Songkran Death Toll Rises To 180

[george]

Songkran death toll rises to 180

BANGKOK: -- A total of 76 people were killed and 1,103 others were injured in road accidents on Sunday, the third day of the 7-dangerous-day of Songkran festival, the Road Safety Monitoring Centre announced Monday.

Jaral Phakdeethanakul, permanent secretary for Justice Minister who is an official of the road safety centre, said 1,018 road accidents happened Sunday.

He said the accumulated death toll of the three first day of the seven dangerous period rose to 180.

He said 2,238 accidents happened from Friday to Sunday, in which 2,514 people were injured.

Jaral said drunk driving was still the main cause of the accidents and 84.18 accidents involved motorcycles.

-- The Nation 2008-04-14

[sbk]

How does this compare to day 3 of last year?

[Robbie Dye]

A cynic might say that that as Thailand does not have a war to fight, this is Mother Natures way of culling the population. I read today also that the Interior Minsiter is considering banning alcohol at Songkran next year, that would make it like a 7 day election and kiss goodbye to even more tourists. Let's face it, whatever we say or think, nothing will change because the Thais seem to LIKE risking their own lives and that of others with lunatic behaviour. I feel truly sorry for the loss of life incurred thus fare and for what is still to come. Happy Songkran, stay at home!

[Maejo Man]

How does this compare to day 3 of last year?

I can't find any figures for the first three days of last year, but the total was 361 dead. If they keep going at the rate they are, the death toll will exceed 400 this year, a sad indictment of policing on the roads

[Lifelover]

How does this compare to day 3 of last year?

Sadly, it probably doesn't 'matter' what the answer is to your question, except to a statistician perhaps, because that's all it is: a statistic. Same, same every year and nothing is likely to change people's behaviour over the Songkran holiday whether the figure is 20%, or even 100% higher than last year. Everyone is aware of the danger on the roads at Songkran and while some take precautions, many simply don't care. It seems that the fun is worth the risk.

I don't believe that the culprit is just alcohol either. Ignorance and over-exuberance are equally to blame. Take for example the case of a pick-up full of people racing along a two lane main highway at 100km passing a motorbike with three kids on it traveling same direction at 60km. The pick-up occupants hurl several buckets of water at the motorbike riders who are caught unaware, wobble and come to a dead halt in the middle of the lane. The car traveling behind the motorbike on this occasion (yesterday) happened to be me and I could hardly see out of the windscreen because of the water that had just been thrown at my car too by the passing pick up. I very nearly slammed into the back of the bike, but luckily I was at a sufficient distance behind to swerve and avoid them. Several people could have died just then. It was 9.00am and I doubt that anyone 'involved' had been drinking. Repeat this scenario a thousand times a day all over Thailand and the odds of a less satisfactory conclusion build up...

Very, very sad for all who are injured. I just don't see anything changing.

[Flatouthruthefog]

How does this compare to day 3 of last year?

Yes - and just as relevant - how does this compare with an AVERAGE period of the same length in a NON holiday week?

Thai stats never seem to give us this one, even looonnnnggg after the water war killings. Why, I wonder? Is there no such thing as an "average period"?

[Boater]

Even they where to ban alcohol next year, it is only the sale, thus people will stock up prior... also note songkran for example has only lasted 1 day in Samui.... how they could ban for 7 days!, kiss goodbye to the tourists!!!!

If they pin pointed the promblem to BAD policeing, maybe there would not be so many deaths.......

I myself have lost a very good friend yesterday who was killed..... he will be just another satistic, but the crash/acciedent was avoidable if the police where doing there Job !!!!!!!!

[gmac]

A cynic might say that that as Thailand does not have a war to fight, this is Mother Natures way of culling the population. I read today also that the Interior Minsiter is considering banning alcohol at Songkran next year, that would make it like a 7 day election and kiss goodbye to even more tourists. Let's face it, whatever we say or think, nothing will change because the Thais seem to LIKE risking their own lives and that of others with lunatic behaviour. I feel truly sorry for the loss of life incurred thus fare and for what is still to come. Happy Songkran, stay at home!

What a great idea - As I live here full time the thought of a dry Songkran (alcoholicly speaking) is music to my ears. No more drunken tourists thinking it's hilarious to soak residents trying to get on with their daily life. I often wonder how one of these "funseekers" would feel about having a bucket of iced water poured over him as he was on his way to work or the supermarket??

I'm no killjoy and have no problem with those that want to enjoy soaking each other from having their fun....BUT move it off the roads, get it into park areas let those whp don't want ot get involved get on with their lives in peace. If it was just 1 or even 2 days it wouldn't be a problem but here in Pattaya 10 days??? It's absurd - no wonder many residents leave the country for the period!

[geriatrickid]

.... I read today also that the Interior Minsiter is considering banning alcohol at Songkran next year, that would make it like a 7 day election and kiss goodbye to even more tourists. Let's face it, whatever we say or think, nothing will change because the Thais seem to LIKE risking their own lives and that of others with lunatic behaviour.......

uhh like NOT. The tourists and foreign residents that specifically avoid Thailand during the week most likely are the type of person Thailand needs most: i.e with money and an actual interest in the country. If a yob avoids Thailand during songkran because he/she can't get pis$ed drunk while trying to annoy as many people as possible, it's hardly a loss to the local economy. I'm sure they'll come stay in their cheap digs and haggle over a 20bh discount another week. Like a bad fungus, those people are hard to be rid of.

[jaideeguy]

On an earlier 'death toll' news topic, I suggested a way to minimise the death toll would be to simply shorten the 'official' holidays.....but rethinking that, It's summer vacation for the kids and they will play 3-4 days before and after as the kids always do.

The Thai's relationship with alcohol is the biggest contributing factor to the high death toll and that has to be addressed before we see a reduction in death tolls. They drink till they drop or die.

[gdhm]

It IS all very, very sad.

Unfortunately each holiday we read comments from the authorities that their target and hope is to have less deaths than the previous year.

If they manage that they consider it somewhat of a success but at what cost. It is merely a statistical success because an enormous number have still died.

We are told 86% who have died so far are motorbike riders and a huge number of deaths are drink related.

I would like to see how many of these died of head injuries and were NOT wearing helmets who may have survived otherwise (very many I bet).

The Thais mostly do not want to wear helmets and are willing to accept being occasionally caught. The Thai law however says they must wear helmets (like them or not)

How to enforce??

It is not good using the UK system of points on the driving licence, or license confiscation because 46% do not have license (or insurance). BUt they all have ID Cards and their record can be recorded in Police computer databanks.

The answer is VERY simple increasing and stiff financial penalties. The drivers understand that one AND the traffic police need as policy to try and stop ALL they see (and not only during "road block purges).

I KNOW it would take up a huge amount of police time INITIALLY (and at first many would escape penalty due to volume of numbers) BUT, as in other countries, once the riders realized they were not getting away with it and increasingly they were being pulled up (anywhere and not only at road blocks) and were having to pay huge amounts in fines they would soon obey the helmet laws (even if for the wrong reasons). This would cause a drop in necessary policing on this issue quickly and the remaining "die hards" would be easy to identify and deal with.

At the same time the police should always check for valid driving licenses and confiscate motorbikes of rider not able to show a valid driving license and ONLY release the bike when one can be shown BY THAT rider. It does not matter (unless stolen) who owns the bike, because bike owners would soon make sure only licensed driver used or borrowed their bikes if they faced confiscation.

Some may feel that harsh but harsh penalties are already in place under Thai law which permit fines AND a maximum prison term of 1 month. Its just that nobody thinks the police and authorities will impose the maximum penalty and they do not - so there is no real deterrent to driving without a license. The truth is, too many Thais do and are allowed to do what they want and not what their own laws demand for theirs and others protection.

Regarding the lack of driving licenses It should not be forgotten that most without a license have never learned the highway code, correct riding techniques, knowledge of road signs or safe handing and road positioning of their motorbikes (hence why nearly every bike rider heavily cuts the corner when turning right AND they have no insurance to pay for damage to others property or medical bills (or their own).

My wife was told by a friend (who asked why she bothered to learn to drive and take her test last week - my wife passed ) and I quote

"Oh I did my test 3 times and failed each time.It was so stupid I did not waste my money any more - I know I can drive well and I don't need the license most do not have them anyway".

I think that sums up the attitude.

Lets face it. The driving tests in all countries do not even mean you are a good safe driver but that you have satisfied the MINIMUM levels of competency to be allowed to drive on the roads with a full driving license. Clearly my wife' friend is a danger to herself and everybody else (and uninsured) her driving test failures PROVE that . Her complacent attitude is almost as dangerous.

May you and all families and friends have a safe and happy remainder of Songkran.

Regards

Dave

[dezeure]

Phuket is finally drying up today.

Everything passed quite well. I haven't heard of any major incidents. Did see some people bleeding and getting stitches... because they slipped on the dangerous polished wet floors in bars...

Regards and happy Songkhran

Sam

[maxelchey]

.... I read today also that the Interior Minsiter is considering banning alcohol at Songkran next year, that would make it like a 7 day election and kiss goodbye to even more tourists. Let's face it, whatever we say or think, nothing will change because the Thais seem to LIKE risking their own lives and that of others with lunatic behaviour.......

uhh like NOT. The tourists and foreign residents that specifically avoid Thailand during the week most likely are the type of person Thailand needs most: i.e with money and an actual interest in the country. If a yob avoids Thailand during songkran because he/she can't get pis$ed drunk while trying to annoy as many people as possible, it's hardly a loss to the local economy. I'm sure they'll come stay in their cheap digs and haggle over a 20bh discount another week. Like a bad fungus, those people are hard to be rid of.

Only natural therapy treatment can help us get rid of bad funghus: drug-raid all the guest houses in khao san non-stop during the 3 previous days of songkran, move the festivities to nearby parks and green areas only, ban any water fool play from the streets and the road, ban pick ups with people standind in the back and throwing water, police blocks at every junction with speed radars beforehand, confiscation of the bikes with illegal engines, police blocks checking on helmets, helmets have to be certified by a safety organization (not merely plastic bowls with foam inside) ... etc etc ...and so on

Yetserday there was a roadblock on Sukh. at ekamai, most bikes who were ordered to be stopped pulled the accelerator and escaped with no chasing but a sad disapointed look on the cops faces... Police has no power over the people, no authority is being shown but the talks of the barrels in some circumstances... They stopped me and I did stop, my only mistake was to drive an antic vespa and the mirror are not on the bar but lower on the front body... 100B and off I went, I was happy about it on a personal level, I won't have to leave my scooter there and go to the nearby police station, wait two hours and pay 400 bahts fine, but in the end, I knew this is showing that this is not the solution to the country main problem, never this could have happened in France or any other Eu country, you do wrong, whatever it is, there is a law and you must apply it, you don't, well you pay the fine and you rectify your shot ! You're not happy, you go to court ! THAT's it ... does it sound like utopia in Thailand?

This country needs BASIC discipline, as it is applied in other countries who feel like the civilization is evolving and has the be controlled and tamed... I don't understand why because the thai culture favors sanuk and mai pen rai attitude in their daily life, that during special holidays it is completely relaxed and people are let to their craziness and face their own destiny... sometimes paying the price for others !!

Thailand is a great country, and thai people are some of the nicest when we get to know them, but modernism and ignorance (and the spread of it) are killing Thai civilization, soon there will be left out of this only a selfish / greedy / egoistic population with no bound to traditions but to have fun and satisfy themselves

[Girlaboutglobe]

Lifelover your story is insane, that must have been so scary, thank god you managed to avoid that motorcycle. This is my first Songkran in Thailand and I figured to go to Wat Arun and Sanam Luang to check out the festivities, but when I saw what was going on on the streets here in Huay Kwang I changed my mind pretty quick. The street I'm on is fairly small and even here we saw a few minor accidents, no serious injuries luckily. I was pretty shocked to see my neighbours giving shots of whiskey to drivers who would pull up for a soaking. Hard enough to drive safely in Bangkok, let alone drunk, when the streets are wet, and with drunk pedestrians partying all over the roads chucking water. Tons of little kids in the thick of it too, it's one of those scenarios where you're standing around expecting to be giving first aid any minute.

Boater I'm so sorry about your friend, and for the families and friends of the other casualties, and for those that will happen over the next few days. It's terribly senseless. As for solutions, yeah better policing, enforcing the rules that are in place would be great, but unfortunately this is a concept being discussed on a forum mainly populated by falangs, and not by Thais themselves. The majority don't seem to see the value in it as GDHM points out. That will have to change first, and I'm not sure what it'll take for that to happen. It's a shame that there aren't any advocacy groups (or are there?), like MADD in the west. Not to say that such things are a fix all, but at least they keep these concerns in the pubic eye and apply pressure for change. There has to be a huge number of Thais who've lost loved ones in drunk driving accidents, but you don't seem to hear much from them. It seems to be swept under the rug, mai pen lai, it's such a shame.

[Maxi101]

Even they where to ban alcohol next year, it is only the sale, thus people will stock up prior... also note songkran for example has only lasted 1 day in Samui.... how they could ban for 7 days!, kiss goodbye to the tourists!!!!

If they pin pointed the promblem to BAD policeing, maybe there would not be so many deaths.......

I myself have lost a very good friend yesterday who was killed..... he will be just another satistic, but the crash/acciedent was avoidable if the police where doing there Job !!!!!!!!

Yes give the police the fault, you are not really reaslistic arent you.

maxi

[koto]

How does this compare to day 3 of last year?

Sadly, it probably doesn't 'matter' what the answer is to your question, except to a statistician perhaps, because that's all it is: a statistic. Same, same every year and nothing is likely to change people's behaviour over the Songkran holiday whether the figure is 20%, or even 100% higher than last year. Everyone is aware of the danger on the roads at Songkran and while some take precautions, many simply don't care. It seems that the fun is worth the risk.

I don't believe that the culprit is just alcohol either. Ignorance and over-exuberance are equally to blame. Take for example the case of a pick-up full of people racing along a two lane main highway at 100km passing a motorbike with three kids on it traveling same direction at 60km. The pick-up occupants hurl several buckets of water at the motorbike riders who are caught unaware, wobble and come to a dead halt in the middle of the lane. The car traveling behind the motorbike on this occasion (yesterday) happened to be me and I could hardly see out of the windscreen because of the water that had just been thrown at my car too by the passing pick up. I very nearly slammed into the back of the bike, but luckily I was at a sufficient distance behind to swerve and avoid them. Several people could have died just then. It was 9.00am and I doubt that anyone 'involved' had been drinking. Repeat this scenario a thousand times a day all over Thailand and the odds of a less satisfactory conclusion build up...

Very, very sad for all who are injured. I just don't see anything changing.

IF YOUR GOING TO RUN AND PLAY WITH THE DRUNK DOGS, YOU OPEN THE DOOR TO HURT AND OR DEATH, IT IS UP TO YOU, STAY ON THE PORCH AND PLAY IT SAFE, OR RUN WITH THE DOGS AND TAKE YOUR CHANGES, I THINK IT IS WHAT'S BETWEEN OUR EARS THAT DIRECT US ALL, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM OR WHEN TO FOLD THEM, YOU GET HURT OR DIE, IF IT'S NOT YOUR TIME, YOU LIVE AND MAYBE GET SMARTER, MAY LONG LIFE, HEALTH AND HPPINESS BE WITH US ALL.

"THE LIFE OF THE PEOPLE IS IN THE HEART, BRAIN AND THE LAND"

[prakhonchai nick]

It IS all very, very sad.

Unfortunately each holiday we read comments from the authorities that their target and hope is to have less deaths than the previous year.

If they manage that they consider it somewhat of a success but at what cost. It is merely a statistical success because an enormous number have still died.

We are told 86% who have died so far are motorbike riders and a huge number of deaths are drink related.

I would like to see how many of these died of head injuries and were NOT wearing helmets who may have survived otherwise (very many I bet).

The Thais mostly do not want to wear helmets and are willing to accept being occasionally caught. The Thai law however says they must wear helmets (like them or not)

How to enforce??

It is not good using the UK system of points on the driving licence, or license confiscation because 46% do not have license (or insurance). BUt they all have ID Cards and their record can be recorded in Police computer databanks.

The answer is VERY simple increasing and stiff financial penalties. The drivers understand that one AND the traffic police need as policy to try and stop ALL they see (and not only during "road block purges).

I KNOW it would take up a huge amount of police time INITIALLY (and at first many would escape penalty due to volume of numbers) BUT, as in other countries, once the riders realized they were not getting away with it and increasingly they were being pulled up (anywhere and not only at road blocks) and were having to pay huge amounts in fines they would soon obey the helmet laws (even if for the wrong reasons). This would cause a drop in necessary policing on this issue quickly and the remaining "die hards" would be easy to identify and deal with.

At the same time the police should always check for valid driving licenses and confiscate motorbikes of rider not able to show a valid driving license and ONLY release the bike when one can be shown BY THAT rider. It does not matter (unless stolen) who owns the bike, because bike owners would soon make sure only licensed driver used or borrowed their bikes if they faced confiscation.

Some may feel that harsh but harsh penalties are already in place under Thai law which permit fines AND a maximum prison term of 1 month. Its just that nobody thinks the police and authorities will impose the maximum penalty and they do not - so there is no real deterrent to driving without a license. The truth is, too many Thais do and are allowed to do what they want and not what their own laws demand for theirs and others protection.

Regarding the lack of driving licenses It should not be forgotten that most without a license have never learned the highway code, correct riding techniques, knowledge of road signs or safe handing and road positioning of their motorbikes (hence why nearly every bike rider heavily cuts the corner when turning right AND they have no insurance to pay for damage to others property or medical bills (or their own).

My wife was told by a friend (who asked why she bothered to learn to drive and take her test last week - my wife passed ) and I quote

"Oh I did my test 3 times and failed each time.It was so stupid I did not waste my money any more - I know I can drive well and I don't need the license most do not have them anyway".

I think that sums up the attitude.

Lets face it. The driving tests in all countries do not even mean you are a good safe driver but that you have satisfied the MINIMUM levels of competency to be allowed to drive on the roads with a full driving license. Clearly my wife' friend is a danger to herself and everybody else (and uninsured) her driving test failures PROVE that . Her complacent attitude is almost as dangerous.

May you and all families and friends have a safe and happy remainder of Songkran.

Regards

Dave

This could so easily have been written by me. Accidents will always happen, but it is necessary to ensure that they are minor ones and not major ones.

After every Songkran and New Year for the past 20 years, this being the time I have been in Thailand, successive governments set up committees to find out what went wrong and how to avoid the tragedy the following year. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!. We are told that everyone must have valid licences and insurance, (which means no kid on motorbikes), helmets must be worn by drivers and passengers, checkpoints will always be set up to stop drunk drivers and speeding, but very little ever happens.

Kids still ride motorbikes year round (some as young as 10) and are allowed to drive them into schools often with 2/3 of their classmates aboard , helmets are rarely worn in rural areas, and most village people do not have driving licences. When caught by police (mainly at the end of the month!) fines are usually 100/200bt, and a blind eye is always turned to the kids driving. Add to all these problems the stupidity and toleration of water throwing and its a wonder the numbers of accidents and fatalities are not even higher.

My village has a checkpoint just before the road enters a major highway. The main town has a checkpoint set up at a traffic light controlled intersection. On the several occasions I have passed these during the past 3 days, the personnel are just sitting around talking, drinking soft drinks, and no doubt waiting for Songkran to finish when they can claim their pay. For what? They seem to do NOTHING!

You will never totally eliminate accidents, but they can be drastically reduced with full law enforcement, and harsh penalties - why not 5000bt for starters, to be doubled upon each additional infringement.

And totally ban water throwing except in public parks etc between consenting adults and children.

[dcarden57]

Not good, but it happens in every country, we just need to continue the push to educate.

In the US, much focus on education and drunk driving, but look at the stats...

The holiday with the most alcohol-related fatalities was New Year's Holiday (227 alcohol-related deaths) <LI>The holiday with the least alcohol-related fatalities was New Year's Eve (40 alcohol-related deaths) <LI>The holiday with the highest percentage of alcohol-related fatalities as compared to the total traffic fatalities was New Year's Day (68.9% of all traffic deaths were alcohol-related) <LI>The holiday with the highest percentage of alcohol-related fatalities as compared to the total traffic fatalities was New Year's Day (68.9% of all traffic deaths were alcohol-related) <LI>Super Bowl Sunday resulted in 58 alcohol-related deaths (this was 63.7% of the total traffic fatalities) <LI>Thanksgiving resulted in 179 alcohol-related deaths (which was 39.5% of the total traffic fatalities) <LI>Christmas resulted in 147 alcohol-related deaths (which was 47.4% of the total traffic fatalities) <LI>From Thanksgiving to New Year's Day, there were 1,316 alcohol-related deaths (this was 37.5% of the total traffic fatalities during this time period

[Seneque]

Fun is being banned on a daily basis even in Thailand which is sad... accidents occurs (everywhere, evry holidays) and it is very regettable ... but please if you want to live peacefully and are bored with fun times, fun people, fun living I am sure there are plenty of destinations that would suit your way of life.

[Youbloodybeauty]

If they pin pointed the promblem to BAD policeing, maybe there would not be so many deaths.......

Yes give the police the fault, you are not really reaslistic arent you.

maxi

A policeman was giving some people a &lt;deleted&gt; good hiding yesterday (Pak Kret) with a short stick. They wouldn't stop throwing water at motorcyclists so he gave it to 'em.

Good on him - keep it up mate!

Edited April 14, 2008 by Youbloodybeauty

[Girlaboutglobe]

Fun is being banned on a daily basis even in Thailand which is sad... accidents occurs (everywhere, evry holidays) and it is very regettable ... but please if you want to live peacefully and are bored with fun times, fun people, fun living I am sure there are plenty of destinations that would suit your way of life.

I think very few people are advocating against fun, but drunk driving falls waaaaaay outside the realm of fun, acceptable or otherwise. Have you ever done it? I did once and it was scary as he11. First and last time I ever attempted it, and I wasn't all that drunk. Why was it scary? Because I was conscious of the fact that I might hurt someone, hurt myself, damage my car or someone else's, or be arrested and banned from driving on the spot. I'm alright with the water throwing, even on the streets if it's not too reckless, I'm okay with people drinking, dancing, and partying while they're hanging out in front of their houses playing with water. But when people are causing accidents and deaths by drinking and driving, and by dumping several kilos of water on unsuspecting motorcyclists it kinda stops being fun, don't you think?

[absolutelyBangkok]

Quite a bloodless Songkran so far in comparison. To understand why Songkran will always will that troublesome, google search for "Psychology of Songkran".

[Zamor]

Menkasai . . .

She died on second Songkran

On a little street just backside Seri Center Srinakarin

Shocked by some happy water throwers

Trying to swirl around, thus hitting that car . . .

Her brains popped out of her skull, her blood soaking hot asphalt

I was told she was around 20

Her friend was lucky, only broke a leg

So sad for everybody involved

Every year I like Songkran less

Lets sent some positive thoughts to every soul in agony

Death or alive

Theo

[mangostays]

It IS all very, very sad.

Unfortunately each holiday we read comments from the authorities that their target and hope is to have less deaths than the previous year.

If they manage that they consider it somewhat of a success but at what cost. It is merely a statistical success because an enormous number have still died.

We are told 86% who have died so far are motorbike riders and a huge number of deaths are drink related.

I would like to see how many of these died of head injuries and were NOT wearing helmets who may have survived otherwise (very many I bet).

The Thais mostly do not want to wear helmets and are willing to accept being occasionally caught. The Thai law however says they must wear helmets (like them or not)

How to enforce??

It is not good using the UK system of points on the driving licence, or license confiscation because 46% do not have license (or insurance). BUt they all have ID Cards and their record can be recorded in Police computer databanks.

The answer is VERY simple increasing and stiff financial penalties. The drivers understand that one AND the traffic police need as policy to try and stop ALL they see (and not only during "road block purges).

I KNOW it would take up a huge amount of police time INITIALLY (and at first many would escape penalty due to volume of numbers) BUT, as in other countries, once the riders realized they were not getting away with it and increasingly they were being pulled up (anywhere and not only at road blocks) and were having to pay huge amounts in fines they would soon obey the helmet laws (even if for the wrong reasons). This would cause a drop in necessary policing on this issue quickly and the remaining "die hards" would be easy to identify and deal with.

At the same time the police should always check for valid driving licenses and confiscate motorbikes of rider not able to show a valid driving license and ONLY release the bike when one can be shown BY THAT rider. It does not matter (unless stolen) who owns the bike, because bike owners would soon make sure only licensed driver used or borrowed their bikes if they faced confiscation.

Some may feel that harsh but harsh penalties are already in place under Thai law which permit fines AND a maximum prison term of 1 month. Its just that nobody thinks the police and authorities will impose the maximum penalty and they do not - so there is no real deterrent to driving without a license. The truth is, too many Thais do and are allowed to do what they want and not what their own laws demand for theirs and others protection.

Regarding the lack of driving licenses It should not be forgotten that most without a license have never learned the highway code, correct riding techniques, knowledge of road signs or safe handing and road positioning of their motorbikes (hence why nearly every bike rider heavily cuts the corner when turning right AND they have no insurance to pay for damage to others property or medical bills (or their own).

My wife was told by a friend (who asked why she bothered to learn to drive and take her test last week - my wife passed ) and I quote

"Oh I did my test 3 times and failed each time.It was so stupid I did not waste my money any more - I know I can drive well and I don't need the license most do not have them anyway".

I think that sums up the attitude.

Lets face it. The driving tests in all countries do not even mean you are a good safe driver but that you have satisfied the MINIMUM levels of competency to be allowed to drive on the roads with a full driving license. Clearly my wife' friend is a danger to herself and everybody else (and uninsured) her driving test failures PROVE that . Her complacent attitude is almost as dangerous.

May you and all families and friends have a safe and happy remainder of Songkran.

Regards

Dave

This could so easily have been written by me. Accidents will always happen, but it is necessary to ensure that they are minor ones and not major ones.

After every Songkran and New Year for the past 20 years, this being the time I have been in Thailand, successive governments set up committees to find out what went wrong and how to avoid the tragedy the following year. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!. We are told that everyone must have valid licences and insurance, (which means no kid on motorbikes), helmets must be worn by drivers and passengers, checkpoints will always be set up to stop drunk drivers and speeding, but very little ever happens.

Kids still ride motorbikes year round (some as young as 10) and are allowed to drive them into schools often with 2/3 of their classmates aboard , helmets are rarely worn in rural areas, and most village people do not have driving licences. When caught by police (mainly at the end of the month!) fines are usually 100/200bt, and a blind eye is always turned to the kids driving. Add to all these problems the stupidity and toleration of water throwing and its a wonder the numbers of accidents and fatalities are not even higher.

My village has a checkpoint just before the road enters a major highway. The main town has a checkpoint set up at a traffic light controlled intersection. On the several occasions I have passed these during the past 3 days, the personnel are just sitting around talking, drinking soft drinks, and no doubt waiting for Songkran to finish when they can claim their pay. For what? They seem to do NOTHING!

You will never totally eliminate accidents, but they can be drastically reduced with full law enforcement, and harsh penalties - why not 5000bt for starters, to be doubled upon each additional infringement.

And totally ban water throwing except in public parks etc between consenting adults and children.

I am getting sick and tired of reading post after post, written by expats or tourists or whatever, complaining and criticising the Thai police, the Thai traditions and the resident Thai citizens for behaving in a manner 'they' deem unaceptable. Sure, should that Thai erson/cop/politician person behave like that in the the foreigner's home country then they would be given a good flogging and sent to jail forever, BUT YOU ARE NOT IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY!!!! For gods sake, you are an expat living in a foreign country, get with the program and accept that things happen differently over here. That means differnt rules, different standards and different, well everything. If you can't come to terms with kids driving motorbikes and cops taking backhanders and all the rest of the stuff that goes on in Asia generally, then please bugger off back home and stop anoying the rest of us, who actually quite enjoy it over here.

Please, PLEASE, stop using this site and simlar to vent your phobias, missunderstandings and other culture shock related fears - we know it can be anoying sometimes, and yes, it is confusing and often frustrating, but it's still better than crappy weather, 34% income tax (my backet anyway) and 17.5% VAT.

Incidentally, I went out yesterday in Koh Phangan, on a motorbike, with my 1 year old son. The thais did not throw water in our faces, nobody crashed into us and I didn't get stabbed or shot of done by the police. However,some Thai people did respectfully splash water over us with my blessing (shock horror!!!).

The only people who did throw water in my face as I was driving (slowly and sobely) along were the pissed tourists hanging out of the girly bars in Baan Tai.

[Seneque]

Fun is being banned on a daily basis even in Thailand which is sad... accidents occurs (everywhere, evry holidays) and it is very regettable ... but please if you want to live peacefully and are bored with fun times, fun people, fun living I am sure there are plenty of destinations that would suit your way of life.

I think very few people are advocating against fun, but drunk driving falls waaaaaay outside the realm of fun, acceptable or otherwise. Have you ever done it? I did once and it was scary as he11. First and last time I ever attempted it, and I wasn't all that drunk. Why was it scary? Because I was conscious of the fact that I might hurt someone, hurt myself, damage my car or someone else's, or be arrested and banned from driving on the spot. I'm alright with the water throwing, even on the streets if it's not too reckless, I'm okay with people drinking, dancing, and partying while they're hanging out in front of their houses playing with water. But when people are causing accidents and deaths by drinking and driving, and by dumping several kilos of water on unsuspecting motorcyclists it kinda stops being fun, don't you think?

Yes of course I agree on the drunk/driving scene which is getting obscene.... and many casualties resulting from it .... but please realise that we are slowly sliding into a policy (european/american style) where because one drown while not being able to swim we have to forbid the pool to the all / a metaphore of course ... but that's the way it is going ... and it is not fun

[spencerdharmagrafix]

A cynic might say that that as Thailand does not have a war to fight, this is Mother Natures way of culling the population. I read today also that the Interior Minsiter is considering banning alcohol at Songkran next year, that would make it like a 7 day election and kiss goodbye to even more tourists. Let's face it, whatever we say or think, nothing will change because the Thais seem to LIKE risking their own lives and that of others with lunatic behaviour. I feel truly sorry for the loss of life incurred thus fare and for what is still to come. Happy Songkran, stay at home!

Banning alcohol won't change anything as the folk wont take any notice...same as the ice water and white powder (paeng)..

it has been illegal since years to drive (suan tang) the wrong way up the road on the side path..drive to the south from BKK and you will notice that you constantly have motorbikes driving in contra-direction up the side paths trying to get you and themselves to die (without a helmet on)

I never wwear a helmet except in BKK and even then only when i drive out of my area...never get stopped and even the few times i do they ask for 100 baht and off you go.

So banning alcohol just wont do anything

the real solution to stopping accidents is far far away in the future as the reason for the chaos and corruption is not the law, it is the hearts of the folk, which are greedy, uneducated, unmoral/ethical and corrupt.

This has to be dug up at the roots through education and social sciences.

Selfishness is the rule here and this is the cause for a completely beautiful country full of decadent souls

[apetley]

It IS all very, very sad.

Unfortunately each holiday we read comments from the authorities that their target and hope is to have less deaths than the previous year.

If they manage that they consider it somewhat of a success but at what cost. It is merely a statistical success because an enormous number have still died.

We are told 86% who have died so far are motorbike riders and a huge number of deaths are drink related.

I would like to see how many of these died of head injuries and were NOT wearing helmets who may have survived otherwise (very many I bet).

The Thais mostly do not want to wear helmets and are willing to accept being occasionally caught. The Thai law however says they must wear helmets (like them or not)

How to enforce??

It is not good using the UK system of points on the driving licence, or license confiscation because 46% do not have license (or insurance). BUt they all have ID Cards and their record can be recorded in Police computer databanks.

The answer is VERY simple increasing and stiff financial penalties. The drivers understand that one AND the traffic police need as policy to try and stop ALL they see (and not only during "road block purges).

I KNOW it would take up a huge amount of police time INITIALLY (and at first many would escape penalty due to volume of numbers) BUT, as in other countries, once the riders realized they were not getting away with it and increasingly they were being pulled up (anywhere and not only at road blocks) and were having to pay huge amounts in fines they would soon obey the helmet laws (even if for the wrong reasons). This would cause a drop in necessary policing on this issue quickly and the remaining "die hards" would be easy to identify and deal with.

At the same time the police should always check for valid driving licenses and confiscate motorbikes of rider not able to show a valid driving license and ONLY release the bike when one can be shown BY THAT rider. It does not matter (unless stolen) who owns the bike, because bike owners would soon make sure only licensed driver used or borrowed their bikes if they faced confiscation.

Some may feel that harsh but harsh penalties are already in place under Thai law which permit fines AND a maximum prison term of 1 month. Its just that nobody thinks the police and authorities will impose the maximum penalty and they do not - so there is no real deterrent to driving without a license. The truth is, too many Thais do and are allowed to do what they want and not what their own laws demand for theirs and others protection.

Regarding the lack of driving licenses It should not be forgotten that most without a license have never learned the highway code, correct riding techniques, knowledge of road signs or safe handing and road positioning of their motorbikes (hence why nearly every bike rider heavily cuts the corner when turning right AND they have no insurance to pay for damage to others property or medical bills (or their own).

My wife was told by a friend (who asked why she bothered to learn to drive and take her test last week - my wife passed ) and I quote

"Oh I did my test 3 times and failed each time.It was so stupid I did not waste my money any more - I know I can drive well and I don't need the license most do not have them anyway".

I think that sums up the attitude.

Lets face it. The driving tests in all countries do not even mean you are a good safe driver but that you have satisfied the MINIMUM levels of competency to be allowed to drive on the roads with a full driving license. Clearly my wife' friend is a danger to herself and everybody else (and uninsured) her driving test failures PROVE that . Her complacent attitude is almost as dangerous.

May you and all families and friends have a safe and happy remainder of Songkran.

Regards

Dave

This could so easily have been written by me. Accidents will always happen, but it is necessary to ensure that they are minor ones and not major ones.

After every Songkran and New Year for the past 20 years, this being the time I have been in Thailand, successive governments set up committees to find out what went wrong and how to avoid the tragedy the following year. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!. We are told that everyone must have valid licences and insurance, (which means no kid on motorbikes), helmets must be worn by drivers and passengers, checkpoints will always be set up to stop drunk drivers and speeding, but very little ever happens.

Kids still ride motorbikes year round (some as young as 10) and are allowed to drive them into schools often with 2/3 of their classmates aboard , helmets are rarely worn in rural areas, and most village people do not have driving licences. When caught by police (mainly at the end of the month!) fines are usually 100/200bt, and a blind eye is always turned to the kids driving. Add to all these problems the stupidity and toleration of water throwing and its a wonder the numbers of accidents and fatalities are not even higher.

My village has a checkpoint just before the road enters a major highway. The main town has a checkpoint set up at a traffic light controlled intersection. On the several occasions I have passed these during the past 3 days, the personnel are just sitting around talking, drinking soft drinks, and no doubt waiting for Songkran to finish when they can claim their pay. For what? They seem to do NOTHING!

You will never totally eliminate accidents, but they can be drastically reduced with full law enforcement, and harsh penalties - why not 5000bt for starters, to be doubled upon each additional infringement.

And totally ban water throwing except in public parks etc between consenting adults and children.

I am getting sick and tired of reading post after post, written by expats or tourists or whatever, complaining and criticising the Thai police, the Thai traditions and the resident Thai citizens for behaving in a manner 'they' deem unaceptable. Sure, should that Thai erson/cop/politician person behave like that in the the foreigner's home country then they would be given a good flogging and sent to jail forever, BUT YOU ARE NOT IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY!!!! For gods sake, you are an expat living in a foreign country, get with the program and accept that things happen differently over here. That means differnt rules, different standards and different, well everything. If you can't come to terms with kids driving motorbikes and cops taking backhanders and all the rest of the stuff that goes on in Asia generally, then please bugger off back home and stop anoying the rest of us, who actually quite enjoy it over here.

Please, PLEASE, stop using this site and simlar to vent your phobias, missunderstandings and other culture shock related fears - we know it can be anoying sometimes, and yes, it is confusing and often frustrating, but it's still better than crappy weather, 34% income tax (my backet anyway) and 17.5% VAT.

Incidentally, I went out yesterday in Koh Phangan, on a motorbike, with my 1 year old son. The thais did not throw water in our faces, nobody crashed into us and I didn't get stabbed or shot of done by the police. However,some Thai people did respectfully splash water over us with my blessing (shock horror!!!).

The only people who did throw water in my face as I was driving (slowly and sobely) along were the pissed tourists hanging out of the girly bars in Baan Tai.

Even the Thais want to do something about the horrific accident statistics that accompany this annual lunacy so it is hardly only a concern shared by foreigners.

Many of my Thai friends also hate the idiotic and drunk driving too.

When I for one see something wrong in Thailand I will say something about it. To accept the annual cull is tantamount to condoning the sad state of affairs on Thai roads. It needn't be like this.

And if your taking your one year son out on a motorbike during Songkran your an irresponsible idiot.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

I enjoy Songkran.

Sorry

[maxelchey]

It IS all very, very sad.

Unfortunately each holiday we read comments from the authorities that their target and hope is to have less deaths than the previous year.

If they manage that they consider it somewhat of a success but at what cost. It is merely a statistical success because an enormous number have still died.

We are told 86% who have died so far are motorbike riders and a huge number of deaths are drink related.

I would like to see how many of these died of head injuries and were NOT wearing helmets who may have survived otherwise (very many I bet).

The Thais mostly do not want to wear helmets and are willing to accept being occasionally caught. The Thai law however says they must wear helmets (like them or not)

How to enforce??

It is not good using the UK system of points on the driving licence, or license confiscation because 46% do not have license (or insurance). BUt they all have ID Cards and their record can be recorded in Police computer databanks.

The answer is VERY simple increasing and stiff financial penalties. The drivers understand that one AND the traffic police need as policy to try and stop ALL they see (and not only during "road block purges).

I KNOW it would take up a huge amount of police time INITIALLY (and at first many would escape penalty due to volume of numbers) BUT, as in other countries, once the riders realized they were not getting away with it and increasingly they were being pulled up (anywhere and not only at road blocks) and were having to pay huge amounts in fines they would soon obey the helmet laws (even if for the wrong reasons). This would cause a drop in necessary policing on this issue quickly and the remaining "die hards" would be easy to identify and deal with.

At the same time the police should always check for valid driving licenses and confiscate motorbikes of rider not able to show a valid driving license and ONLY release the bike when one can be shown BY THAT rider. It does not matter (unless stolen) who owns the bike, because bike owners would soon make sure only licensed driver used or borrowed their bikes if they faced confiscation.

Some may feel that harsh but harsh penalties are already in place under Thai law which permit fines AND a maximum prison term of 1 month. Its just that nobody thinks the police and authorities will impose the maximum penalty and they do not - so there is no real deterrent to driving without a license. The truth is, too many Thais do and are allowed to do what they want and not what their own laws demand for theirs and others protection.

Regarding the lack of driving licenses It should not be forgotten that most without a license have never learned the highway code, correct riding techniques, knowledge of road signs or safe handing and road positioning of their motorbikes (hence why nearly every bike rider heavily cuts the corner when turning right AND they have no insurance to pay for damage to others property or medical bills (or their own).

My wife was told by a friend (who asked why she bothered to learn to drive and take her test last week - my wife passed ) and I quote

"Oh I did my test 3 times and failed each time.It was so stupid I did not waste my money any more - I know I can drive well and I don't need the license most do not have them anyway".

I think that sums up the attitude.

Lets face it. The driving tests in all countries do not even mean you are a good safe driver but that you have satisfied the MINIMUM levels of competency to be allowed to drive on the roads with a full driving license. Clearly my wife' friend is a danger to herself and everybody else (and uninsured) her driving test failures PROVE that . Her complacent attitude is almost as dangerous.

May you and all families and friends have a safe and happy remainder of Songkran.

Regards

Dave

This could so easily have been written by me. Accidents will always happen, but it is necessary to ensure that they are minor ones and not major ones.

After every Songkran and New Year for the past 20 years, this being the time I have been in Thailand, successive governments set up committees to find out what went wrong and how to avoid the tragedy the following year. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!. We are told that everyone must have valid licences and insurance, (which means no kid on motorbikes), helmets must be worn by drivers and passengers, checkpoints will always be set up to stop drunk drivers and speeding, but very little ever happens.

Kids still ride motorbikes year round (some as young as 10) and are allowed to drive them into schools often with 2/3 of their classmates aboard , helmets are rarely worn in rural areas, and most village people do not have driving licences. When caught by police (mainly at the end of the month!) fines are usually 100/200bt, and a blind eye is always turned to the kids driving. Add to all these problems the stupidity and toleration of water throwing and its a wonder the numbers of accidents and fatalities are not even higher.

My village has a checkpoint just before the road enters a major highway. The main town has a checkpoint set up at a traffic light controlled intersection. On the several occasions I have passed these during the past 3 days, the personnel are just sitting around talking, drinking soft drinks, and no doubt waiting for Songkran to finish when they can claim their pay. For what? They seem to do NOTHING!

You will never totally eliminate accidents, but they can be drastically reduced with full law enforcement, and harsh penalties - why not 5000bt for starters, to be doubled upon each additional infringement.

And totally ban water throwing except in public parks etc between consenting adults and children.

I am getting sick and tired of reading post after post, written by expats or tourists or whatever, complaining and criticising the Thai police, the Thai traditions and the resident Thai citizens for behaving in a manner 'they' deem unaceptable. Sure, should that Thai erson/cop/politician person behave like that in the the foreigner's home country then they would be given a good flogging and sent to jail forever, BUT YOU ARE NOT IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY!!!! For gods sake, you are an expat living in a foreign country, get with the program and accept that things happen differently over here. That means differnt rules, different standards and different, well everything. If you can't come to terms with kids driving motorbikes and cops taking backhanders and all the rest of the stuff that goes on in Asia generally, then please bugger off back home and stop anoying the rest of us, who actually quite enjoy it over here.

Please, PLEASE, stop using this site and simlar to vent your phobias, missunderstandings and other culture shock related fears - we know it can be anoying sometimes, and yes, it is confusing and often frustrating, but it's still better than crappy weather, 34% income tax (my backet anyway) and 17.5% VAT.

Incidentally, I went out yesterday in Koh Phangan, on a motorbike, with my 1 year old son. The thais did not throw water in our faces, nobody crashed into us and I didn't get stabbed or shot of done by the police. However,some Thai people did respectfully splash water over us with my blessing (shock horror!!!).

The only people who did throw water in my face as I was driving (slowly and sobely) along were the pissed tourists hanging out of the girly bars in Baan Tai.

If you're getting sick... one solution my friend, stop reading the related posts

not everyone is an irresponsible fool who enjoys corruption and unlimited fun vs high taxes and cold weather... some of us happened to be here for a good reason and we enjoyed it and decided to stay here, make a life, inspired by asian and buddhist culture, thai people warmth and friendliness !

But please, stop thinking that only foreigners are complaining here, i am sure that parents of deceased kids during this holiday will surely know how to behave in the future, most of my thai friends, educated or not, know that Thai are bloody selfish and this creates a big gap in understanding and respecting each others, most Thai want to see things change, are sick of traffic, pollution, psychomaniac bus drivers, stupid high-so kids killing innocent people and get away with it... and yes, they want to celebrate songkran but are sick of drunk morons who just want to get a good one, get pissed till death and become total lunatics on the road !

This is THAI VISA, so yes only expats, foreigners of all sorts write their thought here, but go and survey in the streets of any province of Thailand, and you will have the same vision, Thai people are sick of Thai people today's behavior and egoistic attitude . Although you live in Koh Phan Gan, where the majority of locals just think of making as many bucks as possible out of sick farang who just happen to love living on an island with just sand and coconut trees ! There you might not find that type of responsible and tired Thai people

I wish your one y.o will grow up learning how to be a responsible driver

[Girlaboutglobe]

Fun is being banned on a daily basis even in Thailand which is sad... accidents occurs (everywhere, evry holidays) and it is very regettable ... but please if you want to live peacefully and are bored with fun times, fun people, fun living I am sure there are plenty of destinations that would suit your way of life.

I think very few people are advocating against fun, but drunk driving falls waaaaaay outside the realm of fun, acceptable or otherwise. Have you ever done it? I did once and it was scary as he11. First and last time I ever attempted it, and I wasn't all that drunk. Why was it scary? Because I was conscious of the fact that I might hurt someone, hurt myself, damage my car or someone else's, or be arrested and banned from driving on the spot. I'm alright with the water throwing, even on the streets if it's not too reckless, I'm okay with people drinking, dancing, and partying while they're hanging out in front of their houses playing with water. But when people are causing accidents and deaths by drinking and driving, and by dumping several kilos of water on unsuspecting motorcyclists it kinda stops being fun, don't you think?

Yes of course I agree on the drunk/driving scene which is getting obscene.... and many casualties resulting from it .... but please realise that we are slowly sliding into a policy (european/american style) where because one drown while not being able to swim we have to forbid the pool to the all / a metaphore of course ... but that's the way it is going ... and it is not fun

Yes I agree completely. Probably the main reason I enjoy living in Asia is that it IS fun, much of the West is overregulated to the point of being sterile and I wouldn't like to see Thailand become the same way. To be honest I don't think either culture's got it quite right, some sort of meeting in the middle would be the better for both. Who knows how far to the other extreme Thailand will end up? It'd be nice if they'd (continue to) improve regulations from this point but stop somewhere before the "age of lawsuit fears" that we have back home in Canada now, but I guess people anywhere just have to push for change until they're happy with what they've got. The point is to actually push though I think.