New Honda Accord Vs Bmw 330i 2003

[Digger]

The reality of the situation for BMW and some degree Mercedes is that they sell hardly any cars. However despite selling hardly any cars - they have HUGE advertising and marketing budgets. Just looking at that chart above of car sales January-March 2008 shows BMW selling some 400 odd vehicles. So 1600 a year as an average and my best guess is that marketing expenses are probably somewhere around 500,000b per vehicle sold. End result, your paying a huge premium just to pay for the advert on the side of that tower in central BKK, full page ads in BKK post etc etc. The issue about taxes is misleading - many of the components in BMW's ARE sourced in ASEAN, and the kit car taxes are such that BMW are making way more margin per car sold than almost any other market. Having said that, they have clearly learnt from Mercedes in that regard - BMW used to be approx: 20% cheaper than Benz here - now they are roughly on a par - so effectively BMW have lifted their margin by a considerable amount.

If you understand all this and are happy to pay the price for the badge, no drama - its what the likes of all premium brands tend to do here anyway (i.e if you can afford 3m for a car, you can afford 3.5m so put it up accordingly) - cost of manufacturing for someone like BMW is not that far removed from Honda, both are built here and its BMW's choice not to use 40% ASEAN sourced components however even taking that into account, still makes the pricing strategy totally aimed at the label buyer (and nothing wrong with that), but dont for a minute think your actually getting a 100% better vehicle by paying 100% more than comparable vehicle (and I speak as someone who has a German made and imported fully built up car so I have no axe to grind either way).

[dave_boo]

You are very fond of this "bling factor' business, and you can't seem to understand that some people might have a greater appreciation of good quality motors than you do, and enjoy driving them, just for the sheer pleasure of it.

Where do you get the idea that it's 'slapped together in Rayong". That seems to suggest that all Thai produced auto mobiles are "slapped together". If I know anything about the Germans I would bet their assembly plant out-does the Japanese in quality control. You surely don't think they have a bunch of locals running things down there do you? (Incidentally, GM/Chevrolet also have their plant in Rayong - so is all their stuff 'slapped together' as well?

Enjoy your Darkside meals in your Sports rider - maybe you should trade it in for a Captiva that has been "slapped together" in Rayong

I too appreciate true quality and value but I also don't like getting hosed (except during Songkran). Maybe you will agree that there is often little relation between price and quality, and especially value.

When it comes to spending money, I guess the world just breaks down into two types of people...those that like to spend money on expensive items to make themselves feel better/important or fill some other emotional need (like the guy who gets a kick that Thai people (probably most of whom will never even own a car) stop to admire his BMW as they are walking to the bus stop...WHATEVER) and those who are not emotionally needy and don't have an urge to "flash their cash" for all to see. I have friends who buy Rolex watches and the latest N-series Nokia phones when they come out (and they don't even know how to use half the features). I mean, do people even know that Rolex makes MILLIONS of their watches PER YEAR and that they are machine made (not some old expert Swiss watchmaker assembling it by hand) and that the watch movements costs just a few dollars! If people have been persuaded that these watches are "exclusive" items worth US$ 5000+ fine. I am happy Roles, and all the other luxury goods makers of Europe , have perfected this con on the public as it keeps the Franc and Euro strong and my European stocks up For me, my few hundred dollar Seiko or Citizen keeps me on time for my appointments and I can call or message anyone I want on my B 3000 phone.

The primary reason to choose one car over another is better safety, reliability, and comfort. If, in your considered judgment, the BMW 320d (B 2.85M) is twice as safe, as reliable, and as comfortable as the mid-line Accord 2.4EL (B 1.5M) then you have made a wise purchase decision. With watches, any US$ 200-300 one will keep time as accurately (often better) than a US$ 30,000 Patek Philippe. Any money over the 300 is not to more accurately know the time (the purpose of buying one in the first place) but for flash or Bling factor. Same for cars, anything more expensive than a Camry or Accord is for flash.

I know we are "not back home" so such price comparisons are not really relevant to Thailand but they do give us some perspective. BMW does not sell a 3-series diesel in the USA but as a point of comparison, the MOST EXPENSIVE 3-series sedan is the 335xi (which, with the higher numerical designation, I would suspect is a higher spec model than a 320) is sold for about B 1.3M (about half). I don't know how this comparison would look in your UK market. At least for an American, even the locally assembled BMWs are rediciously expensive. This does not even consider that fact that one pays a super-premium in price for Thai assembly quality. I cannot point to any authoritative sources but my hunch would be that German assembled BMWs (as well as Japanese assembled Camrys and Accords) would score higher in quality than their Thai equilivents.

Even the Thai made Accord 2.4EL at B 1.5M is expensive (and it doesn't even have a heater). This is for a high-spec 4 cylinder model that in the US would cost about B 800K (again about half). The top spec Thai Accord V6 is a whopping B 2.9M (imported I guess and large engine taxes) and in the US it sells for B 930K or 1/3rd the price!

FWIW, the "35" designates a twin turbo 3.0L. The X designates an AWD. I'm not sure which Thai offered model you compared that to, but it is much more of a car than the 320 you can get in Thailand for a much cheaper price.

[jonniebkk]

BMW does not sell a 3-series diesel in the USA but as a point of comparison, the MOST EXPENSIVE 3-series sedan is the 335xi (which, with the higher numerical designation, I would suspect is a higher spec model than a 320) is sold for about B 1.3M (about half).

FWIW, the "35" designates a twin turbo 3.0L. The X designates an AWD. I'm not sure which Thai offered model you compared that to, but it is much more of a car than the 320 you can get in Thailand for a much cheaper price.

There was no equivalent model in the States to the 320d, so for comparison, I used the most expensive model 3-series sedan, which is the 335xi.

The lowest numbered 3-series available in the US market is the 328i. The 328i sedan may be a better comparison to the Thai spec 320d. The American 328i specs are 3.0L 230 hp; I6; 0-60mph 5.6s. Another point: It is made in Germany ("Hans" is assembling it - not "Somchai." In any case, the 328i sells for B 960,000 (US$ 30,000) or 1/3 the B 2.85 price of the Thai 320d.

Maybe I should repatriate myself back to America...forgot how cheap some things can be...I like your explaining I can get a twin-turbo AWD Bimmer for US$ 40K...took mak mak...naah

Edited May 1, 2008 by jonniebkk

[Mobi]

I have found a good forum for BMW fanatics, bimmerforums.c o m.

Pretty impressive for finding out about anything you need to know, although it does not really help much if you are in LOS, but it's cool to see some of the rides.

Welcome to the club Mobi, hope to show you what I have done to mine tomorrow.

And very nice it was too

I will add the sports kit and wheels after delivery, as it is clearly cheaper to do that than to order it from BMW.

[Mobi]

OK Here we go.

I've been looking at the UK TOP Gear website which provides full details of all UK New car prices, plus accessories etc.

We all know that in the UK the BMW comes with virtually"nothing" - you even have to pay extra for items like air conditioning and armrests.

So the base price of a 320D in The Uk is 26,490, plus 595 delivery charge, brings it to 27,085.

I have gone through the entire list of 'extras', which have been listed and priced on the Top Gear site, and I have added up all those I can positively identify as being standard on the Thai version It comes to an additional cost of 4,920 pounds. I reiterate that these are the ones I can POSITIVELY identify, and there may be others which I am not aware that are also included in the Thai version.

So comparing like for like, if the UK 320D had the same specs as the Thai version it would cost 32,005 pounds. Depending on what rate you use, that is still over 2 million Baht, a difference of less than 800,000 Baht on the cost of the Thai version.

And If things are still the same as they were when I bought my BMW's in the UK in the 80's and 90's, you get virtually no discount on new models - and you usually have to wait at least 6 months for delivery.

This deal looks better and better.

Incidentally, Top Gear reckons its' a great motor

[taxexile]

The 320D is not on their website as it's only been out since March, and they haven't updated their site yet. This is a brand new model for Thailand, and it's selling like hot cakes.

the european 3 series (E-90) gets a facelift this summer , expect it in thailand in the not too distant future.

[Plus]

320d is an aberration in Thailand, if you forget it for a second we have regular 320 for 2.6 mil - 2l petrol engine, 150hp, 0-100 in 9.8 sec to quote from memory. Top version is 330 - 3l petrol inline 6 with 230hp that cost 3.9 million.

320d offers nearly the same performance as 330 but demands way way lower taxes so cost just a bit over the cheapest, entry level bimmer, that's why it's such a good deal, relatively speaking. Out of all other models it offers the smallest price difference between Thailand and UK or US.

>>>

I believe 400 in a quarter is BMW's best sales perfomance in years, and it's still very little comparing to the overall market.

[Mobi]

320d is an aberration in Thailand, if you forget it for a second we have regular 320 for 2.6 mil - 2l petrol engine, 150hp, 0-100 in 9.8 sec to quote from memory. Top version is 330 - 3l petrol inline 6 with 230hp that cost 3.9 million.

320d offers nearly the same performance as 330 but demands way way lower taxes so cost just a bit over the cheapest, entry level bimmer, that's why it's such a good deal, relatively speaking. Out of all other models it offers the smallest price difference between Thailand and UK or US.

>>>

I believe 400 in a quarter is BMW's best sales perfomance in years, and it's still very little comparing to the overall market.

HP/rpm 320D: 177/4000; 320i: 170/6000)

0-100kph 320D: 8 secs; 320i: 8.9 secs

Economy kpl 320D: 18.5; 320i: 15.4

Co2 emissions gm/km 320D 144; 320i: 156.

[AlexLah]

Jalla please post youre pictures.

[thedude]

i'm kind of late to this thread so firstly Mobi congrats on your decision and welcome to the bimmer club.

i have an E90 325i which i've been driving since 2006, its been over 2 years now and i am happy to report that i have had very few problems apart from an electrical problem last year which completely disabled the central locking system. the bmw agent gave me a replacement 5 series while they spent the better part of 1 week sorting it out, the problem with bimmers is everything is computerised and if you have an uncommon problem, they need to get a specialist down to the workshop to run diagnostics, which could take a while to sort out.

anyway, the car drives beautifully and the in-line 6 runs honey smooth, and its not just the responsiveness, its the whole balanced handling and chasis dynamics that makes the driving experience feel so 'together'. i still love driving the car after 27 months. build quality is good and there are no clangy bits. put it through a car spa and it comes out looking like new, not sure if a honda would hold up as well.

the only thing i am not too happy about is the ride which is quite stiff and the run flat tires are very hard, which can be quite jarring on bangkok's uneven roads. i've been thinking of trading up to a 5 series but the E60 is already towards the end of its model life so maybe i'll wait another year or 2 for the new 5. i'm a bit lost since my engine already puts out 218 hp, any more and pricing will move to the next tax bracket, but i cant imagine driving a 5 series thats less powerful than my present 3 series, so maybe i'll have to fork out quite a bit more for a 530 or 535 when the new model comes, its like a really expensive habbit.

anyway, let us know how your new car turns out, and drive carefully.

Edited May 17, 2008 by thedude

[Jalla]

Jalla please post youre pictures.

Of my car? Ok, here`s a couple..

Mobi, let me know if you need a chip for your new car. No ECU modifications, it only needs to be fitted between the original commonrail plug and the commonrail connector. Done in 5min. And you wil NOT void the warranty! PM if interested. Can also get for most other diesel cars.

I fitted one in mine, and it`s just like an extra turbo

[Mobi]

Jalla please post youre pictures.

Of my car? Ok, here`s a couple..

Mobi, let me know if you need a chip for your new car. No ECU modifications, it only needs to be fitted between the original commonrail plug and the commonrail connector. Done in 5min. And you wil NOT void the warranty! PM if interested. Can also get for most other diesel cars.

I fitted one in mine, and it`s just like an extra turbo

Sorry for being dim, but can you explain what a chip is, and what it does?

I'm interested, but need to know what it is.

Your car looks beautiful. Mine's not due till the end of June - can't wait

[ThaiPauly]

Jalla please post youre pictures.

Of my car? Ok, here`s a couple..

Mobi, let me know if you need a chip for your new car. No ECU modifications, it only needs to be fitted between the original commonrail plug and the commonrail connector. Done in 5min. And you wil NOT void the warranty! PM if interested. Can also get for most other diesel cars.

I fitted one in mine, and it`s just like an extra turbo

Are those AC Scnitzer Wheels?

They look great, I had the whole Schnitzer conevsion on mine, except I went for Hartge wheels. Would have looked a bit odd had I not replaced the Hartge emblem with a BM one though

[ThaiPauly]

i'm kind of late to this thread so firstly Mobi congrats on your decision and welcome to the bimmer club.

i have an E90 325i which i've been driving since 2006, its been over 2 years now and i am happy to report that i have had very few problems apart from an electrical problem last year which completely disabled the central locking system. the bmw agent gave me a replacement 5 series while they spent the better part of 1 week sorting it out, the problem with bimmers is everything is computerised and if you have an uncommon problem, they need to get a specialist down to the workshop to run diagnostics, which could take a while to sort out.

anyway, the car drives beautifully and the in-line 6 runs honey smooth, and its not just the responsiveness, its the whole balanced handling and chasis dynamics that makes the driving experience feel so 'together'. i still love driving the car after 27 months. build quality is good and there are no clangy bits. put it through a car spa and it comes out looking like new, not sure if a honda would hold up as well.

the only thing i am not too happy about is the ride which is quite stiff and the run flat tires are very hard, which can be quite jarring on bangkok's uneven roads. i've been thinking of trading up to a 5 series but the E60 is already towards the end of its model life so maybe i'll wait another year or 2 for the new 5. i'm a bit lost since my engine already puts out 218 hp, any more and pricing will move to the next tax bracket, but i cant imagine driving a 5 series thats less powerful than my present 3 series, so maybe i'll have to fork out quite a bit more for a 530 or 535 when the new model comes, its like a really expensive habbit.

anyway, let us know how your new car turns out, and drive carefully.

I have exactly the same model, but I have no complaints whatsoever except its a bit too techy for me to work all the computer bits and bobs and get my I Pod to play through the sytem

Really happy with the ride, far better than the 3 litre MB I had back in the UK

[Plus]

HP/rpm 320D: 177/4000; 320i: 170/6000)

0-100kph 320D: 8 secs; 320i: 8.9 secs

Economy kpl 320D: 18.5; 320i: 15.4

Co2 emissions gm/km 320D 144; 320i: 156.

That's a different 320i, Thai specs (from BMW website):

HP - 150, not 170

0-100 - 9.8 sec

Economy:

Urban 12.7 km/l

Extra-urban 5.6 km/l

Composite 7.9 km/l

http://www.bmw.co.th

[Mobi]

HP/rpm 320D: 177/4000; 320i: 170/6000)

0-100kph 320D: 8 secs; 320i: 8.9 secs

Economy kpl 320D: 18.5; 320i: 15.4

Co2 emissions gm/km 320D 144; 320i: 156.

That's a different 320i, Thai specs (from BMW website):

HP - 150, not 170

0-100 - 9.8 sec

Economy:

Urban 12.7 km/l

Extra-urban 5.6 km/l

Composite 7.9 km/l

http://www.bmw.co.th

It certainly seems to be. I got the specs from BBC's Top Gear website where they carried out a review of the 320's. So the 320i UK version is different. Strange that the specs are different.

I have now looked at the Thai specs for the 320D and see that the HP I quoted was correct (177), but the 0-100 is shown on the Thai model as 8 seconds (not 8.9), the composite fuel consumption of 16.6 is the same.

As a matter of interest, what prompted you to check?

[Plus]

The power output - local engine does only 150.

I looked at these specs long time ago when comparing 320i to Civic and when we were shopping for a car ourseves (we settled on Camry).

[Heng]

Mobi, i purchased a demo 520d just before christmas at Nelson Autohaus in Chonburi. Needless to say, i`m a very happy man

Jalla

Jalla,

Do you (or anyone else here) happen to know if Nelson's is a Thai owned or foreigner owned operation? Not an issue either way as they are an authorized dealer -surely meeting BMW's standards-, but just curious with the name.

[Mobi]

Mobi, i purchased a demo 520d just before christmas at Nelson Autohaus in Chonburi. Needless to say, i`m a very happy man

Jalla

Jalla,

Do you (or anyone else here) happen to know if Nelson's is a Thai owned or foreigner owned operation? Not an issue either way as they are an authorized dealer -surely meeting BMW's standards-, but just curious with the name.

I am buying my 320D from the same company. I can't say who owns them, but they are the authorised dealer for the whole of the Eastern Seaboard, and incidentally, are opening a branch in Pattaya next year, which will be very handy . They are also listed as an authorised dealer on the BMW Thailand website.

Interestingly, they gave a very charming and helpful American Sales Manager.- which seems to suggest they are foreign owned. He actually drove me all over Thonburi to track down a 320D with the sporty features so that I could decide if I wanted mine like that.

[rixalex]

He actually drove me all over Thonburi to track down a 320D with the sporty features so that I could decide if I wanted mine like that.

Must either be very service-minded, or he's making a bucket-load from your purchase. Perhaps both?

[Mobi]

He actually drove me all over Thonburi to track down a 320D with the sporty features so that I could decide if I wanted mine like that.

Must either be very service-minded, or he's making a bucket-load from your purchase. Perhaps both?

Both - I think is the answer. He is indeed very service orientated, and has been helpful in every possible way. I am sure he was also on a commission for the accessories he was trying to sell me.

In the end I declined, as it was a load of money for not very much - and in any case I can get it done later at considerable savings. But to his credit, after all the time he had spent, he was as charming as ever.

[Mobi]

I picked it up last Tuesday and it's been raining ever since. Below is a rare occasion when the car was clean. It bucketed down about five minutes after I took the pics.

It is a wonderful piece of machinery and I have no regrets.

It's absolutely packed with "bits and bobs and toys' and it will take me a year to get to know them all.

[dotcom]

The 4 year old 330i was selling for what price? Thanks

[Mobi]

The 4 year old 330i was selling for what price? Thanks

1.4 Million. Looks a nice motor - apparently the owner put it in the body shop to have all minor scratches sorted before he put it up for sale. One farang owner since new. That's why I was so tempted

[Lorin]

I picked it up last Tuesday and it's been raining ever since. Below is a rare occasion when the car was clean. It bucketed down about five minutes after I took the pics.

It is a wonderful piece of machinery and I have no regrets.

It's absolutely packed with "bits and bobs and toys' and it will take me a year to get to know them all.

Cool car, hoping to get one for myself soon as well. Have you done any modifications/additions?

[mouse]

When driving to Chiang Mai on a monthly basis I have a tendency to make the Honda and BMW owners cry, no matter how hard they try. Save yourself a lot of money, buy a Mazda3 (150hp stock) make a few mods and few will touch you in Thailand

[Mobi]

With the possible exception of a 328i convertible I used to own in the UK, this is one of the best cars I have ever driven.

I have no idea whether a Mazda3 would overtake me, but so far nothing has come even close. I cruise down the outside lane at a whisper-quiet 180kms/hr and it is truly a pleasure to drive. The brakes are magic.

If you have Bangkok plates and darkened windows, everyone gets out of you way as they think you are someone important. I drove with red plates for over 5 months, at night, upcountry, Bangkok, everywhere, and never got stopped once.

Pattaya to Suvarnabhumi: 45 Minutes. Pattaya to Bangkok, Sukhumvit, Soi 19: 65 Minutes.

There is a semi manual gear option (7 speeds) and it goes like shit in this mode. Very useful for getting ahead of slow moving "traffic clumps" and safely overtaking on the narrow roads of East Pattaya.

They tried to persuade me to put some factory built modifications on the body, but I think it looks beautiful the way it is, and it was one of the first to have the very latest styling, with great rims as standard.

I was contacted by a gentleman who offered to get a chip for my car, so I thought "Why Not?" I met him in Pattaya and it was duly installed. This was just after I took delivery, so I can't say how much the performance has been improved by the chip, but it sure goes well now.

I suppose you know there is a 3 year unlimited warranty (except for tyres and battery), and BMW will rescue you form any location in Thailand, should you break down. The run flat tyres are also a reassurance if you are driving up country.

I have never regretted forking out for this motor. It is one of my greatest pleasures.

But each to his own - it is all a matter of personal preference.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Mobi

[Heng]

That's nice that you love your Mazda. I wonder if you took say a million car owners and gave them a choice between a BMW 320d and Mazda 3, which they would choose. I'd bet that hundreds would choose the Mazda, who knows maybe you'd still be one of them. That's the beauty of personal preference (even in light of a much better automobile).

[Lorin]

With the possible exception of a 328i convertible I used to own in the UK, this is one of the best cars I have ever driven.

I have no idea whether a Mazda3 would overtake me, but so far nothing has come even close. I cruise down the outside lane at a whisper-quiet 180kms/hr and it is truly a pleasure to drive. The brakes are magic.

If you have Bangkok plates and darkened windows, everyone gets out of you way as they think you are someone important. I drove with red plates for over 5 months, at night, upcountry, Bangkok, everywhere, and never got stopped once.

Pattaya to Suvarnabhumi: 45 Minutes. Pattaya to Bangkok, Sukhumvit, Soi 19: 65 Minutes.

There is a semi manual gear option (7 speeds) and it goes like shit in this mode. Very useful for getting ahead of slow moving "traffic clumps" and safely overtaking on the narrow roads of East Pattaya.

They tried to persuade me to put some factory built modifications on the body, but I think it looks beautiful the way it is, and it was one of the first to have the very latest styling, with great rims as standard.

I was contacted by a gentleman who offered to get a chip for my car, so I thought "Why Not?" I met him in Pattaya and it was duly installed. This was just after I took delivery, so I can't say how much the performance has been improved by the chip, but it sure goes well now.

I suppose you know there is a 3 year unlimited warranty (except for tyres and battery), and BMW will rescue you form any location in Thailand, should you break down. The run flat tyres are also a reassurance if you are driving up country.

I have never regretted forking out for this motor. It is one of my greatest pleasures.

But each to his own - it is all a matter of personal preference.

Thanks for details, can I ask you if the motor is loud when its in neutral? I test drive 520D before and it was sounds like a a diesel Fortuner to me...

[Mobi]

Thanks for details, can I ask you if the motor is loud when its in neutral? I test drive 520D before and it was sounds like a a diesel Fortuner to me...

I used to own a diesel Fortuner, and IMO there is no comparison with the noise. It is really quiet.

Top Gear did a test drive of a 520D and Clarkson, who has always hated diesels, became an instant convert. They did a noise test and compared it to the BMW petrol equivalent, and found that the 520D was quieter.

These are diesels like you gave never experienced before, and are very economical, provided you don't drive like a maniac, but even then, it still does better than my 3 litre Fortuner diesel.

BTW the latest 3 series models are roomier than earlier versions, and I have had 3 'largish' adults in the back with minimal discomfort. But it's still compact enough to park in small spaces and get through busy, narrow sois. The ideal size for driving in Thailand.

Do a test drive and see what you think. Right now I reckon the salesmen will be falling over themselves to make a sale.