Ubuntu - Still Way Too Geeky!

[hp8000]

Wine AppDB to check application compatibility with Wine.

[Gumballl]

Dual-booting and perhaps Wine, are considered old-school. Use Vmware to host your virtual machines. I've tried 32-bit Vmware on both Ubuntu and Fedora, and in both cases I was able to install (and run!) Windows. However, as I sat there staring at the sky-blue screen of WinXP, I pondered what to do next... I couldn't think of anything to do, so I closed the session and went back to using Linux.

Alternatively, install Vmware under Windows and host a Linux distro (or two).

Edited April 7, 2008 by Gumballl

[dave_boo]

Dual-booting and perhaps Wine, are considered old-school. Use Vmware to host your virtual machines. I've tried 32-bit Vmware on both Ubuntu and Fedora, and in both cases I was able to install (and run!) Windows. However, as I sat there staring at the sky-blue screen of WinXP, I pondered what to do next... I couldn't think of anything to do, so I closed the session and went back to using Linux.

Alternatively, install Vmware under Windows and host a Linux distro (or two).

The problem with using virtualisation is that there are currently no techniques to translate DirectX calls into native. This really rules out the only compulsion I have for booting Windows for newer games or using Wine for older ones.

Another thing that many don't know about is Hardware Virtualisation. Basically if your CPU/motherboard supports it, it is much, much faster than software calls. For Intel processors, here are the following with support:

It is available on certain Pentium 4 6x1 and 6x2 models, Pentium D 9x0, Xeon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx, Core Duo (excluding the T2300E and T2x50 models) and Core 2 Duo processors (excluding the T52x0, T5300, T54x0, T5500 with stepping "B2", E2xx0, E4x00 and E8190 models).

And on AMD's side:

stepping "F" and "G", Athlon 64 X2 with stepping "F" and "G", Turion 64 X2, Opteron, Phenom, and all newer processors.

Those running Linux can put in a terminal to discover if their cpu supports hardware virtualisation:

For Intel

sudo cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep vmx

or for AMD

sudo cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep svm

Edited April 7, 2008 by dave_boo

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

I am pretty convinced that either my mainboard (Asus K8N-E SE) or my CPU (AMD Sempron 2800+) do not support hardware virtualization. But that is certainly not a problem - indeed i can have XP or even Vista in a VMWare image (in fact - XP i already have such, also Windows 95, 98, ME and 2000 as well as SuSE 10.0 and, believe it or not, Ubuntu 6.06). My machine has enough horsepower (and RAM!) to run each of those with 756 MB dedicated RAM flawlessly, however i took the VMWare player off my system because it caused a slow shutdown. Yet i saved each of the virtual machines on DVD's so if i got it running again under Linux i'll just copy those.

Can i have some advice, please, to partitioning? As "google" gives me just too many too confusing possibilities.

I want to get a 80 GB HDD, dedicated to Linux. All my data is (and stays!) on a 500 GB HDD that's formatted to 4 NTFS partitions. It appeared to me that Ubuntu Gutsy didn't have any problem reading and writing those during my live-CD session, but for example the VM's i'd like to keep within Linux as to save the space on the data drives. Now i know that stuff i download, for example, goes to "/home", hence the need for a separate partition for that. I also have 2 GB of RAM in the box.

So how do i best format the drive? Say an 80 GB one. I want Linux with quite some (all available?) stuff installed, so i guess a large "/" is in order - say 30 GB? And 4? 6? 8? GB for "swap", which, if i understand correctly, is the same as "page file" under Windows, i.e. virtual memory. Can i use the rest of the drive for "/home" or do i NEED any of the others, i.e. "/usr", "/var" etc? What are those for?

Please forgive me my newbie questions, but i am planning "the switch" here after 11 years Windows, so it's not all that easy specially considered that i had quite a bit of bad experience recently. Also, @anyone with experience, does the ATI driver from the repository ("restricted driver", fglrx) support TV-Out or do i need one from the ATI website for that? I haven't tested it from the live-CD session (because i couldn't get any video to play - lack of codecs) I could NOT get that to work with an older ATI card under SuSE 10.0. (but didn't mess up the system either). That function is absolutely required, the PC being my home entertainment system/DVD player. No, i will NOT change to Nvidia Under any circumstances.

With best regards......

Thanh

[RKASA]

Can't address everything right out but the swap is easy the rule is 2xRAM, but what I do so I never have to change it is 2x Max possable RAM then a RAM up grade is not issue.  Most like 20gig is enough for an os, that makes room for building the max. iso for a DVD during a remaster of an installation.  Everything can be in one partition for each os if you want, but its normal to put /home out on its own because it is excluded during most remasters and you don't want to overwrite it in a reinstall or format everything else is anyway /usr /var etc.

[Gumballl]

Between 2xRAM or 2GB, choose whichever is less for the amount of swap space. I can't imagine anyone ever needing 4GB, 8GB, or more of swap space!

Concerning the partitioning, you can either accept the defaults as provided by Ubuntu (or whichever distro you choose), or set up your own. I tend to setup my partitions with the following allocated spaces:

• / - 15GB
  
• /boot - 200MB
  
• /home - Remaining space
  

If you ever need to reinstall, make sure you reformat the /boot and the / partitions, leaving the /home intact with your data.

P.S. When/if you setup VMware, set it up to create images in the /home directory. By default I think it uses /var/lib/vmware (or something like that).

[dave_boo]

Gumball is spot on...however Linux is much better at unloading stuff from RAM than Windows is. In fact, I usually don't recommend going over 512MB for your Swap File.

If you think this is low, open up as many applications as you think you'd have open at one time, and than leave them open. And just to pad the numbers, go ahead and compile a new kernel. Open up your system monitor (or use tops if you're a CLI junkie like me!) and see how much free memory you have. Surprised? I'd be willing to bet that even with only 512MB of RAM you're going to have some left over.

Do note that there are some programs that have memory leak (yes, I'm looking at you Firefox 2.x!), but there are alternatives (i.e. Firefox 3 beta, Opera, etc.) that can quickly fill up 512 MB of RAM and start forcing stuff out into the Swap File.

I based my 512 on the size of a totally expanded kernel, which Linux will try and load into the swap file, plus a little extra. So if my machine ever slows down, I can take a quick look at either the hdd light or sysmon. However, even that can be deceiving, since beagled or other similar program can be running.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

I have some more questions (some of them repeats), after several hours of googling i have too many too different answers tio paint a picture so i am looking for an Ubuntu-Guru to clear things in my mind before i go and invest in that new HDD.

1) Can i get the TV-Out on my ATI x300 to work in a way that i can watch VIDEO on the TV? (screen clone is ok)

2) Will i lose any 3D stuff for that?

3) Is there a way to configure T-Bird or any other e-mail software to work with HOTMAIL accounts? I need to download my mail to my computer.

These are the last three remaining issues - yet each one will make or break the "deal". I NEED the Hotmail functionality as i have three Hotmail-type e-mail accounts (among others). Also as the PC is my only video player (DVD's as well as all sorts of formats such as avi, mpg, rmvb etc) i absolutely need the TV-out to work while at the same time i need 3D and acceleration in order to use the dock, a further requirement for daily work. I can't do one-or-other but need BOTH, absolutely.

In many web sites i read many different things - some get it to work with a few clicks, some with days of command line fiddling, others not at all. Some have everything like i need it, others get TV-out but no possibility to play video on the TV, others must disconnect the monitor to get TV output, others must manually edit xorg.conf and reboot each time they want to use TV etc etc etc. Way too confusing. Is there an application that, like under Windows, allows to simply switch TV-out on when needed and off when not needed? In Windows that's part of ATI's driver, Windows' own driver has no such possibility but outputs on the TV too as a simple "clone mode" which is sufficient if Linux offers it.

I have read that certain Nvidia cards are easier to get going but i want to avoid that - further costs and headaches because i still keep my two Windows OS and don't want to have to fiddle with the drivers THERE as they both work perfectly.

Many thanks in advance......

Thanh

[dave_boo]

Hello

I have some more questions (some of them repeats), after several hours of googling i have too many too different answers tio paint a picture so i am looking for an Ubuntu-Guru to clear things in my mind before i go and invest in that new HDD.

1) Can i get the TV-Out on my ATI x300 to work in a way that i can watch VIDEO on the TV? (screen clone is ok)

I can't answer definitely, but most of the time getting TV-Out on ATI was a cast iron b!tch. That's why I switched to nVidia. However, screen clone isn't the way to go, but rather seperate desktops. If you have a screen clone, whatever is displayed on your main monitor is reflected on the secondary one. So in order to get full screen video, you'd have to have it on both. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Also, make sure you're using the Fglrx driver. Granted, it seems that when using drivers older than 8.42.3 running DRI disables composite. However, configuring xine to use Xv video playback is a quick and painless solution.

2) Will i lose any 3D stuff for that?

No.

3) Is there a way to configure T-Bird or any other e-mail software to work with HOTMAIL accounts? I need to download my mail to my computer.

No. That is no if you use the free version. Sorry, but Microsoft is able to provide free email by showing you ads. If you have the paid version you can set it up for an IMAP/POP3 client.

These are the last three remaining issues - yet each one will make or break the "deal". I NEED the Hotmail functionality as i have three Hotmail-type e-mail accounts (among others). Also as the PC is my only video player (DVD's as well as all sorts of formats such as avi, mpg, rmvb etc) i absolutely need the TV-out to work while at the same time i need 3D and acceleration in order to use the dock, a further requirement for daily work. I can't do one-or-other but need BOTH, absolutely.

You say you have Hotmail access on the Windows install; i.e. other than using a web browser?

In many web sites i read many different things - some get it to work with a few clicks, some with days of command line fiddling, others not at all. Some have everything like i need it, others get TV-out but no possibility to play video on the TV, others must disconnect the monitor to get TV output, others must manually edit xorg.conf and reboot each time they want to use TV etc etc etc. Way too confusing. Is there an application that, like under Windows, allows to simply switch TV-out on when needed and off when not needed? In Windows that's part of ATI's driver, Windows' own driver has no such possibility but outputs on the TV too as a simple "clone mode" which is sufficient if Linux offers it.

I have read that certain Nvidia cards are easier to get going but i want to avoid that - further costs and headaches because i still keep my two Windows OS and don't want to have to fiddle with the drivers THERE as they both work perfectly.

Many thanks in advance......

Thanh

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Thank you for your reply, i highly appreciate it.

For the screen issue, it being cloned would be ok - i don't mind if the video is running on the TV and the monitor at the same time because i rarely work on the computer while watching a movie (yet in Windows i actually CAN do that - the option is "extend desktop to second screen" (TV), then move the video player onto that part of the desktop and make it "full screen", it will then fill the whole TV and i can still work on the monitor"side". Yet ii rarely do so....... i just switch the monitor off when watching a movie on the TV. So yeah, if "clone" is an easy option (remember what newbie i am!) then that's just fine.

About Hotmail, yes i do have access to all three accounts by Outlook Express (under XP) and Outlook (Vista), i also used to be able to use "Windows Live Mail Desktop" which is made for just that purpose however it seems that whole Thailand has issues with that software - somehow the servers required are blocked or something. All three of my Hotmail accounts are the free version, yet two i have over 9 years already, maybe that's why they still work with that access. Nowadays i use mainly G-Mail but still want to keep those Hotmails too.

The reason why i don't want to switch to Nvidia is simple - the hassle with driver installing in both Windows and the money required to buy yet another new graphic card - mine is only a few months old and works perfectly. Which is why i hope for it to work under Linux - as my recent experiences with an (ok old) Nvidia card show that they also don't always work in Linux, and the worst that could happen for me is - spend money on an Nvidia, go thru the hassle to get it working under both Windows, and then find out that it, too, does NOT work under Linux! As the shop won't take it back - money down the drain. By the way i use a simple "composite" cable for the TV as the TV itself has no other inputs (S-Video or other).

You mentioned "Xine". Do i need to use that or will VLC be fine? I like VLC for it's features and the fact that it plays many formats (including DVD's) without codec hassles. I use it under Windows, too

Best regards.....

your Thanh

[hp8000]

3) Is there a way to configure T-Bird or any other e-mail software to work with HOTMAIL accounts? I need to download my mail to my computer.

I don't have a hotmail account but found that some people can get it work in thunderbird using the Webmail and Hotmail extensions found on this page.

[dave_boo]

Hello

Thank you for your reply, i highly appreciate it.

For the screen issue, it being cloned would be ok - i don't mind if the video is running on the TV and the monitor at the same time because i rarely work on the computer while watching a movie (yet in Windows i actually CAN do that - the option is "extend desktop to second screen" (TV), then move the video player onto that part of the desktop and make it "full screen", it will then fill the whole TV and i can still work on the monitor"side". Yet ii rarely do so....... i just switch the monitor off when watching a movie on the TV. So yeah, if "clone" is an easy option (remember what newbie i am!) then that's just fine.

I can't be certain what the ATI driver offers, but I know that on my nVidia based installs it's fairly easy to do either clone or dual view (which may be a nVidia only term--but basically it's the "stretch my desktop to this monitor").

About Hotmail, yes i do have access to all three accounts by Outlook Express (under XP) and Outlook (Vista), i also used to be able to use "Windows Live Mail Desktop" which is made for just that purpose however it seems that whole Thailand has issues with that software - somehow the servers required are blocked or something. All three of my Hotmail accounts are the free version, yet two i have over 9 years already, maybe that's why they still work with that access. Nowadays i use mainly G-Mail but still want to keep those Hotmails too.

I don't use Hotmail, but as hp8000 mentioned, there are extensions that allow you to access web based emails. As a matter of fact I use ypop to get my Yahoo mail.

The reason why i don't want to switch to Nvidia is simple - the hassle with driver installing in both Windows and the money required to buy yet another new graphic card - mine is only a few months old and works perfectly. Which is why i hope for it to work under Linux - as my recent experiences with an (ok old) Nvidia card show that they also don't always work in Linux, and the worst that could happen for me is - spend money on an Nvidia, go thru the hassle to get it working under both Windows, and then find out that it, too, does NOT work under Linux! As the shop won't take it back - money down the drain. By the way i use a simple "composite" cable for the TV as the TV itself has no other inputs (S-Video or other).

Fair enough. Do you have problems with overscan under Windows? I know that I had a tv that I tried to hookup to my wife's desktop and it didn't want to display correctly-kinda like it was expecting a PAL signal and I was trying to feed it a NTSC. This was even using Component cables. I cycled through the various settings and gave up. Exchanged it for one that did.

You mentioned "Xine". Do i need to use that or will VLC be fine? I like VLC for it's features and the fact that it plays many formats (including DVD's) without codec hassles. I use it under Windows, too

Xine is just another player similar to VLC. It came out before VLC, just barely, but that's what I've always used. There are no major differences, in fact you probably have xine installed on your system since so many GUI-based media players use it for their backend. Stick with what you're used to especially if it's working.

Best regards.....

your Thanh

[jackk]

There's also Freepops ( http://www.freepops.org/en/ ) for Linux, Windows, Mac and even old BeOS and can fetch emails from a lot of webmails. It works with any email software.

I use it for yahoo with claws-mail (a great app, much better than thunderbird IMHO http://www.claws-mail.org/)

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Over the weekend i will (hopefully....) have the time to go top Panthip and get the hard drive.

Then i'll wait for Ubuntu 8.04 to be released - there really is no point to install 7.10 when 8.04 is just days away, no?

And finally - here maybe some of you can help me again. I received yesterday my CD of PC Linux OS that i ordered from on-disk.com. It is a real, pressed, silver CD, not a burned one, and it is, to my surprise, PC Linux OS 2007 (!) Gnome edition. (On the website it promises you'll get the 2008 version but never mind).

So i popped that into my main machine to test - yup, it does NOT appear empty as opposed to all those that i burned (which nevertheless work fine) but, booting from it, it does the exact same:

Booting stops dead after "setting clock". On the main machine, that is.

I had it sitting there for 25 minutes, thinking it might continue, but narda - the system just stops there.

Now is there ANYthing i could do to get this to work? I would REALLY like to use THAT Linux because i love it's look on the small computer...... combined with the power of the main machine...... yum

With best regards......

Thanh

[Gumballl]

Does the PC Linux disk only have one kernel on it, or do you have a choice when you first boot up? Maybe you need to pass arguments to the kernel when starting up. I'm not an expert in this matter, but sometimes when other people have trouble booting their Linux distros, they may pass a kernel argument of "noapic" or "acpi=off" (maybe both??).

To give either these a shot, when you see the boot prompt of the CD, see if there is a means to interrupt the auto-boot (perhaps pressing the ESC key); then when you see the "boot:" prompt, enter one of these options.

Btw, APIC = Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controllers, ACPI = Advanced Configuration and Power Interface

Generally the "noapic" will do the trick.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Thank you very much for that reply, i will give that option a try tomorrow when i test again.

Now just to update - i have bought a bunch of things yesterday and amongs that was a new graphic card - Nvidia GeForce 7200 GS, 256 MB. A bee-otch to install under Vista (the supplied driver on CD generates BSOD's!! And yes, i did uninstall all ATI stuff properly before) but, once running with the latest, downloaded, driver it boosted my "Vista Experience Rating" or what that thing is called from 2.1 to 3.0 I know, still no F1 but certainly good enough for me.

Now PC Linux OS 2007/2008 Gnome STILL stop dead in booting at the exact same point - "setting clock", so "ATI" as a reason for that can be safely ruled out as there is no more "ATI" in the rig now

I also got my HDD so tomorrow morning i'll do a test-install - either i get PClos to work, or i'll wait for Ubuntu 8.04.

With best regards.......

Thanh

[RKASA]

I think the thing you set after the time is the internet connection so it must be hanging looking for a eth card.  PClinuxOS2007 is kernel 2.6.18.6.tex6 with kde desktop.  You can upgrade the kernel after it is install with synaptic with just a click it even changes the boot menu.  No reinstall is ever required.  The latest kernel is 2.6.22.17.tex2 which is in the repos and one upgrade past the gnome 2008.  Gnome 2008 is kernel 2.6.22.15.tex6 with the gnome desktop.  If you updated both the latest, the only differance would be the desktop thame.  So you get to the point of setting keyboard and then time, but then it hangs.  I ll put an ear to the ground, I don't recall this one happening before.

edit: Should have a safemode to boot to on the cd which will skip the internet setup. That can be done once its up. I use that mode with the newer kernels on my old stuff because of scsi probe ect.

Edited April 20, 2008 by RKASA

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

I feel i am getting somewhere...... i am typing this from an already installed PC Linux OS 2008 Gnome - on the main machine!! "Safe Mode (Vesa)" did the trick

Still several hiccups:

1) No splash screen - regardless which of the three options i chose (text only, silent, verbose) i get always "text only" which sucks.

2) Machine doesn't power off after shutdown (ACPI is already enabled)

3) Can't find any "restricted drivers" thingy? So how to get a decent driver for my spanking new Nvidia card?

Everything else seems to work - i am listening to an mp3 right now, my LCD monitor is in native resolution (without driver i get no TV-out of course...) and the internet works too. I have enabled all those additional repositories and hope to find Nvidia's driver or the "restricted driver management tool" somewhere....... and then have to tackle the above problems.

But - i have a good feeling here

With best regards......

Thanh

[Thanh-BKK]

Ok update -

Got an Nvidia driver directly from Nvidia's website working - coll effects really, desktop cube and all. However in turn i lost some things - where did my "close", "maximize" and "minimize" buttons go, on top of Windows? They disappeared for all windows.

Machine shuts off now when powering down.

Not yet tested TV-out - out of time.

Oh, and still no splash screen when booting or shutting down.

Best regards......

Thanh

Edited April 21, 2008 by Thanh-BKK