Aphids Or Other?

[Lickey]

We still have a severe problem on the farm with a diesease in the form of a white mealy bug, its now on the cucumber and makua/tomatoes, and even on some weeds, [which is not a bad thing] The following pics show it on a very young papaya plant, within 10 days all the top leaves will be gone and just a white encrusted stalk top remains, On close inspection, the pinhead sized white bug moves around the leaf, also, the 2 papaya plants and tomatoes in the back garden have sucumbed to this problem and we live 1 K from the farm, i see many other self-sown papaya in the village have the same problem, we have tried about 6 different sprays as a detterent but nothing so far has worked.

3 weeks ago, 4 rai of 10month old papaya was plouged in and cassava planted, it truly broke my heart to watch this as we had great expectations of making some good money, so if any of you recognize this bug/whatever, and can recomend a spray to stop the infection, would greatly appreciate your help, Thanks, Lickey.

PS, just want to say that normally with aphids, if you shake the plant, you get a crowd of small white flies, this dosent happen in my case, Thanks,,

[ozzydom]

We still have a severe problem on the farm with a diesease in the form of a white mealy bug, its now on the cucumber and makua/tomatoes, and even on some weeds, [which is not a bad thing] The following pics show it on a very young papaya plant, within 10 days all the top leaves will be gone and just a white encrusted stalk top remains, On close inspection, the pinhead sized white bug moves around the leaf, also, the 2 papaya plants and tomatoes in the back garden have sucumbed to this problem and we live 1 K from the farm, i see many other self-sown papaya in the village have the same problem, we have tried about 6 different sprays as a detterent but nothing so far has worked.

3 weeks ago, 4 rai of 10month old papaya was plouged in and cassava planted, it truly broke my heart to watch this as we had great expectations of making some good money, so if any of you recognize this bug/whatever, and can recomend a spray to stop the infection, would greatly appreciate your help, Thanks, Lickey.

PS, just want to say that normally with aphids, if you shake the plant, you get a crowd of small white flies, this dosent happen in my case, Thanks,,

Lickey, from the photo ,it looks like you have a white fly infestation.here is a text worth reading.

www.bugspray.com/article/whiteflies.html -

[sbk]

Doesn't Neem work quite well on this?

[wolf5370]

Not sure how much of an 'old wives tale' this is, but I've been told that watering with soapy water morning and everning for a week or so works well - the pl;ants take it up and the bugs don't like it - cheap to try (maybe on one plant?)

[sbk]

Haven't heard that one, but I have heard spraying the plant with soapy water will wash the bugs off.

[stiggy]

Had the same,

these eat everything destroyed two trees and 4 mth old papaya was gone in a day.

In the end I tried the soapy water im not sure if it worked or they just run there natural cycle and cleared off.

The strange thing now is they are still on the land but only in small clusters.

[ozzydom]

I personally found White Oil to do the best job, especially the white oil with insecticide as it works on them at various stages of their cycle.

Over the years I have tried the soapy water ,the garlic water etc with limited success ,and nowadays I tend to think its a bit of a nonsense messing with these potions while the pests destroy all your hard work. It takes quite a while for plants to recover from attacks by sap sucking species ,if at all they do survive.

GO FOR THE JUGULAR.

[Somtham]

I personally found White Oil to do the best job, especially the white oil with insecticide as it works on them at various stages of their cycle.

Over the years I have tried the soapy water ,the garlic water etc with limited success ,and nowadays I tend to think its a bit of a nonsense messing with these potions while the pests destroy all your hard work. It takes quite a while for plants to recover from attacks by sap sucking species ,if at all they do survive.

GO FOR THE JUGULAR.

The soapy water works very well for aphids but Lickey's photos are not aphids. We have a large infestation of the white flies on our chile plants so this white oil sounds interesting.

Dom - can you translate "white oil" into Americanese. I think you guys call kerosene parafin which we call wax!! Is white oil diesel fuel?

thanks

[ozzydom]

I personally found White Oil to do the best job, especially the white oil with insecticide as it works on them at various stages of their cycle.

Over the years I have tried the soapy water ,the garlic water etc with limited success ,and nowadays I tend to think its a bit of a nonsense messing with these potions while the pests destroy all your hard work. It takes quite a while for plants to recover from attacks by sap sucking species ,if at all they do survive.

GO FOR THE JUGULAR.

The soapy water works very well for aphids but Lickey's photos are not aphids. We have a large infestation of the white flies on our chile plants so this white oil sounds interesting.

Dom - can you translate "white oil" into Americanese. I think you guys call kerosene parafin which we call wax!! Is white oil diesel fuel?

thanks

www.yates.com.au/products/PestControl/InsectsConcentrates/WhiteOilInsecticide.asp

[Somtham]

www.yates.com.au/products/PestControl/InsectsConcentrates/WhiteOilInsecticide.asp

Thanks. Here's a home made recipe that looks useful. http://fcbs.org/articles/canola.htm

rgds

[ozzydom]

www.yates.com.au/products/PestControl/InsectsConcentrates/WhiteOilInsecticide.asp

Thanks. Here's a home made recipe that looks useful. http://fcbs.org/articles/canola.htm

rgds

Any vegetable oil can be used to make these brews,but they have a problem in the climate here and that is the fact that they dont mix with water like white oil does and consequently the foliage gets a coating of virtually straight veg oil and a couple of hours sun and Yikes your plant s will look like you hit them with a flame thrower.

These brews are useful in a cool to temperate climate or on plants in a shade house but in full sun the cure is worse than the problem.

[Somtham]

Any vegetable oil can be used to make these brews,but they have a problem in the climate here and that is the fact that they dont mix with water like white oil does and consequently the foliage gets a coating of virtually straight veg oil and a couple of hours sun and Yikes your plant s will look like you hit them with a flame thrower.

These brews are useful in a cool to temperate climate or on plants in a shade house but in full sun the cure is worse than the problem.

Good advice. Is this "Yates White Oil" available in Thailand? If not, what name brand do you buy here? Also the Yates might have it's own flame thrower results if you apply it at the wrong time/temp. From their web site:

Precautions

Do not spray when temperatures are near 35oC or above. Not sure how many degrees "near" is!

rgds

[ozzydom]

Any vegetable oil can be used to make these brews,but they have a problem in the climate here and that is the fact that they dont mix with water like white oil does and consequently the foliage gets a coating of virtually straight veg oil and a couple of hours sun and Yikes your plant s will look like you hit them with a flame thrower.

These brews are useful in a cool to temperate climate or on plants in a shade house but in full sun the cure is worse than the problem.

Good advice. Is this "Yates White Oil" available in Thailand? If not, what name brand do you buy here? Also the Yates might have it's own flame thrower results if you apply it at the wrong time/temp. From their web site:

Precautions

Do not spray when temperatures are near 35oC or above. Not sure how many degrees "near" is!

rgds

Good white oil like Yates ,Shell etc are water soluble its a bit like the water soluble oil used on cutting tools in engineering.

I have seen Yates here ,there are also chinese brands available, am going to Udon on Monday so will look in the bigger garden centres and see what they have.

White oil seem,s to go on in a lot thinner film than the veggie oil brews ,I think because the veggie oil does not atomise as well.

[Lickey]

Lathe cutting oil, that brings back some memories, i can still smell it today!! Do you good people think that if i could get a 5ltrs of this, added a bit of parrafin [which contains sulphur] mixed in measured quanties and sprayed the plants from my backpack would do the trick?

Another idea you have given me is a petroluem based water souluable hand cleaner, and as ozzy sugested, add some insecticide, and spray,

Another quick question, has anyone seen this whitefly on Tamarind trees,banana plants, orange trees, mango, kanoon,lychee,lamyai trees,cassava,rubber trees,chilli plants, If so, ive got 40rai to spray a bit quick

Thanks all,

[meandwi]

We still have a severe problem on the farm with a diesease in the form of a white mealy bug, its now on the cucumber and makua/tomatoes, and even on some weeds, [which is not a bad thing] The following pics show it on a very young papaya plant, within 10 days all the top leaves will be gone and just a white encrusted stalk top remains, On close inspection, the pinhead sized white bug moves around the leaf, also, the 2 papaya plants and tomatoes in the back garden have sucumbed to this problem and we live 1 K from the farm, i see many other self-sown papaya in the village have the same problem, we have tried about 6 different sprays as a detterent but nothing so far has worked.

3 weeks ago, 4 rai of 10month old papaya was plouged in and cassava planted, it truly broke my heart to watch this as we had great expectations of making some good money, so if any of you recognize this bug/whatever, and can recomend a spray to stop the infection, would greatly appreciate your help, Thanks, Lickey.

PS, just want to say that normally with aphids, if you shake the plant, you get a crowd of small white flies, this dosent happen in my case, Thanks,,

It is mealy bug, I would spray the leaves with a hose to wash them off. It is the easiest and safest way. If you do spray with an insecticide, do so very early to allow to dry before the sun is high.

Hope this was helpful,

meandwi

Edited April 26, 2008 by meandwi

[ozzydom]

Lathe cutting oil, that brings back some memories, i can still smell it today!! Do you good people think that if i could get a 5ltrs of this, added a bit of parrafin [which contains sulphur] mixed in measured quanties and sprayed the plants from my backpack would do the trick?

Another idea you have given me is a petroluem based water souluable hand cleaner, and as ozzy sugested, add some insecticide, and spray,

Another quick question, has anyone seen this whitefly on Tamarind trees,banana plants, orange trees, mango, kanoon,lychee,lamyai trees,cassava,rubber trees,chilli plants, If so, ive got 40rai to spray a bit quick

Thanks all,

Sounds like its worth a try Lickey, White fly seem to have a preference for broadleaf plants like pumpkin,papaya etc although I have had them on tomato and chilli.

[Somtham]

Another quick question, has anyone seen this whitefly on Tamarind trees,banana plants, orange trees, mango, kanoon,lychee,lamyai trees,cassava,rubber trees,chilli plants, If so, ive got 40rai to spray a bit quick

Thanks all,

Went out and had a look and we have them on some of the chiles and long bean plants. At first thought it was mites but a closer look shows them to be white flies.

rgds

[ozzydom]

Somtham, Looking at your photo,s with my failing eyes,they dont look like the normal white fly (although there are quite a few varieties) ,they usually like to stay on the underside of the leaf where the veins are more accessible and the usually dont feed on the stems as they cant pierce the thicker skin as an aphid can.

They actually look more like some type of mite,but whatever they are you have them really bad. Seeing they are on veggies I think I would be into them with pyrethum poste haste.

If the pyrethum works ,well and good but you might have to go for a big gun like a Malathon based insecticide

[Lickey]

Meandwi, Hose/water washing is a good idea, the farm irrigation is set up with a borehole and a holding tank then a booster pump, Perhaps by putting some white oil and insecticide in the tank then washing the plants would halt or slow down the spread, For sure with this method with an adjustable spray nozzle on the end of 1 inch pipe, no part of the plants would be untouched,its also got to be easier than a pump-up back pack sprayer!! Meandwi, thanks for activating my old brain!!!!

Somtham, the problem we have with the bugs/whiteflys dont leave anykind of cobweb like in your pics, although the first pic shows a stalk top emancipated, thats exacatly what our papaya plants looked like, so perhaps its another strain like ozzy said,

Ozzy, last weeks 4 hour storm wreaked havoc with the salad gardens, blew down and broke poles ect, when repairing and cleaning away weeds ect, i see on the spear grass [weed] this white bug, specially at a place where new shoots form, so perhaps this isnt just a bug for broad leaf plants, I did look at the tamarind and some of the 1500 banana today and they seem ok,

Thanks all, lickey..

[Somtham]

Somtham, Looking at your photo,s with my failing eyes,they dont look like the normal white fly (although there are quite a few varieties) ,they usually like to stay on the underside of the leaf where the veins are more accessible and the usually dont feed on the stems as they cant pierce the thicker skin as an aphid can.

They actually look more like some type of mite,but whatever they are you have them really bad. Seeing they are on veggies I think I would be into them with pyrethum poste haste.

If the pyrethum works ,well and good but you might have to go for a big gun like a Malathon based insecticide

The plant on the left in the first photo is the chile and they have wiped out the entire plant. Nothing left but the stalk. The leaf on the right of the first photo is the underside of a bean leaf and the right photo is a close up showing the white fly in the center maybe with mites(?) all around the fly. Not sure.

We sprayed the beans yesterday with soap as there are also aphids showing up. Will check in a couple of days and see if the flies are still active.

rgds

rgds

[ozzydom]

Somtham, Looking at your photo,s with my failing eyes,they dont look like the normal white fly (although there are quite a few varieties) ,they usually like to stay on the underside of the leaf where the veins are more accessible and the usually dont feed on the stems as they cant pierce the thicker skin as an aphid can.

They actually look more like some type of mite,but whatever they are you have them really bad. Seeing they are on veggies I think I would be into them with pyrethum poste haste.

If the pyrethum works ,well and good but you might have to go for a big gun like a Malathon based insecticide

The plant on the left in the first photo is the chile and they have wiped out the entire plant. Nothing left but the stalk. The leaf on the right of the first photo is the underside of a bean leaf and the right photo is a close up showing the white fly in the center maybe with mites(?) all around the fly. Not sure.

We sprayed the beans yesterday with soap as there are also aphids showing up. Will check in a couple of days and see if the flies are still active.

rgds

rgds

Alex, the male of the mealy bug is winged, its a strange critter as its only function is to breed ,it does not feed ,just hatches ,breeds then dies.

{{quote}

MEALY BUG

Pseudococcidae

They will attack a wide variety of plants; trees, shrubs, fruit trees, ornamentals, cacti and succulents, indoor plants and ferns.

IDENTIFICATION

These are soft, plump, insects which are closely related to scale.

They exude a dense covering of waxy filaments which acts as a protective

device and repels water. These pests collect in colonies and suck the sap out of soft young plant stems, leaves, shoots and flower buds. Mealy bug prefer to feed under cover, congregating in leaf axils, leaf sheaths and on the underside of the leaves.

Mealy bug feed by withdrawing the sap from the plants, and excreting

a liquid sweet sugary substance called honeydew. This substance attracts the ants which feed off it.

(See chewing pests for information on ants)

Ants will attend the colonies protecting them and even relocate them on untouched new shoots. Ants will drive away and destroy parasites which attack the Mealy bug.

Honeydew also provides an excellent substrate for the growth and development of sooty mould. This unsightly black fungus covers the branches and leaves, preventing sunlight from reaching the leaf surface.

SYMPTOMS

Mealy bug attack a wide range of plants :- Ferns, Gardenias, Indoor Plants, Orchids, Palms etc. With increase in population the plants become distorted and slowly begin to die.

CONTROL

Remove dead leaves and small branches where Mealy bug have collected.

Spray infested areas with a systemic insecticide, such as SYSTEX or Folimat.

MEALY BUG IN THE GROUND

Spraying the plants with a 'systemic chemical' the same way you would for leaf Mealy bug, will have the same controlling effect. As these pests sucked the sap from the roots they consume the poison the same way.

You must note that Mealy bug is one of the HARDEST pests to eradicate, and it may take quite a while before you get the upper hand.

dom

[appleman]

You seem to have an infestation of, what the Thais call “เพลี้ยแป้ง” (phlia bpang) or in the English translation, powder aphid. These may be a type of “wooly aphids” (http://bugguide.net/node/view/7465/bgimage). These guys are everywhere. We have them on all our papaya leaves and many other plants as well. They are in our vegetable garden and on ornamental plants too. They are virtually impossible to get rid of and the best you can hope for is to control them. If you want to use chemical poisons then ask your garden supply guy what would be best to control phlia bpang. Natural controls might be better for the environment but I am not sure how well they will control your problem. We scrap them off the leaves or break off the infested leaves and I make sure not to add them to our compost pile. So far we have ben able to live with them without them doing too much damage. Good luck.

[rch1023]

In the absence of the appropriate insecticide, I was long ago advised to use washing-up liquid, not soap. Basically you get an empty, or nearly empty, bottle; half fill it with luke-warm water; shake well, and spray. It's a detergent, not a soap, and cuts through the waxy filaments to get at the beast beneath. It then is not good for their breathing, and so cuts down the numbers.

It's not an absolute solution, but you can use it in an emergency.

I keep having to go over our hibiscus: they swarm with the beasts.

Regards

[appleman]

I just took a magnifying glass to our papaya leaves, which look exactly like yours, and with some pictures from the internet found that we definitely have mealybugs. Therfore, phlia bpang, the Thai word for what you have, are mealybugs. And my wife, who is the real gardener, says "you're toast". Sorry.

[ozzydom]

Because mealies coat themselves in an oily "overcoat " they are hard to get at with contact insecticides so the best trick is to get them from the other front which is through their food supply by using systemic insecticides.

[Lickey]

Thanks for all your input folks, my plan is to source some white oil and an adjustable spray gun that will jet or atomize the mixture, fix this to a 1nch pipe from the 2inch main irrigation pipeline and 'wash' and spray all plants on the farm, perhaps the high-pressure jet will break off some leafs and flowers and fruit, also as ozzies post suggests, the 700 papaya interplanted with banana are full of red fire ants, after the excretions of honeydew made by the mealy bug, perhaps this spray will knock them for 6 also, specially if i add some insectide, the overspray will go on the ground and other plants hopefully making life difficult for the bugs to re-group, and then a systemic insecticide to choke them if they return,

Ive got a lot to loose and nothing to gain if i dont try this,

Rgds, Lickey..

[Lickey]

Got the bits i needed in Udon, went to the farm late today to try out the adjustable [pencil jet or spray] gun , piped it up to the main supply and hey presto, it washes off the mealy bugs from under the leaves of the papaya, Next step is after ive checked and cleaned as ness the 700 plants will be to spray them with the white oil, ok, so its an oil used in metal cutting on lathes ect, its water souluable and petroleum based and i would think harmless to plants? but it certainly wont taste nice to a mealy bug or a fire ant,

Oh yes, i would like to thank the thai labour who sprayed weedkiller in the cassava and young banana monday, they take the water from an outlet on the borehole pipe, but when they do this, to turn off the booster pump,because it will start automatically when the holding tank is full, they never, and with the water nowhere to go it burnt out the pump, [3 months old] 3100bht gone!! thanks again!!!

To carry out my test today, i repiped the borehole to the main farm suply, the jet wasnt special but it worked,

Weve yet to show any kind of profit from the farm this year, it seems to be one setback after another, its on a hillside, 40rai, with good views of the mountain ranges all around namsom, im thinking of turning it into a resort, would you??

[rice555]

Hello Lickey, 2 questions, 1. were you growing Red Ladys? 2. what size seed packs were you buying?

Want some info on bananas? 37 pages of them in this months issue.

rice555

[Lickey]

Hi Rice, the mrs got the papaya plants up near the Mekong last year, i did ask her at the time were they virus resistant, or a GM type ect, she had no idea, the 700 odd plants remaining are inter-cropped with bananas, but production is slow, i think mainly they are fighting for sunlight and putting more energy into growing rather than producing, they are near a year old now and some are 4 mtrs tall,

I searched Red Lady papayas and they really look good, would be nice to find a seed supplier in Thailand,

The magazine looks good, but i cant read Thai, [is it in english?] what ive done with some banana plants is take off new culms, leaving the mother, the next best and a baby coming through, just to see if this improves development rates,

By trade im a diesel engineer, and the mrs has a very good salon for all kinds of beauty make up and therapy, shes done this for 24 years, she used to be a farm girl but local modern practicis are beyond both of us, so i learn a lot from posts on here and the internet, Oh Well, ill keep plugging on and hopefully get it right in the course of time, Cheers, lickey..

[kleinhev]

These are not white flies but mealy bugs. Commercially most important insecticide-substances against these are chlorpyriphos and imidacloprid. The true problem, however, are the ants which carry the "lazy" bugs into the canopy to feed on their excrements. If you take proper care of these (Big C sells a Japanese product (in small green plastic containers) which the ants carry to their "homes"), the mealy bugs have no chance. This wipes out the whole ant population for about 3 months.

We still have a severe problem on the farm with a diesease in the form of a white mealy bug, its now on the cucumber and makua/tomatoes, and even on some weeds, [which is not a bad thing] The following pics show it on a very young papaya plant, within 10 days all the top leaves will be gone and just a white encrusted stalk top remains, On close inspection, the pinhead sized white bug moves around the leaf, also, the 2 papaya plants and tomatoes in the back garden have sucumbed to this problem and we live 1 K from the farm, i see many other self-sown papaya in the village have the same problem, we have tried about 6 different sprays as a detterent but nothing so far has worked.

3 weeks ago, 4 rai of 10month old papaya was plouged in and cassava planted, it truly broke my heart to watch this as we had great expectations of making some good money, so if any of you recognize this bug/whatever, and can recomend a spray to stop the infection, would greatly appreciate your help, Thanks, Lickey.

PS, just want to say that normally with aphids, if you shake the plant, you get a crowd of small white flies, this dosent happen in my case, Thanks,,

Lickey, from the photo ,it looks like you have a white fly infestation.here is a text worth reading.

www.bugspray.com/article/whiteflies.html -