need. Brushhogs and tillers run with low speed pto while some balers, stackers and feeders require higher speed spline. If I was there we could run thru it but hope my thoughts are coming thru clear.

[mikejphuket]

Thanks BB

The grass cutter is I think what Globeliner calls a brush hog, its a big flat steel box with a horizontal propeller type blade driven thru a 90 deg bevel gear from the PTO. Its the only tool that was new & made in Thailand, everything else is 2 nd hand Jap import. Like you say the quality is nothing special but it does seem strong.

1 st gear on the PTO is super slow, but I'll give it a try next time.

Isaan, sorry I dont know what an FBO is, Im a helicopter mechanic/engineer.

Pond Life

Well done on the tractor- I am very envious. Looking forward to the day when i may buy one, have to build a house first. FBO is "fixed based operator"- sounds like you were working way out in the sticks! I used to fly helicopters in a past life.

Have fun with your toy and thanks for the post.

[Pond Life]

Thanks MF,

I new i could rely on you to get down to the nitty gritty specifics.

I never had any doubts that this was the correct tiller for the tractor, I'm a mechanic & this thing fits right.

The shafts are straight & it turns smoothly by hand or PTO.

You've got me on the depth control wheels, didnt know they were suposed to be there, I can make some, just need a picture to give me the general idea.

But the reason I picked that tiller over the rest in the pile was that it had the H frame, didn't know what it was for but looked like it would come in handy.

Yes, the H frame has a screw jack like on the jockey wheel of a trailer.

Unfortunatly I'm separated from my new toy at the moment so cant supply any more photo's or try out your suggestions, back to Thai in 5 wks, however I've got a good internet conection here & nothing better to do than collect useful information.

I think I understand what you are saying about adjusting the angle.

I presume youre talking about the "top deck" of the tiller being horizontal/parrallel to the ground, if so is this with the blades at cutting depth in the ground or resting on the surface ?

Back to the PTO,

Ok, I accept what you say, the PTO should turn at 540 rpm, end of story.

I think I'm going to need a someone who reads Japanese & speaks english well.

Theres dozens of little stickers all over the tractor, I just cant read them.

A japanese friend helped me with some, 2WD/4WD, diff lock, but his english is not so good & he doesnt know any technical words in english. I think maybe one of then might mention PTO rpm Versus engine RPM

The PTO gear shift is between your knees, below the steering wheel.

Its a regular H pattern, 4 gears, when the stick is slopping around in the middle its in neutral & diconected from the engine.

When I tried out the tiller I ran the engine at 1500 rpm with the PTO in 2 nd, it felt right but I dont know what RPM the PTO was doing.

There is no over run clutch, when you push the main clutch, you can feel the momentum of the tiller/cutter pushing you forward.

Im glad to hear I can adjust the blades to make raised beds, I was planning to remove a few blades from the center to give me 2 narrow beds with a walkway between, but thats even better.

No I forgot to ask about spare blades, mistake.

Thanks all, keep it coming.

[Globeliner]

May I ask what size are the splines on your PTO? (No pun intended)

[Pond Life]

This is from memory,

I'd say output shaft Diameter is approx 5 cm(2 in), each individual spline is approx 5-10 mm across.

havnt seen it for 2 wks tho & I've done some serious damage to my short term memory over the years.

[Globeliner]

This is from memory,

I'd say output shaft Diameter is approx 5 cm(2 in), each individual spline is approx 5-10 mm across.

havnt seen it for 2 wks tho & I've done some serious damage to my short term memory over the years.

OK, all implements should be run at 540 RPM, a PTO shaft with small splines should run at 1000 RPM, maybe your tacho is out, try it out and let me know

[Maizefarmer]

To take the guess work out of what 3 point hitch is on what tractor with what pto shaft diameter, what spline configuration and, what speed - here are the facts - and they are as applicable here in Thailand as anywhere in the world because 3 point hitches on tractors and the ptos they have are made to SAE international standards - which have being adopted by just about every manufacturer in the world.

There are 3 types of 3 point hitches: Cat 1, 2 and 3 - and these 3 types are the same (in each type) where ever you go in the world.

There is a close relationship between hitch catagory (meaning: size/weight lifting capability), and the pto shaft size/diameter/number of splines, that are found on farm tractors.

To keep it simple:

Cat 1 hitches are small and are found on small and medium tractors.

Cat 2 hitches are medium and are found on mostly (but not always) on medium asized tractors.

Cat 3 hitches are large and are found just about always (with a few exceptions on medium tractors but never small tractors) on large tractors.

Our ubiquitous FORD 6/7610's we have so many of in Thailand can have a Cat 2 sized or Cat 3 sized hitch on it - depending when it was made, what exact model it is, and what market it was made for. I n my experiance most have Cat 2 hitches on them.

The statement that all implements should run at 540rpm is simply not correct - period.

540rpm was indeed the original SAE international spec, many moons ago - but has long long since being revised - as follows:

Now pto configurations - they are as follows:

PTO speeds are: 540/560 & 1000rpm - this is common to all farm tractors (which will have one of these speeds, or a combination of 2)

PTO diameters: 1 2/3" and 1 3/4" - this is the case with all farms tractors (i.e. small, medium and large - which will have one or the other)

On the OP's tractor it is a CAT 1 hitch running at 540/560rpm. Why/How?

Because he has a rototiller mounted on the back and Cat 1size r/tillers are made to run off 540/560rpm pto's. Following on from that it must also be 1 2/3" diameter pto shaft with 6 splines. How/Why? - because that is the SAE combination for small tractor with Cat 1 hitch's with a Cat 1 impliment mounted on it.

And this would the case with ANY 2nd imported small medium tractor of this size - especially if its a Far East make.

However, 1000rpm pto speed options are avalible as a kit for many small/medium size tractors - but as already said, the OP has a tiller mounted on the rear 3 p/hitch, and as they only come in Cat 1 size for 540/560rpm ptos, it follows that the tractor pto is 540/560rpm. It is possible he has a 1000rpm dual speed pto kit in the gearbox (of the tractor) - but he'd know about it by now if he was running a belt or chain driven tiller at twice the rated speed!!

Bigger tractors like the Ford 6/7610's, can have a CAT 2 or 3 hitch - and one can have a combination of any one of the above pto diameters. spline configurations or speeds. How/Why?

Because when the SAE revised international pto spec's FORD then started producing aftermarket pto box ratios and shafts kits that could be interchanged with their older models, so as to keep their established client base of farmers, so that they could now buy and use the newer equipment that manufactruers started making - like newer and larger r/tillers (many of which come from manufacturers with dual speed gearboxes mounted on the tiller), withoyut having to go out and buy a new tractor.

And indeed, this is partly the "mechanical politics" behind how we come to have so many old FORDS in Thailand - because most 3 point hitch machinary made nowadays is made for either single speed 1000rpm ptos, or dual speed 540/1000rpm pto's. The 540rpm pto is much the province of small/medium tractors, and the basic models European/USA manufascturers make nowadays for the 3rd world markets (so that the farmers in these countries can continue to use the older equipment they inevabitbly already have).

With respect to the ubiquitous FORD 6/7610's we see so many of in Thailand, the chances are however:

- if its a 1 3/4" shaft diameter: it will have 21 splines and will be a dual speed pto (capable of being run at 540 or 1000rpm)

- if its a 1 2/3" shaft diameter: it will have 20splines and will be a single speed pto (capable only 540rpm)

You do not find old farm tractors (any manufacturer) with just 1000rpm pto's - unless, it's a tractor made for a specific purpose (e.g. some configured for foresty work).

These are the pto shaft diameter/spline configurations and rpm standards and, how they are used on farm tractors.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[Badbanker]

Am I missing something or did the original OP ask about which PTO gear he should use as he has a Japanese Spec Kubota tractor which has a seperate PTO box with 4 speeds.

The treatise on speeds is great but have we answered which PTO gear in the PTO box he needs to use!

BB

[Saiyan]

Pond Life

Congrats with the tractor.

I have a very similar one as well and have had it for over a year now with no problems.

Wish you well with yours and a nice way to teach the wife to drive.

My grass cutter is the same as you describe and I use 2 nd gear on the PTO and also use 2 nd gear on the tractor in 4 wheel drive. 4 th gear on the cutter is da_m fast and I would heed MF's advice. You will find that even in 3 rd gear, when you lift the cutter to its highest point whilst still running, it gives you an indication that it is going to self destruct.

As I cut in forward and in reverse I find that sometimes the rear wheels tend to skid on the ground, and that is the reason I use the 4 wheel drive.

No advice on the tiller. Wish I had one.

[Globeliner]

Pond Life

Congrats with the tractor.

I have a very similar one as well and have had it for over a year now with no problems.

Wish you well with yours and a nice way to teach the wife to drive.

My grass cutter is the same as you describe and I use 2 nd gear on the PTO and also use 2 nd gear on the tractor in 4 wheel drive. 4 th gear on the cutter is da_m fast and I would heed MF's advice. You will find that even in 3 rd gear, when you lift the cutter to its highest point whilst still running, it gives you an indication that it is going to self destruct.

As I cut in forward and in reverse I find that sometimes the rear wheels tend to skid on the ground, and that is the reason I use the 4 wheel drive.

No advice on the tiller. Wish I had one.

4wd cutting grass? come on! Why? I'm sure you're cutting a field that is on steep slope? Are you driving at a 90 degree slope?

>The statement that all implements should run at 540rpm is simply not correct - period.

540rpm was indeed the original SAE international spec, many moons ago - but has long long since being revised <

Bloody japs.

[Maizefarmer]

Am I missing something or did the original OP ask about which PTO gear he should use as he has a Japanese Spec Kubota tractor which has a seperate PTO box with 4 speeds.

The treatise on speeds is great but have we answered which PTO gear in the PTO box he needs to use!

BB

Cut it out the sarcasim mate - I'm trying to give accurate advise for the benefit of all.

To answer the specific question, which yes I did miss - which gear to use?

Any gear - it will make no differance to the speed of the pto which is ratio'd to the tractors engine speed to vary no more than about 15% - no matter what speed the tratcor is moving, or what speed the engine is turning at - so long as it is above idle (thats common sense I think).

I'll explain:

1) a tractor speed at which it is comfortable to do the job in hand (which will be between 3mph - 6mph)

2) an engine speed which provides the most torque (which on your tractor will be between 2200 - 2400rpm)

.... and quite, just as if by "magic" you will find, that the above combinations will be spot on - differing in only so much as you will have to experiment with each to establish the exact tractor/engine/pto speed combination that gives you the fineness or coarseness of tilled soil that you want.

To get these tractor/engine and pto speeds Pond Life, you will find that you will be in either:

1) low ratio using 2nd or 3rd gear, or you will be in

2) high ratio using 1st gear

Do try to plough your soil before hand if it has not being ploughed at all, or for a couple of seasons - else you will find the tiller will bounce around on the surface and bend/break the blades. If you have no plough availible - spray it with water one evening - generously - before going to bed, let it soak in overnight and get up early to till.

Pay attention to which ratio you have set the tractor gearbox in - tilling in 1st in low ratio will turn the soil into dust, then come the first rain, it will compact down and become as hard as hel_l. tilling in 2nd in high ratio will have the tractor and tiller bouncign down the field with no tilling be done.

The above description of tractor/engine and pto speed is as valid for cutting grass as it is for tilling the soil - except that as far as cutting grass goes the variable is the density of the grass (versus the finess of the soil when tilling) - because the grass density will determine how fast you can move through it while cutting before you start to syuffer from either: engine stalls, or un-cut patches left behind the tractor.

So thats the principal. What would do:

Go with 2200 - 2400rpm in low ratio 2nd gear - that will give you about 4mph, and I garuntee you whatever the density of the grass you will have no problem -just push up on the throttle lever a bit if the tractor starts to slow.

If you find that to slow - go to 1st gear in high ratio.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[Badbanker]

So the general concensus is that the on the Jap Spec Kubota, which is a different machine to the US/European Spec machine as it has a seperate PTO box, that first gear in the PTO is the right gear as second seems to be to fast.

Using low ratio and 2nd or 3rd gear should do most things effectively.

Using too low a gear like low ratio first while tilling will destroy any texture and allow erosion and encourage compaction.

BB

[Pond Life]

Thanks all.

I think I've got it clear now.

Sounds like I had the speeds about right & it felt right.

I'll post some close ups of the tractor next time im home.

Sounds like this one is a bit different to usual.

Anyone got any leads where to find a manual for such a gray market tractor ?

MF, got any pics of you water pump on a 3 point hitch ?

[Gary A]

Thanks all.

I think I've got it clear now.

Sounds like I had the speeds about right & it felt right.

I'll post some close ups of the tractor next time im home.

Sounds like this one is a bit different to usual.

Anyone got any leads where to find a manual for such a gray market tractor ?

MF, got any pics of you water pump on a 3 point hitch ?

I run my Yanmar in fourth gear low range with the PTO speed set at 540. Any slower for the forward gear speed and it grinds the dirt into powder. The thirty horsepower turns the 60 inch tiller with no problem at all.

I bought a centrifugal water pump and planned to build a mount for the three point. The first problem was that the pump turned in the opposite direction as the PTO. My brother in law now uses it with his iron buffalo and floods our rice paddies as well as his own. I just pay for the diesel when he floods ours. This arrangement suits me fine. At just a fast idle the iron buffalo pumps a solid four inch stream of water. It's amazing how much water it pumps.