Zoltan Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 09.10.20048.40pm BAGHDAD - British hostage Kenneth Bigley escaped briefly from his captors shortly before they beheaded him in Iraq, insurgent sources said on Saturday. They said Bigley managed to get away for about half an hour with the help of one of his captors before he was caught in farmland near the town of Latifiya, southwest of Baghdad. My condolences to the Bigley family at least he got a chance to get away and went down with a fight. Things that go around come around im sure the cowards that did this will get thier just deserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Respect and deepest sympathy to Ken himself, his wife and family.All these beheadings have saddened me but this one has had the deepest affect on me, and I am sure, everybody who has been able to bear the relentlessly depressing news coverage. Ken's was somehow the most tragic. To imagine what his last weeks/days would have been like and to imagine his fear, his desperate sobbing for mercy and thoughts for his family is sickeningly unbearable, let alone wondering what the moments that followed the moment he was held down were like. To go through all that after a life which I just read was tarnished with enough tragedy already. And I really, really dislike hearing people say, "Well, it's sad but he knew the risk he was taking" - This is irrelevant... Would you say that to his mum, who incedentally is too old to probably survive her grief, would you say it to any of his family? If you were shot by a policeman in Chaing Rai or killed on a bike in Samui, would you want people saying - "Well, he wanted to live in Thailand, he knew the risks". There is no criticism to give Kenneth Bigley on account of the way he has just died and it's annoying to read it, no matter how mild, just for the sake of typing something different to everyone else. That guy who posted 'good riddance etc...' there is no point in having a go at him because he just wants to stir up a reaction. He is as sick as the fanatics and can't be helped, but all the same I hope he gets what Rod reccommended or similar. I recently started a thread titled 'Kenneth Bigley - Any News' in the HKK forum - perhaps it could now be used as a message board to his wife? Surely somebody connected with Thaivisa.com would have a way of contacting her and passing the condolencies on... Just an idea. Absolutely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 There is a way to instil abject fear in the minds of those considering terrorist acts, and to make them re-consider. It insults the very core beliefs of Islam ... but I believe it is the only answer. We must fight radical Islamic terror with an even greater terror ... and moderate Muslims must accept that this is neccessary for the future of Islam.Fear of dying in disgrace in the eyes of Allah is the only thing those brainwashed terrorist bastards are afraid of. I believe the only answer is to unleash the greatest of all terrors on the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of every identified radical Islamic loony. No Muslim will personally take that terrible step ... but moderate Muslims must support those who will. Surprised to hear your thoughts, Rod. Surprised..., because, coincidentally, two years ago, as reprehensible to the civilized mind as it is, I wrote a paper suggesting that this same idea might be the only viable solution to the problem of suicidal terrorists. I circulated it amongst my colleagues and friends -- and the reception was at best tepid. Outright horror at the worst -- we would be behaving no better than they are!! I try ... I really do ... to live by the teachings of the Lord Buddha ... for the past thirty years I've worn Buddhist tattoos as a reminder ... but I was born with a demon in my shadow, and no matter how hard I try, I can't run away from what I am. I've brought up "death in disgrace in the eyes of Allah" as a solution to this lunacy before, many times and in many places ... including right here on thaivisa, where the thread was arbitrarily deleted. (I don't blame the moderators ... they have a business to run, and letting a vicious sonofabitch like me loose with carte blanche on the forum is probably not in their best interests.) Historically, slaughtering family members ignominously and in disgrace in the eyes of Allah has been an effective method of keeping Islamic dissidents in line for centuries. My Mongol ancestors used it to control rebels after they had conquered the Islamic world. So did the Knights Templar. So did the French Foreign Legion, not all that long ago. To a devout Muslim, being forced to drink pig's blood and/or being wrapped in the skin of a freshly-killed pig before being executed is the horror to end all horrors ... he can imagine nothing worse ... and yes, if we start vengefully executing the families of terrorists in this way then our behavior will be no better than theirs ... but I believe that Radical Islam in the 21st Century is so far out of control that we have no other choice! One does wonder, though, what would be the level of terrorism today, had this solution been implemented two years ago? And what would now today be the net difference in loss of innocent lives? It should have been implemented two years ago ... but it's not too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 It is time for moderate Muslims to stand up and defend, salvage, and reclaim their own religion, and to speak out against its sullied misuse. Moderate Muslims are losing the battle because the actions of loonies speak louder than the words of moderates ... Rod, I agree with most everything that you have said in your post. However, my point is that I see very little evidence that moderate Muslims are even bothering to enter the "battle". There is evidence that moderate Muslims are starting to speak up ... but in most cases the media's hearing is blindly focused on the voices of the radicals. A recent talk-back show on Metro-TV in Jakarta was inundated with calls from everyday Muslims denouncing the Australian Embassy bombing. Leading clerics of various factions in various Arab States have spoken out publicly and on radio and television against hostage-takers and suicide bombers and their ilk ... in most cases branding the perps "non-Muslims" and "criminals in the eyes of Allah". That's not carrying the ball far enough! Despite its membership being decimated by Indonesian secret police in the two years since the Bali bombings, the ranks of Jemaah Islamiah continue to swell, and the ranks of mujahideen and other self-proclaimed "warriors of God" continue to swell despite the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a way to instil abject fear in the minds of those considering terrorist acts, and to make them re-consider. It insults the very core beliefs of Islam ... but I believe it is the only answer. We must fight radical Islamic terror with an even greater terror ... and moderate Muslims must accept that this is neccessary for the future of Islam. Where’s the Outrage?Somebody's gotta take the first step, but to be effective it will have to be a Muslim step... Fear of dying in disgrace in the eyes of Allah is the only thing those brainwashed terrorist bastards are afraid of. I believe the only answer is to unleash the greatest of all terrors on the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of every identified radical Islamic loony. No Muslim will personally take that terrible step ... but moderate Muslims must support those who will. As someone has said before - like when they bombed the World Trade Center - invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert the massses to Christianity. End of story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 The previous crusades did nothing but to terrorize ordinary people on both sides further. That's why it's imperative to stop people like yourselves right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santini Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 A hostage killed because no ransom paid,A country acttack because of oil reserved. Kenneth Bigleys captors were not motivated by money. They never demanded a ransom, not once. Publicity was there sole aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_canada42 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 It takes time for moderates to be heard. I have watched radicals movements of different periods of time over my life time and eventually people get fed up with them and they get squashed. You can't go around killing people forever and get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 I try ... I really do ... to live by the teachings of the Lord Buddha ... for the past thirty years I've worn Buddhist tattoos as a reminder ... but I was born with a demon in my shadow, and no matter how hard I try, I can't run away from what I am. Although I can relate to your comments I can't understand why you're still bothered. You call yourself an "ex-warrior" so I suppose you've gone through ###### and back and have seen not only humankind at it's worst but have been face to face with death and your own fears. Having lived through all that wouldn't you agree that there is no point to it all so why not walk away and enjoy life and leave the best way to get even to all those other armchair wannabee posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 The previous crusades did nothing but to terrorize ordinary people on both sides further. That's why it's imperative to stop people like yourselves right now. OK...what's your solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkexplorer Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 My deepest condolences to the Bigley family. May his soul rest in peace with his son.. Do not make the mistake of thinking all muslims are the enemy. It is only a handful of these radicals among the muslim world who are causing this grief. I myself have muslim friends and they are our fellow brothers. Let us live together and treat them as how you would like to be treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Although I can relate to your comments I can't understand why you're still bothered. In an ideal world, no mother would have to swap her son's life for a flag ... but many mothers' sons have given their lives trying to create a world in which a wife would not have to see her husband callously beheaded by Islamic lunatics. We don't live in an ideal world ... and until we do, I can never be as close to the Lord Buddha as I would like to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Do not make the mistake of thinking all muslims are the enemy. It is only a handful of these radicals among the muslim world who are causing this grief. The problem faced by the everyday Muslim is "They all look the same and sound the same and dress the same" ... so how do we tell the enemy Muslim from the friendly Muslim ? Do we wait to see if he fires the first shot ... or do we shoot first and modify the "If he has slanted eyes and he's dead, he's Viet Cong" policy to suit today's enemy ? World hatred for Islam gathers momentum with each passing day ... and all Muslims are being tarred with the same brush. The "Kill them all and let God sort them out" mentality is spreading across the world like wildfire, and each beheading and suicide bombing adds fuel to that fire. Moderate Muslims must completely disassociate themselves from terrorism if they wish to live. They must either stand up and fight alongside infidels against Radical Islam or continue to do do nothing and die alongside the common enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 As someone has said before - like when they bombed the World Trade Center - invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert the massses to Christianity. End of story... ===== Things got bad, and things got worse, then things got worse again. The sights and sounds and smells of death had turned my blood to ice. Flechette, Puff, and Napalm. Tools of monsters, not of men. I sold my soul to the God of War, and Calley paid the price. ===== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkexplorer Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 The problem faced by the everyday Muslim is "They all look the same and sound the same and dress the same" ... so how do we tell the enemy Muslim from the friendly Muslim ? Moderate Muslims must completely disassociate themselves from terrorism if they wish to live. They must either stand up and fight alongside infidels against Radical Islam or continue to do do nothing and die alongside the common enemy. Absolutely agreed. Not only must they dissociate themselves, but condemn their actions to other muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 The problem faced by the everyday Muslim is "They all look the same and sound the same and dress the same" ... so how do we tell the enemy Muslim from the friendly Muslim ? Moderate Muslims must completely disassociate themselves from terrorism if they wish to live. They must either stand up and fight alongside infidels against Radical Islam or continue to do do nothing and die alongside the common enemy. Absolutely agreed. Not only must they dissociate themselves, but condemn their actions to other muslims. and do it very, very loudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 The problem faced by the everyday Muslim is "They all look the same and sound the same and dress the same" ... so how do we tell the enemy Muslim from the friendly Muslim ?The problem is, all Americans look the same. How can one tell the difference between those inciting to violence against women and children, waging war on nations in Muslim regions, and those who don't dare to take actions against their evil leaders?Maybe it is time to bomb all of the US until the moderate Americans stop the hatemongers and warleaders in their own country. Or, like BoonMee said, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Can you see the stupidity of this attitude?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Can you see the stupidity of this attitude?!? No ... but I can see the futility of your child-like simplistic view of the situation. If you think pulling all foreign troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan will put an end to Radical Islamic terrorism then you might as well bend over backwards and kiss your arse goodbye right now ... while you still have one to kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkstoney Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Americans should get the f*** out of Iraq--and their little "yes men" the British. They had no right to be there in the first place. They used the 9/11 tragedy as a smokescreen, preying on the need for vengence of the citizens of their country. They too are beheading and dismembering innocent men, women, and children with their missiles and bombs. You call them [radical Muslims] cowards for beheading these men. They did it with their own hands. They have more courage in their little knife-weilding pinkies than all the pilots who drop death from above. They are protecting their country from armies manipulated by trans-national corporations. I would do the same for my country if I was being attacked by overwhelmingly powerful forces against which I had very little resources with which to retalliate. But hey, I feel sad for his family. I feel sad for them that he chose a line of work that put himself and them in this situation. I feel sad that he wasn't home taking care of his own, instead of chasing a buck around a doomed sandpit. If only people got so worked up over just one child killed by an American bomb. Just think how much outrage there would be every time a child is blown to bits, or worse, survives a bombing with an eye missing or a limb or a hand or a foot or all of the above. No wonder they hate us. We can only see ourselves. We can only comment on how horrible it is for us. This isn't a spectator sport. People are getting murdered everywhere--individually on the streets and in mass campaigns. You make me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 If only people got so worked up over just one child killed by an American bomb. I do ... and I get worked up over one child being killed by a lunatic Muslim who fires an RPG at a school bus in Tel Aviv ... and I get worked up over one child being killed by the retaliatory Israeli helicopter gunship attack on a Hamas camp ... but none of this changes the fact that you should be tied over a log and ######ed to death by rabid dogs, you terrorist-sympathising <deleted>! I would do the same for my country if I was being attacked by overwhelmingly powerful forces against which I had very little resources with which to retalliate. No you wouldn't. You'd whimper and cry and cower in a corner somewhere, poking your cowardly head out occasionally to tell us how brave you are and to cheer for the moral weaklings who had murdered some unarmed innocent non-combatant ... just like you're doing here on thaivisa. Do your parents a favor ... go kill yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Something tells me this thread has become... immoderate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Something tells me this thread has become... immoderate! Yeah ... I should refrain from responding when posters come across as being more stupid in real life than the words they type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf5370 Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Love, regret and sympathies - all I can muster - to Khun Sombat and the rest of his family and friends. May God (by whatever name) protect and give strength to the moderates to rise up with the only weopon that will work - education and spreading the real word, in context, written in their holy book of books. May God (by whatever name) help us all avoid the road the 3rd World War, on which we are being led. May God (by whatever name) bring peace to the Middle East and an answer to the Israel/Palestine conflict - that removes the statlessness that the Palestinians endure (as the Jews did for millenia). For this will take away the biggest excuse that the fanatical leaders of terrorist site when recruiting. May God (by whatever name) bring peace, forgiveness and releif to the hearts of Khun Sombat, Ken's family and all the posters here and expats in LOS who have been hurt and angered by these evil deeds - for this was the intent of the action, and no civilised person would want to give the evil-doers want the want - irrational response leading to an expansion of the 'crisis' and on toward WW3. May God (by whatever name) grant wisdom to those stupid enough to mistake a psychopathic personality with bravery - if it is 'brave' to sever a mans head with your own hand, then why do we lock up serial killers and psychopaths? May God (by whatever name) grant wisdom and courage to our leaders - on all sides. May God (by whatever name) grant understanding to those that truley believe that any civilised government would allow a war in this day-and-age, to be fought over oil or any commodity. Let them understand that the neigh-sayers in Europe had far more impetus to say 'No' than those that said yes - those that sold nuclear components, weoponry, chemicals, millitary vehicle etc (look where these came from - France, Russia, Germany) May God (by whatever name) grant Ken and other innocents killed in this war, on all sides, a place in heaven and deny those that intentionally kill innocents in attempt to further their cause. May God (by whatever name) help us all. Sahtoo (Amen etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katyusha Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 To a devout Muslim, being forced to drink pig's blood and/or being wrapped in the skin of a freshly-killed pig before being executed is the horror to end all horrors ... he can imagine nothing worse ... and yes, if we start vengefully executing the families of terrorists in this way then our behavior will be no better than theirs ... When your enemy ignores the Geneva Convention and the acceptable Rules of Engagement, the only way to defeat him is to become like him, or worse. I believe that Radical Islam in the 21st Century is so far out of control that we have no other choice! I agree. There is no other choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costas Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Americans should get the f*** out of Iraq--and their little "yes men" the British. They had no right to be there in the first place. They used the 9/11 tragedy as a smokescreen, preying on the need for vengence of the citizens of their country. They too are beheading and dismembering innocent men, women, and children with their missiles and bombs. You call them [radical Muslims] cowards for beheading these men. They did it with their own hands. They have more courage in their little knife-weilding pinkies than all the pilots who drop death from above. They are protecting their country from armies manipulated by trans-national corporations. I would do the same for my country if I was being attacked by overwhelmingly powerful forces against which I had very little resources with which to retalliate.But hey, I feel sad for his family. I feel sad for them that he chose a line of work that put himself and them in this situation. I feel sad that he wasn't home taking care of his own, instead of chasing a buck around a doomed sandpit. If only people got so worked up over just one child killed by an American bomb. Just think how much outrage there would be every time a child is blown to bits, or worse, survives a bombing with an eye missing or a limb or a hand or a foot or all of the above. No wonder they hate us. We can only see ourselves. We can only comment on how horrible it is for us. This isn't a spectator sport. People are getting murdered everywhere--individually on the streets and in mass campaigns. You make me sick. could not agree more, at last a voice of reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Although I can relate to your comments I can't understand why you're still bothered. In an ideal world, no mother would have to swap her son's life for a flag ... but many mothers' sons have given their lives trying to create a world in which a wife would not have to see her husband callously beheaded by Islamic lunatics. We don't live in an ideal world ... and until we do, I can never be as close to the Lord Buddha as I would like to be. Fair enough, although I think the difficulty that you're faced with is your own moral distinction between good and bad. A warrior has risen above this and does not fight for a cause but for the sake of fighting itself. Once you realise that there is no such thing as a "good" fight or "bad" fight you can choose to remain a warrior or become an ex-warrior and get on with life. Until that time, no disrespect meant, I suppose you're a knight, able to maim, rape and kill for a good cause but condemning those who do the same for a bad cause. At least you're halfway there so it's not too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Until that time, no disrespect meant, I suppose you're a knight, able to maim, rape and kill for a good cause but condemning those who do the same for a bad cause.Maybe Rod should be put behind bars for a while for inciting to violence against ethnic and religious groups, so he has an opportunity to meditate on above quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartender100 Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 ADMIN NOTE: 1. Political discussions not allowed in this thread, please go to http://www.bearpit.net 2. Please post with style here, this is the third Bangkok expat beheaded in Iraq. Members breaking the Forum rules will be banned from this forum. /Admin Mods please close this thread. Or do what you said you were going to do.This guy does not deserve this crap.He was one of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatero Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Mods please close this thread...This guy does not deserve this crap.He was one of us. Personally, I believe that we could offer no greater homage to this man, Ken Bigley, and to his family, than to originate the vigorous debate that eventually helps to bring this kind of morbid, fanatical, extremist insanity to an end. Anyone care to presume that Sombat would not be in favor of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Personally, I believe that we could offer no greater homage to this man, Ken Bigley, and to his family, than to originate the vigorous debate that eventually helps to bring this kind of morbid, fanatical, extremist insanity to an end. Anything less, and his death will have been in vain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katyusha Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Americans should get the f*** out of Iraq--and their little "yes men" the British. They had no right to be there in the first place. They used the 9/11 tragedy as a smokescreen, preying on the need for vengence of the citizens of their country. They too are beheading and dismembering innocent men, women, and children with their missiles and bombs. You call them [radical Muslims] cowards for beheading these men. They did it with their own hands. They have more courage in their little knife-weilding pinkies than all the pilots who drop death from above. They are protecting their country from armies manipulated by trans-national corporations. I would do the same for my country if I was being attacked by overwhelmingly powerful forces against which I had very little resources with which to retalliate.But hey, I feel sad for his family. I feel sad for them that he chose a line of work that put himself and them in this situation. I feel sad that he wasn't home taking care of his own, instead of chasing a buck around a doomed sandpit. If only people got so worked up over just one child killed by an American bomb. Just think how much outrage there would be every time a child is blown to bits, or worse, survives a bombing with an eye missing or a limb or a hand or a foot or all of the above. No wonder they hate us. We can only see ourselves. We can only comment on how horrible it is for us. This isn't a spectator sport. People are getting murdered everywhere--individually on the streets and in mass campaigns. You make me sick. could not agree more, at last a voice of reason! More like the voice of treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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